(02-23-2012 11:43 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Oh, I honestly thought they were the UNMS because isn't there one in the MWC named NMU?

The school in Las Cruces is New Mexico State University (NMSU)

The school in Albuquerque is the University of New Mexico (UNM)

I think any of the three of Georgia Southern, Georgia State, or App State would all bring more to the conference than they would take away. With that said, adding all three at once could take away from the conference due to the influx of "startup FBS schools"

(02-23-2012 11:56 AM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  Looking at it from the standpoint of just brinigng in mouths to feed will keep us in a state of stagnation and regeression. Right now we are not getting anything of significance from our tv deal. Staying as the unit we currently have will not better that situation unless two of the 10 immediately grow into top 35 programs. We need to look to prosper. In order to do that, we must look to add programs. Unless we can lure some CUSA teams to the SBC, we will have to look for teams that have not maxed their value and appear to be in a position to grow beyond leaps and bounds. There are three programs currently pursuing FBS football or looking to pursue FBS football that fit that criteria - UTSA, GA State and UNCC. Get them in and allow them to put their resources into the SBC. They will be more than just mouths to feed.

At the risk of being repetitive.....no I've gone beyond risk and am sitting squarely in the middle of Repeatville....enabling Ga State will hurt us in the long run. Once they've completed the transition to FBS they will become a target of expansion by other conferences and that will happen before they can bring any substantial economic benefit to the the conference. And then what do we have? Another FBS program in the SE region with a better conference affiliation competing with us for recruits and TV money.
At least App State and Ga Southern would have to have some extended success before they could overcome their markets and get lured away.
UTSA and TSU are already going to be FBS and they offer good markets and fanbases. They make much more sense.

(02-23-2012 11:56 AM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  Looking at it from the standpoint of just brinigng in mouths to feed will keep us in a state of stagnation and regeression. Right now we are not getting anything of significance from our tv deal. Staying as the unit we currently have will not better that situation unless two of the 10 immediately grow into top 35 programs. We need to look to prosper. In order to do that, we must look to add programs. Unless we can lure some CUSA teams to the SBC, we will have to look for teams that have not maxed their value and appear to be in a position to grow beyond leaps and bounds. There are three programs currently pursuing FBS football or looking to pursue FBS football that fit that criteria - UTSA, GA State and UNCC. Get them in and allow them to put their resources into the SBC. They will be more than just mouths to feed.

I have been saying this for quite awhile. Staying as we are is of no benefit and is probably a detriment.

(02-23-2012 01:36 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 11:56 AM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  Looking at it from the standpoint of just brinigng in mouths to feed will keep us in a state of stagnation and regeression. Right now we are not getting anything of significance from our tv deal. Staying as the unit we currently have will not better that situation unless two of the 10 immediately grow into top 35 programs. We need to look to prosper. In order to do that, we must look to add programs. Unless we can lure some CUSA teams to the SBC, we will have to look for teams that have not maxed their value and appear to be in a position to grow beyond leaps and bounds. There are three programs currently pursuing FBS football or looking to pursue FBS football that fit that criteria - UTSA, GA State and UNCC. Get them in and allow them to put their resources into the SBC. They will be more than just mouths to feed.

At the risk of being repetitive.....no I've gone beyond risk and am sitting squarely in the middle of Repeatville....enabling Ga State will hurt us in the long run. Once they've completed the transition to FBS they will become a target of expansion by other conferences and that will happen before they can bring any substantial economic benefit to the the conference. And then what do we have? Another FBS program in the SE region with a better conference affiliation competing with us for recruits and TV money.
At least App State and Ga Southern would have to have some extended success before they could overcome their markets and get lured away.
UTSA and TSU are already going to be FBS and they offer good markets and fanbases. They make much more sense.

But you shouldn't look at it that way. One thing realignment should have taught us is that no one is safe. The AQ schools took programs from one another without any hesitation. No one is safe. Especially teams in non-AQ conferences. Therefore, each conference must add value and maximize its branding and money making potential. We have to. If that means rolling the dice that UTSA and Ga State may leave in 5 years, then so be it. If the conference is 1000% better financially when those schools leave, it would have all been worth it.

(02-23-2012 03:08 PM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 01:36 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 11:56 AM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  Looking at it from the standpoint of just brinigng in mouths to feed will keep us in a state of stagnation and regeression. Right now we are not getting anything of significance from our tv deal. Staying as the unit we currently have will not better that situation unless two of the 10 immediately grow into top 35 programs. We need to look to prosper. In order to do that, we must look to add programs. Unless we can lure some CUSA teams to the SBC, we will have to look for teams that have not maxed their value and appear to be in a position to grow beyond leaps and bounds. There are three programs currently pursuing FBS football or looking to pursue FBS football that fit that criteria - UTSA, GA State and UNCC. Get them in and allow them to put their resources into the SBC. They will be more than just mouths to feed.

