(03-27-2012 01:01 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I have no dog in the fight but having been born in California and from someone who follows west coast and southern football I think you guys would be making a HUGE mistake in taking AF over Fresno. Sure Air Force has a nice national following and can at least be a 6-6 team most years but Air Force is probably never going to play in a BCS bowl.

Really, just 6-6? Not sure I see any glaring differences here

Air Force Academy
1981 4–7 2–3 (WAC)
1982
8–5 4–3 (WAC) Hall of Fame vs. Vanderbilt, W, 36–28

1983
10–2 5–2 (WAC) Independence vs. Mississippi, W, 9–3

1984
8–4 4–3 (WAC) Independence vs. Virginia Tech, W, 23–7

1985
12–1 7–1 (WAC) Bluebonnet vs. Texas, W. 24–16

1986
6–5 5–2 (WAC)
1987
9–4 6–2 (WAC) Freedom vs. Arizona State, L, 28–33

1988
5–7 3–5 (WAC)
1989
8–4–1 5–1–1 (WAC) Liberty vs. Mississippi, L, 29–42

1990
7–5 3–4 (WAC) Liberty vs. Ohio State, W, 23–11

1991
10–3 6–2 (WAC) Liberty vs. Mississippi State, W, 38–15

1992
7–5 4–4 (WAC) Liberty vs. Mississippi, L, 0–13

1993
4–8 1–7 (WAC)
1994
8–4 6–2 (WAC)
1995
8–5 6–2 (WAC) Copper vs. Texas Tech, L, 41–55

1996
6–5 5–3 (WAC)
1997
10–3 6–2 (WAC) Las Vegas vs. Oregon, L, 13–41

1998
12–1 7–1 (WAC) O’ahu vs. Washington, W, 45–25

1999
6–5 2–5 (MWC)

2000
9–3 5–2 (MWC) Silicon Valley vs. Fresno State, W, 37–34

2001
6–6 3–4 (MWC)
2002
8–5 4–3 (MWC) San Francisco vs. Virginia Tech, L, 13–20

2003
7–5 3–4 (MWC)
2004
5–6 3–4 (MWC)
2005
4–7 3–5 (MWC)
2006
4–8 3–4 (MWC)
2007
9–4 6–2 (MWC) Armed Forces vs. California, L, 36–42

2008
8–5 5–3 (MWC) Armed Forces vs. Houston, L, 28–34

2009
8–5 5–3 (MWC) Armed Forces vs. Houston, W, 47–20

2010
9–4 5–3 (MWC) Independence Bowl vs. Georgia Tech, W, 14–7
2011
7–6 3–4 (MWC) Military Bowl vs. Toledo, L, 41-42




Fresno State
Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches# AP
1980
Fresno State 5–6 1–4
1981
Fresno State 5–6 2–3
1982
Fresno State 11–1 6–0 1st W California

1983
Fresno State 6–5 2–4
1984
Fresno State 6–6 3–4
1985
Fresno State 11–0–1 7–0 1st W California
16
1986
Fresno State 9–2 6–1
1987
Fresno State 6–5 4–3
1988
Fresno State 10–2 7–0 1st W California

1989
Fresno State 11–1 7–0 1st W California

1990
Fresno State 8–2–1 5–5–1
1991
Fresno State 10–2 6–1 1st L California

Fresno State Bulldogs (Western Athletic Conference) (1992–1996)

1992
Fresno State 9–4 6–2 T–1st W Freedom
22 24
1993
Fresno State 8–4 6–2 T–1st L Aloha

1994
Fresno State 5–7–1 3–4–1 7th
1995
Fresno State 5–7 2–6 T–7th
1996
Fresno State 4–7 3–5 T–5th (Pacific)
1997
Fresno State 6–6 5–3 3rd (Pacific)
1998
Fresno State 5–6 5–3 T–3rd (Pacific)
1999
Fresno State 8–5 5–2 T–1st L Las Vegas

