http://www.npr.org/2012/02/22/147186116/...an-winning

Vacated is the greatest penalty ever. It's just a game, I really don't get caught up in the whole cheating stuff

(02-22-2012 09:54 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Vacated is the greatest penalty ever. It's just a game, I really don't get caught up in the whole cheating stuff

What if they take away your ball and you end up like UNLV?

(02-21-2012 07:59 PM)TG4 Wrote:  Personally, I think Josh is trying to do things the right way and I agree with him. He could prove me completely wrong tomorrow but, from what I've seen, he has the program's best interest first and foremost. I'm just curious how many Tiger fans are in it for a coach with a "win at all costs" mentality.

'At Ohio State, former athletics director Andy Geiger went through a scandal with coach Jim O'Brien, who violated NCAA rules by giving a prospect a loan. Ohio State was forced to vacate its 1999 Final Four appearance.

"I think it's very hurtful for the people who participated," Geiger said. "Their records and achievements are lost forever. It's a permanent stain. … From the point of view of fans, the public, it's not terribly significant because they had the experience. And the experience is not erased."

Who pays in the long run?

oh geez.........now we're gonna get all self-righteous? i enjoyed that final four run and you did too.

this is freaking tigahhigh. the few choirboys that can actually play basketball aint coming here. we have to take a chance and shop from the dented canned goods section.

both of our final four runs were worth whatever we were accused of and whatever they didnt find out about.

with ticket prices through the roof i expect a high level of entertainment. if i want to see true scholar athletes i'll go watch rhodes college

(02-22-2012 07:17 AM)madtiger Wrote:  The really scary part is that there is a large group of people that deep down honestly believe that Josh isn't pushing and bending every rule he can- just as John did. Josh is a high major basketball coach...if he isn't pushing every rule he can to make Memphis basketball #1, he won't be around for long.

JMS said it best long ago...College athletics is a complete sewer.

I'd rather win the right way, but sadly I don't think there even exists a right way anymore. What is the "right way" and who gets to decide that?

Up until a few months ago...wouldn't folks had said Joe Paterno did it the "right way"?

the bolded part is what I was going to say. We aint getting all these kids because they want to play at memphis or for josh.

The other part people miss or ignore is that Cal is still coaching NCAA basketball, even with two final fours vacated, for a reason. Plausible deniability. It is the same thing Josh will use (and his fans) if our program gets its hand caught in the cookie jar. Josh does not personally set up deals just like Cal did not personally set up deals. Things just have a way or getting taken care of around high level basketball programs (or football programs for that matter). It is what it is.

(02-22-2012 08:26 AM)GermantownTiger Wrote:  Winning via cheating is like sleeping with the Prom
Queen and catching genital herpes...fun for the night but a real drag for the long term.

I know it's cliche, but I almost had a backwash moment.

+2

(02-22-2012 10:00 AM)tigertommy Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:54 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Vacated is the greatest penalty ever. It's just a game, I really don't get caught up in the whole cheating stuff

What if they take away your ball and you end up like UNLV?

Then you have your memories

(02-22-2012 09:17 AM)TigerS Wrote:  Serious, amen, the guy just said he would cheat to win even if caught and you say amen. The end does not justifiy the means. When you get caught it can be many years to over come, see SMU football. That feeling of winning is great but temporary.

Memphis did not cheat! The freakin NCAA Clearinghouse approved DRose to be eligible. I've told this story a hundred times but will one more time. My wife works with the Clearinghouse every year in working with some 50-75 athletes from her school that will receive scholarships. The Clearinghouse is the final word. It's over, done deal.

We aren't talking about a shoebox of money or million dollar homes for athletes (like Reggie Bush) but a "questionable" standardized test.

The NCAA was reaching on this deal, and still have no proof. Notta, Zip.

(02-22-2012 09:32 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:01 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 07:59 PM)TG4 Wrote:  Personally, I think Josh is trying to do things the right way and I agree with him. He could prove me completely wrong tomorrow but, from what I've seen, he has the program's best interest first and foremost. I'm just curious how many Tiger fans are in it for a coach with a "win at all costs" mentality.

'At Ohio State, former athletics director Andy Geiger went through a scandal with coach Jim O'Brien, who violated NCAA rules by giving a prospect a loan. Ohio State was forced to vacate its 1999 Final Four appearance.

"I think it's very hurtful for the people who participated," Geiger said. "Their records and achievements are lost forever. It's a permanent stain. … From the point of view of fans, the public, it's not terribly significant because they had the experience. And the experience is not erased."

Who pays in the long run?

This is all about a "mid major" making a laughing stock of Michigan State, Texas and UCLA and just failing to make the knockout punch against Kansas. This is never heard of if DRose goes to Illinois.

Couldn't disagree more...

Do you know why USA TODAY interviewed Geiger?

HINT: He worked at the last school that had their Final Four appearance VACATED prior to memphis...so he heard FIRSTHAND feedback from fans/boosters for YEARS, so he knew it was mostly "no big deal...as his own fans were there and most probably enjoyed their RUN".

You can disagree all you want, and oh, give me a call the next time you make it to the Final Four.

Let's ask the Enron executives if it was worth it.

Wow, there's a lot of people here I wouldn't invite over to my house for dinner.

(02-21-2012 09:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  As long as we win then I dont care how it gets done. You are lying to yourself if you have more fun being mediocre and clean than being the best team in the country by overstepping some bounds. 2007-08 was one of the best experiences of my life and many others. I dont care what the NCAA did after the fact.

Well, it's obvious you missed the 1972-73 season. That is the way to get it done. Or the 1956-57 season, when the NIT was as good or better than the NCAA.