At the risk of being repetitive.....no I've gone beyond risk and am sitting squarely in the middle of Repeatville....enabling Ga State will hurt us in the long run. Once they've completed the transition to FBS they will become a target of expansion by other conferences and that will happen before they can bring any substantial economic benefit to the the conference. And then what do we have? Another FBS program in the SE region with a better conference affiliation competing with us for recruits and TV money.
At least App State and Ga Southern would have to have some extended success before they could overcome their markets and get lured away.
UTSA and TSU are already going to be FBS and they offer good markets and fanbases. They make much more sense.

But you shouldn't look at it that way. One thing realignment should have taught us is that no one is safe. The AQ schools took programs from one another without any hesitation. No one is safe. Especially teams in non-AQ conferences. Therefore, each conference must add value and maximize its branding and money making potential. We have to. If that means rolling the dice that UTSA and Ga State may leave in 5 years, then so be it. If the conference is 1000% better financially when those schools leave, it would have all been worth it.

+1

(02-23-2012 03:08 PM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 01:36 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 11:56 AM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  Looking at it from the standpoint of just brinigng in mouths to feed will keep us in a state of stagnation and regeression. Right now we are not getting anything of significance from our tv deal. Staying as the unit we currently have will not better that situation unless two of the 10 immediately grow into top 35 programs. We need to look to prosper. In order to do that, we must look to add programs. Unless we can lure some CUSA teams to the SBC, we will have to look for teams that have not maxed their value and appear to be in a position to grow beyond leaps and bounds. There are three programs currently pursuing FBS football or looking to pursue FBS football that fit that criteria - UTSA, GA State and UNCC. Get them in and allow them to put their resources into the SBC. They will be more than just mouths to feed.

At the risk of being repetitive.....no I've gone beyond risk and am sitting squarely in the middle of Repeatville....enabling Ga State will hurt us in the long run. Once they've completed the transition to FBS they will become a target of expansion by other conferences and that will happen before they can bring any substantial economic benefit to the the conference. And then what do we have? Another FBS program in the SE region with a better conference affiliation competing with us for recruits and TV money.
At least App State and Ga Southern would have to have some extended success before they could overcome their markets and get lured away.
UTSA and TSU are already going to be FBS and they offer good markets and fanbases. They make much more sense.

But you shouldn't look at it that way. One thing realignment should have taught us is that no one is safe. The AQ schools took programs from one another without any hesitation. No one is safe. Especially teams in non-AQ conferences. Therefore, each conference must add value and maximize its branding and money making potential. We have to. If that means rolling the dice that UTSA and Ga State may leave in 5 years, then so be it. If the conference is 1000% better financially when those schools leave, it would have all been worth it.

The conference would not be in better shape after five years. Look at what has happened to TV deals in other conferences after they have been raided. All the contracts are extinguishable by the networks if there is a change in membership and they think the value has decreased.
And you have to think about what happens after they leave. In the Ga State case, we've elevated an FCS program into one that now will be in a better position to win in the competition for resources. ULM may not feel the pinch much, but USA, MTSU, WKU and Troy all recruit Georgia heavily and it would harm our ability to pull players from that state.
BTW, I'm not against UTSA. I'm all for it, but only because there's no stopping them from joining the FBS ranks since they received an invitation from the WAC.

(02-23-2012 03:53 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 03:08 PM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 01:36 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 11:56 AM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  Looking at it from the standpoint of just brinigng in mouths to feed will keep us in a state of stagnation and regeression. Right now we are not getting anything of significance from our tv deal. Staying as the unit we currently have will not better that situation unless two of the 10 immediately grow into top 35 programs. We need to look to prosper. In order to do that, we must look to add programs. Unless we can lure some CUSA teams to the SBC, we will have to look for teams that have not maxed their value and appear to be in a position to grow beyond leaps and bounds. There are three programs currently pursuing FBS football or looking to pursue FBS football that fit that criteria - UTSA, GA State and UNCC. Get them in and allow them to put their resources into the SBC. They will be more than just mouths to feed.

At the risk of being repetitive.....no I've gone beyond risk and am sitting squarely in the middle of Repeatville....enabling Ga State will hurt us in the long run. Once they've completed the transition to FBS they will become a target of expansion by other conferences and that will happen before they can bring any substantial economic benefit to the the conference. And then what do we have? Another FBS program in the SE region with a better conference affiliation competing with us for recruits and TV money.
At least App State and Ga Southern would have to have some extended success before they could overcome their markets and get lured away.
UTSA and TSU are already going to be FBS and they offer good markets and fanbases. They make much more sense.

