(12-11-2011 10:41 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 04:55 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 01:12 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 12:51 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 11:52 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Big Ten ($1,050,478,881)
1. Ohio State University-Main Campus ($131,815,819)
2. University of Michigan-Ann Arbor ($122,486,490)
3. Pennsylvania State University-Main Campus ($116,118,026)
4. University of Wisconsin-Madison ($93,594,766)
5. University of Iowa ($92,903,555)
6. University of Nebraska-Lincoln ($83,679,756)
7. Michigan State University ($80,963,182)
8. University of Minnesota-Twin Cities ($78,924,683)
9. Indiana University-Bloomington ($70,172,641)
10. Purdue University-Main Campus ($66,066,303)
11. University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign ($57,539,367)
12. Northwestern University ($56,214,293)

ACC ($860,547,975)
1. Florida State University ($86,946,503)
2. University of Virginia-Main Campus ($78,439,006)
3. University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill ($71,369,784)
4. Duke University ($67,986,188)
5. Boston College ($64,078,272)
6. Clemson University ($61,174,977)
7. Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University ($61,077,122)
8. University of Miami ($60,325,003)
9. University of Maryland-College Park ($57,765,018)
10. University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh Campus ($56,044,309)
11. North Carolina State University at Raleigh ($54,711,001)
12. Syracuse University ($51,433,840)
13. Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus ($46,910,364)
14. Wake Forest University ($42,286,588)

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

Its all about the money first and foremost. If the average aggregate is more in the B1G then programs like Maryland, at a school having financial issues, and Virginia would make more in the B1G. They would also have a better chance at bowls when Bowls begin picking and choosing who they have partnerships with.

So.....come on man.

So.....explain Northwestern to me. #12 academically. In a city of 3.7 million with no other college team. Makes less than UVA (#25).
Or.....Illinois. #45 academically. 138 miles from Chicago, 126 miles from Indianapolis (>750,000). Makes about the same as Maryland (#55).
Seems to me that the only way to make BIG money in the B1G is to have a 100,000 seat stadium and be the only university around. Neither is an option for UVa or Maryland.

Chicago is Bears town. That is why Northwestern and Illinois scheduled their game at Wrigley, to try and stir up interest. Northwestern is an elite school, not really one that most Chicago folks are going to embrace en masse. I would say just as many people there would follow Illinois then they would Northwestern. Folks in Chicago have all the other traditional Big Ten powers surrounding them to watch on Saturdays as well. That wouldn't be the case for Maryland and Virginia as those fans wouldn't have grown up watching Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa and Michigan State instead of their Maryland or Virginia.

Basically what I am getting at here is I dont see the correlation of your comparison between Northwestern and Virginia/Maryland. The Big Ten network will get them instant tv coverage as well as much more Tier 1 coverage as they will be a novelty early on. Also a middle of the pack finish in the B1G earns a better bowl then a middle of the pack finish in the ACC.

To finish my point and completely refute yours.....

5. University of Iowa ($92,903,555)

Kinnick Stadium capacity: 70,585

Its not about getting Maryland up to making the same amount of money as Michigan or Ohio State. It is about getting them to middle of the pack which will be more then they are making now.

For Virginia they will make more but they will also have a chance to not be overshadowed by Virginia Tech.

Actually you completely missed my points:
1. UVa and MD are similar to Northwestern and Illinois.
2. Just being in the B10 doesn't guarantee you a bigger payday.

VT has much better football. But UVa is better in all the other sports. I think that shadow changes with the seasons.

You said that it seemed to you that the ONLY way to make big money in the big ten is to have a 100,000 seat stadium and be the only university around. Well I responded to that statement which seemed to be the premise of your post so I dont think I completed missed any of your points but I will respond to this latest post. To continue though Michigan may have a stadium that houses over 100,000 but it is hardly the only show around. With Michigan State and the other Division 1 college programs as well as a Professional football team in the state they have plenty of competition. I could continue to point out how that statement of yours was completely off the mark but I do believe my Iowa numbers were enough to prove it was off the mark so I will stop with that.