(02-22-2012 10:57 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 09:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  As long as we win then I dont care how it gets done. You are lying to yourself if you have more fun being mediocre and clean than being the best team in the country by overstepping some bounds. 2007-08 was one of the best experiences of my life and many others. I dont care what the NCAA did after the fact.

Well, it's obvious you missed the 1972-73 season. That is the way to get it done. Or the 1956-57 season, when the NIT was as good or better than the NCAA.

yeah, 72/73 season we didnt get caught

(02-21-2012 09:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  As long as we win then I dont care how it gets done. You are lying to yourself if you have more fun being mediocre and clean than being the best team in the country by overstepping some bounds. 2007-08 was one of the best experiences of my life and many others. I dont care what the NCAA did after the fact.

If you really mean this, and you were my son, I would be ashamed of you, and of myself.

(02-22-2012 10:24 AM)FUT Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 07:17 AM)madtiger Wrote:  The really scary part is that there is a large group of people that deep down honestly believe that Josh isn't pushing and bending every rule he can- just as John did. Josh is a high major basketball coach...if he isn't pushing every rule he can to make Memphis basketball #1, he won't be around for long.

JMS said it best long ago...College athletics is a complete sewer.

I'd rather win the right way, but sadly I don't think there even exists a right way anymore. What is the "right way" and who gets to decide that?

Up until a few months ago...wouldn't folks had said Joe Paterno did it the "right way"?

the bolded part is what I was going to say. We aint getting all these kids because they want to play at memphis or for josh.

The other part people miss or ignore is that Cal is still coaching NCAA basketball, even with two final fours vacated, for a reason. Plausible deniability. It is the same thing Josh will use (and his fans) if our program gets its hand caught in the cookie jar. Josh does not personally set up deals just like Cal did not personally set up deals. Things just have a way or getting taken care of around high level basketball programs (or football programs for that matter). It is what it is.

Are you saying Memphis can only recruit good players if they cheat?

(02-22-2012 11:00 AM)btiger Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:57 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 09:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  As long as we win then I dont care how it gets done. You are lying to yourself if you have more fun being mediocre and clean than being the best team in the country by overstepping some bounds. 2007-08 was one of the best experiences of my life and many others. I dont care what the NCAA did after the fact.

Well, it's obvious you missed the 1972-73 season. That is the way to get it done. Or the 1956-57 season, when the NIT was as good or better than the NCAA.

yeah, 72/73 season we didnt get caught

Haha, you could be right. I actually had the same thought before I hit "send." We both probably know another time or two we didn't get caught, too.

(02-22-2012 10:57 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 09:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  As long as we win then I dont care how it gets done. You are lying to yourself if you have more fun being mediocre and clean than being the best team in the country by overstepping some bounds. 2007-08 was one of the best experiences of my life and many others. I dont care what the NCAA did after the fact.

Well, it's obvious you missed the 1972-73 season. That is the way to get it done. Or the 1956-57 season, when the NIT was as good or better than the NCAA.

Different era, much fewer rules and almost non-existent enforcement (but still great fun). How many titles would Wooden have won without Sam Gilbert's "influence?" Yet Wooden is college basketball's patron saint.

(02-22-2012 11:34 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:24 AM)FUT Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 07:17 AM)madtiger Wrote:  The really scary part is that there is a large group of people that deep down honestly believe that Josh isn't pushing and bending every rule he can- just as John did. Josh is a high major basketball coach...if he isn't pushing every rule he can to make Memphis basketball #1, he won't be around for long.

JMS said it best long ago...College athletics is a complete sewer.

I'd rather win the right way, but sadly I don't think there even exists a right way anymore. What is the "right way" and who gets to decide that?

Up until a few months ago...wouldn't folks had said Joe Paterno did it the "right way"?

the bolded part is what I was going to say. We aint getting all these kids because they want to play at memphis or for josh.

The other part people miss or ignore is that Cal is still coaching NCAA basketball, even with two final fours vacated, for a reason. Plausible deniability. It is the same thing Josh will use (and his fans) if our program gets its hand caught in the cookie jar. Josh does not personally set up deals just like Cal did not personally set up deals. Things just have a way or getting taken care of around high level basketball programs (or football programs for that matter). It is what it is.

Are you saying Memphis can only recruit good players if they cheat?

no. I am saying that in high level basketball programs certain things have to be done to get certain players. Not just Memphis. This goes on at Kentucky and Kansas and UCLA and yes, even UNC and Duke. Corey Maggette ring a bell anyone?

(02-22-2012 11:38 AM)dexterreed Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:57 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 09:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  As long as we win then I dont care how it gets done. You are lying to yourself if you have more fun being mediocre and clean than being the best team in the country by overstepping some bounds. 2007-08 was one of the best experiences of my life and many others. I dont care what the NCAA did after the fact.

Well, it's obvious you missed the 1972-73 season. That is the way to get it done. Or the 1956-57 season, when the NIT was as good or better than the NCAA.

Different era, much fewer rules and almost non-existent enforcement (but still great fun). How many titles would Wooden have won without Sam Gilbert's "influence?" Yet Wooden is college basketball's patron saint.

Yeah, I know. I've often wondered how good Wooden would have been without Gilbert. And we were playing that game, too, just not anywhere nearly as well. And apparently not when Moe Iba was here, lol.

I also recall a few point shaving scandals in the old days, which are rare now, b/c the best players get paid a lot more under the table thorugh shoe companies, etc.

This is one reason Josh is so popular with folks, b/c he is legitimately trying to do it w/o resorting to payola, or other similar inducements. I'm definitely in the club that thinks if you cheat, it's not the same as winning it b/c you are better, even if the rest of the world is doing it. And not everybody is, or at least not blatantly.

The game, is out there. It's play or get played.