(02-22-2012 02:09 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 01:11 PM)tigertommy Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:36 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:17 AM)TigerS Wrote:  Serious, amen, the guy just said he would cheat to win even if caught and you say amen. The end does not justifiy the means. When you get caught it can be many years to over come, see SMU football. That feeling of winning is great but temporary.

Memphis did not cheat! The freakin NCAA Clearinghouse approved DRose to be eligible. I've told this story a hundred times but will one more time. My wife works with the Clearinghouse every year in working with some 50-75 athletes from her school that will receive scholarships. The Clearinghouse is the final word. It's over, done deal.

We aren't talking about a shoebox of money or million dollar homes for athletes (like Reggie Bush) but a "questionable" standardized test.

The NCAA was reaching on this deal, and still have no proof. Notta, Zip.

There was plenty of proof. Sorry.

I'm glad that you are at peace with it.

I live it every day, I choose to go by the rules the high school testing professionals and the NCAA Clearinghouse are given to work with.

Show me the sign in record of someone taking the test for DRose and I'll agree with you. Until then, selective enforcement is the only explanation.

I will admit that my knowledge is limited as to what all might have been published in the Memphis papers or spoken over the airwaves, but if you wanted to argue the integrity of this with my wife, you would never win.

Was the NCAA duplicitous with its Clearinghouse issues? Of course.
Was the NCAA selective in its enforcement of its rules? Of course.
Does the NCAA apply a double standard depending on the school charged? Of course.
Was there proof of the Rose/test issue? From what I've heard yes, but it was never offered publicly and I guess won't ever be.

(02-22-2012 10:57 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 09:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  As long as we win then I dont care how it gets done. You are lying to yourself if you have more fun being mediocre and clean than being the best team in the country by overstepping some bounds. 2007-08 was one of the best experiences of my life and many others. I dont care what the NCAA did after the fact.

Well, it's obvious you missed the 1972-73 season. That is the way to get it done. Or the 1956-57 season, when the NIT was as good or better than the NCAA.

For the sake of historical accuracy, I would argue that the NCAA had surpassed the NIT as the premier tournament by 56-57. Take a look at the rankings of each team that played in the two tournents and you'll see that by 56-57 most of the highest ranked teams in the country played in the NCAA and not the NIT.

(02-21-2012 08:30 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  Cheating and risking probation, forfeiture of wins/NCAA funds, and the shame that's placed on the university is never worth the wins.

I agree and as long as I know our coaches work diligently on recruiting, then I will understand losing recruits who may have been lured by improper methods.

The NCAA has created an unlevel playing field by choosing who they wish to punish. If they would make an unbiased effort to enforce the rules on all institutions and not just those comparable to Memphis, then I don't believe some posters would deem It necessary to cheat. I like Pastner for who he is and what he stands for despite all the pressure from the media and people around the campus who believes he needs to change his personality to succeed. Pastner should stay true to who he is, and if thats not good enough here, that doesn't mean it won't be good enough somewhere else. GTG

(02-21-2012 08:59 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 08:33 PM)Oceana Tiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 08:27 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 08:22 PM)Oceana Tiger Wrote:  Cheating aint winning if you are Donnie Jones. Cheating is winning if you are Cal.

I usually word my comments a little gentler than this, but you're seriously nuts if you thing forfeiting games is worth the wins.

What have you won?

I lost absolutely nothing from the fantastic season of 07-08

There probably aren't many here surprised that your answer involved "I" and not the university.

Not that the DR incident and results from the NCAA were entirely fair, it bothers me that when you google "most penalized programs in ncaa history" the two articles below are in the first three that appear.....but "I" lost absolutely nothing"....good for you.

Like him or not, I believe that Josh is trying to win the right way, not the quick/dirty/cheating way. It looks like 90% of the fans on this board support that path.

Win at all costs/cheating will get you in trouble eventually.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/10/...t-20100611

http://www.deepintosports.com/2011/03/16...rams-ncaa/

I'm not quite sure if 90% are still behind him or not but one thing I do know is that the ones who have given up on him, whatever percentage that may be, make a hell of a lot more noise than the ones who are still on board.

(02-22-2012 02:25 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 08:30 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  Cheating and risking probation, forfeiture of wins/NCAA funds, and the shame that's placed on the university is never worth the wins.

I agree and as long as I know our coaches work diligently on recruiting, then I will understand losing recruits who may have been lured by improper methods.

Agreed, losing David Vaughn Sr to ORU is the perfect example of what you're talking about. If we're too lazy to recruit to the limits of the rules, that's another issue.

(02-22-2012 02:22 PM)3601 Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:57 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 09:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  As long as we win then I dont care how it gets done. You are lying to yourself if you have more fun being mediocre and clean than being the best team in the country by overstepping some bounds. 2007-08 was one of the best experiences of my life and many others. I dont care what the NCAA did after the fact.

Well, it's obvious you missed the 1972-73 season. That is the way to get it done. Or the 1956-57 season, when the NIT was as good or better than the NCAA.

For the sake of historical accuracy, I would argue that the NCAA had surpassed the NIT as the premier tournament by 56-57. Take a look at the rankings of each team that played in the two tournents and you'll see that by 56-57 most of the highest ranked teams in the country played in the NCAA and not the NIT.

I'm sure you are right, as I didn't look it up. I was 9 at the time, and going from memory. But it was still very close to that era. We were a very good team that year, if not great, and certainly could have held our own with most others. Mostly, I just remember being thrilled by our performance, and pissed that the refs screwed us in the end, lol.

Out of curiosity now, I might go back and see exactly when the balance definitively shifted to the NCAA. I know it wasn't when UK won at least 4 of their championships.

It has become obvious that some of the post are just to get a rise out of people. So lets all agree it's fine to cheat, lie and steal as long as we get what we want out of life and sport. There does that make you pro cheating guys feel all grown up and special. I get it Homefry20, sad but I get you, and yes it is a character flaw.

(02-22-2012 02:43 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 02:22 PM)3601 Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:57 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 09:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  As long as we win then I dont care how it gets done. You are lying to yourself if you have more fun being mediocre and clean than being the best team in the country by overstepping some bounds. 2007-08 was one of the best experiences of my life and many others. I dont care what the NCAA did after the fact.

Well, it's obvious you missed the 1972-73 season. That is the way to get it done. Or the 1956-57 season, when the NIT was as good or better than the NCAA.

For the sake of historical accuracy, I would argue that the NCAA had surpassed the NIT as the premier tournament by 56-57. Take a look at the rankings of each team that played in the two tournents and you'll see that by 56-57 most of the highest ranked teams in the country played in the NCAA and not the NIT.

I'm sure you are right, as I didn't look it up. I was 9 at the time, and going from memory. But it was still very close to that era. We were a very good team that year, if not great, and certainly could have held our own with most others. Mostly, I just remember being thrilled by our performance, and pissed that the refs screwed us in the end, lol.

Out of curiosity now, I might go back and see exactly when the balance definitively shifted to the NCAA. I know it wasn't when UK won at least 4 of their championships.

Without looking it up, wasn't the '57 NCAA championship Kansas VS UNC?....Kansas with Wilt? It would be hard to argue that we would beat Kansas. Win was a heck of a forward at his height, but holding Wilt at bay would have been too much to ask.

However, the original point is valid, we were among the strongest in the country at that time.

I think that the fly in the ointment is that there was an NCAA probation for us in that general time period if I remember correctly.

Not sure if this is related to anything or not, but the more this discussion veers into moral comments, the higher the percentage of vote goes to "yes". Perhaps there is a "holier than thou" perception to the discussion, which I don't think was anyone's intention.