Any 13-0 team from Big East will be top 4. I mean- Houston last year was 12-0 and what were they up to in the BCS? #6. Figure that's with a division of 40,57,82,94,116- then cross division games with 81,60,106. That conference schedule was an average of 79.5. Big East in the computers will be really solid. The polls a bit tougher to predict- but I think they'd be ok.

With all do respect to you guys and the Big East, please understand where some of us are on this matter. We've been able to grow the program tremendously the last 10=15 years both as the school itself and the community. Its competing at an elite level in many sports, the Big East has certainly helped out with that for us. However the conference did not make the right moves and moves were made to it to make it unstable and a shell of its previous self. UL has always had a traditionally elite basketball program and can self sustain even as an independent if need be. The football program appears to be back on the rise, however has struggled with keeping coaches, recruits, schedule, fan growth, etc because of the conference affiliation. If we were to join the Big 12, we would get the built in strong football schedule, provide our own strong basketball schedule because of the draw we can be for tv/other elite teams for OOC games. We may take a small hit in Olympic sports because its conceivable to say the Big East is still above the Big 12 in those sports. Wouldn't say that about baseball, but many of the others.

So if you take that into consideration as a UL fan or not, you should be able to understand what is the best scenario for us to be in.

Couldn't have said it any better!

(03-20-2012 09:19 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  With all do respect to you guys and the Big East, please understand where some of us are on this matter. We've been able to grow the program tremendously the last 10=15 years both as the school itself and the community. Its competing at an elite level in many sports, the Big East has certainly helped out with that for us. However the conference did not make the right moves and moves were made to it to make it unstable and a shell of its previous self. UL has always had a traditionally elite basketball program and can self sustain even as an independent if need be. The football program appears to be back on the rise, however has struggled with keeping coaches, recruits, schedule, fan growth, etc because of the conference affiliation. If we were to join the Big 12, we would get the built in strong football schedule, provide our own strong basketball schedule because of the draw we can be for tv/other elite teams for OOC games. We may take a small hit in Olympic sports because its conceivable to say the Big East is still above the Big 12 in those sports. Wouldn't say that about baseball, but many of the others.

So if you take that into consideration as a UL fan or not, you should be able to understand what is the best scenario for us to be in.

I see you complain that the Big East did not make the right moves, but ignore the reality that at the same time the Big 12 was loosing teams like fleas off a dead dog. Nebraska, Colorado, Mizzo, aTm. Stability is not the hall mark of either league.

We have lost one FB coach and fired another. There is no hint that CCS is going anywhere. This is just unfounded fear mongering.

Until we win the Big East a couple times outright the rush to get a tougher football schedule is premature and can become a detriment to recruiting and improvement in our FB program. The Big 12 is no where near the best football conference. Probably the 4th best. It's BB league is way down the list from the Big East. It's olympic sports are down the list as well. It is not even a lateral move as an athletic league, it is a move downward.

Big 12 Football 4th, BB 5th, olympic sports 3rd = 12 score
Big East Football 5th, BB 1st, olympic sports 2nd = 8 score

So NO, this long time U of L fan does not see going to the Big 12 as the best scenario for U of L athletics. Selling out all our other sports for football is not rational nor good business. But that is just my opinion.

with all due respect, the big 12 is not stable due to one school. if that one school leaves, the vast majority of destabilizing factors go with them.

the big east is not stable due to:
a) number of schools playing the major sports
b) half the schools not playing one of the major sports
c) a large number of schools playing only one sport
d) notre dame not playing football.

if notre dame simply joined the football conference, miami, vpi, and bc probably don't leave (granted the reverse corollary uc,usf, and uofl as well as marquette and depaul probably don't join) and the big east never finds itself in the position it is in today. since that is not going to happen, you have too many schools having their own interests in one conference. that causes several times more instability than what one school can do.