2000
Fresno State 7–5 6–2 3rd L Silicon Valley

2001
Fresno State 11–3 6–2 T–2nd L Silicon Valley

2002
Fresno State 9–5 6–2 3rd W Silicon Valley

2003
Fresno State 9–5 6–2 T–2nd W Silicon Valley

2004
Fresno State 9–3 5–3 T–3rd W MPC Computers
22 22
2005
Fresno State
8–5 6–2 T–3rd L Liberty

2006
Fresno State
4–8 4–4 5th
2007
Fresno State
9–4 6–2 3rd W Humanitarian

2008
Fresno State
7–6 4–4 T–5th L New Mexico

2009
Fresno State
8–5 6–2 3rd L New Mexico

2010
Fresno State
8–5 5–3 4th L Humanitarian

2011
Fresno State
4–9 3–4 T–4th

As for the whole Western Division thing, I have still yet to figure out why fans of teams who willingly joined an Eastern based conference, keep eyeing for a westward expansion. That was never the intention. Boise St was added for a specific reason, with San Diego State added purely as a favor to BSU. All other teams considered were considered due to national appeal or merit. Fresno does not meet that requirement, especially not enough considering the drawbacks of added travel. Air Force is nationally recognized, and adds the other benefit of being one of the few teams that is always popular and always respected despite its record.

The cold hard fact is that some teams who are now good, will take a step back due to the expansion of the conference and more conference games. This makes Air Force more valuable, because if they are one of those teams, they still bring value. None of the other Western schools can say that, even Boise.

C'mon Man!
Ok, when the Big East brass got their administrative jewels handed to them by Cuse, Pitt and West Virgin and after they awoke from their collective catatonic daze, they responded by spending a small fortune the size of Guyana's GDP on some of the best business, economics, marketing and sports minds in the country to advise them on what course of action to take to rescue them from extinction!!
This brain trust recomended several colleges to target for inclusion in the NBE. They were: Notre Dame, Boise State, BYU, AFA, Navy, Army, Houston, UCF and SMU! When BYU declined they then targeted SDSU.
Where was Fresno State in the decision making to save the Big East?
Answer; No where!
I really think Fresno State will be a solid choice for NBE membership someday but c'mon man!! AFA is light years ahead of them in brand, exposure and national appeal!!

MY VOTE: Off we go into the wild blue yonder.....................

AFA may be small but the skill players typically attend their offsite HS academy for a year or two to learn that crazy option offense before they ever hit campus. Also, Troy Calhoun is a very good coach and it goes without saying their players are highly disciplined.

I have a feeling some of you may end up having second thoughts about having AFA in the BE.

My vote is Fresno, but I believe it will be Air Force.

(03-27-2012 10:41 AM)TOGC Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 10:23 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  If the NBE is supposed to be about City metro schools, Fresno fits the Bill. Yeah AFA near Denver but not the same thing. IMHO.

Colorado Springs has a metropolitan population of 645,613.

Aside from that, Air Force has a larger national following than Fresno State.

I have been sitting back reading the stuff that has been printed. I have lived in the Fresno area most of my life and a Fresno State Graduate and a proud member of the U.S Air Force for the past 22 years. I hear a lot of people saying the Air Force is more recognizable then Fresno State. I agree in that AFA is recognized but not necessarily for there sports, but just because they are Air Force . I have travelled all over the World and when I am out and about I wear my Fresno State gear. People recognize my gear and always say they know Fresno State not just because of the football team, but other sports as well such as Baseball, Softball. By the way Fresno Metro area is close to 750,000.

(03-28-2012 06:07 PM)SleepingGiantsFan Wrote:  AFA may be small but the skill players typically attend their offsite HS academy for a year or two to learn that crazy option offense before they ever hit campus. Also, Troy Calhoun is a very good coach and it goes without saying their players are highly disciplined.
I have a feeling some of you may end up having second thoughts about having AFA in the BE.

And he's loyal. Plus Air Force players just don't have any quit in them, they fight and they fight hard. I was impressed last year when they came to Bronco Stadium. That was probably the most fun I'd at a home game since the Oregon game in '09.

Air Force is just the better pick, despite the fact that I like Fresno.

(03-28-2012 07:15 PM)dogman144 Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 10:41 AM)TOGC Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 10:23 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  If the NBE is supposed to be about City metro schools, Fresno fits the Bill. Yeah AFA near Denver but not the same thing. IMHO.

