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eroc Offline
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Post: #1
Doc wrote this?
Quote:Column: Why Cincinnati area doesn't care about Ohio State

By Paul Daugherty

The Cincinnati Enquirer Wednesday March 21, 2012 6:13 PM

BOSTON -- We here in the Republic of Cincinnati, Hybrid, Ohio, USA don’t much care about The Ohio State University. If we are being honest and candid and not flexing our legendary politeness, we will admit to mass indifference when it comes to the Buckeyes and their quasi-amateur athletes. Sam Wyche -- philanthropist, philosopher, mad genius, occasional football coach – said it best:

“Ya don’t live in Columbus! Ya live in Cincinnati!’

Uh, Paul.

Yeah?

It was, “Ya don’t live in Cleveland.’’

Oh. Well. Columbus. Cleveland. The rest of the state. Same (in)difference.

I won’t say we’re provincial. But there are some of us who don’t realize there is civilization east of I-75. How are we supposed to find meaning 100 miles up I-71?

Don’t ask me. Ask my colleague Howard Wilkinson, who has covered politics for about 1,000 years, and grew up in Dayton. “People here have come to recognize themselves more as Cincinnatians than Ohioans,’’ he said. “That’s not necessarily the case in Lima.’’

There are some who resent Ohio State’s bigness. They find the Buckeyes’ unwillingness to play UC in basketball snobbish and smug. They took great pleasure in the Humpty Dumpty-ness of Jim Tressel, the real-life Wizard of Oz.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

For those people, THE Ohio State University is in Clifton, case closed, thankyouverymuch.

The vast rest of us?

Eh.

It’s not resentment, if you really don’t care. It’s like getting worked up over socket wrenches or peas n’ carrots.

(Before TOSU subscribers to the Enquirer start a bonfire with their newspapers and A. Griffin comes after me with a blocking sled, allow me a shocking disclaimer: The erstwhile Kid Down The Hall graduated last May from Ohio State. He received a very good education, particularly his last two years, especially for the price. I was mightily impressed with Ohio State, in all respects. So there is that.)

The Buckeyes have to play the Bearcats Thursday night. They can’t buy their way out of it. It’s the agreed-upon format of the NCAA tournament. You can bet they’re not happy about it.

"Scheduling is something we work on continuously," said Thad Matta, the Ohio State coach and Xavier turncoat. "Our philosophy has been to schedule home-and-home series outside the state of Ohio to give our program more national exposure whenever possible."

What Matta really means is, UC is not an acceptable loss for the Buckeyes. It couldn’t be explained to the alums and the fatwallet boosters. There is no “upside’’, to borrow a jock-o-matic term. Ohio State does not need to play Cincinnati, so it doesn’t .

In football, TOSU’s willingness to play Ohio schools is seen as a benevolent act, a nice payday for Akron or Youngstown St., for the chance to get clobbered. Basketball includes no such charity, because on any given evening, UC, Xavier or OU could beat the Buckeyes.

That doesn’t explain our overall ambivalence with much that is Buckeye. Maybe this does:

We have our own stuff here. Cleveland is a big Buckeye stronghold. Cleveland has no college sports of its own. Akron, Canton, Toledo etc.: Not much to cheer for if you’re not singing Carmen Ohio. Dayton has the Flyers. Every little blue highway between here and Ashtabula loves its Bucks, because there’s nothing else.

Cincinnati has two schools playing in the Sweet 16. And we’re supposed to get excited about The School Up North?

Some do. Most are on campus in Clifton.

“On campus, it’s absolutely not indifferent. There is no love for Ohio State at all,’’ said Chris Phillips, the head of the history department at UC. Phillips has researched local history extensively, and edited a magazine devoted to Cincinnati history. “Cincinnati feels it’s a little sister of the poor to Ohio State. There is a very vested interest in this rivalry-that-isn’t .’’

To the rest of Bearcat Nation, Ohio State is the next wall. As Yancy Gates put it Wednesday, “It’s not about Cincinnati versus Ohio State. It’s about advancing to the Elite Eight.’’

The Republic of Cincinnati comes by it naturally. Literally. We’re down here in the far left corner, surrounded by hills and a big river. We can see two other states from here. In Columbus, they see silos. We have far more in common with Louisville than with Cleveland. We are southern; Cleveland is Eastern. Columbus is Midwestern, kind of, thanks to its affiliation with a Midwestern sports league.