i'm sorry but unless the big east grabbed some sort of grand slam football get, going undefeated in football because of the replacement teams is not going to guarantee either a 1 or 2 finish in the bcs when put against a one loss sec team or one loss b1G team or a one loss big 12 team. i'm just going to be real here- boise was taken because of their bcs ratings in the past, and houston was taken because of a quarterback who graduated this year with a coach who left for a big 12 job. it looks that both are going to be down when they come in. navy coming in almost ensures the big east won't lose its auto qualifier status. don't get me wrong- the big east is doing what it has to. however, if it was going to expand, it should have stayed east of the mississippi and considered all candidates before going well out west.

if it appears that the auto-qualifier status is going away for everyone then a big east with a down boise, down houston, down south florida isn't going to provide enough oomph should an undefeated team win the conference.

(03-20-2012 03:56 PM)ctkatz Wrote:  with all due respect, the big 12 is not stable due to one school. if that one school leaves, the vast majority of destabilizing factors go with them.

the big east is not stable due to:
a) number of schools playing the major sports
b) half the schools not playing one of the major sports
c) a large number of schools playing only one sport
d) notre dame not playing football.

if notre dame simply joined the football conference, miami, vpi, and bc probably don't leave (granted the reverse corollary uc,usf, and uofl as well as marquette and depaul probably don't join) and the big east never finds itself in the position it is in today. since that is not going to happen, you have too many schools having their own interests in one conference. that causes several times more instability than what one school can do.

i'm sorry but unless the big east grabbed some sort of grand slam football get, going undefeated in football because of the replacement teams is not going to guarantee either a 1 or 2 finish in the bcs when put against a one loss sec team or one loss b1G team or a one loss big 12 team. i'm just going to be real here- boise was taken because of their bcs ratings in the past, and houston was taken because of a quarterback who graduated this year with a coach who left for a big 12 job. it looks that both are going to be down when they come in. navy coming in almost ensures the big east won't lose its auto qualifier status. don't get me wrong- the big east is doing what it has to. however, if it was going to expand, it should have stayed east of the mississippi and considered all candidates before going well out west.

if it appears that the auto-qualifier status is going away for everyone then a big east with a down boise, down houston, down south florida isn't going to provide enough oomph should an undefeated team win the conference.

I think you're wrong. Any undefeted team will be in the top 10 in the computers. Houston with their pretty bad schedule was at a 7.75 cpu rating entering the final week. A Big East schedule is light years ahead of C-USA, so an undfeated Big East team- most likely top 5 in the computers. Polls would be the question. Also- remember top 2 isn't going to be the requirement- it's top 4. It would take a pretty tough combo to have a Big East Champ not in top 4 undefeated.

(03-20-2012 04:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I think you're wrong. Any undefeted team will be in the top 10 in the computers. Houston with their pretty bad schedule was at a 7.75 cpu rating entering the final week. A Big East schedule is light years ahead of C-USA, so an undfeated Big East team- most likely top 5 in the computers. Polls would be the question. Also- remember top 2 isn't going to be the requirement- it's top 4. It would take a pretty tough combo to have a Big East Champ not in top 4 undefeated.

It's not the computer portion of the championship formula, or whatever fancy name they slap on the process, that I have a problem with. It's the human part. The part that says just because a school is in the SEC or Big 10 their football program is somehow more relevant than schools in The Big East.

As long as coaches like Nick Saban can manipulate the system to ensure their team or teams from their conference get first consideration, the system is flawed. A flawed system, one that allows for a second team from a conference to take one of the 4 playoff spots (that is what Mike Slive is presently pushing) I have little faith that a conference like The Big East or even The ACC, has any shot. Anyone who believes that this new playoff system won't somehow be slanted in favor of The Big 10 and SEC is naive and idealistic.

