(03-22-2012 11:09 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 04:59 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 04:19 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 03:48 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Roethlisberger, Manning, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brady, Brady, Brad Johnson (22 TD's, 6 picks), Brady, Dilfer, Warner, Elway, Elway, Favre, Aikman. I could keep going, but you get the idea. The chance of winning the SB without a great QB is extremely low.

You just named 4 of those top QBs that were available to every team in the league, two for more than one round. And that doesn't count Favre, Dilfer and Johnson who were picked via trade (or FA or whatever). Rodgers went late first round, Roethlisberger went mid-first round.

So finding those QBs is far from impossible.

Then there's the other side, and you have guys like Delhomme, Gannon, Chandler and McNabb who get there, and can even make it close.

firs thing, don't lump mcnabb in with delhomme. For awhile there mcnabb was a hall of fame QB. He was simply amazing, but kept getting screwed by his team.

I like McNabb, but lots of people around here don't. So I try to talk about him understatedly.

Quote:and yeah you're right, you can find great QB's later on in the draft, guess it isn't as hard as I thought. Problem is, if you commit to tebow you have to wait for that QB to fall to you and then risk a QB controversy.

IMO, elway had very few moves to make. Sure, he could move forward with Tebow and not win anything until either upgrading his D and skill positions or waiting for an all world QB to fall to him. Or he could go for Manning and hope he could give him enough weapons to work with.

That's a legit point. It's about patience. Elway is in a tough spot b/c a QB can bloom his 3rd year...but if he doesn't, you have to start over. My opinion is that you get the other pieces together during that time.

I just think Elway and Fox handled it poorly. If you don't give Tebow a chance, then you waste a 1st round pick on the bench, and still keep the myth alive while fans (your customers) remain discontent.

Better to cultivate it and give it your best shot, and draft for the cast around him. If it doesn't work, the fans know that and willingly move on to the next QB. And that might be a Flynn from FA, or finding the next Favre or Brees. Before all this got really going, I thought they should have seen if Plummer was interested in coming back.

I think talent exists, but NFL rushes too many QBs (again, look at Brees, Gannon or Beueurlein) instead of developing them. They also don't always give them a system to work in. The latter is hard w/ FA and injuries, but still you gotta work w/ your talent.

mostly agree with that. A lot of teams don't know how to blow it up in order to start from scratch. I'm not saying I love the idea of signing a 36 yr old QB with major injury concerns, to a big contract, but I think if you have cap space and believe the conference is weak (which it is), going for it might not be the worst option. But yeah, getting other pieces while waiting for a different QB is certainly a valid move

I guess no one picked the Broncos!!!

(03-27-2012 10:48 AM)HoustonCougarNation Wrote:  I guess no one picked the Broncos!!!

When I created the poll, they hadn't even been mentioned by anyone as a possibility.

Oh, and Rickheel picked them.

Rickheel got lucky with a shot in the dark...

Post #33.

Titans or Broncos.

My bad!!!

(03-21-2012 01:59 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 01:27 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  He understands that Tim Tebow does not give him that chance, but (healthy) peyton manning does. In my mind that's what it boils down to.

Yes, that's his perception. I think he's wrong, b/c I don't think Manning has enough talent around him.

Quote: Is elway a great businessman? no. Is he a great executive? No. But this is the right move, because with Tebow they'd never be bad enough to get the chance to draft Luck or RGIII

Then you find a gem like Brady (or Brees) or you build a team like the 2000-1 Ravens.

curious what we think about this now. Peyton is having a great season and the broncos are 9-3. However, the AFC is extremely watered down and the broncos are far from a sure thing. That being said, it's pretty obvious that sticking with Tebow would've been a terrible decision. So in hindsight did Elway make the right move? I guess we probably need more time to have clear hindsight

(12-03-2012 02:46 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 01:59 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 01:27 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  He understands that Tim Tebow does not give him that chance, but (healthy) peyton manning does. In my mind that's what it boils down to.

Yes, that's his perception. I think he's wrong, b/c I don't think Manning has enough talent around him.

Quote: Is elway a great businessman? no. Is he a great executive? No. But this is the right move, because with Tebow they'd never be bad enough to get the chance to draft Luck or RGIII

Then you find a gem like Brady (or Brees) or you build a team like the 2000-1 Ravens.

curious what we think about this now. Peyton is having a great season and the broncos are 9-3. However, the AFC is extremely watered down and the broncos are far from a sure thing. That being said, it's pretty obvious that sticking with Tebow would've been a terrible decision. So in hindsight did Elway make the right move? I guess we probably need more time to have clear hindsight

With Manning on pace for POY, yeah I admit Elway did the right thing.

" sticking with Tebow would've been a terrible decision. "

I don't know how we can know that for sure.

i picked the chiefs

(03-20-2012 09:44 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-19-2012 06:48 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is a pointless article. i didn't say elway was a good businessman, just that he's a businessman. I know you'll find a way to disagree with this, but the whole point of owning a football team (any team for that matter) is to win a SB.

Tell that to Bidwell. But, is this a business, or a competition? You've flipped positions now.

Quote: Put aside your feelings for Elway and tell me that you really think a Tebow-lead Broncos team could have a chance to win it all.

I never thought Dilfer would win a Super Bowl. Nevertheless, there are plenty of teams out there w/ QB's who aren't good enough to win it all. They didn't drop a budding superstar to chase Peyton.

Building a SB calibre team takes strategy. I think Elway blew that.

Quote: Every fan and every analyst and all the team personnel can agree on this. you're the only dissenter

Heh. Not exactly stiff competition.

Would you say you got this wrong, or very very wrong? (note: i understand there are no degrees of wrong) If Tebow is a budding superstar, then every team in the league other than the Broncos and Seahawks, made a huge mistake

(01-20-2014 05:42 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  Would you say you got this wrong, or very very wrong? (note: i understand there are no degrees of wrong) If Tebow is a budding superstar, then every team in the league other than the Broncos and Seahawks, made a huge mistake

Well, he already admitted he was wrong just two posts above, and that was over one year ago, so I'm not sure why you're calling him out now. Did you forget that you called Peyton "the lesser Manning" earlier in this thread (presumably talking about Eli, who gave us a football representation of the Obamacare rollout this season, throwing one INT for every person enrolled so far)?

And, yes, I said Peyton should go to Arizona, because his only competition there would be the 49ers. Oops.

(01-20-2014 05:42 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(03-20-2012 09:44 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-19-2012 06:48 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  this is a pointless article. i didn't say elway was a good businessman, just that he's a businessman. I know you'll find a way to disagree with this, but the whole point of owning a football team (any team for that matter) is to win a SB.

Tell that to Bidwell. But, is this a business, or a competition? You've flipped positions now.

Quote: Put aside your feelings for Elway and tell me that you really think a Tebow-lead Broncos team could have a chance to win it all.

I never thought Dilfer would win a Super Bowl. Nevertheless, there are plenty of teams out there w/ QB's who aren't good enough to win it all. They didn't drop a budding superstar to chase Peyton.

Building a SB calibre team takes strategy. I think Elway blew that.

Quote: Every fan and every analyst and all the team personnel can agree on this. you're the only dissenter

Heh. Not exactly stiff competition.

Would you say you got this wrong, or very very wrong? (note: i understand there are no degrees of wrong) If Tebow is a budding superstar, then every team in the league other than the Broncos and Seahawks, made a huge mistake

Yeah, got it wrong. They were in the hunt for two years. Does that happen w/ Tebow?

I don't know.

I do think the Jags should have picked up Tebow.