He might give ya 20 and he might play 30 minutes with two points. Sttreaky-freaky stats. I may be wrong about this, but I think that Murry et al have coached the talent out of him. He came in early with flair and a little swagger, but now he's hesitant and appears lost. Whatever natural catch-and-shoot gunner's rhythm he had coming in is nearly gone. He had 18 (IIRC) last time we played Belmont, but that was in a looser style of play when we were down big.

Obviously (word TM Bartow), he isn't a great set-piece defender, so we try to hide him in the pack of a zone, but he gets quick scores in the press has the potential to be a scoring beast. I hate seeing him or Jarvis just standing flat-footed in the corner, hoping something happens. Micah and Tubbs did the same damn thing, so it is intentional and useless.

We had a minute or so vs JMU with Cooley, Dubose, Poderis, Walton and Jarvis on the floor. If we're going to play something like a four guard lineup next year, then we're going to need some guys who can bomb from three. There's some real defensive liabilities there.

I think you're onto something, Wadood'.

First, Dubose was a model of efficiency and consistency at Mendocino Community College. The scouting report on Dubose was that he was a bona fide scorer who could fill it with an assortment of moves and with the least amount of shots necessary. Second, if I'm not mistaken, one of his official visits was to UNLV. The Rebels don't ask scrubs to campus. Third, and perhaps most importantly, his body language speaks volumes. He has lost--been stripped of--his "swag". He appears to fear retribution for taking shots. This fear has manifested itself into a subtle hesitation in his shot, causing him to misfire. Scorers need to have no memory, no conscious, and no one standing on their shoulder.

Based on these three factors, I too blame Bartow for this. Bartow's tentativeness trickles down, and certain players need the unconditional go-ahead from their coach, whether they hit or they miss (e.g., Tubbs and Williams). Pigram and Timmy Smith seemed to have "duck feathers" with Bartow, and therefore were okay with taking the ill-advised shot and hearing his wrath--because they could hit it!!!

Dubose has the skills and athleticism to be a 20ppg scorer. Unfortunately, Bartow's one-style-fits all approach with players is counterproductive, but he's too rigid to adapt to the player.

Tubbs is right up there. I`m still ticked at the piss poor way he was used in our "offense."

Should have been a 20pt scorer himself, sounds like Dubose is getting the same treatment.

players make plays, was no special offense for Tiggs or Pigram.. Just like there are no plays for Adam, he just more aggressive..

(01-31-2012 09:41 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  Tubbs is right up there. I`m still ticked at the piss poor way he was used in our "offense."

Should have been a 20pt scorer himself, sounds like Dubose is getting the same treatment.

(01-31-2012 09:41 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  Tubbs is right up there. I`m still ticked at the piss poor way he was used in our "offense."

Should have been a 20pt scorer himself, sounds like Dubose is getting the same treatment.

I'm not sure that Tubbs is a similar situation. Tubbs was not trusted to handle the ball, that's why he was a spot up shooter. The coaching staff didn't trust his decision making when he handled the ball and his teammates echoed that feeling. From what I've heard Tubbs was a freakish athlete and a combine-like superstar. He was always the best at drills in practice, but in game situations he was completely unreliable.

I don't know the answer, but I'd likely guess, with the number of players over the years, the answer would probably be "yes".
I'll just throw out some names, not necessarily claiming one or t'other was more mercurial - until the end, that is:

Corrie Johnson - when we look back on his career, we tend to think "wow, what a waste, what a missed chance at greatness". And yet his name is in the ETSU record books a few times.

Junior Floyd - 'nuff said. Could probably throw in a couple more from that team, but I'll let Floyd be proxy for that whole team.

whoever the guy was who couldn't play on Saturdays for religious reasons - his name escapes me at the moment. When he was good, he was very, very good. Was that Reggie Todd? I just can't remember, but think it might be.

some would say Tony Patterson, but I think he gets a pass because of his pretty severe and problematic knee injuries.

Chris Mitchell - woulda been a contendah if his stay had been long enough.

Isaac Potter - probably not well-rounded enough to be judged in this discussion.

Andrew Reed - one could almost make a case for him, although I think it might depend too much on one's definition of "mercurial".

Worley Ward - quirky, but always a hard worker, so probably disqualified on those grounds.

Skeeter Swift - certainly mercurial in personality, but I think not so much as a player, so he's disqualified.

D.J. McDuffie/Titus Shelton - could make second team, maybe.

Cliff DeCoster - hmm... he's right up there.

I'm excluding Leslie Brunn and Michael Tolliver because they were never good enough consistently enough to be considered in importance.

But the winner is, in a semi-landslide............................Tirade!

[footnote: I admit I'm giving "mercurial-credit" partially for his personality. One can't think about him otherwise. If one is *only* looking at his game, I think he's not the winner, because his game was on way way more than off.]

I haven't thought about corrie Johnson in a while. You talk about waste he was the epitome of it.

Players make plays? Really, that's your analysis???

Look there are styles of play that favor different skill sets. The ETSU "offense" is designed around one on one basketball and favors players who are adept at taking guys off the dribble and creating their own shot. For guys like CP and Tiggs the ETSU offense was a dream come true, it fit their game to a tee. Justin Tubbs did not excel at taking guys off the dribble and creating his own shot, same goes for Micah Williams. That doesn't mean they have no chance of contributing to offense, but the nature of offense itself limited their effectiveness. Tossing Kevin Tiggs into the HIGHLY structured and rigid Belmont offense would likely have the same effect. Sure Tiggs would still score, but not at the rate or efficiency as he did in the much looser and dribble drive based ETSU offense.

