(01-17-2012 02:02 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 01:01 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Yes it should matter. Nobody who believes in a talking snake, virgin birth, that the world is 5,000 years old, that man lived with dinosaurs, that a man lived inside a whale, that they have magical underwear that protects them from bullets, that they know how the world is going to end and that some day the stars are going to fall from the sky to earth etc, is safe to entrust with the world's most powerful military literally capable of ending life as we know it and many times over.

And that's the non-"weirdo" religions!

Like I said... It matters more to the progressive left what a persons personal beliefs are than it does to conservatives on the right..

Thanks for the assist Max

I'm not so sure. I vote for Christians (primarily because I rarely have a choice). But most Americans according to a 2007 Gallup poll said they would not vote for an atheist:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/26611/some-am...dates.aspx

(01-17-2012 02:18 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 02:02 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 01:01 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Yes it should matter. Nobody who believes in a talking snake, virgin birth, that the world is 5,000 years old, that man lived with dinosaurs, that a man lived inside a whale, that they have magical underwear that protects them from bullets, that they know how the world is going to end and that some day the stars are going to fall from the sky to earth etc, is safe to entrust with the world's most powerful military literally capable of ending life as we know it and many times over.

And that's the non-"weirdo" religions!

Like I said... It matters more to the progressive left what a persons personal beliefs are than it does to conservatives on the right..

Thanks for the assist Max

I'm not so sure. I vote for Christians (primarily because I rarely have a choice). But most Americans according to a 2007 Gallup poll said they would not vote for an atheist:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/26611/some-am...dates.aspx

Nice way to walk that back but your entire post speaks for itself. *IF* you had a choice you would vote for the Atheist. The fact you vote for the less religious person each time is not really a feather in your cap of tolerance.

(01-17-2012 02:10 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 01:01 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Yes it should matter. Nobody who believes in a talking snake, virgin birth, that the world is 5,000 years old, that man lived with dinosaurs, that a man lived inside a whale, that they have magical underwear that protects them from bullets, that they know how the world is going to end and that some day the stars are going to fall from the sky to earth etc, is safe to entrust with the world's most powerful military literally capable of ending life as we know it and many times over.

And that's the non-"weirdo" religions!

Ah, the tyranny of the left again. They'd gladly disqualify anyone who doesn't believe just like they do. Max yearns to be the one telling everyone else what they can and cannot do.

Quote:Most Americans have an IQ below 100 but that doesn't mean we should have a stupid leader.

You don't even know that that means.

Oh, the irony is too much.

Quote:I'd much rather have an atheist than any religious person.

Yeah? How's that worked out historically?

Actually progressives are the ones repealing sodomy laws, legalizing gay marriage, legalizing drugs, etc. It's the GOPers who want to control everyone's lives, even though they talk like they own the word "liberty."

Whatever I don't understand about IQ I'm sure you can enlighten me on.

Unfortunately there haven't been many atheist leaders historically, but it's safe to say there would have been no crusades, inquisition or witch trials if atheists controlled the world in those time periods.

(01-17-2012 02:23 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 02:18 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 02:02 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 01:01 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Yes it should matter. Nobody who believes in a talking snake, virgin birth, that the world is 5,000 years old, that man lived with dinosaurs, that a man lived inside a whale, that they have magical underwear that protects them from bullets, that they know how the world is going to end and that some day the stars are going to fall from the sky to earth etc, is safe to entrust with the world's most powerful military literally capable of ending life as we know it and many times over.

And that's the non-"weirdo" religions!

Like I said... It matters more to the progressive left what a persons personal beliefs are than it does to conservatives on the right..

Thanks for the assist Max

I'm not so sure. I vote for Christians (primarily because I rarely have a choice). But most Americans according to a 2007 Gallup poll said they would not vote for an atheist:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/26611/some-am...dates.aspx

Nice way to walk that back but your entire post speaks for itself. *IF* you had a choice you would vote for the Atheist. The fact you vote for the less religious person each time is not really a feather in your cap of tolerance.

I don't vote for someone just because he's an atheist. It's one factor among many. My point was religion is not a disqualifying factor for me, like it is for most Americans apparently.

(01-17-2012 01:40 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 12:58 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 12:49 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  For someone who doesn't believe that any gods exist, it doesn't matter which diety is being worshiped since all would be deemed equally ridiculous.