Virginia and Maryland are their own cases. They will succeed and fail based upon their own merits and their own circumstances. There are no identical circumstances.

The people in Illinois for quite some time have written off the University of Illinois as a competitive football team in the B1G. I know this because I live right on the border and know lots of Illinois fans. Most of them follow professional football first because Illinois football just doesn't excite them and it hasn't for many years. Northwestern is an elite small school so expecting hordes of people to follow them is just not a rational expectation. Yes they are in Chicago but so what? Virginia and Maryland are flagship state schools, they are nothing like Northwestern at all.

Both schools would instantly see an influx of cash from the Big Ten Network. Both schools would instantly be thrust into the limelight because the move would be sensational and the Press would be all over it. Their games in The Horseshoe, in Happy Valley, in The Big House would get definite television exposure because of all the sensation and hype around the B1G raid of the ACC. It would be an overall experience for the Maryland and Virginia programs of reinvigoration.

Maryland would have a new natural rival in Penn State and would keep their rivalry with Virginia. Virginia would be in the same boat, keeping their rivalry with Maryland and still playing an ooc in state game against Virginia Tech while being allowed to build up new rivalries in the Big Ten under the big lights.

I don't know how much more money Virginia would make in the B1G but they would get out from underneath Virginia Tech and right now it has to suck to be bullied around by the team that you were politically forced into bringing into your conference. That is not a stat that can be easily tracked and compared but there is no way that is not a big deal for some of the big wigs of Virginia. Through history THEY were the big power in Virginia and now they are the second fiddle and will continue to be such as long as they are in the ACC with Virginia Tech.

As far as the "other" sports, only basketball has any influence on these types of decisions. The Pride has all gone towards football and that is where the Alumni and Boosters want to see success.

So I don't think Virginia and Maryland are like Illinois and Northwestern at all. Virginia and Maryland have a Big move they can make to get folks excited, Illinois and Northwestern do not. The Big Ten network WILL make Maryland and Virginia's numbers rise, Illinois and Northwestern already have that so their numbers really are not the same and Yes being in the B1G will mean more money for these two schools. I am not sure how you refute that with fact so I guess you would rather just deny it.

I'm not denying the B1G could raid the ACC. UVa isn't going anywhere without VT. I believe UVa or Maryland in the B1G would end up closer to the bottom than the top so there would not be much, if any, more money.

UVa and NW are similar in enrollment and academics. As are Maryland and Illinois. UVa may be the flagship but there are 4 other D1 schools in VA with larger enrollments.

Miami is a small private school (smaller than NW) in a suburb of a large city (smaller than Chicago). They managed to win national championships. The point is B1G money doesn't necessary lead to winning big.

Going 1-10 in the B1G is going to mean playing in empty stadiums and no TV games. UVa had one of their better teams this year and had to go to OT to beat Indiana. Ask MD fans about going 1-10.

Just saying...lol!

(12-11-2011 12:20 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 10:41 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 04:55 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 01:12 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 12:51 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  So.....explain Northwestern to me. #12 academically. In a city of 3.7 million with no other college team. Makes less than UVA (#25).
Or.....Illinois. #45 academically. 138 miles from Chicago, 126 miles from Indianapolis (>750,000). Makes about the same as Maryland (#55).
Seems to me that the only way to make BIG money in the B1G is to have a 100,000 seat stadium and be the only university around. Neither is an option for UVa or Maryland.

Chicago is Bears town. That is why Northwestern and Illinois scheduled their game at Wrigley, to try and stir up interest. Northwestern is an elite school, not really one that most Chicago folks are going to embrace en masse. I would say just as many people there would follow Illinois then they would Northwestern. Folks in Chicago have all the other traditional Big Ten powers surrounding them to watch on Saturdays as well. That wouldn't be the case for Maryland and Virginia as those fans wouldn't have grown up watching Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa and Michigan State instead of their Maryland or Virginia.

Basically what I am getting at here is I dont see the correlation of your comparison between Northwestern and Virginia/Maryland. The Big Ten network will get them instant tv coverage as well as much more Tier 1 coverage as they will be a novelty early on. Also a middle of the pack finish in the B1G earns a better bowl then a middle of the pack finish in the ACC.

