Yeah, it's not like there is a caption for the pic that says "Nader scores two against SIUE" or something like that.

This was a bad loss. Gotta win these games

i feel for monty....i like him...hes a good coach and in a terrible situation....the team he has is untalented and i realistically do not think will individually get better. Being such a crap team and a program that has been down so long makes it nearly impossible to land recruits that are anyting more that scrap for other programs. Additionally, he is stuck with the guys that he has for the most part for the next 3-4 years. There is just not enough lipstick for that pig. Between Judson and Patton, they have decimated this program for maybe the next two decades.....its sad.

Houston, agreed. This is going to take years to fix.

(02-19-2012 02:35 PM)houstonhuskie Wrote:  i feel for monty....i like him...hes a good coach and in a terrible situation....the team he has is untalented and i realistically do not think will individually get better. Being such a crap team and a program that has been down so long makes it nearly impossible to land recruits that are anyting more that scrap for other programs. Additionally, he is stuck with the guys that he has for the most part for the next 3-4 years. There is just not enough lipstick for that pig. Between Judson and Patton, they have decimated this program for maybe the next two decades.....its sad.

Finally, someone saying exactly what I have been saying for weeks and taking all kinds of cr*p for saying it.

it is not going to take decades or even years and years.....the great thing about basketball is it only takes a great player, a really good player and a few guys that do one thing well and know their roles. Nader may be that great player--The SIU E loss was not as horrendous as some are making it out to be...they started 3 seniors--when Nader and Ford are seniors they will be very good....If Mader comes in and progresses, as a Junior, he could be a load...throw in a talented frosh or soph, a few muscled up grays and some Balls, and those huskies, circa 2015, could compete for a MAC championship....oh ye of little faith go roll in the negative hype served up by caustic chaz.....I just don't understand why clowns like that bother to read, much less post, on the NIU basketball team. Why not just enjoy the football success and follow some sure-fire winner in basketball.

(02-19-2012 04:37 PM)cagy cager Wrote:  it is not going to take decades or even years and years.....the great thing about basketball is it only takes a great player, a really good player and a few guys that do one thing well and know their roles. Nader may be that great player--The SIU E loss was not as horrendous as some are making it out to be...they started 3 seniors--when Nader and Ford are seniors they will be very good...If Mader comes in and progresses, as a Junior, he could be a load...throw in a talented frosh or soph, a few muscled up grays and some Balls, and those huskies, circa 2015, could compete for a MAC championship....oh ye of little faith go roll in the negative hype served up by caustic chaz.....I just don't understand why clowns like that bother to read, much less post, on the NIU basketball team. Why not just enjoy the football success and follow some sure-fire winner in basketball.

I continue to try and embrace these guys but i just cannot drink the koolaid on the talent we have on the floor. Ther is NOTHING that i have seen in Nader that makes me believe he will ever be "very good" No defense, cant shoot at all, has no discipline in shot selection. Usually you can see the talent but just know it is under developed. I see none in these guys and I want to,....i really do. I was there in Chich Evans for every game during the Dillon, Rayhorn years...i was in Rockford watching Battle do amazing things...I was a basketball fan through and through during my college experience but...watching these guys it painful....Monty is getting the most out of them but that isnt even enough to be competitive normally...We are at best the nineth best non professional basketball team in Illinois (and I propose that even some high school teams might be better at this point...remember who we lost to first). Age by itself does not change a bad basketball player into a "really good" one....there has to be talent and drive and I am just not seeing it.

(02-19-2012 04:58 PM)houstonhuskie Wrote:  

(02-19-2012 04:37 PM)cagy cager Wrote:  it is not going to take decades or even years and years.....the great thing about basketball is it only takes a great player, a really good player and a few guys that do one thing well and know their roles. Nader may be that great player--The SIU E loss was not as horrendous as some are making it out to be...they started 3 seniors--when Nader and Ford are seniors they will be very good...If Mader comes in and progresses, as a Junior, he could be a load...throw in a talented frosh or soph, a few muscled up grays and some Balls, and those huskies, circa 2015, could compete for a MAC championship....oh ye of little faith go roll in the negative hype served up by caustic chaz.....I just don't understand why clowns like that bother to read, much less post, on the NIU basketball team. Why not just enjoy the football success and follow some sure-fire winner in basketball.

