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Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
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zibby Offline
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Post: #1
Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.
02-05-2012 02:21 AM
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perimeterpost Offline
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RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 02:21 AM)zibby Wrote:  We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.

one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships. NIU and Toledo fans like to think that they are heads and shoulders above the East, they're not. NIU didn't win the MACC as much as Ohio epically choked it away. The imbalance in divisions isn't on the top end, its on the bottom. EMU made improvements, now its time for Akron and Buffalo to step up.
02-05-2012 05:30 AM
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emu steve Online
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Post: #3
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 02:21 AM)zibby Wrote:  We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.

No.

These things run in cycles and changing them for recent on the field performance is risky.

The current alignment is based on geography and rivalries.

Would anyone want to split Ohio and Miami? Western and Central? Toledo and BG? Akron and Kent?

In the 90s (I know that was a LONG time ago), but the power in hoops was the WEST. Ball State and EMU were the power houses.

That said, the imbalance in hoops is, in part, mitigated by offeromg tourney byes to teams based on conference record NOT divisional standings.

And who knows what this decade will bring?

Temple is up. Miami could return to their former glory in football. Kent may rise up in football.

Next year or the year after EMU hoops could return to its winning ways of the '90s.

The only problem I have and I think we all feel bad for them is BG. They have a quirky situation.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2012 06:48 AM by emu steve.)
02-05-2012 06:46 AM
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zibby Offline
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RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 05:30 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships.

It was 12-7 last year. The Ford Field games are 5 West, 3 East and at least two of those East wins were huge upsets. I don't recall if 2005 Akron-NIU was an upset or not.
02-05-2012 08:10 AM
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Howl-n-Prowl Away
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RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
03-no

Just get rid of Divisions in Basketball.
02-05-2012 11:38 AM
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Howl-n-Prowl Away
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Post: #6
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 05:30 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 02:21 AM)zibby Wrote:  We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.

one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships. NIU and Toledo fans like to think that they are heads and shoulders above the East, they're not. NIU didn't win the MACC as much as Ohio epically choked it away. The imbalance in divisions isn't on the top end, its on the bottom. EMU made improvements, now its time for Akron and Buffalo to step up.

NIU choked in that game far worse than Ohio did, and still came up with the win.

Keep on keeping on. Y'all are improving every year, but you ain't there yet.
02-05-2012 11:50 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 08:10 AM)zibby Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 05:30 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships.

It was 12-7 last year. The Ford Field games are 5 West, 3 East and at least two of those East wins were huge upsets. I don't recall if 2005 Akron-NIU was an upset or not.

Pretty sure NIU was favored in that game. Although Akron did beat NIU earlier that season.
02-05-2012 11:54 AM
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uakronkid Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
I think the new tournament format will help over the next few years.
02-05-2012 12:07 PM
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epasnoopy Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 05:30 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 02:21 AM)zibby Wrote:  We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.

one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships. NIU and Toledo fans like to think that they are heads and shoulders above the East, they're not. NIU didn't win the MACC as much as Ohio epically choked it away. The imbalance in divisions isn't on the top end, its on the bottom. EMU made improvements, now its time for Akron and Buffalo to step up.

NIU is 26-8 against East teams since 2000. Toledo is 22-11 against East teams since 2000.

I'd say NIU was the one choking the game away with careless turnovers.
02-05-2012 12:44 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 05:30 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 02:21 AM)zibby Wrote:  We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.

one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships. NIU and Toledo fans like to think that they are heads and shoulders above the East, they're not. NIU didn't win the MACC as much as Ohio epically choked it away. The imbalance in divisions isn't on the top end, its on the bottom. EMU made improvements, now its time for Akron and Buffalo to step up.

Rockets have only 2 MAC losses to NIU the past two seasons with wins@Temple and OU. Bobkitties have lost 12 straight to Toledo. With 3 solid FB recruiting classes, the Rockets' record against the MAC East is not likely to change soon.
02-05-2012 01:13 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 05:30 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 02:21 AM)zibby Wrote:  We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.

one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships. NIU and Toledo fans like to think that they are heads and shoulders above the East, they're not. NIU didn't win the MACC as much as Ohio epically choked it away. The imbalance in divisions isn't on the top end, its on the bottom. EMU made improvements, now its time for Akron and Buffalo to step up.

The football imbalance isn't as great at the rediculous basketball inbalance and honestly the football imbalance doesn't matter because nothing is on the line but a MAC Championship.

I think the East schools in basketball are wary of playing the West home-home for the damage it will do the RPI. The MAC East setup has been a tremendous success for Kent State and Akron who get to play home and home with Ohio, Buffalo, BG, Miami and aren't stuck with directional city. At the same time I think its been a disaster for recruiting in the MAC West since they don't get to play the name basketball schools in the conference enough.