To finish my point and completely refute yours.....

5. University of Iowa ($92,903,555)

Kinnick Stadium capacity: 70,585

Its not about getting Maryland up to making the same amount of money as Michigan or Ohio State. It is about getting them to middle of the pack which will be more then they are making now.

For Virginia they will make more but they will also have a chance to not be overshadowed by Virginia Tech.

Actually you completely missed my points:
1. UVa and MD are similar to Northwestern and Illinois.
2. Just being in the B10 doesn't guarantee you a bigger payday.

VT has much better football. But UVa is better in all the other sports. I think that shadow changes with the seasons.

You said that it seemed to you that the ONLY way to make big money in the big ten is to have a 100,000 seat stadium and be the only university around. Well I responded to that statement which seemed to be the premise of your post so I dont think I completed missed any of your points but I will respond to this latest post. To continue though Michigan may have a stadium that houses over 100,000 but it is hardly the only show around. With Michigan State and the other Division 1 college programs as well as a Professional football team in the state they have plenty of competition. I could continue to point out how that statement of yours was completely off the mark but I do believe my Iowa numbers were enough to prove it was off the mark so I will stop with that.

Virginia and Maryland are their own cases. They will succeed and fail based upon their own merits and their own circumstances. There are no identical circumstances.

The people in Illinois for quite some time have written off the University of Illinois as a competitive football team in the B1G. I know this because I live right on the border and know lots of Illinois fans. Most of them follow professional football first because Illinois football just doesn't excite them and it hasn't for many years. Northwestern is an elite small school so expecting hordes of people to follow them is just not a rational expectation. Yes they are in Chicago but so what? Virginia and Maryland are flagship state schools, they are nothing like Northwestern at all.

Both schools would instantly see an influx of cash from the Big Ten Network. Both schools would instantly be thrust into the limelight because the move would be sensational and the Press would be all over it. Their games in The Horseshoe, in Happy Valley, in The Big House would get definite television exposure because of all the sensation and hype around the B1G raid of the ACC. It would be an overall experience for the Maryland and Virginia programs of reinvigoration.

Maryland would have a new natural rival in Penn State and would keep their rivalry with Virginia. Virginia would be in the same boat, keeping their rivalry with Maryland and still playing an ooc in state game against Virginia Tech while being allowed to build up new rivalries in the Big Ten under the big lights.

I don't know how much more money Virginia would make in the B1G but they would get out from underneath Virginia Tech and right now it has to suck to be bullied around by the team that you were politically forced into bringing into your conference. That is not a stat that can be easily tracked and compared but there is no way that is not a big deal for some of the big wigs of Virginia. Through history THEY were the big power in Virginia and now they are the second fiddle and will continue to be such as long as they are in the ACC with Virginia Tech.

As far as the "other" sports, only basketball has any influence on these types of decisions. The Pride has all gone towards football and that is where the Alumni and Boosters want to see success.

So I don't think Virginia and Maryland are like Illinois and Northwestern at all. Virginia and Maryland have a Big move they can make to get folks excited, Illinois and Northwestern do not. The Big Ten network WILL make Maryland and Virginia's numbers rise, Illinois and Northwestern already have that so their numbers really are not the same and Yes being in the B1G will mean more money for these two schools. I am not sure how you refute that with fact so I guess you would rather just deny it.

I'm not denying the B1G could raid the ACC. UVa isn't going anywhere without VT. I believe UVa or Maryland in the B1G would end up closer to the bottom than the top so there would not be much, if any, more money.

UVa and NW are similar in enrollment and academics. As are Maryland and Illinois. UVa may be the flagship but there are 4 other D1 schools in VA with larger enrollments.

Miami is a small private school (smaller than NW) in a suburb of a large city (smaller than Chicago). They managed to win national championships. The point is B1G money doesn't necessary lead to winning big.

Going 1-10 in the B1G is going to mean playing in empty stadiums and no TV games. UVa had one of their better teams this year and had to go to OT to beat Indiana. Ask MD fans about going 1-10.

