(03-06-2012 11:00 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  Swofford has been commissioner of the ACC since 1997. Name one major sport where the ACC is better now than they were in 1997.


I'll never be satisfied with anything John Swofford does. He, while AD at UNC, deliberately tried to cripple Clemson's athletic program with an extra year of probation in the 1980's in a failed attempt to eliminate competition for UNC. He did so under the guise of "protecting the integrity of the ACC", none of the allegations involved any kind of academic fraud. UNC is currently awaiting a ruling on their NCAA sanctions for violations much like the ones Clemson was penalized for, with the exception there IS academic fraud involved. Care to take bets he doesn't support an additional year for his precious sheep?

Swofford was also a key player in getting the ACC baseball tournament moved away from Greenville, SC because it was "an unfair home field advantage for Clemson" In the 13 years before the tournament was played in Greenville it averaged around 11,500 attendance, with the best year being 22,638 in Durham. In the 9 years it was in Greenville it averaged around 38,600 attendance, with the worst year being 30,006. Greenville is 30 miles from Clemson. The first year after being moved from Clemson where was the tournament held? Durham, NC. Home of Duke and 15 miles from UNC. Nah...no homefield advantage there was it? BTW...attendance for the last game in Greenville was 42,659. The next year in Durham it was 22,145. A 20k drop in attendance is great business sense isn't it?

I wouldn't take a leak on John Swofford if he were on fire, and you'll be hard pressed to find ANY Clemson fan that even comes close to supporting ANYTHING he has done as ACC Commissioner.

Thanks for the response. I had heard the story about Swofford pushing for harsher sanctions against Clemson in the past when he was AD at UNC. I suppose I didn't realize the severity of it. Of course, as a newcomer, I've got a lot to learn about the ACC.

Moving the ACC baseball tournament is perplexing. How good was Clemson's record in Greenville?

Also, how did Swofford become commissioner despite his apparent bias?

(03-06-2012 12:57 PM)ndlutz Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 11:00 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  Swofford has been commissioner of the ACC since 1997. Name one major sport where the ACC is better now than they were in 1997.


I'll never be satisfied with anything John Swofford does. He, while AD at UNC, deliberately tried to cripple Clemson's athletic program with an extra year of probation in the 1980's in a failed attempt to eliminate competition for UNC. He did so under the guise of "protecting the integrity of the ACC", none of the allegations involved any kind of academic fraud. UNC is currently awaiting a ruling on their NCAA sanctions for violations much like the ones Clemson was penalized for, with the exception there IS academic fraud involved. Care to take bets he doesn't support an additional year for his precious sheep?

Swofford was also a key player in getting the ACC baseball tournament moved away from Greenville, SC because it was "an unfair home field advantage for Clemson" In the 13 years before the tournament was played in Greenville it averaged around 11,500 attendance, with the best year being 22,638 in Durham. In the 9 years it was in Greenville it averaged around 38,600 attendance, with the worst year being 30,006. Greenville is 30 miles from Clemson. The first year after being moved from Clemson where was the tournament held? Durham, NC. Home of Duke and 15 miles from UNC. Nah...no homefield advantage there was it? BTW...attendance for the last game in Greenville was 42,659. The next year in Durham it was 22,145. A 20k drop in attendance is great business sense isn't it?

I wouldn't take a leak on John Swofford if he were on fire, and you'll be hard pressed to find ANY Clemson fan that even comes close to supporting ANYTHING he has done as ACC Commissioner.

Thanks for the response. I had heard the story about Swofford pushing for harsher sanctions against Clemson in the past when he was AD at UNC. I suppose I didn't realize the severity of it. Of course, as a newcomer, I've got a lot to learn about the ACC.

Moving the ACC baseball tournament is perplexing. How good was Clemson's record in Greenville?

Also, how did Swofford become commissioner despite his apparent bias?

The bias isn't as apparent if you aren't looking at every decision through orange and purple glasses.

I don't think Swofford is purposefully doing things to hurt Clemson. You can't convince Clemson fans of that though. I understand the hate from his comments when he was AD at UNC but that was a very long time ago and really doesn't matter to anyone else.

The thing about moving tournaments etc, the Presidents vote on those matters so it wasn't Swofford out there moving things against the will of the membership.

I'm sure having the basketball tournament in Atlanta this year is somehow part of Swoffords evil plan as well....I'm just not looking hard enough for the connection.