If a school like Toledo left the MAC for the alliance, I would be in favor of replacing them with another football only member like JMU and going to an 11 team basketball format with 20 regular season games. This way Ball State and Eastern Michigan can get 2 cracks at Kent/Akron to help recruiting and the basketball money is divided less ways.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2012 01:21 PM by Louis Kitton.)
02-05-2012 01:20 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 01:13 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 05:30 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 02:21 AM)zibby Wrote:  We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.

one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships. NIU and Toledo fans like to think that they are heads and shoulders above the East, they're not. NIU didn't win the MACC as much as Ohio epically choked it away. The imbalance in divisions isn't on the top end, its on the bottom. EMU made improvements, now its time for Akron and Buffalo to step up.

Rockets have only 2 MAC losses to NIU the past two seasons with wins@Temple and OU. Bobkitties have lost 12 straight to Toledo. With 3 solid FB recruiting classes, the Rockets' record against the MAC East is not likely to change soon.

Great.

Enjoy your Little Ceasar Pizza Bowl while the East Champ plays in Mobile.

05-stirthepot
02-05-2012 01:27 PM
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 11:38 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  03-no

Just get rid of Divisions in Basketball.

Winner!
02-05-2012 01:42 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 01:27 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 01:13 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 05:30 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 02:21 AM)zibby Wrote:  We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.

one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships. NIU and Toledo fans like to think that they are heads and shoulders above the East, they're not. NIU didn't win the MACC as much as Ohio epically choked it away. The imbalance in divisions isn't on the top end, its on the bottom. EMU made improvements, now its time for Akron and Buffalo to step up.

Rockets have only 2 MAC losses to NIU the past two seasons with wins@Temple and OU. Bobkitties have lost 12 straight to Toledo. With 3 solid FB recruiting classes, the Rockets' record against the MAC East is not likely to change soon.

Great.

Enjoy your Little Ceasar Pizza Bowl while the East Champ plays in Mobile.

05-stirthepot

A GoDaddy.com Bowl Sun Belt opponent would be a step up for the Bobkitties.03-lmfao
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2012 02:04 PM by Boca Rocket.)
02-05-2012 02:04 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 11:38 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  03-no

Just get rid of Divisions in Basketball.

I thought about how to execute a 12 team no division strategy and I've come up a quads idea whereby the schools are divided into 3 groupings for home and home scheduling.

No divisions with a 14 game conference schedule (6 games in quad)

Quad I: Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio
Quad II: EMU, Toledo, Bowling Green, Miami
Quad III: CMU, WMU, Ball State, N. Illinois

Advantages

-14 conference basketball games down from 16 to allow more customized schedules and less concern of a top flight basketball team being dragged don by the MAC schedule.

-Eastern Michigan and Toledo pick up home-home series with Bowling Green which is great for the fans of all 3 schools. EMU and Toledo only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, BSU, NIU four times a year instead of 8 times as they do currently.

-Ball State and Western Michigan would only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, EMU and Toledo six times a year down from 8 times.

-Buffalo and Northern Illinois on the fringe of the MAC geographic area would have 2 more opportunities to schedule locally to improve fan interest.

-A later start to Mid-American Conference play might be good in terms of building anticipation among the fanbase. To not start MAC play until the second weekend in January when the students are back in town on all campuses would be a nice feature of going to 14 games.
02-06-2012 07:08 AM
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Howl-n-Prowl Away
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Post: #16
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-06-2012 07:08 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 11:38 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  03-no

Just get rid of Divisions in Basketball.

I thought about how to execute a 12 team no division strategy and I've come up a quads idea whereby the schools are divided into 3 groupings for home and home scheduling.

No divisions with a 14 game conference schedule (6 games in quad)

Quad I: Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio
Quad II: EMU, Toledo, Bowling Green, Miami
Quad III: CMU, WMU, Ball State, N. Illinois

Advantages

-14 conference basketball games down from 16 to allow more customized schedules and less concern of a top flight basketball team being dragged don by the MAC schedule.

-Eastern Michigan and Toledo pick up home-home series with Bowling Green which is great for the fans of all 3 schools. EMU and Toledo only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, BSU, NIU four times a year instead of 8 times as they do currently.

-Ball State and Western Michigan would only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, EMU and Toledo six times a year down from 8 times.

-Buffalo and Northern Illinois on the fringe of the MAC geographic area would have 2 more opportunities to schedule locally to improve fan interest.

-A later start to Mid-American Conference play might be good in terms of building anticipation among the fanbase. To not start MAC play until the second weekend in January when the students are back in town on all campuses would be a nice feature of going to 14 games.

I like this better than the current set-up.

How do other large (12+ member) conferences without divisions set up their scheduling?
02-06-2012 11:58 AM
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mollautt Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-05-2012 05:30 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 02:21 AM)zibby Wrote:  We all know about the imbalance in basketball.

I was curious about how imbalanced football is so I went back and looked at all the games from last season. The West won inter-division games 15-4 (including the championship game).

I have no idea how to divide the teams in a way that makes sense, just throwing it out there.

one season is too small of a snap shot. there's no great imbalance, The East has won 5 of the last 10 championships. NIU and Toledo fans like to think that they are heads and shoulders above the East, they're not. NIU didn't win the MACC as much as Ohio epically choked it away. The imbalance in divisions isn't on the top end, its on the bottom. EMU made improvements, now its time for Akron and Buffalo to step up.

