(03-23-2012 10:04 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  It's interesting (to me) that the two of the three JMU fans who voted (at this time), voted for JMU's inclusion without bringing in any of their basketball mates from the CAA. I thought that those teams may provide additional (needed) incentive to join, but it appears that moving up to FBS is incentive enough. That's encouraging, I hope the JMU administration feels the same.

Regarding the geographical concerns expressed by some JMU posters (not just on this thread), if you accept the premise that JMU will not be able to jump up to the FBS straight into the ACC or other AQ league, there really is not a non-AQ conference more regional for JMU than the MAC.

The two mentioned CUSA schools plus Ohio are within 300 miles of JMU. But if you were to use the time/distance between JMU and UAB (the 3rd closest CUSA school to JMU) as a radius, 10 of the 13 schools in the MAC that JMU would be playing fit inside of that circle. Only NIU, WMU, and CMU are farther but they would not be in JMU's division. Plus (I didn't verify this but), I think that the remaining three MAC schools are closer to JMU than the 4th closest CUSA school.

First, my "ideal" situation if JMU were to consider the MAC would be if and only if ODU came with us, and possibly Delaware (although I'm unsure of UD's level of commitment to the FBS level). I'd love Appalachian State too, as they have an excellent following and there's already an non-conference rivalry that I want to see grow. Their fans travel well and you'll grow to hate them haha. Being in NC though might prevent ASU from considering the MAC before the Sun Belt. I voted for JMU/UMass full time because it was the best option, although not my ideal option.

You present a valid point about the fact that there is no non-AQ conference geographically closer to Harrisonburg than the MAC. If the eastern half of the CUSA got with some CAA schools and made a new east coast conference, that would be the best scenario. Unfortunately many ECU fans i've encountered online view schools like JMU as "beneath them", even though we used to be in the same conference as recent as the mid 90s. How quickly they forget that they've been turned down by the Big East and really have nowhere to go. That CUSA/MWC merger is a joke and won't last more than 5-7 years when they're all in the red financially.

Really the only reason why I entertain the CUSA conference is because of the higher level of exposure it would bring. Our "ideal" situation to most fans is a conference that does not currently exist.

My biggest concern about the MAC is the fact that it was the least attended conference on the FBS level. I know it's cultural in the North to not like football as much as in southern states, but with Eastern Michigan averaging 4.7k/game (ugh, how do they stay afloat?) and many other schools among the least attended in the FBS, is there a significant reason for this? I know it's tough to compete with the Big Ten for local attention, but almost every state in the country has at least one power conference team to compete with.
App State is the best attended in FCS, JMU 2nd with 25k/game, UD and ODU are also in the top 5 or 6 in that level I believe. If these handful of teams were to join, assuming enthusiasm remains the same, they'd already be one of the best supported programs in the conference right out of the gate.
What does the MAC do to market itself in its local regions?

JMU plays @Akron in the 2013 season, and I'm looking forward to going up to Ohio for the first time. I wonder if Akron will improve before then, our AD joked that they're paying us 250k to go up there and beat them.

Marketing in the MAC is extremely difficult. Notre Dame, Michigan, MSU, Ohio St, Illinois, and Penn St are all located in our geographic region and/or draw a significant following within a 3 hour driving radius of their respective campus'. And that doesn't even mention Purdue, Indiana or Cincy.

This hurts our attendance figures significantly.

The EMU situation is our runt. They are located 20 mins from Ann Arbor and its extremely difficult for them to draw fans.

I do find it hard to believe that the Sun Belt draws more than us...but I didn't look up any numbers.

(03-23-2012 12:38 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Marketing in the MAC is extremely difficult. Notre Dame, Michigan, MSU, Ohio St, Illinois, and Penn St are all located in our geographic region and/or draw a significant following within a 3 hour driving radius of their respective campus'. And that doesn't even mention Purdue, Indiana or Cincy.

This hurts our attendance figures significantly.

The EMU situation is our runt. They are located 20 mins from Ann Arbor and its extremely difficult for them to draw fans.

I do find it hard to believe that the Sun Belt draws more than us...but I didn't look up any numbers.

The belt draws a bit better but a lot of that is demographics. Most MAC schools sit smack dab not only near a big time program but also near some combination of professional football, hockey, or basketball.