(03-06-2012 11:27 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  59-38 35-19-1

14 ACC Championships - 5 ACC Championships

Schools that have won ACC Football Championships since UNC's last:

Clemson (7)
Maryland (4)
Duke
Virginia (2)
Georgia Tech (3)
FSU (12) *note* was not a member for 11 of the 31 year time frame
Virginia Tech (4) *note* was not a member for 24 of the 31 year time frame

Don't forget Wake's ACC football championship in 2006.

Wait, wait, wait. The tournament was moved from Greenville to Durham in the mid-90s! That's almost 20 years ago! And before Swofford was even commissioner!

The ACC tournament set all kinds of attendance records over the past few years in Jacksonville, pulling in almost 70,000 at one point, despite the stadium being pretty meh. Then, the conference got a good offer to go to Greensboro for a year and then a three-year deal to go to MYRTLE BEACH! Wanna know why? Those stadiums and organizations gave a better guarantee.

Using your logic, this is obviously a conspiracy against the sweet and pure Seminoles by those dastardly Tigers.

Its apparent that I have a lot to learn over this next year. I'm definitely enjoying the Clemson-UNC exchange in a lot of these threads. Wants to see more of this ribbing tho.

I'd sure be happy with a 3-5M increase per school. It's still behind the rest of the pack, but it's certainly closer than where the league was before. Haven't read the interview yet. Will get on that ASAP.

(03-06-2012 01:14 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  The thing about moving tournaments etc, the Presidents vote on those matters so it wasn't Swofford out there moving things against the will of the membership.

This is just the down-side of democracy - majority rules, sometimes despite logic, fairness, or even the greater good.

Given that the ACC now spans from Miami to Boston (and will soon include upstate NY), the approximate geographic center of the conference is... the Research Triangle area in NC. I know that doesn't sit well with Clemson fans, and personally I think the right & fair thing to do would have been to "throw them a bone" and keep the baseball tournament in Greenville, SC.

I expect to hear Syracuse fans griping about the basketball tournament if it isn't in NYC. If Miami & FSU ever actually play each other in the football championship game, they may wish it was back in Florida. It is what it is.

(03-06-2012 11:00 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  Swofford has been commissioner of the ACC since 1997. Name one major sport where the ACC is better now than they were in 1997.


I'll never be satisfied with anything John Swofford does. He, while AD at UNC, deliberately tried to cripple Clemson's athletic program with an extra year of probation in the 1980's in a failed attempt to eliminate competition for UNC. He did so under the guise of "protecting the integrity of the ACC", none of the allegations involved any kind of academic fraud. UNC is currently awaiting a ruling on their NCAA sanctions for violations much like the ones Clemson was penalized for, with the exception there IS academic fraud involved. Care to take bets he doesn't support an additional year for his precious sheep?

Swofford was also a key player in getting the ACC baseball tournament moved away from Greenville, SC because it was "an unfair home field advantage for Clemson" In the 13 years before the tournament was played in Greenville it averaged around 11,500 attendance, with the best year being 22,638 in Durham. In the 9 years it was in Greenville it averaged around 38,600 attendance, with the worst year being 30,006. Greenville is 30 miles from Clemson. The first year after being moved from Clemson where was the tournament held? Durham, NC. Home of Duke and 15 miles from UNC. Nah...no homefield advantage there was it? BTW...attendance for the last game in Greenville was 42,659. The next year in Durham it was 22,145. A 20k drop in attendance is great business sense isn't it?

I wouldn't take a leak on John Swofford if he were on fire, and you'll be hard pressed to find ANY Clemson fan that even comes close to supporting ANYTHING he has done as ACC Commissioner.

I was in attendance for several games of last year's ACC baseball tournament in Durham and I will say that the UVA fans far outrepresented any other school. Total attendance for the tournament was around 44,000.

It appears that the years when the tournament was in Jacksonville, FL were the best for attendance, including a record 73,215 in 2006: http://jacksonville.com/sports/college/f...myrtle_bea

The ACC Presidents (or was it AD's?) voted to have the ACCCG in Florida despite the overwhelming logic that Charlotte was the best place for the game. And every now and then, the game should move to DC/Baltimore (just MHO)

Yet, the Swoff took the heat -- that's what good leaders do, however.

As for the "crown jewel", I suspect if NYC wants the ACC tourney, it'll be there once (or twice) in a 10-year rotation, but it'll always be primary in Greensboro or Charlotte b/c NC is the geographic center of the footprint.