Ohio State defines Columbus. UC enhances Cincinnati.

Phillips said, “The feeling among longtime Cincinnatians is that the rest of the state is latecomers.’’ UC archivist Kevin Grace even suggests our provincialism owes to a big Appalachian influence. Mountain folks are clannish and suspicious of outsiders.

Yeah, maybe. Either that, or we simply don’t fawn over the Buckeyes the way the rest of Ohio does. We don’t need to. Personally, I think we deserve points just for acknowledging the rest of the state exists. As Mick Cronin noted Wednesday, “Cincinnati is a different city. We live in our own little world inside 275.’’

It’s not resentment or jealousy or any of the baser emotions. It’s indifference, wrapped in ambivalence, covered in apathy.

Go Bucks. Somewhere
 
03-21-2012 06:27 PM
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ctipton Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Doc wrote this?
An absolute great line:

Quote:Ohio State defines Columbus. UC enhances Cincinnati.


Quote:Cincinnati has two schools playing in the Sweet 16. And we’re supposed to get excited about The School Up North?
 
03-21-2012 07:29 PM
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JackieTreehorn Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
I guess the dude can really write when he puts his mind to it. Didn't know he had it in him.
 
03-21-2012 07:34 PM
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vabearcat Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
Like a lot of his stuff, it's not that well-written, nor even very accurate in a lot of respects. As a graduate of UC's College of Business and College of Law, I never felt that UC felt like it was a "little sister of the poor compared to Ohio State". Every one who knows anything about the quality of certain schools knows that UC's Law, Medicine, Pharmacy, Architecture, CCM and Departments like Geology, Romance Languages, Environmental Health Sciences, etc. are as good, if not better, than OSU's. Our College of Law was almost always superior, at least until our current ACLU-embracing, class warfare-loving. Pinko-sympathizing embarrassment of a Dean took over. Now scholarship and merit have been cast aside for political correctness, far-out left wing dogma and too many "critical legal studies" professors whose practical legal experience was in Moot Court three years ago at Georgetown. In any event, much of our disassociation for things O$U stems not only for its brazen and unbridled arrogance in athletics, but also how its political allies in state government and in its legions of fawning alumni in the Ohio General Assembly shower countless millions on O$U's research facilities, buildings, libraries, and infrastructure while the remainder of the state's public universities grovel for the remaining crumbs off the table. Its not a coincidence how Columbus has grown to be the largest city in population and per-capita income in the State while the remainder of the State suffers population loss, income loss and unemployment not seen since the Great Depression. While Columbus and O$U prosper, the rest of the State has suffered mightily economically. Not 40 years ago, Cincinnati's population, manufacturing base, regional GDP and national prominence dwarfed that of Columbus. Today, Cincinnati lags, as do Cleveland, Toledo, Akron, Dayton and other once prominent economic communities. Part of the problem, of course, is that folks in Columbus are clueless and feel that OSU's stature, to the extent that it exists (Every school in America wants to be in the Big Ten, right? Just ask Rutgers) is the natural order of things. In reality, OSU academically is no better than the 6th or 7th strongest institution in the Big Ten, and that might be charitable. You would think that a University (UC) which ranks among the top 50-60 research universities in the country, that has roughly 40,000 students, which is the largest employer in the region, that maintains a $1 billion endowment, that has won more national basketball championships than O$U, and has been to just about as many BCS Bowl games in recent years as its "big brother" would be afforded just a grudging amount of respect. But, Nooooooooooooo! We are INFERIOR, folks. Just ask those paragons of virtue, Thad Matta, Jim Tressel, Gordon Gee and Gene Smith.
 
03-21-2012 07:36 PM
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cmhcat Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
Columbus is the largest "city" but not the largest MSA. The Cincinnati MSA remains healthy and has never shown a decrease in population in any census. Population within the city limits matters only to politicians. Economically speaking it's the market population that matters, and Cincinnati at 2.3 million remains superior to Columbus at 1.7 million.
 
03-21-2012 08:11 PM
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Bearcat 1984 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Doc wrote this?
Doc is not from Cincinnati, and never will be. He is an outsider.