I continue to try and embrace these guys but i just cannot drink the koolaid on the talent we have on the floor. Ther is NOTHING that i have seen in Nader that makes me believe he will ever be "very good" No defense, cant shoot at all, has no discipline in shot selection. Usually you can see the talent but just know it is under developed. I see none in these guys and I want to,....i really do. I was there in Chich Evans for every game during the Dillon, Rayhorn years...i was in Rockford watching Battle do amazing things...I was a basketball fan through and through during my college experience but...watching these guys it painful....Monty is getting the most out of them but that isnt even enough to be competitive normally...We are at best the nineth best non professional basketball team in Illinois (and I propose that even some high school teams might be better at this point...remember who we lost to first). Age by itself does not change a bad basketball player into a "really good" one....there has to be talent and drive and I am just not seeing it.

I was also there watching these guys and others play as freshmen and you could see the natural talent and watch it devolop as their freshmen year went on. Nothing like that on this team. Cagey cager-- pick on someone else for a change.

In all reality, we will know more about the future of Huskie basketball after this year's recruiting is over. NIU needs a monster recruiting class to begin to turn the program around.

I think Nader will be a really good player....he certainly has faults; he gets overaggressive on offense (just lowers his shoulder and stampedes to the basket, picking up charges), his shot selection could be better, his shooting could stand to get more accurate, and his D isn't disciplined yet (gets too aggressive going for blocks sometimes, takes bad fouls).

But I think he has the talent, when honed with experience/coaching, to be a potent slasher and a good defender. He moves well, has long arms, and he's usually very active. If he gets better at shooting, he'll still be able to score when they cut off his access to the basket or hopefully find a teammate if there is a help defender on him. He also has the "look" (swagger, "it" factor, whatever you prefer) of a scorer.

I think in a year or two, Nader is going to a ton of fun to watch.

Nadar-12, Bolin-10, Berg and Balls-12, Nixon and Ford and Christian-21, Gray twinns-12 and Madar and Bowie-6. I believe these will be the scoring averages for the players next year. Teams rebounding and defense is already decent and expect it to get even better. If niu was losing to other teams that played mostly freshman then we would be in trouble for the future but we are losing to upperclassmen dominated teams. There is no doubt that when our fresman become juniors they will be a good Mac team!

SIUE (and it is SIUE not SIU-E, just as SIU is really SIUC, same system different schools not offshoots of each other, there is also a medical school and a dental school in the same system as well...) is a better team than people realize, they have a pretty exciting coach and they've done a good job considering this is their first real D-1/OVC year. NIU just isn't talented enough right now, it is a long rebuilding process for us

(02-19-2012 07:31 PM)niutwo two Wrote:  Nadar-12, Bolin-10, Berg and Balls-12, Nixon and Ford and Christian-21, Gray twinns-12 and Madar and Bowie-6. I believe these will be the scoring averages for the players next year. Teams rebounding and defense is already decent and expect it to get even better. If niu was losing to other teams that played mostly freshman then we would be in trouble for the future but we are losing to upperclassmen dominated teams. There is no doubt that when our fresman become juniors they will be a good Mac team!

That's probably a little aggressive given that they're only averaging 55 points a game right now and also play at an extremely slow pace (293rd in adjusted tempo; 63.5 possessions a game). A team's pace doesn't tend to change drastically from one year to the next, so even if they speed up a little as they improve (say around 65-66 possessions), it will be tough to get to 70+ points a game. If they can get up around 63-65 points a game next year, that would be really solid improvement and give them a shot at being competitive in the MAC. Given their youth this year, I think they can do that.

Its a very small improvement for everyone, very small! The team will play much quicker next year with balls on it. The amount of minutes everyone is getting is going to pay huge dividends next year.

(02-19-2012 09:26 PM)niutwo two Wrote:  Its a very small improvement for everyone, very small! The team will play much quicker next year with balls on it. The amount of minutes everyone is getting is going to pay huge dividends next year.

