Cat's_Claw Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:Uh, it said UC was up for consideration EXACTLY like Temple.  Now I'm not saying Louisville was the sole reason UC made the cut but to suggest that this is definitive evidence that Louisville's unanimous inclusion had nothing to do with UC's later inclusion is a reach at best.  If you don't think UC's relationship with Louisville or its proximity to Louisville were positives in its candidacy as the process moved forward than you are simply kidding yourself out of senseless pride.

I know I keep saying I don't have inside information, but I know a few things. I know for a fact that Louisville had NOTHING to do with getting UC into the Big East and UC's proximity to Louisville didn't come into play until AFTER Bob Goin contacted West Virginia and the Big East saw it as a positive LATER in the expansion process (around September). UC was never considered for Big East expansion until Bob Goin and Joseph Steger (later Nancy Zimpher), actively contacted Big East ADs and Presidents. UC and Louisville being a built in rivalry was a bonus. Bob Goin had to sell UC into getting into the Big East big time. The only active supporters for UC getting into the Big East were West Virginia, Connecticut, Syracuse and Boston College. It has nothing to do with pride, it's just a fact. Louisville had nothing to do with UC getting in, the four schools mentioned were the reason UC is in the Big East along with Mike Tranghese. I know Louisville fans refuse to believe this, but UC had to sell themselves into the Big East, just like Louisville, and Louisville's proximity was never a major factor. What got UC into the Big East were 5 things:

1.)Solid basketball

2.)upgraded facilities

3.)A huge T.V. Market

4.)Strong academics, UC's academics were far better then Louisville's and South Florida and that was a HUGE, HUGE deciding factor, probably THE deciding factor in convincing the Presidents of the Big East to add UC.

5.)A solid football program.

Other deciding factors were the Ohio factor, close proximity to not just Louisville, but West Virginia and Pitt, and Bob Goin's working relationship with a number of Big East programs. The proximity to Louisville wasn't anymore important then UC's proximity to Pitt and West Virginia. Louisville had very, very, very little to do with UC's inclusion in the Big East. They had as much to do with UC getting into the Big East as Pitt did. And that isn't an indictment of Louisville, it's just a case that Louisville didn't have nearly the pull that people thought they did.

How do you figure UC has "far better academics" than Louisville, last I checked UC was also a tier 3 institution?

I hate for this to get into a pissing match AGAIN but its blatantly obvious Louisville was in from the get go and UC had some convincing to do. I have no idea how CJ pulled from Jurich's statement of 'Louisville was out for #1' that we had no influence over who the secondary candidate selected would be. I want to make it clear that when I use the term influence I do not mean directly but by nature. I don't see how anyone with a straight face can tell me that the ready made rivalry with Louisville and the proximity with Louisville as a traveling partner had little to nothing to do with the inclusion of UC in the new conference. In fact there was resistance to UC as was reported back during expansion and there were questions from everyone concerning UC's NCAA compliance in these memos. UC is basically another Temple in terms of fan support for football but with a smaller television market. ECU though their product currently sucks worse than UC's has a much larger fan base. UC certainly had to sell itself and I guarantee you that Louisville was a major part of that sales job. Some things just make sense and bringing UC in to compliment Louisville is simply one of those things.

I use this same logic whenever SEC expansion becomes a topic and Louisville is mentioned simply because bringing us into the league opposite Kentucky creates a made for television national rivalry that easily competes with anything the ACC has. It is one of my central arguments as to why Louisville would make an excellent SEC candidate if they were expanding. Of course our top 10 football program fits in nicely as well but lets face it the SEC really needs basketball help.

Yes UL was already voted in by July 2003, UC was still in consideration. UC sent out their info as these papers suggest and the BE voted them in later in the year. I wouldn't be surprised if UL voted "yes" so I'm sure they did help UC in.

L-yes Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:Jackson,
It may be an error on my part, but when I click on your link I don't see the article. If possible, could you give a summary of what is said. Thanks.