But he is right that Cincinnatians generally don't identify with Columbus or the wider state of Ohio. Part of that is that at least one-third of our region's population is in Kentucky. They are just as much "Cincinnatians" (in a regional sense) as those of us on the north bank of the river. But Cincinnati is older than the rest of the state, and was a real city and a big city long before Columbus was even a goat crossing.

Ohio up there is flat and boring and full of flat and boring people.

I could go on, but I don't really care.
 
03-21-2012 08:37 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
The part about seeing three states is an underestimated point. You can see the differences in the major cities in Ohio and its reflected in sporting realities.

Cincinnati is the tri-state area. People live and work in three states. State pride doesn't mean as much in those circumstances.

In Columbus, we are split for either the Bengals/Browns and Reds/Indians (with the Reds and Browns traditionally being the slightly bigger ones I'd guess). We go to Cedar Point in the north and Kings Island in the south. Our weather reports either shows the whole state or a good portion of it. A large number of people relative to Cleavland or Cincinnati moved here from further north or south.

Cleveland has a ton of local pride, but it's a purely Ohio city not a tristate area. Like the rest of northern Ohio, it's close enough to Michigan though that the rivalry between the states is real. It's lack of success at the professional level also helps Ohio State, which is often the biggest winner the city has.
 
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2012 08:45 PM by ohio1317.)
03-21-2012 08:45 PM
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Racinejake Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
(03-21-2012 08:11 PM)cmhcat Wrote:  Columbus is the largest "city" but not the largest MSA. The Cincinnati MSA remains healthy and has never shown a decrease in population in any census. Population within the city limits matters only to politicians. Economically speaking it's the market population that matters, and Cincinnati at 2.3 million remains superior to Columbus at 1.7 million.

Agreed. Columbus continually annexes towns to keep its population 'growing.' The land area of Columbus is now over 210 square miles whereas Cincinnati's is less than 80 sq. miles. Columbus is really a suburban city.

Great article by Doc, though. Really encompasses how people in Cincinnati feel. I will disagree with him in Cincinnati being more of a 'southern' city. I work a lot between cities throughout the midwest as well as Louisville and I see Louisville (at least in business) as a much slower pace than Cincinnati. I see Cincinnati as more similar to cities like Pittsburgh and even Milwaukee.
 
03-21-2012 09:02 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
(03-21-2012 09:02 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  Agreed. Columbus continually annexes towns to keep its population 'growing.' The land area of Columbus is now over 210 square miles whereas Cincinnati's is less than 80 sq. miles. Columbus is really a suburban city.

I remember reading about this for a geography class (hated most those for being so liberal, but this one was OK). Columbus is more like a Sunbelt city in this respect. Most older more developed Midwestern and northeastern cities are landlocked, while Columbus is more like more southern cities which has grown more recently and spread out as it wasn't already completely surround.
 
03-21-2012 09:16 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
wow second good article in a row from Pdoc....nice
 
03-21-2012 09:36 PM
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BeerCat Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Doc wrote this?
(03-21-2012 09:02 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  
(03-21-2012 08:11 PM)cmhcat Wrote:  Columbus is the largest "city" but not the largest MSA. The Cincinnati MSA remains healthy and has never shown a decrease in population in any census. Population within the city limits matters only to politicians. Economically speaking it's the market population that matters, and Cincinnati at 2.3 million remains superior to Columbus at 1.7 million.

Agreed. Columbus continually annexes towns to keep its population 'growing.' The land area of Columbus is now over 210 square miles whereas Cincinnati's is less than 80 sq. miles. Columbus is really a suburban city.

Great article by Doc, though. Really encompasses how people in Cincinnati feel. I will disagree with him in Cincinnati being more of a 'southern' city. I work a lot between cities throughout the midwest as well as Louisville and I see Louisville (at least in business) as a much slower pace than Cincinnati. I see Cincinnati as more similar to cities like Pittsburgh and even Milwaukee.

Cincy is not southern, The South starts somewhere around Crittenden.
 