I'd love to see it, but I don't think it will play that much quicker, that isn't Montgomery's background. Michigan State has traditionally been around 66 possessions/game, and even if NIU gets to that tempo next year, getting to 70+ points a game is unlikely.

I think you're right, you'll see an overall improvement that will be significant, but not every single guy will increase their scoring average like that. Some guys will be better, more efficient, players but won't score as much or increase their scoring to any real degree.

When I say play quicker I mean with more of a rhythm and getting more fast break points. The team gets enough shots just not shooting well. There have been several times each guy has put up those numbers just not in the same game. The players and coaches will grow together alot over the next year and it will make a difference in next years games.

Houston, we have a problem...maybe because you are in Houston and haven't really seen Nader play except for a few internet feeds.......Nader, last spring, when it was reported he was going to a prep school for the 2011-2012 school year, was ranked by some services as the #1 recruit in Illinois for the class of 2012......that is TALENT.

He is a very good shooter and an even better scorer. He is shooting a bad percentage because he hasn't learned what a good shot is and because noone else can create their own shot, often has to get a shot off. The release, rotation and arc on his jumpshot are things of beauty. When he figures things out and NIU gets some balls to get Abdel open looks or some inside out with Mader, etc occurs more often, he will increase his 10+ ppg to at least 15...This is an all MAC caliber player who will be on the All MAC frosh team this year.

Your saying "that even some high school teams might be better at this point" shows how little you know about college basketball. We lost to a DIII team which is hardly a high school team in the first game of the year.

You are, no doubt, in your clouded memory, comparing Rayhorn, Battle and Dillon in their later years with this frosh. Those guys were surrounded by talent as they developed. Rayhorn had Jay Bryant who may still be the huskie all time leader in assists and Horn also played with Armato and Dillon. Dillon had Rayhorn in his early years and Armato and Brad Waller in his later years (all are in Huskie Hall of Fame). Battle was a freak athlete who only came to NIU cuz they had the wisdom to hire a high school coach from Aurora a few years before and left for the Big Ten because the morons in charge left the MAC and fired the coach who knew, and said, it was a mistake.

(02-20-2012 12:25 AM)cagy cager Wrote:  Houston, we have a problem...maybe because you are in Houston and haven't really seen Nader play except for a few internet feeds.......Nader, last spring, when it was reported he was going to a prep school for the 2011-2012 school year, was ranked by some services as the #1 recruit in Illinois for the class of 2012......that is TALENT.

He is a very good shooter and an even better scorer. He is shooting a bad percentage because he hasn't learned what a good shot is and because noone else can create their own shot, often has to get a shot off. The release, rotation and arc on his jumpshot are things of beauty. When he figures things out and NIU gets some balls to get Abdel open looks or some inside out with Mader, etc occurs more often, he will increase his 10+ ppg to at least 15...This is an all MAC caliber player who will be on the All MAC frosh team this year.

This. All of this.

(02-20-2012 01:13 AM)7 Wrote:  

(02-20-2012 12:25 AM)cagy cager Wrote:  Houston, we have a problem...maybe because you are in Houston and haven't really seen Nader play except for a few internet feeds.......Nader, last spring, when it was reported he was going to a prep school for the 2011-2012 school year, was ranked by some services as the #1 recruit in Illinois for the class of 2012......that is TALENT.

He is a very good shooter and an even better scorer. He is shooting a bad percentage because he hasn't learned what a good shot is and because noone else can create their own shot, often has to get a shot off. The release, rotation and arc on his jumpshot are things of beauty. When he figures things out and NIU gets some balls to get Abdel open looks or some inside out with Mader, etc occurs more often, he will increase his 10+ ppg to at least 15...This is an all MAC caliber player who will be on the All MAC frosh team this year.

This. All of this.

:iagree:

In a better program, Nader would be spending more time on the bench and learning from there.

As mentioned by "Frisky" in another post, Nader has "it". He can and will light it up in the future. He is a player that teams will need to "double". When that happens, we will need someone he can get the ball to, to knock down the open shot. Hopefully a "3".

Really too bad Nader hasn't had time to learn, his defense needs work. Classically beautiful jump shot but if he doesn't shoot, who will? That explains his low percentage.