That's a pretty ridiculous position. Very shallow.

Even among theories that are wrong, some are more obviously wrong than others.

Yes we know Torchy. Only YOUR religions is the real religion.

Nothing is more amusing than one religion mocking another. If you'd never heard of the Bible and someone started reading you tales about a talking bush and a rib creating a woman you'd probably think it was another Grimm fairy tale. Not a whole lot more plausible than Scientologists believing we're all alien souls expelled by the lord Xenu millions of years ago and brought to life in a volcano.

(01-17-2012 02:25 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Actually progressives are the ones repealing sodomy laws, legalizing gay marriage, legalizing drugs, etc.

So? That's neither a reference to "atheist" or evidence of anything beneficial.

Quote: It's the GOPers who want to control everyone's lives,

Says the one who tells others what they can and cannot do. Why not worry about yourself, Max.

Quote:Whatever I don't understand about IQ I'm sure you can enlighten me on.

I could address it, but no guarantee you'd get it.

Quote:Unfortunately there haven't been many atheist leaders historically,

Yikes, such ignorance.

How about the French Revolution? How about Lenin? Stalin? Mao? Pol Pot? Castro?

Quote: but it's safe to say there would have been no crusades, inquisition or witch trials if atheists controlled the world in those time periods.

Au contraire. The brutality of those leaders dwarfs the incidents you cite. And there most certainly were inquisitions, crusades and persecution of folk religions.

You've proven repeatedly you know nothing about history, logic or economics. You don't speak to science or math, so it's clear you don't know those subjects. Pretty safe to estimate that it's your IQ that's well below 100.

I think we can all agree that it matters...everyone who doesn't have beliefs like mine is wrong. And u know that we can never have an openly Muslim president. non religious folks want people who use reason and common sense. And religious folks want everything to be run by the bible. It totally matters.

(01-17-2012 02:35 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 02:25 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Actually progressives are the ones repealing sodomy laws, legalizing gay marriage, legalizing drugs, etc.

So? That's neither a reference to "atheist" or evidence of anything beneficial.

Quote: It's the GOPers who want to control everyone's lives,

Says the one who tells others what they can and cannot do. Why not worry about yourself, Max.

Quote:Whatever I don't understand about IQ I'm sure you can enlighten me on.

I could address it, but no guarantee you'd get it.

Quote:Unfortunately there haven't been many atheist leaders historically,

Yikes, such ignorance.

How about the French Revolution? How about Lenin? Stalin? Mao? Pol Pot? Castro?

Quote: but it's safe to say there would have been no crusades, inquisition or witch trials if atheists controlled the world in those time periods.

Au contraire. The brutality of those leaders dwarfs the incidents you cite. And there most certainly were inquisitions, crusades and persecution of folk religions.

You've proven repeatedly you know nothing about history, logic or economics. You don't speak to science or math, so it's clear you don't know those subjects. Pretty safe to estimate that it's your IQ that's well below 100.

I know everything about history.

The atheist leaders are mostly confined to the 20th century. Yes, the leaders you cite are/were atheist. That alone doesn't make them fit. Stalin was a petty insecure and paranoid man.

And I might just throw in history's greatest monster too. Hitler was a Christian, and a virulently anti-atheist one at that. (His worldview probably wasn't helped by the fact the Catholic Church was preaching the Jews killed Jesus BTW).....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitle...ious_views

Quote:Hitler often associated atheism with bolshevism, communism, and Jewish materialism.[61] Hitler stated in a speech to the people of Stuttgart on February 15, 1933: "Today they say that Christianity is in danger, that the Catholic faith is threatened. My reply to them is: for the time being, Christians and not international atheists are now standing at Germany’s fore. I am not merely talking about Christianity; I confess that I will never ally myself with the parties which aim to destroy Christianity. Fourteen years they have gone arm in arm with atheism. At no time was greater damage ever done to Christianity than in those years when the Christian parties ruled side by side with those who denied the very existence of God. Germany's entire cultural life was shattered and contaminated in this period. It shall be our task to burn out these manifestations of degeneracy in literature, theater, schools, and the press—that is, in our entire culture—and to eliminate the poison which has been permeating every facet of our lives for these past fourteen years."[62]