Just saying...lol!

Since we are just saying..... I will say that Minnesota made more than Virginia. You were saying about making no money and being at the bottom of the B1G? No one plays to empty stadiums in the B1G. Maryland is definately not a 1-10 team in the B1G and Virginia almost made it to the ACC championship. Sure it wasn't a fantastic season but they showed some life. Virginia could be successful in the B1G and they would be showcasing themselves against premier institutions that have teams they could possibly beat. They will never counter the speed of the southern ACC squads. They are better off taking on the styles of the B1G programs.

Give Virginia and Maryland a couple seasons of recruiting while on the bigger B1G stage then you would see how well they would do against B1G programs. Right now they are two crushed ACC programs. Maryland is crushed financially and is selling themselves out to wear some rediculous costumes when they play in order to try and drum up some support and funds. Moving to the B1G makes much more sense if they really want to make some cash.

As far as Virginia goes, I don't see how being tied to Tech is a winning situation for them. When they fought for Tech they were politically pressured AND they were still the dominant program in Virginia. They are definitely not the dominant program anymore and the political pressure of these days is about states being strapped for cash. IF an Institution can make a move that will bring in more cash for its program(s) then that is a hard move to block as a politician.

Came across an interesting item that I am sure you all were aware of. The BE has a rule that for non "pure team sports" you don't have to play the other teams in the league but you can still play for in the championship. Pure team sports would be football, soccer, etc. Non pure team sports would be tennis, swimming, etc. ND played 2 BE teams in tennis and 8 from the B1G (plus others). They may have met some BE opponents in other tournaments. They can still play for the BE championship. It would be hard to give that up and I don't see other conferences allowing it.

With all of this talk about joining the ACC, the attached article from earlier this year offers a perspective on ACC football finances: ACC Football No Cash Cow.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/...w/#more-36

Wait, are people really debating about the same Andy Katz who matter-of-factly said that Boise State was not moving to the Big East and had assured the Mountain West that they were staying?

Consider the source, folks. And consider the network. How many more times will ESPN "break" news citing "sources" that it turns out are nothing more than tweets from CBSSports before they begin to become suspicious of ESPN's integrity, veracity or ethics?

USFFan

(12-11-2011 01:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  With all of this talk about joining the ACC, the attached article from earlier this year offers a perspective on ACC football finances: ACC Football No Cash Cow.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/...w/#more-36

So, it would be better for a school financially to stay in BE rather than ACC?

(12-11-2011 11:17 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 10:32 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Terry, I can't stand the idea of the "subway alumni" ... people in other places rooting for a school that they have no conncection to. But I can verify that it exists. I grew up in a NYC suburb, in a Catholic neighborhood (Irish-Italian). My family was the only Protestant family in the neighborhood. I was told when I was about 10 years old by some older kids that there was something wrong with me and that I would go to hell because I didn't root for ND.

That kind of ND fan makes me sick. I saw them by the dozens. Excuse me if I still can't stand ND today. I only saw the dark side of ND fanbase, and there was a lot of it.

That was a bad experience for sure. I don't have a problem with subway alumns though. We all choose the teams we root for for different reasons. College football wouldn't be half as popular if people only followed schools they actually went to (wouldn't be enough attention for many games to be on big networks). Actually I think that's what great about college football. Some fans choose schools because they went there or know someone who went there. Some choose for state pride. Some choose for city pride. Some choose for religious reasons. Some choose because they liked a player/coach. (For me it's state pride all the way, being an alumni is secondary.)

The arrogance of ND is disgusting. Telling a child they would burn in hell, etc. And that was not an isolated incident. I don't get warm & fuzzy feelings when I see the golden dome. It was sweet when UConn beat ND in FB at South Bend in 2009.

I'll admit your point about rooting for teams other than your local team is valid ... as long as it doesn't reach cult-like status which I saw happen.

(12-11-2011 03:02 PM)samandrea Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 01:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  With all of this talk about joining the ACC, the attached article from earlier this year offers a perspective on ACC football finances: ACC Football No Cash Cow.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/...w/#more-36

So, it would be better for a school financially to stay in BE rather than ACC?