There is no magic pill to fix it. The system is inherently broken and the Jim Delaneys and Mike Slives of college football, with the assistance of ESPN, want to make sure it stays that way. If they wanted a fair and equitable system they would give every conference champion a spot in the play-offs and we would all move on. Until that time beware....
CJ

(03-20-2012 03:18 PM)CubRunCard Wrote:  Big 12 Football 4th, BB 5th, olympic sports 3rd = 12 score
Big East Football 5th, BB 1st, olympic sports 2nd = 8 score

So NO, this long time U of L fan does not see going to the Big 12 as the best scenario for U of L athletics. Selling out all our other sports for football is not rational nor good business.

The Big 12 was ranked 2/3 in basketball, neck and neck with the Big East, all year long, behind only the B1G.

They were arguably #1 in football this past year, neck and neck with the SEC.

Olympic sports? Honestly, nobody cares.

Bottom line: UofL will leave for the Big 12 in an INSTANT if they are invited, as would ANY other Big East school. Because the Big 12 is clearly a better overall conference. It is not even close. The Big East has nothing like the big names of Oklahoma and Texas, nothing remotely in the same league. Those are the facts.

I just let CubRunCard talk. Most Louisville fans do not agree with him. However, Louisville will thrive where ever we go or stay.

(03-20-2012 06:28 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-20-2012 04:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I think you're wrong. Any undefeted team will be in the top 10 in the computers. Houston with their pretty bad schedule was at a 7.75 cpu rating entering the final week. A Big East schedule is light years ahead of C-USA, so an undfeated Big East team- most likely top 5 in the computers. Polls would be the question. Also- remember top 2 isn't going to be the requirement- it's top 4. It would take a pretty tough combo to have a Big East Champ not in top 4 undefeated.

It's not the computer portion of the championship formula, or whatever fancy name they slap on the process, that I have a problem with. It's the human part. The part that says just because a school is in the SEC or Big 10 their football program is somehow more relevant than schools in The Big East.

As long as coaches like Nick Saban can manipulate the system to ensure their team or teams from their conference get first consideration, the system is flawed. A flawed system, one that allows for a second team from a conference to take one of the 4 playoff spots (that is what Mike Slive is presently pushing) I have little faith that a conference like The Big East or even The ACC, has any shot. Anyone who believes that this new playoff system won't somehow be slanted in favor of The Big 10 and SEC is naive and idealistic.

There is no magic pill to fix it. The system is inherently broken and the Jim Delaneys and Mike Slives of college football, with the assistance of ESPN, want to make sure it stays that way. If they wanted a fair and equitable system they would give every conference champion a spot in the play-offs and we would all move on. Until that time beware....
CJ

I bet you would have no issue if two Big East teams got #1 seeds in the NCAA tournament.

I see what you are saying, but Alabama and LSU probably were the two best teams in the country this year. I don't like the fact that you can play in the BCS championship game even if you don't win your conference, but those are the current rules. There actually is a lot of support for only conference champions making the 4 team playoff.

Under the current rules, it is my opinion that the BCS got it right this year.

(03-20-2012 06:56 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I just let CubRunCard talk. Most Louisville fans do not agree with him. However, Louisville will thrive where ever we go or stay.

We've had our rows in the recent months, Wilkie, but I know you're a good poster. And whatever happens with Louisville will happen, and I'll cheer you on and wish you the very best of luck regardless. I just think you'd be better off in all sports if you remain in the Big East.

(03-20-2012 08:58 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-16-2012 03:31 PM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  

(03-16-2012 01:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 04:53 PM)GeminiShamrock Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 03:05 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  West Virginia doesn't fit into the Big 12, Louisville wouldn't fit into the Big 12, and BYU certainly wouldn't fit into the Big 12, but no one cares about that anymore, they only care about making any move they can pull off in order to make more money.

I disagree in this regard: They're in the mountains and basins region, and would've been a good replacement for Colorado in all sports. But that's the only reason I disagree with you on Brigham Young.

OP: Would I rather you stay in the Big East? Of course. Will I understand if you leave for another conference? Of course? The point I've been making is this: Is it really worth being Texas and Oklahoma's b*tch in football? I think not. You have a better chance in football here. Just gotta get good recruits who can fit into the system you have. (Some will disagree with me, and that's fine. I really don't care. I'm just putting my two cents in on this.)

