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New flagrant rule
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BeerCat Offline
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Post: #1
New flagrant rule
Am I the only one that despises this rule? When I grew up you were taught that if a defender is too close to you you clear the ball through your area. I understand an obviously intentional elbow should be illegal. But when a defender gets right up in you, they should do so with the risk of getting their nose broken. This rule needs to be changes ASAP.
 
03-14-2012 10:03 PM
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subflea Offline
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Post: #2
RE: New flagrant rule
They are just jumping on the concussion bandwagon, so anything above the shoulders is going to get called. I don't like the rule, but I understand why they implemented it.
 
03-14-2012 10:27 PM
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WarningSigns Offline
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Post: #3
RE: New flagrant rule
It needs to be revised. An offensive player should be able to sweep the ball high and tight without getting a flagrant.
 
03-14-2012 10:55 PM
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BeerCat Offline
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RE: New flagrant rule
(03-14-2012 10:27 PM)subflea Wrote:  They are just jumping on the concussion bandwagon, so anything above the shoulders is going to get called. I don't like the rule, but I understand why they implemented it.

Yeah I understand it too, even though I don't ever remember a basketball player getting a concussion like that but I'm sure it has happened. It just gives the defense such an advantage. If it stays in place, coaches are going to figure out how to abuse the rule.
 
03-15-2012 07:40 AM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #5
RE: New flagrant rule
What if you smacked the defender with the ball instead of your elbow?
 
03-15-2012 09:14 AM
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ctipton Offline
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Post: #6
RE: New flagrant rule
(03-15-2012 09:14 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  What if you smacked the defender with the ball instead of your elbow?

Probably depends on "intent" and the referee.
 
03-15-2012 09:33 AM
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BigDawg Offline
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RE: New flagrant rule
I don't really like it either, though if You are leading with an elbow, I can see the concern. But as a guy that has given and taken them back in the day via this route, there has to be a happy medium. If someone gets in your grill, you need to be able to pull the ball through to square up legally, which means the arms and elbows are coming though. There is a fine line, but it is when someone just throws an intentional elbow that they need to stop. But it is hard to guess the intent.

I can say I have cleared out with and without intent in the past. When someone just does not get the hint, sometimes you can get a little aggressive and mean it. That really should be a foul and I would not really complain as I would likely get my point across. But the difference is small and you really can't as an official know what the intent is, so they air on the side of caution. Don't like it, but I understand the concern.
 
03-15-2012 11:13 AM
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BeerCat Offline
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Post: #8
RE: New flagrant rule
Well, I think the refs in the CSU Murray St. game just ignored the rule and based the no call on intent (or the lack there of in that case).
 
03-15-2012 12:35 PM
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subflea Offline
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RE: New flagrant rule
I think since that guy was making a pass and not clearing space they felt it didn't fall under the rule.
 
03-15-2012 12:37 PM
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Coopdaddy67 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: New flagrant rule
(03-15-2012 12:37 PM)subflea Wrote:  I think since that guy was making a pass and not clearing space they felt it didn't fall under the rule.

Yeah, not to mention the guy just ran straight into it.
 
03-15-2012 12:42 PM
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BeerCat Offline
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RE: New flagrant rule
(03-15-2012 12:37 PM)subflea Wrote:  I think since that guy was making a pass and not clearing space they felt it didn't fall under the rule.

I keep hearing that if there is contact with the elbow above the neck it is a flagrant 1 regardless of intent.
 
03-15-2012 02:28 PM
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WarningSigns Offline
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Post: #12
RE: New flagrant rule
New idea: Replace elbow rule with a helmet mandate.

[Image: ept_sports_ncaab_experts-182862495-12904...EDVDjF3NS1]
 
03-15-2012 02:51 PM
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BeerCat Offline
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RE: New flagrant rule
(03-15-2012 02:51 PM)WarningSigns Wrote:  New idea: Replace elbow rule with a helmet mandate.

[Image: ept_sports_ncaab_experts-182862495-12904...EDVDjF3NS1]

Functional AND fashionable.
 
03-15-2012 02:55 PM
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Coopdaddy67 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: New flagrant rule
(03-15-2012 02:28 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  I keep hearing that if there is contact with the elbow above the neck it is a flagrant 1 regardless of intent.

Officials have to use common sense. In that case, the guy was passing the ball left, the defender came rushing in and ran into his elbow. It would have been ridiculous to call that.

If you're going to call that, I'm telling my players to attach their face to the opponent's elbow each time down the floor.
 
03-15-2012 02:55 PM
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BeerCat Offline
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Post: #15
RE: New flagrant rule
(03-15-2012 02:55 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  
(03-15-2012 02:28 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  I keep hearing that if there is contact with the elbow above the neck it is a flagrant 1 regardless of intent.

Officials have to use common sense. In that case, the guy was passing the ball left, the defender came rushing in and ran into his elbow. It would have been ridiculous to call that.

If you're going to call that, I'm telling my players to attach their face to the opponent's elbow each time down the floor.
I agree with you, but I believe that was the old rule, to use discretion. But that's not how they have called it this year. And I also agree that teams will get right in people's faces to get the call.
 
03-15-2012 02:58 PM
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Post: #16
RE: New flagrant rule
(03-15-2012 07:40 AM)BeerCat Wrote:  
(03-14-2012 10:27 PM)subflea Wrote:  They are just jumping on the concussion bandwagon, so anything above the shoulders is going to get called. I don't like the rule, but I understand why they implemented it.

Yeah I understand it too, even though I don't ever remember a basketball player getting a concussion like that but I'm sure it has happened. It just gives the defense such an advantage. If it stays in place, coaches are going to figure out how to abuse the rule.

Some of the new research being done showed that youth basketball players get a bunch of concussions, more than people thought. Doubt this rule will be effective though, since I don't think they are primarily from elbows, but from hitting the floor.
 
03-15-2012 06:01 PM
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