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Will: Regulations grow on political speech
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Will: Regulations grow on political speech
Need to register to engage in political speech?
Must read here,

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120...RONTPAGE|s
02-03-2012 07:18 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
I would tell the city clerk to pound sand and to prosecute me. here in El Paso the mayor is being recalled and he sued a church who had helped organize it. While there clearly is a law against what the church did, a judge didn't do **** because of free speech and other issues. City clerk my ass.
02-03-2012 08:54 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
Good to see the Institute for Justice is fighting this. The Reason Foundation, CATO Institute, Institute for Justice, and Electronic Frontier Foundation are some very worthy causes to contribute to.
02-03-2012 09:09 PM
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Max Power Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
Damn activist conservative judges legislating from the bench!
02-03-2012 10:30 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-03-2012 10:30 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Damn activist conservative judges legislating from the bench!

What judge?
02-04-2012 09:33 AM
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dcCid Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-03-2012 08:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I would tell the city clerk to pound sand and to prosecute me. here in El Paso the mayor is being recalled and he sued a church who had helped organize it. While there clearly is a law against what the church did, a judge didn't do **** because of free speech and other issues. City clerk my ass.

Like the original NPS position on camping at McPherson Square National Park?

Anyhow – what did the church do that was illegal? We are attempting a recall election here for Mayor Gray and at large Councilman Brown (we still have Councilman Orange so the color spectrum is still represented).

BTW – the NPS police and the DC police went through McPherson Square this morning to confiscate ‘camping equipment”, although the tents can stay. The Large blue tent around the statue was taken down by the demonstrators. The only arrest was for the demonstrators who wanted to be arrested as a protest. I was watching it live on local tv and was amazed at how cordial the relationship was between the NPS police and protesters.
02-04-2012 11:24 AM
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smn1256 Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-04-2012 11:24 AM)dcCid Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 08:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I would tell the city clerk to pound sand and to prosecute me. here in El Paso the mayor is being recalled and he sued a church who had helped organize it. While there clearly is a law against what the church did, a judge didn't do **** because of free speech and other issues. City clerk my ass.

Like the original NPS position on camping at McPherson Square National Park?

Anyhow – what did the church do that was illegal? We are attempting a recall election here for Mayor Gray and at large Councilman Brown (we still have Councilman Orange so the color spectrum is still represented).

BTW – the NPS police and the DC police went through McPherson Square this morning to confiscate ‘camping equipment”, although the tents can stay. The Large blue tent around the statue was taken down by the demonstrators. The only arrest was for the demonstrators who wanted to be arrested as a protest. I was watching it live on local tv and was amazed at how cordial the relationship was between the NPS police and protesters.

What the church did was use its pulpit to get people to vote for the recall which is no bueno. They also didn't register as a political action group, specifically for the recall. And people donated money to the church specifically for the recall effort.
02-04-2012 12:02 PM
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dcCid Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-04-2012 12:02 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(02-04-2012 11:24 AM)dcCid Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 08:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I would tell the city clerk to pound sand and to prosecute me. here in El Paso the mayor is being recalled and he sued a church who had helped organize it. While there clearly is a law against what the church did, a judge didn't do **** because of free speech and other issues. City clerk my ass.

Like the original NPS position on camping at McPherson Square National Park?

Anyhow – what did the church do that was illegal? We are attempting a recall election here for Mayor Gray and at large Councilman Brown (we still have Councilman Orange so the color spectrum is still represented).

BTW – the NPS police and the DC police went through McPherson Square this morning to confiscate ‘camping equipment”, although the tents can stay. The Large blue tent around the statue was taken down by the demonstrators. The only arrest was for the demonstrators who wanted to be arrested as a protest. I was watching it live on local tv and was amazed at how cordial the relationship was between the NPS police and protesters.

What the church did was use its pulpit to get people to vote for the recall which is no bueno. They also didn't register as a political action group, specifically for the recall. And people donated money to the church specifically for the recall effort.

I guess they have to be issue based in theory versus specifically endorsing a candidate from the pulpit, but depending on how the recall works if it is just “to recall” that could be considered an issue. Many of the DC churches are very active in politics, but then they may endorse as a person and not from the pulpit. Collecting the cash for the effort is stretching the law.

What was the issue that drove the recall?
02-04-2012 03:23 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-04-2012 03:23 PM)dcCid Wrote:  What was the issue that drove the recall?