Lolly Popp sounds like he's tasted sour grapes, GS. As for being anyone's b!tch, you should know that WVU's last 2 games against Oklahoma ended 41-27 & 48-28 in the Mountaineers' favor...

Just for clarification's sake, I was referring to Louisville, not West Virginia. You and your fellow Mountaineers should do a decent job in the Big 12, and you should definitely be competing for Big 12 titles in the next year or two. (The only problem you may have to worry about is travel for your fans.)

WVU's fanbase is scattered all across the country, GS, and there are pretty good sized WVU alumni association chapters in Houston and Dallas. WVU playing in the Big XII will allow many WVU fans the opportunity to see games without traveling all the way to Morgantown. I think you'll be surprised to see how many Mountaineer fans show up at away games...

I didn't think of that. Nevermind.

(03-20-2012 06:28 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  There is no magic pill to fix it. The system is inherently broken and the Jim Delaneys and Mike Slives of college football, with the assistance of ESPN, want to make sure it stays that way. If they wanted a fair and equitable system they would give every conference champion a spot in the play-offs and we would all move on. Until that time beware....

Let's face it: Giving every conference champion a spot in the playoffs (and nobody else) is only "fair and equitable" if the conferences are relatively equal in quality. E.g., if there was a playoff system that admitted only the 11 conference champions, that would mean that a team like Tulane could make the playoffs by beating out teams like UTEP, Marshall, Tulsa, and Rice. On the other hand, a team like LSU could only make the playoffs if it beat out teams like Alabama, Florida, Auburn, and Arkansas.

That would hardly be "fair", since one team's path to the playoffs would obviously be far easier than the other's. The brutal fact of the matter is that the 3rd place team in a conference like the SEC often really is better, hence more deserving of a playoff bid, than the best team in C-USA, MWC, WAC, or yes, the Big East.

Also, why should the B1G and SEC help create a system that divides football money up evenly among all conferences, when their schools generate far more fan interest, and hence media dollars? That makes no sense. Such a system would in effect be a socialistic welfare system, whereby the SEC and B1G subsidize and support less-attractive conferences.

(03-20-2012 07:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-20-2012 06:28 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  There is no magic pill to fix it. The system is inherently broken and the Jim Delaneys and Mike Slives of college football, with the assistance of ESPN, want to make sure it stays that way. If they wanted a fair and equitable system they would give every conference champion a spot in the play-offs and we would all move on. Until that time beware....

Let's face it: Giving every conference champion a spot in the playoffs (and nobody else) is only "fair and equitable" if the conferences are relatively equal in quality. E.g., if there was a playoff system that admitted only the 11 conference champions, that would mean that a team like Tulane could make the playoffs by beating out teams like UTEP, Marshall, Tulsa, and Rice. On the other hand, a team like LSU could only make the playoffs if it beat out teams like Alabama, Florida, Auburn, and Arkansas.

That would hardly be "fair", since one team's path to the playoffs would obviously be far easier than the other's. The brutal fact of the matter is that the 3rd place team in a conference like the SEC often really is better, hence more deserving of a playoff bid, than the best team in C-USA, MWC, WAC, or yes, the Big East.

Also, why should the B1G and SEC help create a system that divides football money up evenly among all conferences, when their schools generate far more fan interest, and hence media dollars? That makes no sense. Such a system would in effect be a socialistic welfare system, whereby the SEC and B1G subsidize and support less-attractive conferences.

Last I checked, unless if they've changed course since then, the B1G and the SEC were actually in favor of a playoff system. I could be wrong on that though. *shrugs*

(03-14-2012 10:06 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:59 AM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. I think we'll know by the fall. Even if the AQ goes away it is possible that the Big East will maintain some sort of equal footing with the other five AQ conferences. Only time will tell.