(03-23-2012 12:38 PM)EA3 Wrote:  I do find it hard to believe that the Sun Belt draws more than us...but I didn't look up any numbers.

The Sun Belt did average more fans per game than the MAC averaged. Part of that can be attributed to the North/South culture and local weather hurting some attendance (people don't want to go to a game if it's miserably cold and windy outside).
That weekday game ESPN TV contract is a double edged sword. It's great for TV exposure without bigger games standing in the way for attention, but it's at the cost of empty stadiums when fans can't show up as easily on a weeknight.

Here are two NCAA stat pages for attendance for FBS and FCS in 2011 if you're interested. I think it would be a move that could only help the MAC with new markets and loyal fan bases. Some fans will be upset about the increased distance though, but will that affect home attendance? Who knows.

FBS: http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2011/Internet/a...NDANCE.pdf
FCS: http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2011/Internet/a...NDANCE.pdf

(03-23-2012 12:56 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:38 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Marketing in the MAC is extremely difficult. Notre Dame, Michigan, MSU, Ohio St, Illinois, and Penn St are all located in our geographic region and/or draw a significant following within a 3 hour driving radius of their respective campus'. And that doesn't even mention Purdue, Indiana or Cincy.

This hurts our attendance figures significantly.

The EMU situation is our runt. They are located 20 mins from Ann Arbor and its extremely difficult for them to draw fans.

I do find it hard to believe that the Sun Belt draws more than us...but I didn't look up any numbers.

The belt draws a bit better but a lot of that is demographics. Most MAC schools sit smack dab not only near a big time program but also near some combination of professional football, hockey, or basketball.

With JMU, UVA and VT doesn't seem to bother attendance. Maybe that's because VT is 2+ hours away and UVA an hour away. I'm sure part of it is because of the big time programs, but I also wonder if marketing could better, especially word of mouth.

(03-23-2012 03:42 PM)jmufan Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:56 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:38 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Marketing in the MAC is extremely difficult. Notre Dame, Michigan, MSU, Ohio St, Illinois, and Penn St are all located in our geographic region and/or draw a significant following within a 3 hour driving radius of their respective campus'. And that doesn't even mention Purdue, Indiana or Cincy.

This hurts our attendance figures significantly.

The EMU situation is our runt. They are located 20 mins from Ann Arbor and its extremely difficult for them to draw fans.

I do find it hard to believe that the Sun Belt draws more than us...but I didn't look up any numbers.

The belt draws a bit better but a lot of that is demographics. Most MAC schools sit smack dab not only near a big time program but also near some combination of professional football, hockey, or basketball.

With JMU, UVA and VT doesn't seem to bother attendance. Maybe that's because VT is 2+ hours away and UVA an hour away. I'm sure part of it is because of the big time programs, but I also wonder if marketing could better, especially word of mouth.

Could be.

I'm not ragging on VTech or Virginia...but they don't carry the fan bases of Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, or Notre Dame. These programs are associated with college football history and 100k+ stadiums. It's a pain in the rear to compete with.

I have friends who live in Kalamazoo that would rather watch Michigan play on tv than attend a WMU football game if they have the same 3 pm kickoff. I suspect it is no different with the other MAC fans on this board.

For the life of me, I don't know why a person who didn't graduate from Michigan (or Ohio St, or any other BCS school) would choose to jam themselves into a 100k+ stadium and pretend they have a connection with the program. These fans chase pipe dreams and are afraid to root for a team that might not live up to expectations.

(03-23-2012 03:59 PM)EA3 Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 03:42 PM)jmufan Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:56 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:38 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Marketing in the MAC is extremely difficult. Notre Dame, Michigan, MSU, Ohio St, Illinois, and Penn St are all located in our geographic region and/or draw a significant following within a 3 hour driving radius of their respective campus'. And that doesn't even mention Purdue, Indiana or Cincy.

This hurts our attendance figures significantly.

The EMU situation is our runt. They are located 20 mins from Ann Arbor and its extremely difficult for them to draw fans.

I do find it hard to believe that the Sun Belt draws more than us...but I didn't look up any numbers.

The belt draws a bit better but a lot of that is demographics. Most MAC schools sit smack dab not only near a big time program but also near some combination of professional football, hockey, or basketball.