Why in the world would you conclude that?

(12-11-2011 03:16 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 11:17 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 10:32 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Terry, I can't stand the idea of the "subway alumni" ... people in other places rooting for a school that they have no conncection to. But I can verify that it exists. I grew up in a NYC suburb, in a Catholic neighborhood (Irish-Italian). My family was the only Protestant family in the neighborhood. I was told when I was about 10 years old by some older kids that there was something wrong with me and that I would go to hell because I didn't root for ND.

That kind of ND fan makes me sick. I saw them by the dozens. Excuse me if I still can't stand ND today. I only saw the dark side of ND fanbase, and there was a lot of it.

That was a bad experience for sure. I don't have a problem with subway alumns though. We all choose the teams we root for for different reasons. College football wouldn't be half as popular if people only followed schools they actually went to (wouldn't be enough attention for many games to be on big networks). Actually I think that's what great about college football. Some fans choose schools because they went there or know someone who went there. Some choose for state pride. Some choose for city pride. Some choose for religious reasons. Some choose because they liked a player/coach. (For me it's state pride all the way, being an alumni is secondary.)

The arrogance of ND is disgusting. Telling a child they would burn in hell, etc. And that was not an isolated incident. I don't get warm & fuzzy feelings when I see the golden dome. It was sweet when UConn beat ND in FB at South Bend in 2009.

I'll admit your point about rooting for teams other than your local team is valid ... as long as it doesn't reach cult-like status which I saw happen.

Other children teasing you with childish idiocy is a sign of "the arrogance of Notre Dame"? Maybe you need to bring your adult into a conversation with your inner child.

(12-11-2011 03:16 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 11:17 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 10:32 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Terry, I can't stand the idea of the "subway alumni" ... people in other places rooting for a school that they have no conncection to. But I can verify that it exists. I grew up in a NYC suburb, in a Catholic neighborhood (Irish-Italian). My family was the only Protestant family in the neighborhood. I was told when I was about 10 years old by some older kids that there was something wrong with me and that I would go to hell because I didn't root for ND.

That kind of ND fan makes me sick. I saw them by the dozens. Excuse me if I still can't stand ND today. I only saw the dark side of ND fanbase, and there was a lot of it.

That was a bad experience for sure. I don't have a problem with subway alumns though. We all choose the teams we root for for different reasons. College football wouldn't be half as popular if people only followed schools they actually went to (wouldn't be enough attention for many games to be on big networks). Actually I think that's what great about college football. Some fans choose schools because they went there or know someone who went there. Some choose for state pride. Some choose for city pride. Some choose for religious reasons. Some choose because they liked a player/coach. (For me it's state pride all the way, being an alumni is secondary.)

The arrogance of ND is disgusting. Telling a child they would burn in hell, etc. And that was not an isolated incident. I don't get warm & fuzzy feelings when I see the golden dome. It was sweet when UConn beat ND in FB at South Bend in 2009.

I'll admit your point about rooting for teams other than your local team is valid ... as long as it doesn't reach cult-like status which I saw happen.

That isn't "the arrogance of ND". That is the arrogance of some people who root for ND. You paint with a very broad brush.

I also obviously disagree with your definition of "connection" to a school.

My grandfather (born in 1864) and my Dad (born in 1900) became ND fans in 1913 when this little, unknown Catholic college in Indiana beat mighty Army by utilizing the then seldom used forward pass.

From 1913 through today, every member of my large, extended family have been diehard ND fans.

My parents chose to go the the Notre Dame/Purdue game for their honeymoon in 1939.

My brother's letters from South Vietnam in the fall of 1966 all started with the question "How did the Irish do?"

The last hours I spent with my older brother the day he died was when my family sat with him watching the ND/BC game in 2010. He died a few hours later.

In my view, state's rights died at Appomattox in 1865. I never got or agreed with the idea of everyone having to cheer for the state school.

I also do not think that you would be hostile to or reject the fandom of a UConn fan who did not attend the school and lived in Pennsylvania.