But you shouldn't look at it that way. One thing realignment should have taught us is that no one is safe. The AQ schools took programs from one another without any hesitation. No one is safe. Especially teams in non-AQ conferences. Therefore, each conference must add value and maximize its branding and money making potential. We have to. If that means rolling the dice that UTSA and Ga State may leave in 5 years, then so be it. If the conference is 1000% better financially when those schools leave, it would have all been worth it.

The conference would not be in better shape after five years. Look at what has happened to TV deals in other conferences after they have been raided. All the contracts are extinguishable by the networks if there is a change in membership and they think the value has decreased.
And you have to think about what happens after they leave. In the Ga State case, we've elevated an FCS program into one that now will be in a better position to win in the competition for resources. ULM may not feel the pinch much, but USA, MTSU, WKU and Troy all recruit Georgia heavily and it would harm our ability to pull players from that state.
BTW, I'm not against UTSA. I'm all for it, but only because there's no stopping them from joining the FBS ranks since they received an invitation from the WAC.

Your argument tends to suggests that GA State will surpass all other members of the SBC without a doubt within five years. I do not think that will be the case.

I don't think hes suggesting that. Hes suggesting that they will be snatched up by "big market conference 23723849" by virtue of the fact they're in Atlanta. They could, theoretically, lose 80% of their games and still move up because of Atlanta.

Speaking of building the brand, you brand means nothing if teams are constintly coming and going. Stability will build the brand, in the scenario that you guys are talking about, if it all worked out that way, Appy State is a better bet for long term success for the SBC.

(02-23-2012 05:34 PM)Usajags Wrote:  Speaking of building the brand, you brand means nothing if teams are constintly coming and going. Stability will build the brand, in the scenario that you guys are talking about, if it all worked out that way, Appy State is a better bet for long term success for the SBC.

In all honesty, when the SEC comes calling in 5 years to expand their footprint into NC, we're gone like yesterday... :johnkerry:

(02-23-2012 05:44 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 05:34 PM)Usajags Wrote:  Speaking of building the brand, you brand means nothing if teams are constintly coming and going. Stability will build the brand, in the scenario that you guys are talking about, if it all worked out that way, Appy State is a better bet for long term success for the SBC.

In all honesty, when the SEC comes calling in 5 years to expand their footprint into NC, we're gone like yesterday... :johnkerry:

When, and only when the SEC comes calling, you are free to leave with all my best wishes.

(02-23-2012 10:08 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  May be true but just posting that there are teams who won't be mouths to feed. Were going to regret letting those teams go to the WAC.

We can always get them later. Just because they will be in the WAC doesn't mean we can't get them.

(02-23-2012 04:58 PM)Tiguar Wrote:  I don't think hes suggesting that. Hes suggesting that they will be snatched up by "big market conference 23723849" by virtue of the fact they're in Atlanta. They could, theoretically, lose 80% of their games and still move up because of Atlanta.

Exactly

All sounds negative to me. "We want to make sure we only take sucky teams so nobody will want them and they won't leave." Not a great recipe for success.

Nope, go after the best that you can possibly get and try to make your conference good enough so that they will stay and that maybe other good teams will want to join. If they leave, go for another.

It's not like there are going to be a whole lot of slots available up above us at some point unless The Alliance intends to go to 36.

I see points on both sides. History sides with the more "negative" outlook unfortunately. Its a risk bringing up an FCS program that may leave in 5 years but is it a risk worth taking? A decision to be made by those who earn the $$$ to make them.

(02-23-2012 09:09 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  All sounds negative to me. "We want to make sure we only take sucky teams so nobody will want them and they won't leave." Not a great recipe for success.

Nope, go after the best that you can possibly get and try to make your conference good enough so that they will stay and that maybe other good teams will want to join. If they leave, go for another.

It's not like there are going to be a whole lot of slots available up above us at some point unless The Alliance intends to go to 36.

Then you want App State and La Tech, correct? Their athletic accomplishments are far better than the other candidates.
My point was to take teams that will add value to the conference. Not teams that will drag down the overall athletic quality initially and then leave for greener pastures before they become an asset. Small market teams will have to earn it on the field which helps everyone in the conference.
And a big factor that no one seems to grasp is not that it's so damaging to the conference long term that a team leaves very quickly. What's damaging is that you're taking an FCS team that might beat a Sun Belt team for a recruit one out of ten times and turning them into a member of another FBS conference that will go up against SBC teams in recruiting and beat them eight out of ten times.

I don't think we need to add anyone until we know who we are losing. If the conference office wants to create a short list, that's fine, but they should have multipule plans. I think losing ULM and ULL requires a different reaction than say losing UNT and FIU.

By the way, Liberty University in Virginia claimed on their board that the Sun Belt President was on their campus on 2/18/2012. Find that hard to believe that this would be about expansion, but thought I would just pass it along.


Believe their board is FlameFans.com

I bet you App State folks are eager to transfer your fans from AnyGivenSaturday.com to here. That plays is full of dillusional FCS fans.