With JMU, UVA and VT doesn't seem to bother attendance. Maybe that's because VT is 2+ hours away and UVA an hour away. I'm sure part of it is because of the big time programs, but I also wonder if marketing could better, especially word of mouth.

Could be.

I'm not ragging on VTech or Virginia...but they don't carry the fan bases of Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, or Notre Dame. These programs are associated with college football history and 100k+ stadiums. It's a pain in the rear to compete with.

I have friends who live in Kalamazoo that would rather watch Michigan play on tv than attend a WMU football game if they have the same 3 pm kickoff. I suspect it is no different with the other MAC fans on this board.

For the life of me, I don't know why a person who didn't graduate from Michigan (or Ohio St, or any other BCS school) would choose to jam themselves into a 100k+ stadium and pretend they have a connection with the program. These fans chase pipe dreams and are afraid to root for a team that might not live up to expectations.

The same reason they root for the Detroit Lions, or Chicago Bears, despite not having any connection with the team other than living in the same state.

As for the attendance, I can only speak for Illinois. With the Bears (Chi-town is Bears town), Bulls, Blackhawks and 2 baseball teams (and yes, they talk about baseball even when the season's over), the little remaining media attention goes to TSISB, U of I and Northwestern. It's hard to become "the thing to do" in the area when all of that is the competition. Other MAC teams have their own similar issues.

(03-23-2012 03:59 PM)EA3 Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 03:42 PM)jmufan Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:56 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 12:38 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Marketing in the MAC is extremely difficult. Notre Dame, Michigan, MSU, Ohio St, Illinois, and Penn St are all located in our geographic region and/or draw a significant following within a 3 hour driving radius of their respective campus'. And that doesn't even mention Purdue, Indiana or Cincy.

This hurts our attendance figures significantly.

The EMU situation is our runt. They are located 20 mins from Ann Arbor and its extremely difficult for them to draw fans.

I do find it hard to believe that the Sun Belt draws more than us...but I didn't look up any numbers.

The belt draws a bit better but a lot of that is demographics. Most MAC schools sit smack dab not only near a big time program but also near some combination of professional football, hockey, or basketball.

With JMU, UVA and VT doesn't seem to bother attendance. Maybe that's because VT is 2+ hours away and UVA an hour away. I'm sure part of it is because of the big time programs, but I also wonder if marketing could better, especially word of mouth.

Could be.

I'm not ragging on VTech or Virginia...but they don't carry the fan bases of Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, or Notre Dame. These programs are associated with college football history and 100k+ stadiums. It's a pain in the rear to compete with.

I have friends who live in Kalamazoo that would rather watch Michigan play on tv than attend a WMU football game if they have the same 3 pm kickoff. I suspect it is no different with the other MAC fans on this board.

For the life of me, I don't know why a person who didn't graduate from Michigan (or Ohio St, or any other BCS school) would choose to jam themselves into a 100k+ stadium and pretend they have a connection with the program. These fans chase pipe dreams and are afraid to root for a team that might not live up to expectations.

The same reason they root for the Detroit Lions, or Chicago Bears, despite not having any connection with the team other than living in the same state.

As for the attendance, I can only speak for Illinois. With the Bears (Chi-town is Bears town), Bulls, Blackhawks and 2 baseball teams (and yes, they talk about baseball even when the season's over), the little remaining media attention goes to TSISB, U of I and Northwestern. It's hard to become "the thing to do" in the area when all of that is the competition. Other MAC teams have their own similar issues.

EDIT: re-reading your bolded point above - why do they go to Michigan games when they don't go to their alma mater's games? That I don't know.

Because everyone in the state of michigan grew up thinking Michigan was the cats meow when it came to sports. They were on tv all the time, were good, and had all the money. They competed on a national level and won. People respond to that. It sucks, but it's the truth.