03-21-2012 10:54 PM
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lazyeyep22 Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
(03-21-2012 10:54 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  
(03-21-2012 09:02 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  
(03-21-2012 08:11 PM)cmhcat Wrote:  Columbus is the largest "city" but not the largest MSA. The Cincinnati MSA remains healthy and has never shown a decrease in population in any census. Population within the city limits matters only to politicians. Economically speaking it's the market population that matters, and Cincinnati at 2.3 million remains superior to Columbus at 1.7 million.

Agreed. Columbus continually annexes towns to keep its population 'growing.' The land area of Columbus is now over 210 square miles whereas Cincinnati's is less than 80 sq. miles. Columbus is really a suburban city.

Great article by Doc, though. Really encompasses how people in Cincinnati feel. I will disagree with him in Cincinnati being more of a 'southern' city. I work a lot between cities throughout the midwest as well as Louisville and I see Louisville (at least in business) as a much slower pace than Cincinnati. I see Cincinnati as more similar to cities like Pittsburgh and even Milwaukee.

Cincy is not southern, The South starts somewhere around Crittenden.

Agreed. I think his point is that Cincy is more southern than Columbus, which it is, but if you compare it to the South and East, it's a decidedly Midwestern city.
 
03-22-2012 06:38 AM
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BearChatter v2.0 Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
I've never understood the hatred of Doc. I know most of his stuff usually comes from a negative nelly perspective. But he isn't from here, but has lived here a long time. He positions himself as more of the Devil's Advocate in most arguments, rather than being a homer. I've always gotten that about Doc. Personally, I don't like homers who lack perspective. Those people who rip or criticize anyone who questions their home team.

Good article.

I've always felt like O$U were simply a bunch of underachievers. Going all the way back to the Woody Hayes days. I guess I remember him punching the opposing player too well. Just always seemed to me that OSU came up short way too often. I followed them back in the Jimmy Jackson basketball days, and I think Randy Ayers was the head coach. Had a bunch of talent but they just weren't very dominant. I guess my younger days saw a second fiddle type of OSU. And then for beaknose to take over the coaching duties and suddenly (and mysteriously $$$$) get all these superrecruits to sign with them........makes me suspicious. Ranks them up there with UK$ and Slimapari for me.
 
03-22-2012 07:23 AM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Doc wrote this?
great article. this is exactly what i was saying in a previous thread, although it isn't exactly new news. i wouldn't call cincinnati "southern," though because of how old the town is, we've come to embrace many walks of life. cincinnati was once one of the 10 biggest cities in the country, but like with all river towns, there was a significant decline. i wonder where we'd be if we had the subway fully functional 90 years ago? maybe another chicago? i love this city and i do like columbus too. columbus has a mead bar. i like mead
 
03-22-2012 08:19 AM
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BearcatBeta Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
The Buckeyes have to play the Bearcats Thursday night. They can’t buy their way out of it

:ncaabbs::ncaabbs::ncaabbs:
 
03-22-2012 09:11 AM
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Murph29 Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
Serioulsy, what the hell is Buckeye basketball? And where do they get off feeling too elite to risk playing us or anyone? Reading some of the articles you'd think they've won multiple national titles in the last few years or have been some uber dominant program. Have they been better than us in the last 6 years, sure but that's expected when our program was totally imploded and rebuilt over 5 years. We're now both in the sweet 16 and I'd argue we play in a better overall basketball conference. As far as I'm concered, we're on equal footing with those cowards up north and I have a feeling with what Mick is building we'll be passing them by in little time.
 
03-22-2012 09:21 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Doc wrote this?
(03-22-2012 09:21 AM)Murph29 Wrote:  Serioulsy, what the hell is Buckeye basketball? And where do they get off feeling too elite to risk playing us or anyone? Reading some of the articles you'd think they've won multiple national titles in the last few years or have been some uber dominant program. Have they been better than us in the last 6 years, sure but that's expected when our program was totally imploded and rebuilt over 5 years. We're now both in the sweet 16 and I'd argue we play in a better overall basketball conference. As far as I'm concered, we're on equal footing with those cowards up north and I have a feeling with what Mick is building we'll be passing them by in little time.

Thad Matta is absolutely fantastic.






At doing less with more than anyone in the country.




Seriously though. Most overrated coach ever. Zero accomplishments to his name.
 
