(03-27-2012 12:18 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  That's under 60% of capacity.

So when students gets D's at ECU, did they "basically" Ace the class?

Do I really need to start figuring out MAC members % of capacity filled? Pot calling the kettle black. By the way ours is filled so really who cares?

Attendance smack.

ECU has averaged 5.6 wins per season over the last 10 seasons.

(03-27-2012 12:22 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  Attendance smack.

ECU has averaged 5.6 wins per season over the last 10 seasons.

Kinda hard to argue with that. Won't deny our underperformance recently has really hurt us in realignment. The past 2 years winning 5 and 6 is acceptable considering we're doing a 180 with our offensive and defensive system. 2002 and 2003 KILLED us (arguably cost us a BE invite) with a coach that was in WAY over his head.

Bottom line is you are what your record says you are. Historically we're a 52 or 53% winning percentage program. I like the way you used facts in your post here. ECU shouldn't be dragged into a facilities or fanbase pi$$ing match though because we'll win every time compared to the MAC schools. That's part of the reason I'm so pi$$ed off about our on the field results. There's really no excuse for it all things considered.

Skip Holtz was a good coach that got us back on track but his teams were also masters of the choke job.

(03-27-2012 12:18 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  That's under 60% of capacity.

So when students gets D's at ECU, did they "basically" Ace the class?

even at that we still have a higher average attendance than the rest of the MAC...

(03-27-2012 12:22 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  Attendance smack.

ECU has averaged 5.6 wins per season over the last 10 seasons.

I'm going to be so glad when we get to where people can stop including the 2 JT years in smack like this. It's gift that keeps on giving. Sadly we had to have a 2 year Memphis level of suck to make the entire decade look bad for us.

I dunno if I would say 2002 and 2003 killed ECU. Memphis with superior basketball(and better football- '03 they went 8-4 '04 8-3 bball- 21-7 in 2004- made 2nd rd) didn't even get in then. So, if Memphis wasn't getting in at that point, would ECU have? Kind of doubtful.

Have to wonder if Skip Holtz had stayed and not gone to USF, would ECU have been stronger these last few years, and been more appealing?

(03-27-2012 12:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I dunno if I would say 2002 and 2003 killed ECU. Memphis with superior basketball(and better football- '03 they went 8-4 '04 8-3 bball- 21-7 in 2004- made 2nd rd) didn't even get in then. So, if Memphis wasn't getting in at that point, would ECU have? Kind of doubtful.

Have to wonder if Skip Holtz had stayed and not gone to USF, would ECU have been stronger these last few years, and been more appealing?

Well he never intended on being here longer than 5 years. If you look at the way he constructed our roster it was clear he had a 5 year plan to get the best job he could and move on. If he couldn't get a better job and been forced to stay I doubt he'd have produced any better records than Ruff did with the roster we had.

(03-27-2012 12:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I dunno if I would say 2002 and 2003 killed ECU. Memphis with superior basketball(and better football- '03 they went 8-4 '04 8-3 bball- 21-7 in 2004- made 2nd rd) didn't even get in then. So, if Memphis wasn't getting in at that point, would ECU have? Kind of doubtful.

Have to wonder if Skip Holtz had stayed and not gone to USF, would ECU have been stronger these last few years, and been more appealing?

I doubt it. We lost a ton between '09 and '10, particularly on defense. I would have hated to see what we would have been like with that defense and a Skip Holtz offense... (We lost more lettermen than any other school in the country entering 2010.) Going to a bowl game in Ruff's first year was quite an accomplishment.

(03-27-2012 11:41 AM)EERSFAN Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 11:17 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Tired of the Marshall and ECU fans grumble about travel and what they "deserve" and their acting that they are the lead dogs in non-aq conference world. Why in the world would any MAC team leave a 65 year old stable and growing conference for the indecisive mess that is the "Alliance"??

Marshall was a short-timer in the MAC that thought the grass was greener on the other side and then made a mistake.

How has CUSA helped Marshall? It hasn't at all. Their attendance is no better than their MAC days, their facilities have not improved and are worse than most MAC schools, their athletic budget hasn't improved, they struggle to win, and they are on TV much less. Their fans (and ECU's) routinely grumble about travel. Marshall screwed up but won't swallow their pride and admit it. Who is their main rival? A MAC school (OHIO)

And I'm getting tired of the unjustified arrogance of some ECU fans and their constant whining that they think they "deserve" a Big East invite and think they are the big fish left in the non-aq pond. Besides some otherwise impressive attendance numbers, what exactly has ECU done? You won two CUSA championships 4 years ago and beat Virginia Tech and a Big East champion and a few other BCS teams ever so often? Big deal! NIU, Toledo, Miami and others in the MAC have better resumes. Toledo beat Penn State and Michigan, NIU beat Alabama, Miami beat Virgiania Tech and the Rose Bowl bound Big Ten Champs. Has ECU ever finished in the Top 12 in the final AP Ranking? NIU and Miami have.