I understand and agree with all of your points. I must admit, I grew up in Texas and I grew up wanting to go to UT. I moved to Virginia in 2000 and have lived here since, but I still casually root for the Longhorns. You pretty much had to pick between UT and A&M, people didn't give you a choice. I almost never heard Texas Tech mentioned, nor any "lower end" teams for that matter. Hell I lived in Houston and people barely talked about the two local schools, Rice and Houston. I only really heard about Houston because my dad was a proud alum of that school and it wasn't too far after Hakeem Olajuwon came through there and then played for the NBA Champion Rockets. I have no true affiliation with UT, but I still generally root for them unless my schools that I actually attended play them (which never happens of course).
With that being said, I know many JMU students that cared more about UVA and VT WHILE they were students and we would roll our eyes at them for their lack of loyalty for the school they're actually attending, instead of the one they were denied admission to. It's tough for us to compete with the state juggernaut VT in terms of football attention, but averaging 25k while being 1hr away from UVA and 2.5hr away from VT is definitely something worth being happy about. You will always have the people who choose to "not care" about a team just because of what conference they're in or what level they're in. Some fans honestly don't understand the difference between FBS and FCS or choose to not care. Its not Div. 2, there's actually a Div. 2 which is below FCS. I remember some JMU students saying they didnt care about going to FB games because it's not "the highest level of college football" and they would rather go with their brother to the VT game.

I do think when it comes to college teams though, you mainly have to have actually went to that school to be a genuine fan. It's not the same as a professional team which is meant for a region or a specific city. I know most UVA and VT fans throughout the state didn't go to the school themselves. My father in law is a VT fan even though his two brothers went but he didn't even go to college.
I think we have slightly less competition for sports attention than most of the midwest MAC states have to deal with. DC sports are very unpopular by most Virginians for some reason... they're very bandwagon down here and root for NY and Philly teams lately. UVA is generally not competitive in FB and VT is good except for the choking in big games which frustrates many. Other than that, there's little CFB competition down here.

I don't get how some of those WMU alums could care more about the big state school than the school they actually attended though. If some fool told me he cared more about VT than JMU when he didn't go there, I'd tell him he's an idiot.

(03-23-2012 09:36 PM)Dukes09 Wrote:  I don't get how some of those WMU alums could care more about the big state school than the school they actually attended though. If some fool told me he cared more about VT than JMU when he didn't go there, I'd tell him he's an idiot.

In Ohio, we have a state full of idiots.

(03-23-2012 10:11 PM)GFlash68 Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 09:36 PM)Dukes09 Wrote:  I don't get how some of those WMU alums could care more about the big state school than the school they actually attended though. If some fool told me he cared more about VT than JMU when he didn't go there, I'd tell him he's an idiot.

In Ohio, we have a state full of idiots.

I have several cousins that graduated from Ohio State and it always annoyed the crap out me when they put the stupid "The" in front of their school name. My response them is, dude, you have like how many other Ohio universities in your state?

As for JMU, I think JMU has a lot of potential and football is certainly showing that with the 25 thousand plus a game. And I think Dukes09 is right when he says that there really isn't a ton of competition down our way.

One issue is the culture. Down south the culture is often more college oriented and more loyal to your direct school. Up in the Midwest professional sports are more important than down south (generally speaking) and college teams tend to be more you cheer for the big state school over even your own Alma mater (sad but true). I cannot tell you how many people go home every week from a MAC school and cheer for OSU or Michigan and end up ignoring their local team. In the North East it is even more extreme where pro sports dominate all and universities of any sort tend to be more secondary (with the one real exception of Penn State). A big part of the pro/college divide is due to pro teams being in northern cities very early while down south many states did not get a pro team until later or not at all. It is no surprise that Bama is the biggest draw in Alabama and is so important in that state (and how Auburn is also important and how the rivalry there is everything) considering that there are no professional teams for them to directly attach themselves to.

(03-24-2012 06:58 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  One issue is the culture. Down south the culture is often more college oriented and more loyal to your direct school.

Question: how many USA or UAB alums (and current students) show more loyalty to Bama than they do to their school? Judging from what we saw at the GoDaddy Bowl, there are more than a few.

Although the Mac and sun belt are technically in the same level as their bcs counterparts, I know that many people view them as being on a different level. It's the same in va. Our AD chose not to bid too high on a playoff game because he was afraid that the UVA/VT game would hurt our attendance and actually used it as an excuse publicly. I personally could care less about either team as I didn't go there.

(03-24-2012 12:35 PM)Dukes09 Wrote:  Although the Mac and sun belt are technically in the same level as their bcs counterparts, I know that many people view them as being on a different level. It's the same in va. Our AD chose not to bid too high on a playoff game because he was afraid that the UVA/VT game would hurt our attendance and actually used it as an excuse publicly. I personally could care less about either team as I didn't go there.