=>The imbalance in basketball has been incredible. 2004 was the last year that the divisions were equal in hoops. For the last 7 years, East has clearly dominated. The odd thing is, the West has the better facilities (NIU, EMU, BSU, Toledo) that are support to attract recruits.

But in football, the West has been much better. Even though the East has won it's share of MAC titles, the West has been pretty dominant in regular season games, even after Toledo fell off the map for a while. The East division is now the Frank Solich invitational with 1 or 2 other teams stepping up each season to challenge Ohio each season and then fading away.

I used to think this was all cyclical, but now
02-06-2012 01:37 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-06-2012 07:08 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 11:38 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  03-no

Just get rid of Divisions in Basketball.

I thought about how to execute a 12 team no division strategy and I've come up a quads idea whereby the schools are divided into 3 groupings for home and home scheduling.

No divisions with a 14 game conference schedule (6 games in quad)

Quad I: Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio
Quad II: EMU, Toledo, Bowling Green, Miami
Quad III: CMU, WMU, Ball State, N. Illinois

Advantages

-14 conference basketball games down from 16 to allow more customized schedules and less concern of a top flight basketball team being dragged don by the MAC schedule.

-Eastern Michigan and Toledo pick up home-home series with Bowling Green which is great for the fans of all 3 schools. EMU and Toledo only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, BSU, NIU four times a year instead of 8 times as they do currently.

-Ball State and Western Michigan would only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, EMU and Toledo six times a year down from 8 times.

-Buffalo and Northern Illinois on the fringe of the MAC geographic area would have 2 more opportunities to schedule locally to improve fan interest.

-A later start to Mid-American Conference play might be good in terms of building anticipation among the fanbase. To not start MAC play until the second weekend in January when the students are back in town on all campuses would be a nice feature of going to 14 games.

Question: Why do you call them quads when there are 3 of them? 03-confused
02-06-2012 01:58 PM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-06-2012 01:58 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 07:08 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 11:38 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  03-no

Just get rid of Divisions in Basketball.

I thought about how to execute a 12 team no division strategy and I've come up a quads idea whereby the schools are divided into 3 groupings for home and home scheduling.

No divisions with a 14 game conference schedule (6 games in quad)

Quad I: Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio
Quad II: EMU, Toledo, Bowling Green, Miami
Quad III: CMU, WMU, Ball State, N. Illinois

Advantages

-14 conference basketball games down from 16 to allow more customized schedules and less concern of a top flight basketball team being dragged don by the MAC schedule.

-Eastern Michigan and Toledo pick up home-home series with Bowling Green which is great for the fans of all 3 schools. EMU and Toledo only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, BSU, NIU four times a year instead of 8 times as they do currently.

-Ball State and Western Michigan would only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, EMU and Toledo six times a year down from 8 times.

-Buffalo and Northern Illinois on the fringe of the MAC geographic area would have 2 more opportunities to schedule locally to improve fan interest.

-A later start to Mid-American Conference play might be good in terms of building anticipation among the fanbase. To not start MAC play until the second weekend in January when the students are back in town on all campuses would be a nice feature of going to 14 games.

Question: Why do you call them quads when there are 3 of them? 03-confused

They each have 4 teams in them.
02-06-2012 02:05 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Does the MAC need division realignment to fix imbalances?
(02-06-2012 02:05 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 01:58 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 07:08 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 11:38 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  03-no

Just get rid of Divisions in Basketball.

I thought about how to execute a 12 team no division strategy and I've come up a quads idea whereby the schools are divided into 3 groupings for home and home scheduling.

No divisions with a 14 game conference schedule (6 games in quad)

Quad I: Buffalo, Kent State, Akron, Ohio
Quad II: EMU, Toledo, Bowling Green, Miami
Quad III: CMU, WMU, Ball State, N. Illinois

Advantages

-14 conference basketball games down from 16 to allow more customized schedules and less concern of a top flight basketball team being dragged don by the MAC schedule.

-Eastern Michigan and Toledo pick up home-home series with Bowling Green which is great for the fans of all 3 schools. EMU and Toledo only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, BSU, NIU four times a year instead of 8 times as they do currently.

-Ball State and Western Michigan would only have to expose their RPI to CMU, WMU, EMU and Toledo six times a year down from 8 times.

-Buffalo and Northern Illinois on the fringe of the MAC geographic area would have 2 more opportunities to schedule locally to improve fan interest.

-A later start to Mid-American Conference play might be good in terms of building anticipation among the fanbase. To not start MAC play until the second weekend in January when the students are back in town on all campuses would be a nice feature of going to 14 games.

Question: Why do you call them quads when there are 3 of them? 03-confused

They each have 4 teams in them.

03-banghead didn't look at it that way. Just thought there would be 4 quads. Anyway, I'd prefer to keep it as it is. I don't expect the West to be down forever in basketball, or the East in football.
02-06-2012 02:18 PM
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