ECU and Marshall should come to terms and join the MAC East not the other way around. The MAC is weathering conference realignment quite nicely.

Old Dominion and JMU will make great additions in your absense.

Marshall does belong in the MAC. Anyone outside of Huntington, and even most of them, knows that. The Joan may hold 38K, but outside of WVU coming to town, it never does.

That's not quite true, EERSFAN...

Marshall was a MAC member from 1954-until 1969, when Marshall's athletic program was facing a number of scandals. Marshall fired all football and basketball coaches, but was suspended from the MAC - and NCAA.

The plane crash happened the following year, and it took Marshall 7 years to build the program up to where it was acceptable to the Southern Conference, which the Herd joined in 1977. As a 1AA program, Marshall built up a national power, and rejoined the MAC and 1A football after the 1997 season. But Marshall decided to leave the MAC for a better TV contract in CUSA in 2005. Sound familiar?

Marshall's problem was their move to CUSA coincided with the NCAA finding out Bob Pruett wasn't quite kosher with the rules, and they've never really challenged for the conference crown...

But Marshall is a MAC program at heart. Every MAC school is an easy drive, and all the campuses are about the same size. Their spending, stadiums, and everything else is comparable. To me, Marshall in the MAC makes perfect sense...

(03-27-2012 12:35 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 12:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I dunno if I would say 2002 and 2003 killed ECU. Memphis with superior basketball(and better football- '03 they went 8-4 '04 8-3 bball- 21-7 in 2004- made 2nd rd) didn't even get in then. So, if Memphis wasn't getting in at that point, would ECU have? Kind of doubtful.

Have to wonder if Skip Holtz had stayed and not gone to USF, would ECU have been stronger these last few years, and been more appealing?

I doubt it. We lost a ton between '09 and '10, particularly on defense. I would have hated to see what we would have been like with that defense and a Skip Holtz offense... (We lost more lettermen than any other school in the country entering 2010.) Going to a bowl game in Ruff's first year was quite an accomplishment.

Gotcha. Wasn't Ruffin's 1st game the game with the Hail Mary vs Tulsa???

Seems like Ruffin is a good coach. Loved how he was able to handle the situation at TT back a few years ago in the Alamo Bowl after Leach got fired....

(03-27-2012 12:31 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 12:22 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  Attendance smack.

ECU has averaged 5.6 wins per season over the last 10 seasons.

I'm going to be so glad when we get to where people can stop including the 2 JT years in smack like this. It's gift that keeps on giving. Sadly we had to have a 2 year Memphis level of suck to make the entire decade look bad for us.

Replace the two JT years with the two years prior to his arrival and you're at 6.3 wins over the 10 years selected.

(03-27-2012 12:35 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 12:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I dunno if I would say 2002 and 2003 killed ECU. Memphis with superior basketball(and better football- '03 they went 8-4 '04 8-3 bball- 21-7 in 2004- made 2nd rd) didn't even get in then. So, if Memphis wasn't getting in at that point, would ECU have? Kind of doubtful.

Have to wonder if Skip Holtz had stayed and not gone to USF, would ECU have been stronger these last few years, and been more appealing?

I doubt it. We lost a ton between '09 and '10, particularly on defense. I would have hated to see what we would have been like with that defense and a Skip Holtz offense... (We lost more lettermen than any other school in the country entering 2010.) Going to a bowl game in Ruff's first year was quite an accomplishment.

Yeah that roster Skip left us with wasn't going to do much better than 6-7 whether he was coaching it or Ruff. Skip likely would have had real trouble because under him we had to play really good defense and win games in the 20's, and that team didn't have the roster to hold anyone but Memphis and Marshall to that level, and was probably the least talented defense I have ever seen on any college team.

(03-27-2012 12:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 12:35 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 12:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I dunno if I would say 2002 and 2003 killed ECU. Memphis with superior basketball(and better football- '03 they went 8-4 '04 8-3 bball- 21-7 in 2004- made 2nd rd) didn't even get in then. So, if Memphis wasn't getting in at that point, would ECU have? Kind of doubtful.

Have to wonder if Skip Holtz had stayed and not gone to USF, would ECU have been stronger these last few years, and been more appealing?

I doubt it. We lost a ton between '09 and '10, particularly on defense. I would have hated to see what we would have been like with that defense and a Skip Holtz offense... (We lost more lettermen than any other school in the country entering 2010.) Going to a bowl game in Ruff's first year was quite an accomplishment.

Gotcha. Wasn't Ruffin's 1st game the game with the Hail Mary vs Tulsa???

Seems like Ruffin is a good coach. Loved how he was able to handle the situation at TT back a few years ago in the Alamo Bowl after Leach got fired....

Yeah that was Ruff's first game.

Huge year for Ruffin coming up- that 3rd year always is the huge one.. got a lot of your guys. The thing I wonder is the schedule..... South Carolina, Southern Miss, UNC back to back to back? That's a pretty tough stretch there- followed by scary games with UTEP and UCF.