-- Barry G...its not an article but more of a series of notes that were supposdly recorded July 9 2003 in New Jersey...among the notes of the meeting were several different expansion plans including merger of sorts with the CUSA football schools and a 9 team all sports league

-- According to the notes Louisville was the only unanimous choice to be in the league and at this time USF was rejected along with UAB, MArshall, ECU, Memphis and Southern Miss....Temple, UC were being considered for all sports and Army, Navy and UCF for football only

Jackson

Very interesting considering that from the content of those papers we should have a 9 team all-sport league now. You have to wonder what happened that caused them to change course when they seemed determined to move that direction. The SU AD even proclaimed he would resign his position if it went to the 16 team format (and he did). I'm scratching my head over this one... looks and reads authentic to me.

Edit: As for Hardesty's support of MU you have to wonder if that was token to get it in the minutes. He has to maintain appearances at home with the state government I imagine.

Easy answer. The whole meeting is based on an 8/9 scenario wherein ND joins the conference as a non-football playing member. That, in turn, would leave the BE bball schools with only five members. Hence, the football schools would have gotten to keep roughly $50 million in NCAA credits. What happened? My guess is ND said no to the plan. We are voting with the bball schools. Now, the dynamics change. The football school lose their credits and the bball schools are sitting pretty. With six votes, the bball schools control expansion of the BE. If they football schools want to leave, it is ok with hoops schools but the hoops schools keep the cash. If the football schools want to add BE members, they have to come up with a plan the bball schools will like. I guess the football schools chose the second option.

--I don't know about UL getting UC in...but a gentlemen on another board was saying that UL was very instrumental in getting USF aboard...Has anyone heard anything about this

Quote: I would think improvements being made at Memphis presently are a concentrated effort to be ready for the Big East split.

-- I would agree with that....it wouldn't suprise me to learn that Louisville or UC provided memphis with some "hints" that would make them more appealing to the BE football schools at a future date

Jackson

This thread is about to be shut down. The BEC has had the link stripped from the rivals sites.

As far as I know, yes, UL did play a part in getting USF into the Big East. I remember a story in the Oracle that quoted Jurich and that he wanted to continue playing USF as a conference member. Somethin like that.
Of course, USF had to prove itself to the other members to get in...if we didn't it would have been just like Marshall, where they didn't get enough support from other members to get the votes.
The october files state that members are required to stay 7 years, until at least the 2009-2010 season...and preferably 10 years.
That means a split will most likely happen for the 2009-2010 season.

L-yes Wrote:This thread is about to be shut down. The BEC has had the link stripped from the rivals sites.

glad i printed them LOL

tigerjeb Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:This thread is about to be shut down.  The BEC has had the link stripped from the rivals sites.

glad i printed them LOL

I saved a copy, and will e-mail it by request. PM me.

Quote:This thread is about to be shut down. The BEC has had the link stripped from the rivals sites

-- I guess that means its real then...looks like we weren't too far off with all of our discussions



Jackson

TexanMark Wrote:I would think improvements being made at Memphis presently are a concentrated effort to be ready for the Big East split.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is there any concerted effort to help Memphis by playing them. I know the OCUSA members (UL, UC and Cinci) are supposed to play them a set number of years in Football. I think some of the BE teams should schedule Memphis in some home and homes in FB and BB. If that happens that would send a huge signal that Memphis is next.

No clue. TN and Ole Miss are on our football schedules for the next 4-5 years and we only get 3 non conference games. We've played Cuse in bball 2 out of the last 3 years, had a home and home with Villanova, plus we played Pittsburgh. We have the existiing home and home with Providence.

Also something worth considering, these were the candidates chosen for an immediate emergency expansion. If the Big East (or EAC I guess since it's more clear than ever that the bb schools will get the name) has the time and is not rushed, they may be more likely to take a 'project' team like UConn, or at least consider them.

Temple being 'considered for all sports' while Memphis, USF, and ECU are 'dismissed.' First of all, wow, the ONLY thing Temple has going for them is location, I think that shows what the ADs priorities are, or at least what they were in the most recent expansion. And a hats off to whoever USF has in charge of the lobbying department, must have been a very charismatic guy.