In a radio address October 14, 1933 Hitler stated, "For eight months we have been waging a heroic battle against the Communist threat to our Volk, the decomposition of our culture, the subversion of our art, and the poisoning of our public morality. We have put an end to denial of God and abuse of religion. We owe Providence humble gratitude for not allowing us to lose our battle against the misery of unemployment and for the salvation of the German peasant."[63]

In a speech delivered in Berlin, October 24, 1933, Hitler stated: "We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."[64]

In a speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934 Hitler states: "There may have been a time when even parties founded on the ecclesiastical basis were a necessity. At that time Liberalism was opposed to the Church, while Marxism was anti-religious. But that time is past. National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles."[65]

During negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of April 26, 1933 Hitler argued that "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith."[66]

Neither being Christian nor being atheist should be a disqualifier IMO. Both are capable of terrible consequences. But being dedicated to reason is on balance a good thing.

(01-17-2012 04:07 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 02:35 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 02:25 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Actually progressives are the ones repealing sodomy laws, legalizing gay marriage, legalizing drugs, etc.

So? That's neither a reference to "atheist" or evidence of anything beneficial.

Quote: It's the GOPers who want to control everyone's lives,

Says the one who tells others what they can and cannot do. Why not worry about yourself, Max.

Quote:Whatever I don't understand about IQ I'm sure you can enlighten me on.

I could address it, but no guarantee you'd get it.

Quote:Unfortunately there haven't been many atheist leaders historically,

Yikes, such ignorance.

How about the French Revolution? How about Lenin? Stalin? Mao? Pol Pot? Castro?

Quote: but it's safe to say there would have been no crusades, inquisition or witch trials if atheists controlled the world in those time periods.

Au contraire. The brutality of those leaders dwarfs the incidents you cite. And there most certainly were inquisitions, crusades and persecution of folk religions.

You've proven repeatedly you know nothing about history, logic or economics. You don't speak to science or math, so it's clear you don't know those subjects. Pretty safe to estimate that it's your IQ that's well below 100.

I know everything about history.

The atheist leaders are mostly confined to the 20th century. Yes, the leaders you cite are/were atheist. That alone doesn't make them fit. Stalin was a petty insecure and paranoid man.

And I might just throw in history's greatest monster too. Hitler was a Christian, and a virulently anti-atheist one at that. (His worldview probably wasn't helped by the fact the Catholic Church was preaching the Jews killed Jesus BTW).....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitle...ious_views

Quote:Hitler often associated atheism with bolshevism, communism, and Jewish materialism.[61] Hitler stated in a speech to the people of Stuttgart on February 15, 1933: "Today they say that Christianity is in danger, that the Catholic faith is threatened. My reply to them is: for the time being, Christians and not international atheists are now standing at Germany’s fore. I am not merely talking about Christianity; I confess that I will never ally myself with the parties which aim to destroy Christianity. Fourteen years they have gone arm in arm with atheism. At no time was greater damage ever done to Christianity than in those years when the Christian parties ruled side by side with those who denied the very existence of God. Germany's entire cultural life was shattered and contaminated in this period. It shall be our task to burn out these manifestations of degeneracy in literature, theater, schools, and the press—that is, in our entire culture—and to eliminate the poison which has been permeating every facet of our lives for these past fourteen years."[62]

In a radio address October 14, 1933 Hitler stated, "For eight months we have been waging a heroic battle against the Communist threat to our Volk, the decomposition of our culture, the subversion of our art, and the poisoning of our public morality. We have put an end to denial of God and abuse of religion. We owe Providence humble gratitude for not allowing us to lose our battle against the misery of unemployment and for the salvation of the German peasant."[63]

In a speech delivered in Berlin, October 24, 1933, Hitler stated: "We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."[64]

In a speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934 Hitler states: "There may have been a time when even parties founded on the ecclesiastical basis were a necessity. At that time Liberalism was opposed to the Church, while Marxism was anti-religious. But that time is past. National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles."[65]

During negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of April 26, 1933 Hitler argued that "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith."[66]

Neither being Christian nor being atheist should be a disqualifier IMO. Both are capable of terrible consequences. But being dedicated to reason is on balance a good thing.

Using the word "Hitler" should be banned like all other foul language.