03-22-2012 09:27 AM
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BearcatsUC Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Doc wrote this?
I think Daugherty is a talented writer and he hit the nail on the head with this one. The only part I disagreed with was the UC professor who thinks we perceive ourselves as OSU's poor little sister.

I think the problem is that OSU perceives us as the poor little sister and we simply don't like it, and justifiably so.

Tonight's game is not only for UC fans, but for all the "other" schools in the state - even Ohio U - who feel they have to play second fiddle to the overrated school to the north.

Yes, this game is for the "other 99%" - the rest of Ohio who feels their respective schools are just as good as the one in Columbus.
 
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2012 03:54 PM by BearcatsUC.)
03-22-2012 09:43 AM
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converrl Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
A couple of things to note:

The "Southern City" reference is probably historic--since the Mason-Dixon line runs across the Ohio River--so from that standpoint, Cincinnati would have been traditionally considered the "most Southern" Northern city..

As for O$U Basketball...the tradition there is probably as deep as UC's...and pretty much follows the same time scale (with some exceptions) for being up..and down. It's just serendipity that the historic peak for their program came at the same time as UC's--hence the acrimony toward UC when they beat them TWICE in the NCAA championship.

A list of O$U players in the NBA is impressive--it includes 4 HOFers--the most impressive being John Havlicek and Jerry Lucas:

Anderson, Derek 1997-2007
Baker, Mark 1998-1998
Bradds, Gary 1964-1970
Campbell, Tony 1984-1994
Cleamons, Jim 1971-1979
Conley Jr., Mike 2007-2010
Cook, Daequan 2007-2010
Donham, Bob 1950-1953
Funderburke, Lawrence 1997-
Grate, Don 1949-1949
Havlicek, John 1962-1977 HOF
Hopson, Dennis 1987-1991
Hosket, Wilmer 1968-1971
Hunter, Othello 2008-2009
Huston, Paul 1947-1947
Jackson, Jim 1992-2005
Jackson, Wardell 1974-1974
Jent, Chris 1993-1996
Johnson, Ken 2002-2002
Johnston, Neil 1951-1958 HOF
Jorgensen, Roger 1946-1946
Kellogg, Clark 1982-1986
Koufos, Kosta 2008-2010
Lucas, Jerry 1963-1973 HOF
Minor, Mark 1972-1972
Nowell, Mel 1962-1967
Oden, Greg 2008-2009
Pugh, Les 1948-1949
Ransey, Kelvin 1980-1985
Redd, Michael 2000-2010
Risen, Arnie 1948-1957 HOF
Roberts, Joe 1960-1967
Schnittker, Dick 1950-1957
Sellers, Brad 1986-1992
Siegfried, Larry 1963-1971
Smith, Jim 1981-1982
Sorenson, Dave 1970-1972
Waiters, Granville 1983-1987
Williams, Herb 1981-1998
Witte, Luke 1973-1975

Incidentally, UC's list of players is below, with 2 HOFers the most impressive of the bunch would be Oscar:

Ard, Jim 1970-1977
Batts, Lloyd 1974-1974
Blount, Corie 1993-2003
Bobbitt, Tony 2004-
Bonham, Ron 1964-1967
Cummings, Pat 1979-1990
Davis, Ralph 1960-1961
Dickey, Derrek 1973-1977
Dierking, Connie 1958-1970
Fortson, Danny 1997-2006
Hogue, Paul 1962-1963
Holstein, Jim 1952-1955
Johnson, Dermarr 2000-2007
Long, Art 2000-2002
Martin, Kenyon 2000-2010
Maxiell, Jason 2005-2010
Miller, Bob 1983-1983
Patterson, Ruben 1998-2007
Roberson, Rick 1969-1975
Robertson, Oscar 1960-1973 HOF
Satterfield, Kenny 2001-2002
Stevens, Wayne 1959-1959
Thacker, Tom 1963-1970
Twyman, Jack 1955-1965 HOF
Van Exel, Nick 1993-2005
West, Roland 1967-1967
White, James 2006-2008
Wiesenhahn, Bob 1961-1961
Williams, Mike 1989-1989
Wilson, George 1964-1970
Wingfield, Donton 1994-1997
 
03-22-2012 09:45 AM
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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RE: Doc wrote this?
Pfft, Greg Oden.
 
03-22-2012 09:48 AM
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