Quote:And a hats off to whoever USF has in charge of the lobbying department, must have been a very charismatic guy.

or able to suck a mean dick, you make the call.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...We'd like to meet him, huh aquid.

first of all... wow. these papers are amazingly interesting.

I am guessing that there were things that came up in the discussions w/ the 5 bb schools that led the FB schools to change their minds about the 8/9 team league - or, at least, delay it. Then there was the BC debacle - who knows how that changed the dynamic.

Obviously there is not much support for the 16 team league among the FB schools. It sounds like what has been widely speculated - - - - a split down the road is a certainty. I wouldn't be surprised if the time table and details are already decided, or at least being actively worked on.

L-yes Wrote:I hate for this to get into a pissing match AGAIN but its blatantly obvious Louisville was in from the get go and UC had some convincing to do. I have no idea how CJ pulled from Jurich's statement of 'Louisville was out for #1' that we had no influence over who the secondary candidate selected would be. I want to make it clear that when I use the term influence I do not mean directly but by nature. I don't see how anyone with a straight face can tell me that the ready made rivalry with Louisville and the proximity with Louisville as a traveling partner had little to nothing to do with the inclusion of UC in the new conference. In fact there was resistance to UC as was reported back during expansion and there were questions from everyone concerning UC's NCAA compliance in these memos. UC is basically another Temple in terms of fan support for football but with a smaller television market. ECU though their product currently sucks worse than UC's has a much larger fan base. UC certainly had to sell itself and I guarantee you that Louisville was a major part of that sales job. Some things just make sense and bringing UC in to compliment Louisville is simply one of those things.

I use this same logic whenever SEC expansion becomes a topic and Louisville is mentioned simply because bringing us into the league opposite Kentucky creates a made for television national rivalry that easily competes with anything the ACC has. It is one of my central arguments as to why Louisville would make an excellent SEC candidate if they were expanding. Of course our top 10 football program fits in nicely as well but lets face it the SEC really needs basketball help.

You can beliee what you want to believe but the bottomline is that Louisville didn't get UC into the Big East and just because you were a unanimous entry DOES NOT mean you had to power to push for someone to get in. UC had to win their own way in with inside connections. The only school that can say they truly got UC into the Big East was West Virginia. I remember during the UC-West Virginia game at West Virginia where Bob Goin said that he told West Virginia to continue to mention UC's names in meetings. Fan support didn't have anything to do with anything. UC being "another Temple" had nothing to do with it. There was resistance to UC getting in because of academics so Bob Goin HIMSELF contacted the higher ups at the Big East schools and sold them on UC's academic profile. I'm telling you Louisville did not get UC into the Big East. UC wasn't invited into the Big East to "compliment" Louisville. That is a fact. No if, ands or buts about it, UC WAS NOT invited into the Big East to be a "traveling companion" with Louisville and that wasn't a major factor in anything.

Fanatical Wrote:Yes UL was already voted in by July 2003, UC was still in consideration. UC sent out their info as these papers suggest and the BE voted them in later in the year. I wouldn't be surprised if UL voted "yes" so I'm sure they did help UC in.

Louisville never had a vote and Louisville. The only team the recommended was South Florida. I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that UC and Louisville's invitations to the Big East were to completely different things and happened under completely different circumstances.

Jackson1011 Wrote:--I don't know about UL getting UC in...but a gentlemen on another board was saying that UL was very instrumental in getting USF aboard...Has anyone heard anything about this

Actually Louisville AND UC were instrumental in getting South Florida into the Big East after it became apparent that Memphis wasn't coming.

Cat's Claw, who cares? Cincinnati is in the Big East. Be happy about it. Who cares how it happened?

BullsFanatic Wrote:As far as I know, yes, UL did play a part in getting USF into the Big East. I remember a story in the Oracle that quoted Jurich and that he wanted to continue playing USF as a conference member.

I believe that quote came out after it was announced that the Big East was going to take South Florida, but I'm not positive.

3601 Wrote:Cat's Claw, who cares? Cincinnati is in the Big East. Be happy about it. Who cares how it happened?

Because what is being said isn't true and I'm just telling them why one side of the story is wrong. No name calling, just correcting people.