That perception is starting to change.

With the MAC having a significant ESPN TV deal and the SBC looking to better itself with Charlotte and UT-San Antonio along with multiple bowl games they can't be viewed to be much lower at least than the Alliance and a big step up from any FCS football conference.

(03-24-2012 11:06 AM)huskiebob Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 06:58 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  One issue is the culture. Down south the culture is often more college oriented and more loyal to your direct school.

Question: how many USA or UAB alums (and current students) show more loyalty to Bama than they do to their school? Judging from what we saw at the GoDaddy Bowl, there are more than a few.

They are also both fairly to very new to football. They both will likely have about the same number of fans as most of us despite playing football for less than 20 years (and for some of us playing major college football for 60+ years).

If I were to summarize the few opinions of other JMU posters on the caazone.com jmu board (which is pretty much the main jmu forum), I would say this. Most fans want to move to FBS, but they're unsure as to how. When faced with the more realistic chances in the MAC or Sun Belt, most fans turn their nose up at that. Some say, "what the hell else is there? get off your high horse. we're not going to the ACC or Big East, just because of the FCS label put on us, so quite dreaming. you have to start a job entry level and not as an exec".
Most fans really want to see a new east coast conference form with JMU, UD, ODU, ECU, Marshall, and maybe Ohio, App State, GA Southern, etc. That doesn't exist right now and it doesn't look like ECU and Marshall are highly interested in joining with FCS move-ups (although they may be forced to realize that they have little choice at this point if they want to stay regional).
There seems to be a 50/50 split that want the CUSA merger, and some think it's stupid and not worth our time. I would say i'm barely among those in favor of the CUSA/MWC.
MOST JMU fans would rather pick the MAC before the Sun Belt because of the perception of both conferences, a better fan interest in the MAC schools compared to SB schools, and it's probably a bit more sense geographically.
There's a small contingent of fans that would rather stay in FCS forever than go to FBS because they hate the BCS system, it's obvious bias towards the power conferences and the elitist mentality, and the pointless bowl games. They like the playoff system and it is how real champions are made, not selected by a "computer". You can lose a handful of games and still win the national championship. In the BCS, you lose 1 game outside of a power conference and you can forget it.
The more I think about it, I think I wouldn't mind the MAC. I'm excited.
Do any MAC fans have some solid proof of progress in terms of the MAC's expansion plans, if there are any?
I hope Jeff Bourne has been speaking with Steinbrecher in the past.

(03-25-2012 04:13 PM)Dukes09 Wrote:  Do any MAC fans have some solid proof of progress in terms of the MAC's expansion plans, if there are any?

I hope Jeff Bourne has been speaking with Steinbrecher in the past.

-Its clear that if the MAC is going to invite any FCS schools to move up for the 2013-14 school year an invite has to go out July 1st. This goes for any CUSA/MWC or Sun Belt expansion. Clearly it won't be that much longer until the wheels turn on finding a 14th school or beyond.

-The Atlantic Ten according to a Brett McMurphy (always very accurate) report is looking at adding Butler, George Mason and VCU the three mid majors that have made the Final Four. Losing GMU and VCU would cripple the CAA's basketball conference and break up the Virginia 5 (GMU, JMU, VCU, W&M, ODU). This gives JMU a lot more incentive to take a look at a football only opportunity.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...tlantic-10

-I suppose if UMass ends up getting a call from the alliance in June the MAC could sit at 12 for a couple of years before expanding again. Where the scheduling rules are right now I think 14 is the appropriate number of schools for the MAC because you can have 6 divisional games, 2 cross division.

-Adding JMU and Appalachian State would be a nice combo for the MAC and give JMU a built in rival that fans can easily drive to along with Ohio. Both schools would bring 25k fan bases into the MAC and stay loyal to the conference over the Sun Belt and probably never have the markets making them attractive for the Alliance or Big East.

One thing I never understand is that many people argue that JMU does not fall in the Richmond or DC markets because they're 2 hours away from each city. However, UVA (2hr from DC, 1hr from RVA) and VT (4.75hr from DC, 3.75hr from RVA) are both "in those markets" according to many people. I guess BCS teams get 500 mile radius markets.