I do not think you would take this attitude with a non-alumni SMU fan living in Colorado.

I think that you limit your views to Notre Dame and its non-alumni fans (I prefer the term "fan" to "subway alumni", the latter being those ND fans who took the subway to Yankee Stadium in the 20's, 30's and 40's to watch the Irish play Army).

I think that you just dislike ND and look for reasons to dislike everything about it and its fans. That is your problem, not mine.

You don't see me tearing down other schools or their fans. I do often defend ND from attacks from other people. I try to use facts when I do so, not emotion.

So, I think that my family history and my being a "fan" for almost 50 years gives me a "connection" to ND. I recognize others may disagree but I get to decide that, not them.

(12-11-2011 04:13 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Other children teasing you with childish idiocy is a sign of "the arrogance of Notre Dame"? Maybe you need to bring your adult into a conversation with your inner child.

Older kids, adults, etc. It was all the same ... if you weren't Catholic and you didn't support ND in that neighborhood, it was said there was something wrong with you. And none of them went to school at ND or even knew someone who sent to school at ND.

My last encounter with a ND grad was when I was 18 ... my girlfriend's father (a ND grad with a 2-handicap in golf) wouldn't even talk with me because I wasn't going off to school at ND for my freshman year and I had a handicap of 18. What an arrogant a$$.

(12-11-2011 04:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 03:16 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 11:17 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 10:32 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Terry, I can't stand the idea of the "subway alumni" ... people in other places rooting for a school that they have no conncection to. But I can verify that it exists. I grew up in a NYC suburb, in a Catholic neighborhood (Irish-Italian). My family was the only Protestant family in the neighborhood. I was told when I was about 10 years old by some older kids that there was something wrong with me and that I would go to hell because I didn't root for ND.

That kind of ND fan makes me sick. I saw them by the dozens. Excuse me if I still can't stand ND today. I only saw the dark side of ND fanbase, and there was a lot of it.

That was a bad experience for sure. I don't have a problem with subway alumns though. We all choose the teams we root for for different reasons. College football wouldn't be half as popular if people only followed schools they actually went to (wouldn't be enough attention for many games to be on big networks). Actually I think that's what great about college football. Some fans choose schools because they went there or know someone who went there. Some choose for state pride. Some choose for city pride. Some choose for religious reasons. Some choose because they liked a player/coach. (For me it's state pride all the way, being an alumni is secondary.)

The arrogance of ND is disgusting. Telling a child they would burn in hell, etc. And that was not an isolated incident. I don't get warm & fuzzy feelings when I see the golden dome. It was sweet when UConn beat ND in FB at South Bend in 2009.

I'll admit your point about rooting for teams other than your local team is valid ... as long as it doesn't reach cult-like status which I saw happen.

That isn't "the arrogance of ND". That is the arrogance of some people who root for ND. You paint with a very broad brush.

I also obviously disagree with your definition of "connection" to a school.

My grandfather (born in 1864) and my Dad (born in 1900) became ND fans in 1913 when this little, unknown Catholic college in Indiana beat mighty Army by utilizing the then seldom used forward pass.

From 1913 through today, every member of my large, extended family have been diehard ND fans.

My parents chose to go the the Notre Dame/Purdue game for their honeymoon in 1939.

My brother's letters from South Vietnam in the fall of 1966 all started with the question "How did the Irish do?"

The last hours I spent with my older brother the day he died was when my family sat with him watching the ND/BC game in 2010. He died a few hours later.

In my view, state's rights died at Appomattox in 1865. I never got or agreed with the idea of everyone having to cheer for the state school.

I also do not think that you would be hostile to or reject the fandom of a UConn fan who did not attend the school and lived in Pennsylvania.

I do not think you would take this attitude with a non-alumni SMU fan living in Colorado.

I think that you limit your views to Notre Dame and its non-alumni fans (I prefer the term "fan" to "subway alumni", the latter being those ND fans who took the subway to Yankee Stadium in the 20's, 30's and 40's to watch the Irish play Army).