Colorado Springs has a metropolitan population of 645,613.

Aside from that, Air Force has a larger national following than Fresno State.

I have been sitting back reading the stuff that has been printed. I have lived in the Fresno area most of my life and a Fresno State Graduate and a proud member of the U.S Air Force for the past 22 years. I hear a lot of people saying the Air Force is more recognizable then Fresno State. I agree in that AFA is recognized but not necessarily for there sports, but just because they are Air Force . I have travelled all over the World and when I am out and about I wear my Fresno State gear. People recognize my gear and always say they know Fresno State not just because of the football team, but other sports as well such as Baseball, Softball. By the way Fresno Metro area is close to 750,000.

I think you're right it is a mixed bag however... Air Force has been as of late the more successful service academy in Football. I think that is part of the arguement but to say they are more successful than Fresno State would be arguable or and not much difference.

There is a tendency to reverence and look up to the service academies because of the job they do, what they stand for, and how they live their lives (they damm well deserve that respect).

I think it is this reverence and romance of the American people that BE is hoping to tap into?

I remember the last time we played Air Force at Fresno State a rather boring game if you ask me. Service academy games are all rather boring if you ask me.

I am pretty much over the fact in wanting to get the invite for Fresno State, I certainly do not want to be where my team is not wanted nor would I want my team to be somewhere they are not wanted.

There are some real good people here in these boards. I will continue to keep my eye on BE sports only to monitor their opinion of Fresno State and to cheer on the teams who play against the ASSTICKS.

GO DOGS and beat the ASSTICKS!!!

This is old but to the Louisville fan, when I said Air Force can at least be 6-6 I meant after they join the Big East. They would be successful initially but they are going to have a hard time keeping up with Houston and Boise in the west division when they start getting 4 star recruits.

(03-29-2012 05:58 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  This is old but to the Louisville fan, when I said Air Force can at least be 6-6 I meant after they join the Big East. They would be successful initially but they are going to have a hard time keeping up with Houston and Boise in the west division when they start getting 4 star recruits.

I know many said the same thing about Cincinnati when they joined the Big East ("how can Cinci compete with the likes of WVU, Pitt et al) yet they did...(actually did better than just "compete") and others said "Louisville will just run away with it"...yet, outside of one year, UL's been a big disappointment.

Beautiful thing about the future, it doesn't exist....yet, so ANYTHING is possible.

(03-29-2012 06:50 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 05:58 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  This is old but to the Louisville fan, when I said Air Force can at least be 6-6 I meant after they join the Big East. They would be successful initially but they are going to have a hard time keeping up with Houston and Boise in the west division when they start getting 4 star recruits.

I know many said the same thing about Cincinnati when they joined the Big East ("how can Cinci compete with the likes of WVU, Pitt et al) yet they did...(actually did better than just "compete") and others said "Louisville will just run away with it"...yet, outside of one year, UL's been a big disappointment.

Beautiful thing about the future, it doesn't exist....yet, so ANYTHING is possible.

The problem is that service academies have weight and height requirements or restrictions where as non academies dont! Grant it Air Force has been doing well with schools like TCU, Utah, ect... but this conference will eventually require a different type of athelete. It is expected the those schools TCU, Utah, and now Boise, and SDSU will attract a different level of athelete and Air Force therefore could be at risk of either being out recruited or bending rules.

Air Force, because of their national brand name. I like Fresno, too, and feel they may join us if another conference member leaves.

No need to breath fire people wasn't predicting the future was just giving one man's opinion. People saying teams like Cincy or Uconn would not compete were just saying that out of spite most likely. I'm sure one day everyone is going to remember all the conference USA fans cursing Memphis football to fail in the Big East.

My reasoning in believing Air Force won't succeed is that they just can't recruit those 4.4 40 high school football stars who dream of playing in the NFL. Every person who puts on the Air Force Army and Football uniform is an individual of honor but they just won't have the talent no matter what schemes they come up with.

Air Force is a quick fix type of addition that's not going likely yield results down the road. The talent in California is plentiful and as time goes on it's only going to become more available.