(03-06-2012 02:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 01:14 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  The thing about moving tournaments etc, the Presidents vote on those matters so it wasn't Swofford out there moving things against the will of the membership.

This is just the down-side of democracy - majority rules, sometimes despite logic, fairness, or even the greater good.

Given that the ACC now spans from Miami to Boston (and will soon include upstate NY), the approximate geographic center of the conference is... the Research Triangle area in NC. I know that doesn't sit well with Clemson fans, and personally I think the right & fair thing to do would have been to "throw them a bone" and keep the baseball tournament in Greenville, SC.

I expect to hear Syracuse fans griping about the basketball tournament if it isn't in NYC. If Miami & FSU ever actually play each other in the football championship game, they may wish it was back in Florida. It is what it is.

SU knows the deal. The ACC tourney is going to be in NC not NYC. The A10 is moving its tourney to Brooklyn. Hard to imagine a third tourney in NYC. The Pru in Newark may be the best building that could be available. Have't been there yet, but I can't believe that staging a tourney there would have the same atmosphere as MSG.

In general, the basketball tourney, every ten years, should go....

Charlotte - 3
Greensboro - 3
NYC - 2 (I doubt MSG kicks the Big East out, maybe the new Nets arena in Brooklyn?)
Atlanta - 1
DC - 1

The ACC is at 13mil per school now. I'd like to see it get up to about 17mil, which is what the SEC has now.

(03-06-2012 12:57 PM)ndlutz Wrote:  Moving the ACC baseball tournament is perplexing. How good was Clemson's record in Greenville?

4 championships and 6 total championship game appearances compared to 4 championships and 6 total championship game appearances before the tourney got moved. Thing is, up until a few years ago Clemson had the 3rd longest consecutive NCAA regional appearance streak ever, so it's not like Clemson wasn't at or near the top when it came to ACC baseball to begin with.

Quote:Also, how did Swofford become commissioner despite his apparent bias?

You have to remember that for many, many years there was a voting bloc in the ACC where whatever UNC decided their lapdogs went blindly along with. Thankfully that's not so much the case anymore.

(03-06-2012 02:13 PM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  Wait, wait, wait. The tournament was moved from Greenville to Durham in the mid-90s! That's almost 20 years ago! And before Swofford was even commissioner!

Swofford once again led the charge.

The ACC baseball tournament lost money every single year of it's existance, even the three years it was held in Clemson until they went to Greenville. It cleared a profit every year it was in Greenville, then didn't clear a profit again until it moved to Jacksonville. Nine years of negative income. These are the people we want negotiating our TV contracts?

Quote:Then, the conference got a good offer to go to Greensboro for a year and then a three-year deal to go to MYRTLE BEACH! Wanna know why? Those stadiums and organizations gave a better guarantee.

The ACC backed out of the Myrtle Beach deal. Like the NAACP they want to get involved in South Carolina's internal politics.

Personally I'd be more than happy if the Tourney was held in Charlotte most years. Seems like the most "Central" location. Its really an 8 hour drive down 79 & 77 for me and relatively close to just about everyone minus, Miami, Syracuse, and BC.

(03-06-2012 02:58 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Personally I'd be more than happy if the Tourney was held in Charlotte most years. Seems like the most "Central" location. Its really an 8 hour drive down 79 & 77 for me and relatively close to just about everyone minus, Miami, Syracuse, and BC.

Syracuse has direct air service to Charlotte, Atlanta and DC. Greensboro requires a stop.

(03-06-2012 02:43 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 02:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 01:14 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  The thing about moving tournaments etc, the Presidents vote on those matters so it wasn't Swofford out there moving things against the will of the membership.

This is just the down-side of democracy - majority rules, sometimes despite logic, fairness, or even the greater good.

Given that the ACC now spans from Miami to Boston (and will soon include upstate NY), the approximate geographic center of the conference is... the Research Triangle area in NC. I know that doesn't sit well with Clemson fans, and personally I think the right & fair thing to do would have been to "throw them a bone" and keep the baseball tournament in Greenville, SC.

I expect to hear Syracuse fans griping about the basketball tournament if it isn't in NYC. If Miami & FSU ever actually play each other in the football championship game, they may wish it was back in Florida. It is what it is.

SU knows the deal. The ACC tourney is going to be in NC not NYC. The A10 is moving its tourney to Brooklyn. Hard to imagine a third tourney in NYC. The Pru in Newark may be the best building that could be available. Have't been there yet, but I can't believe that staging a tourney there would have the same atmosphere as MSG.