I hope you are right but preliminary reports don't look promising. Do you really see The Big East champ ever being able to take the spot of The Big 12, Big 10, SEC or PAC 12 winner. I don't include The ACC because they won't have the schedule strength to push their way in either.

I may be wrong. I hope I am. The fact Delaney and Slive are pushing something isn't good for The Big East.
CJ

The Big East has always had four + OOC games. Don't blame your conference for teams like Louisville playing a cream puff OOC schedule and losing to teams like FIU and Marshall.

It irks me when Big East fans who want to go to another conference act like they play a schedule no one respects like non AQ teams do. If a Big East team got out and ran the table in conference and scheduled a few high profile teams like USC, Ohio St, and Wisconsin you would be right up there with with the rest of them.

Just look at your teams OOC last season there are Sun Belt teams who had a harder schedule than this.

Murray St won 21-9 (not even sure if this team is even FCS)
FIU Sun Belt lost 24-17 (8-5 with some bad losses like Duke and easy wins)
Kentucky won 24-17 (5-7 with only two wins vs AQ teams)
Marshall lost 13-17 (7-6 Conference USA with a weak schedule)
North Carolina lost 7-14 (7-6 record in the ACC with a weak schedule)

The human voters don't look ill on any Big East teams because of the conference they look Ill because teams like Louisville play five games they should win easily and manage to lose 2-3 of them and then have an just average conference play season. If you guys played in the Big 12 with that OOC schedule you still would not get any respect.

It's okay for Alabama to play a Murray St type team because they are destined to face at least two top ten teams every year. I don't see USC out scheduling UC Davis they schedule teams like Syracuse as an easy win.

Guess it's time We put Troy on the schedule!

(03-21-2012 07:12 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 10:06 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:59 AM)3601 Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 06:06 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The problem is, with removal of the AQ, teams not in The Big 12, PAC, SEC or Big 10 are being relegated to college football's minor league.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. I think we'll know by the fall. Even if the AQ goes away it is possible that the Big East will maintain some sort of equal footing with the other five AQ conferences. Only time will tell.

I hope you are right but preliminary reports don't look promising. Do you really see The Big East champ ever being able to take the spot of The Big 12, Big 10, SEC or PAC 12 winner. I don't include The ACC because they won't have the schedule strength to push their way in either.

I may be wrong. I hope I am. The fact Delaney and Slive are pushing something isn't good for The Big East.
CJ

The Big East has always had four + OOC games. Don't blame your conference for teams like Louisville playing a cream puff OOC schedule and losing to teams like FIU and Marshall.

It irks me when Big East fans who want to go to another conference act like they play a schedule no one respects like non AQ teams do. If a Big East team got out and ran the table in conference and scheduled a few high profile teams like USC, Ohio St, and Wisconsin you would be right up there with with the rest of them.

Just look at your teams OOC last season there are Sun Belt teams who had a harder schedule than this.

Murray St won 21-9 (not even sure if this team is even FCS)
FIU Sun Belt lost 24-17 (8-5 with some bad losses like Duke and easy wins)
Kentucky won 24-17 (5-7 with only two wins vs AQ teams)
Marshall lost 13-17 (7-6 Conference USA with a weak schedule)
North Carolina lost 7-14 (7-6 record in the ACC with a weak schedule)

How cute, yet another fan not knowing anything about our OOC schedules.....you do know Georgia was on that schedule previously, and we've had bail outs from a few teams in the recent past from BCS conferences forcing us to scramble....but no you wouldn't know this because you're just a newbie on here who hasn't read the numerous threads/posts about this topic in the past.

Get lost....

(03-21-2012 07:31 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Guess it's time We put Troy on the schedule!

Well said and that is all thats left to be done.

The thing is- with a 8 game conference schedule- Louisville last year would have not played either FIU or Marhsall. You get rid of that- you're left with FCS game(that's not changing), Kentucky, North Carolina, then FIU/Marshall. It makes the OOC schedule look a lot better.