(03-27-2012 12:50 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Huge year for Ruffin coming up- that 3rd year always is the huge one.. got a lot of your guys. The thing I wonder is the schedule..... South Carolina, Southern Miss, UNC back to back to back? That's a pretty tough stretch there- followed by scary games with UTEP and UCF.

Yeah, those three road games will be tough, but I think we will have our best defense since 2009 and a QB that actually fits the system. I really want to beat UNC this year...

I've got a strange feeling that Ruff has a free pass this coming year. We'll see what he does when UCF, Houston and SMU are gone and that's probably when his grading gets done.

As for this year...USC East and UNC will be very hard games. Not thinking USM will be so much. UTEP has never been a scary game when played in Greenville.

I don't think anyone in a 3rd year gets a free pass just about. Conference schedule as favorable as possible just about with UTEP, Tulane, and Houston rebuilding as the out of division games.

(03-27-2012 12:40 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 11:41 AM)EERSFAN Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 11:17 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Tired of the Marshall and ECU fans grumble about travel and what they "deserve" and their acting that they are the lead dogs in non-aq conference world. Why in the world would any MAC team leave a 65 year old stable and growing conference for the indecisive mess that is the "Alliance"??

Marshall was a short-timer in the MAC that thought the grass was greener on the other side and then made a mistake.

How has CUSA helped Marshall? It hasn't at all. Their attendance is no better than their MAC days, their facilities have not improved and are worse than most MAC schools, their athletic budget hasn't improved, they struggle to win, and they are on TV much less. Their fans (and ECU's) routinely grumble about travel. Marshall screwed up but won't swallow their pride and admit it. Who is their main rival? A MAC school (OHIO)

And I'm getting tired of the unjustified arrogance of some ECU fans and their constant whining that they think they "deserve" a Big East invite and think they are the big fish left in the non-aq pond. Besides some otherwise impressive attendance numbers, what exactly has ECU done? You won two CUSA championships 4 years ago and beat Virginia Tech and a Big East champion and a few other BCS teams ever so often? Big deal! NIU, Toledo, Miami and others in the MAC have better resumes. Toledo beat Penn State and Michigan, NIU beat Alabama, Miami beat Virgiania Tech and the Rose Bowl bound Big Ten Champs. Has ECU ever finished in the Top 12 in the final AP Ranking? NIU and Miami have.

ECU and Marshall should come to terms and join the MAC East not the other way around. The MAC is weathering conference realignment quite nicely.

Old Dominion and JMU will make great additions in your absense.

Marshall does belong in the MAC. Anyone outside of Huntington, and even most of them, knows that. The Joan may hold 38K, but outside of WVU coming to town, it never does.

That's not quite true, EERSFAN...

Marshall was a MAC member from 1954-until 1969, when Marshall's athletic program was facing a number of scandals. Marshall fired all football and basketball coaches, but was suspended from the MAC - and NCAA.

The plane crash happened the following year, and it took Marshall 7 years to build the program up to where it was acceptable to the Southern Conference, which the Herd joined in 1977. As a 1AA program, Marshall built up a national power, and rejoined the MAC and 1A football after the 1997 season. But Marshall decided to leave the MAC for a better TV contract in CUSA in 2005. Sound familiar?

Marshall's problem was their move to CUSA coincided with the NCAA finding out Bob Pruett wasn't quite kosher with the rules, and they've never really challenged for the conference crown...

But Marshall is a MAC program at heart. Every MAC school is an easy drive, and all the campuses are about the same size. Their spending, stadiums, and everything else is comparable. To me, Marshall in the MAC makes perfect sense...

I'm well-versed in the Herd's history and that's why I posted exactly the same conclusion you did. Thanks for providing the details.

(03-27-2012 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think anyone in a 3rd year gets a free pass just about. Conference schedule as favorable as possible just about with UTEP, Tulane, and Houston rebuilding as the out of division games.

Yeah the thought he is getting a free pass is silly. While there are reasons he had 2 straight losing seasons if he manages a third with probably the easiest schedule we have played in 20 years that's going to be a massive failure. This is the first time in as long as I can remember we have played less than 3 AQ teams. 7 wins is a flat out minimum with the roster we are returning.

(03-27-2012 01:08 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think anyone in a 3rd year gets a free pass just about. Conference schedule as favorable as possible just about with UTEP, Tulane, and Houston rebuilding as the out of division games.

Yeah the thought he is getting a free pass is silly. While there are reasons he had 2 straight losing seasons if he manages a third with probably the easiest schedule we have played in 20 years that's going to be a massive failure. This is the first time in as long as I can remember we have played less than 3 AQ teams. 7 wins is a flat out minimum with the roster we are returning.

Might have a little more to do with finding a new coach in a league that is undoubtably less glamorous (relative) than before. The conference schedule in 2013 will be what we will endure going forward. Not what we see in 2012, no matter how easy one might think it is with road trips to USM and UCF. JMO.