When Tiggs and CP graduated ETSU was left with a number of players who weren't well suited to the previous offense. Despite plenty of talent, the scoring offense dropped like a stone. The team as a whole would have benefited from an offense less based on one on one, dribble drive, and more focused on motion, down screens, and curls.

If you don't adapt your system to the talent you have, you are doing yourself and your team a great disservice. Had we recruited and signed a bunch more CP and Kevin Tiggs like players that would be one thing.

We didn't.

Well said.

(02-01-2012 03:52 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  Players make plays? Really, that's your analysis???

Look there are styles of play that favor different skill sets. The ETSU "offense" is designed around one on one basketball and favors players who are adept at taking guys off the dribble and creating their own shot. For guys like CP and Tiggs the ETSU offense was a dream come true, it fit their game to a tee. Justin Tubbs did not excel at taking guys off the dribble and creating his own shot, same goes for Micah Williams. That doesn't mean they have no chance of contributing to offense, but the nature of offense itself limited their effectiveness. Tossing Kevin Tiggs into the HIGHLY structured and rigid Belmont offense would likely have the same effect. Sure Tiggs would still score, but not at the rate or efficiency as he did in the much looser and dribble drive based ETSU offense.

When Tiggs and CP graduated ETSU was left with a number of players who weren't well suited to the previous offense. Despite plenty of talent, the scoring offense dropped like a stone. The team as a whole would have benefited from an offense less based on one on one, dribble drive, and more focused on motion, down screens, and curls.

If you don't adapt your system to the talent you have, you are doing yourself and your team a great disservice. Had we recruited and signed a bunch more CP and Kevin Tiggs like players that would be one thing.

We didn't.

Incisive, Bucnut.

I'll add this remark: Players come to ETSU for a reason, and in no way, shape, or form do I mean that disparagingly. If Mike Smith was 6'8" with his skill level he would've been at Missouri; If Kevin Tiggs was 6'6"+ he would've been at a place like Michigan; If Adam Sollazzo would've been at his current stage of development his senior year of high school we wouldn't have landed him. And the examples go on and on and on....Our players come here because they have deficits.

It is our coaches job to develop these players. Bartow has failed on many occasions in developing players.

I've said this on several occasions, but I always that Tiras Wade had NBA talent. With his length, athleticism, and skill, he could have been a poor-man's version of Kevin Martin.

Who was Corrie Johnson?

I agree about Tiras. Too bad he didn't have his head on straight. I met the guy a few times while he was at ETSU. Seemed like a great person. I guess he just let his emotions get the best of him sometimes.

We'll likely never know the truth about what/why Tiras never could please either Eddie D. or bartow. I knew him personally too (though not closely), and thought he was a great kid. I obviously can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure at least bartow shares some (or maybe even most) of the blame for his turn. If there ever was a case where a coach, or coaches, needed to adjust a little to the player, this was it. We all know bartow is too rigid, and I think deep down Eddie D. had a heart, but just couldn't get all the factors to fall into place. I know he had a death to the closest person in the world to him at that time (which I can't remember whether it was his mother or grandmother), and he needed some space there temporarily. Anyway, I'm thankful I got to see him as much as I did.

(02-01-2012 05:22 PM)Bucfaithful Wrote:  Who was Corrie Johnson?

Multiple references in this thread:

Corrie Johnson highly touted

From my post #24 in that thread:

"Everybody easily remembers all the hype about Nuckles, as he was supposed to be the whole package, but check out Corrie Johnson's high school stats. Didn't he average like close to 40? I may remember that number wrong, but it was just a huge number. Expectations were VERY high for him.

[Just a quick addendum....... found this by googling]:

"Here are some of Corrie Johnson's accomplishments.. Had 3004 career points.. Made 215 3's in a season (state record).. Made 16 3's in one game.. Scored 74 points in a game..."

"...No one could score as quickly as Corrie Johnson, just a few names of interest."

[I think that 3004 points was in only 3 years.]

And I think, according to this, he still holds the national record for 3-pointers in a season:

. . . . . . Most Three-Point Field Goals Made in One Season . . . . . .

215 Corrie Johnson (Hardin County, TN) 1992/93
201 Jerry Katt (Fayetteville, TX) 1988/89
198 Todd Briley (Midland Crowley, LA) 1994/95
172 Darryl Wilson (Millport South Lamar, AL) 1991/92
166 Cale Black (Crossville, AL) 1989/90

[Whoops. That's been topped by Demond Carter]:

"The national high school record for three-point shots made in a season. The record was 215. Carter now has 246 for Reserve. (Related: Carter tops in preps record books)""

Looks like you asked a similar question back in Sept. 2008 in that thread (post #29).

As I recall, he selected ETSU over Memphis and Arkansas, among others....

I remember that conversation now. Wow! He put up some ridiculous numbers.

Yes, and no one could quite put their finger on what wasn't working as well as it should have. Great shooter, great instincts, but somehow it seemed to be a chemistry problem. Just didn't mesh, and that likely was largely the fault of some of his teammates at the time. After all, he was on that team with Doggett, Floyd, Perkins, McClellan, Herman, Brunn, etc. I think that was Silvers's senior year? It may also have been Patterson's freshman year (or first year after transfer?), and/or Phil Powe's first year.

The fact that all this was right after the "glory years" made it especially hard to take.

Gosh what a team that could have been.....

I also liked Tiras Wade personally. Frankly, I think he got a bad rap here.

What?!?!?! Are you saying we agree on something?!?!?

I always thought he got into an altercation with Shannon Huffstetler in practice one day, which ended up getting the Huff a black eye. Wade pretty much rode the bench the rest of the year until Bartow got hired. Murry decided not to keep him on scholarship and he transferred to La-Lafayette.