In my opinion, there is a large void to be filled in california, considering that the only real football powers on the west coast are USC and Oregon. That's one reason why I like Fresno, but I still feel Air Force is the better option, mostly for an obvious partner in Navy. Call it OCD.

(03-29-2012 11:17 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  No need to breath fire people wasn't predicting the future was just giving one man's opinion. People saying teams like Cincy or Uconn would not compete were just saying that out of spite most likely. I'm sure one day everyone is going to remember all the conference USA fans cursing Memphis football to fail in the Big East.

My reasoning in believing Air Force won't succeed is that they just can't recruit those 4.4 40 high school football stars who dream of playing in the NFL. Every person who puts on the Air Force Army and Football uniform is an individual of honor but they just won't have the talent no matter what schemes they come up with.

Air Force is a quick fix type of addition that's not going likely yield results down the road. The talent in California is plentiful and as time goes on it's only going to become more available.

^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^ Excellent point.

I voted Air Force. I think they bring a stonger national reputation. They'd also provide a bridge from the Texas schools to Boise/SDSU. And they'd balance out the two divisions, with an academy on each side... and perhaps provide Boise State with another partner in their oly sports conference.

(03-27-2012 12:37 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 01:01 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Air Force has a nice national following and can at least be a 6-6 team most years but Air Force is probably never going to play in a BCS bowl.

Neither will Maryland, Virginia, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Illinois, Oregon State, Washington State, Texas Tech, etc., but they are still valuable to their conferences.

So let me first state my wife is a WSU Vet school alum. But if the PAC could kick out WSU and keep Washington they would in a second

(03-29-2012 07:16 PM)fresnostatebulldogfan Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 06:50 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

The problem is that service academies have weight and height requirements or restrictions where as non academies dont! Grant it Air Force has been doing well with schools like TCU, Utah, ect... but this conference will eventually require a different type of athelete. It is expected the those schools TCU, Utah, and now Boise, and SDSU will attract a different level of athelete and Air Force therefore could be at risk of either being out recruited or bending rules.

I would be schocked if they bent the rules. This isn't Cal, if an AF recruit doesn't perform people die. They want the best and brightest for a reason. AF is a great school and their are lots of reasons to choose them: Associate yourself with a prestigious institution, stabalized the WAC for Boise, strong consistent football. But if your criteria is most football potential or market size then Fresno would have to be your choice. Personally I think the first options will win out and AF will go Big East.

(03-30-2012 07:04 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 07:16 PM)fresnostatebulldogfan Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 06:50 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

The problem is that service academies have weight and height requirements or restrictions where as non academies dont! Grant it Air Force has been doing well with schools like TCU, Utah, ect... but this conference will eventually require a different type of athelete. It is expected the those schools TCU, Utah, and now Boise, and SDSU will attract a different level of athelete and Air Force therefore could be at risk of either being out recruited or bending rules.

I would be schocked if they bent the rules. This isn't Cal, if an AF recruit doesn't perform people die. They want the best and brightest for a reason. AF is a great school and their are lots of reasons to choose them: Associate yourself with a prestigious institution, stabalized the WAC for Boise, strong consistent football. But if your criteria is most football potential or market size then Fresno would have to be your choice. Personally I think the first options will win out and AF will go Big East.

This is what I elude to in one of my other posts. People's view of the military is that of heroism, power, strength, capacity, and intelligence. The academies are the essentials of the military. The leaders among the military are the elite commanders, ultimate respect and honor therefore this catches people eyes because first of all they view our military as being elite and then the leaders of the group or the officers even more so.

I think the BE could care less about potential at this point. What want to tap into is the popularity of the public eye and catch their interest. The problem that I see is that after awhile people will prefer to tune into and cheer for the winner it is just how things go. I just dont see air force or navy for that matter. They wont have much more than average (AT BEST) success. They won't attract that type of athlete to compete with the more successful teams. So I view Air Force as a short term fix because really people don't like watching 60 minutes of triple option it is just plan ol boring no matter how successful it is.

It doesn't really matter what we think on this message board. What matters is what the school presidents, AD's, and the conference commissioner thinks. And the Big East has already approached the AFA once. Probably because of the matchup with Navy and the more national audience.