The ACC tournaments get bid out. The bball tournament is in Atlanta this year. They do move around and aren't always in NC. There is a chance I guess that NYC could host it one day. It is whoever offers up the money.

A lot of the problem with the football championship game location was due to scheduling conflicts in Charlotte when the game was first created. Jacksonville won but was also hosting the loser of the champ game in the Gator bowl as well. It wasn't well thought out by anyone. Atlanta was already out due to the SEC CG. So the neutral site options were really only Florida locations or DC. I think the success of FSU and Miami in the early 2000s caused the Florida locations to win out.

(03-07-2012 01:03 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  The ACC tournaments get bid out. The bball tournament is in Atlanta this year. They do move around and aren't always in NC. There is a chance I guess that NYC could host it one day. It is whoever offers up the money.

A lot of the problem with the football championship game location was due to scheduling conflicts in Charlotte when the game was first created. Jacksonville won but was also hosting the loser of the champ game in the Gator bowl as well. It wasn't well thought out by anyone. Atlanta was already out due to the SEC CG. So the neutral site options were really only Florida locations or DC. I think the success of FSU and Miami in the early 2000s caused the Florida locations to win out.

I didn't realize it was bid out. I can't see MSG making a bid as they are very pleased with the BE tourney. The A10 now has a five year deal with the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn starting next season, so that venue is tied up until 2018. The Pru in Newark would be the only potential major league venue that could bid for now.

(03-06-2012 11:00 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  Swofford has been commissioner of the ACC since 1997. Name one major sport where the ACC is better now than they were in 1997.


I'll never be satisfied with anything John Swofford does. He, while AD at UNC, deliberately tried to cripple Clemson's athletic program with an extra year of probation in the 1980's in a failed attempt to eliminate competition for UNC. He did so under the guise of "protecting the integrity of the ACC", none of the allegations involved any kind of academic fraud. UNC is currently awaiting a ruling on their NCAA sanctions for violations much like the ones Clemson was penalized for, with the exception there IS academic fraud involved. Care to take bets he doesn't support an additional year for his precious sheep?

Swofford was also a key player in getting the ACC baseball tournament moved away from Greenville, SC because it was "an unfair home field advantage for Clemson" In the 13 years before the tournament was played in Greenville it averaged around 11,500 attendance, with the best year being 22,638 in Durham. In the 9 years it was in Greenville it averaged around 38,600 attendance, with the worst year being 30,006. Greenville is 30 miles from Clemson. The first year after being moved from Clemson where was the tournament held? Durham, NC. Home of Duke and 15 miles from UNC. Nah...no homefield advantage there was it? BTW...attendance for the last game in Greenville was 42,659. The next year in Durham it was 22,145. A 20k drop in attendance is great business sense isn't it?

I wouldn't take a leak on John Swofford if he were on fire, and you'll be hard pressed to find ANY Clemson fan that even comes close to supporting ANYTHING he has done as ACC Commissioner.

You do realize that Swofford was on the NCAA committee on Infractions in the 1980's. And when he suggested the extra penalties for the Tigers that that committee moved away from their investigation of Clemson and turned their attention to SMU.


tournament information

(03-07-2012 06:18 PM)XLance Wrote:  You do realize that Swofford was on the NCAA committee on Infractions in the 1980's. And when he suggested the extra penalties for the Tigers that that committee moved away from their investigation of Clemson and turned their attention to SMU.

Not sure where you are getting your information, but the ACC acted AFTER the NCAA ruling in 1982.

Besides, SMU had the NCAA's full attention considering the fact that they were on probation 5 times in the period between 1974 and 1985. Pretty sure that the NCAA investigators kept an office on the Hilltop.

(03-06-2012 02:46 PM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  In general, the basketball tourney, every ten years, should go....

Charlotte - 3
Greensboro - 3
NYC - 2 (I doubt MSG kicks the Big East out, maybe the new Nets arena in Brooklyn?)
Atlanta - 1
DC - 1

I think MSG's contract with the Big East basketball tourney is over in 2016. Perhaps the ACC might get an opening then.
I think if the ACC head office had more business minded individuals in it, they would try and leverage the basketball tournament to get more publicity to generate more income for the ACC. Perhaps when (or if) it ever launches a cable network then perhaps it might be more important to hold the tournament in New York city (to get the publicity) but until some new ACC offering happens, then it is probably good to keep rotating the tournament.