I think that you just dislike ND and look for reasons to dislike everything about it and its fans. That is your problem, not mine.

You don't see me tearing down other schools or their fans. I do often defend ND from attacks from other people. I try to use facts when I do so, not emotion.

So, I think that my family history and my being a "fan" for almost 50 years gives me a "connection" to ND. I recognize others may disagree but I get to decide that, not them.

Terry, I have nothing against you and you are correct; my problem is with many of the people that root for ND. It has nothing to do with the school itself. It's just that I've had many contacts with ND supporters and not one of those situations has ever been pleasant. And your point about fans from other areas rooting for a team is valid.

My situation is not unique or extraordinary ... there have been Auburn alumni who have lived in Tuscaloosa, and Michigan fans who grew up in Columbus, etc. I'm sure they would have stories, too. I can only relate what I've lived through.

(12-10-2011 11:12 AM)miko33 Wrote:  My opinion on all of this. If ND would ever desire to join the ACC, and the ACC has a choice for the 16th member between UCONN and Rutgers, Rutgers should easily be selected as the 16th school without a shadow of doubt. I know UCONN fans would bluster about how much better their athletic dept is, Davis Cup points, BB power to match up with the ACC schools, etc. etc. But the simple fact is that those positives are easily outweighed, IMO, but two simple facts:

1) Selecting Rutgers secures the eastern seaboard much more effectively than UCONN. This isn't debatable at all, because if you are going to venture into the northeast, you cannot allow NJ to fall into B1G hands if you are the ACC. NJ >> than CT for markets and population.

2) NJ >> than CT for FB and BB recruiting. Again, this shouldn't be debatable at all because CT, upper state NY and New England blows when it comes to FB recruiting plus BC already provides access to Boston for BB recruiting.

In the end if ND has a preference, you go with ND's preference, but I think if you compare both programs equally, Rutgers is much much more attractive than UCONN.

LOL at the Iowa fan that thinks the B1G would be able to poach ACC schools if ND joins the ACC. Dude, with ND, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, BC and Maryland, that makes the ACC the defacto northeast sports conference plus the ACC has the more prosperous parts of the south over the SEC - excepting FL and GA - and you would have to ask yourself why any ACC schools would want to leave. Long term thinking would show that the ACC would be much better positioned over the B1G based on footprint alone. I'm not knocking the B1G, but c'mon man.

Is this like when you said "The ACC could never poach The Big East?"

(12-11-2011 10:01 PM)War Torn Ruston Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 11:12 AM)miko33 Wrote:  My opinion on all of this. If ND would ever desire to join the ACC, and the ACC has a choice for the 16th member between UCONN and Rutgers, Rutgers should easily be selected as the 16th school without a shadow of doubt. I know UCONN fans would bluster about how much better their athletic dept is, Davis Cup points, BB power to match up with the ACC schools, etc. etc. But the simple fact is that those positives are easily outweighed, IMO, but two simple facts:

1) Selecting Rutgers secures the eastern seaboard much more effectively than UCONN. This isn't debatable at all, because if you are going to venture into the northeast, you cannot allow NJ to fall into B1G hands if you are the ACC. NJ >> than CT for markets and population.

2) NJ >> than CT for FB and BB recruiting. Again, this shouldn't be debatable at all because CT, upper state NY and New England blows when it comes to FB recruiting plus BC already provides access to Boston for BB recruiting.

In the end if ND has a preference, you go with ND's preference, but I think if you compare both programs equally, Rutgers is much much more attractive than UCONN.

LOL at the Iowa fan that thinks the B1G would be able to poach ACC schools if ND joins the ACC. Dude, with ND, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, BC and Maryland, that makes the ACC the defacto northeast sports conference plus the ACC has the more prosperous parts of the south over the SEC - excepting FL and GA - and you would have to ask yourself why any ACC schools would want to leave. Long term thinking would show that the ACC would be much better positioned over the B1G based on footprint alone. I'm not knocking the B1G, but c'mon man.

Is this like when you said "The ACC could never poach The Big East?"

No. I was not one of those BE fans that believed that the BE was untouchable.