Oh, you're going to love this one: The voters of El Paso, a liberal but Chrstian bunch of people, voted to remove or other wise NOT to give health and other benefits to the unmarried partners of city employees. This was a ballot measure during the last election. The mayor and 4 councilmen decided to overturn the vote of the people. Now the people here are not upset about the mayor overturning vote as much as they are giving benefits to unmarried partners, specifically gays. This particular church has made it a gay thing and it's playing out well with the Hispanics. The mayor went to court to hammer the church and get an injunction against the recall effort. The judge ruled the state and federal election laws stiffling the church amount to a free speech violation. They said this could become a Supreme Court issue to decide free speech rights against political activism rights.
02-04-2012 07:49 PM
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Max Power Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-04-2012 09:33 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 10:30 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Damn activist conservative judges legislating from the bench!

What judge?

Well, the Supreme Court majority in Citizens United for starters.
02-04-2012 08:03 PM
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aTxTIGER Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
There is a simple fix on this. Get rid of tax exempt status and allow churches to say whatever they want. That way no one can get butthurt when a church gets political.
02-04-2012 08:32 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-04-2012 08:32 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  There is a simple fix on this. Get rid of tax exempt status and allow churches to say whatever they want. That way no one can get butthurt when a church gets political.

How can their tax status determine their free speech rights?
02-07-2012 09:35 AM
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aTxTIGER Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-07-2012 09:35 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  
(02-04-2012 08:32 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  There is a simple fix on this. Get rid of tax exempt status and allow churches to say whatever they want. That way no one can get butthurt when a church gets political.

How can their tax status determine their free speech rights?

There isnt a ban on churches having political speech. They just can't do it while they have tax-exempt status. If they are doing it anyway, just get rid of the tax exempt status so no one has a reason to ***** about it.
02-07-2012 09:38 AM
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Post: #14
RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-07-2012 09:38 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  
(02-07-2012 09:35 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  
(02-04-2012 08:32 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  There is a simple fix on this. Get rid of tax exempt status and allow churches to say whatever they want. That way no one can get butthurt when a church gets political.

How can their tax status determine their free speech rights?

There isnt a ban on churches having political speech. They just can't do it while they have tax-exempt status. If they are doing it anyway, just get rid of the tax exempt status so no one has a reason to ***** about it.

Is there a law against this?
02-07-2012 09:40 AM
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aTxTIGER Offline
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-07-2012 09:40 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  
(02-07-2012 09:38 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  
(02-07-2012 09:35 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  
(02-04-2012 08:32 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  There is a simple fix on this. Get rid of tax exempt status and allow churches to say whatever they want. That way no one can get butthurt when a church gets political.

How can their tax status determine their free speech rights?

There isnt a ban on churches having political speech. They just can't do it while they have tax-exempt status. If they are doing it anyway, just get rid of the tax exempt status so no one has a reason to ***** about it.

Is there a law against this?

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/...95,00.html
02-07-2012 09:45 AM
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-07-2012 09:45 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  
(02-07-2012 09:40 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  
(02-07-2012 09:38 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  
(02-07-2012 09:35 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  
(02-04-2012 08:32 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  There is a simple fix on this. Get rid of tax exempt status and allow churches to say whatever they want. That way no one can get butthurt when a church gets political.

How can their tax status determine their free speech rights?

There isnt a ban on churches having political speech. They just can't do it while they have tax-exempt status. If they are doing it anyway, just get rid of the tax exempt status so no one has a reason to ***** about it.

Is there a law against this?

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/...95,00.html

Ok. Well then they shouldn't do it. Or lose their tax status.
02-07-2012 09:47 AM
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
On the flip side if this...what it something happens like it is now when government clearly oversteps is bounds and forces the church to comply with a mandate that is implicitly against its system of beliefs. At what point can the church fight back?
02-07-2012 10:52 AM
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RE: Will: Regulations grow on political speech
(02-07-2012 10:52 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  On the flip side if this...what it something happens like it is now when government clearly oversteps is bounds and forces the church to comply with a mandate that is implicitly against its system of beliefs. At what point can the church fight back?

All things being equal, the Church can say whatever it wants to be honest. The State doesn't have a right to intervene at all really unless there is a crime involved....i.e., sex abuse scandal, monetary improprieties, etc. WTS, church organizations should know what they are getting into when they apply for tax exempt status.
02-07-2012 11:00 AM
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