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Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
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NJRedMan Offline
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Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
As we've seen with every single team changing conferences in the last two years it has taken weeks and months. Texas A&M and Mizz to the SEC took months. Pac-12's move with Colorado and Utah took weeks. The B1G's search went months as well. WVU to the Big XII took weeks. The only move that was "instant" was Pitt and Cuse to the ACC.

The few months leading up to Pitt and Cuse leaving was Pitt leading the charge to turn down the ESPN offer and Nova looking like they would be upgraded then at the last minute Pitt lead other FB schools against said move. Both of those decisions made the league look unstable and the leadership inept. Now if Pitt was in secret talks with the ACC about joining then they were doing these things to both weaken the conference to help their new buddies and also have an excuse for leaving. Now throw in the BC AD admitting that ESPN was involved in the raid and this goes a LOT deeper than just two teams leaving.

Thats why we HATE the ACC and why we now despise Cuse and Pitt. Well most of us anyway.
11-20-2011 09:45 PM
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OrangeCrush22 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 09:45 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  As we've seen with every single team changing conferences in the last two years it has taken weeks and months. Texas A&M and Mizz to the SEC took months. Pac-12's move with Colorado and Utah took weeks. The B1G's search went months as well. WVU to the Big XII took weeks. The only move that was "instant" was Pitt and Cuse to the ACC.

The few months leading up to Pitt and Cuse leaving was Pitt leading the charge to turn down the ESPN offer and Nova looking like they would be upgraded then at the last minute Pitt lead other FB schools against said move. Both of those decisions made the league look unstable and the leadership inept. Now if Pitt was in secret talks with the ACC about joining then they were doing these things to both weaken the conference to help their new buddies and also have an excuse for leaving. Now throw in the BC AD admitting that ESPN was involved in the raid and this goes a LOT deeper than just two teams leaving.

Thats why we HATE the ACC and why we now despise Cuse and Pitt. Well most of us anyway.

[Image: 1106514-cool_story_bro_super.jpg?1279885294]


The truth is Syracuse has been in talks with the ACC since before '03. VaTech weaseled in over us. The ACC was also in talks with Pitt all the way back then. That is why Pitt got in over UConn. That's why it got done so fast. This has been planned for years.

The Big East's failure to add more football teams, instead of DePaul and Marquette is their downfall.
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2011 09:56 PM by OrangeCrush22.)
11-20-2011 09:52 PM
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wildthing202 Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 09:45 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  As we've seen with every single team changing conferences in the last two years it has taken weeks and months. Texas A&M and Mizz to the SEC took months. Pac-12's move with Colorado and Utah took weeks. The B1G's search went months as well. WVU to the Big XII took weeks. The only move that was "instant" was Pitt and Cuse to the ACC.

The few months leading up to Pitt and Cuse leaving was Pitt leading the charge to turn down the ESPN offer and Nova looking like they would be upgraded then at the last minute Pitt lead other FB schools against said move. Both of those decisions made the league look unstable and the leadership inept. Now if Pitt was in secret talks with the ACC about joining then they were doing these things to both weaken the conference to help their new buddies and also have an excuse for leaving. Now throw in the BC AD admitting that ESPN was involved in the raid and this goes a LOT deeper than just two teams leaving.

Thats why we HATE the ACC and why we now despise Cuse and Pitt. Well most of us anyway.

This could be taken seriously if Pitt was the ACC's first choice rather than UConn.
11-20-2011 09:56 PM
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OrangeCrush22 Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 09:56 PM)wildthing202 Wrote:  This could be taken seriously if Pitt was the ACC's first choice rather than UConn.

Pitt was the first choice. The ACC was talking to them before the '03 raid. UConn was an FCS school. UConn was brought up by a few ACC schools, this go around. Numerous ACC schools shot the idea of UConn down. It wasn't just Boston College.
11-20-2011 09:57 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 09:52 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(11-20-2011 09:45 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  As we've seen with every single team changing conferences in the last two years it has taken weeks and months. Texas A&M and Mizz to the SEC took months. Pac-12's move with Colorado and Utah took weeks. The B1G's search went months as well. WVU to the Big XII took weeks. The only move that was "instant" was Pitt and Cuse to the ACC.

The few months leading up to Pitt and Cuse leaving was Pitt leading the charge to turn down the ESPN offer and Nova looking like they would be upgraded then at the last minute Pitt lead other FB schools against said move. Both of those decisions made the league look unstable and the leadership inept. Now if Pitt was in secret talks with the ACC about joining then they were doing these things to both weaken the conference to help their new buddies and also have an excuse for leaving. Now throw in the BC AD admitting that ESPN was involved in the raid and this goes a LOT deeper than just two teams leaving.

Thats why we HATE the ACC and why we now despise Cuse and Pitt. Well most of us anyway.

[Image: 1106514-cool_story_bro_super.jpg?1279885294]


The truth is Syracuse has been in talks with the ACC since before '03. VaTech weaseled in over us. The ACC was also in talks with Pitt all the way back then. That is why Pitt got in over UConn. That's why it got done so fast. This has been planned for years.

The Big East's failure to add more football teams, instead of DePaul and Marquette is their downfall.

So you support my point. The ACC has been talking to them for a while so with Pitt playing leader they were actually sabotaging the conference. They lead the charge to turn down the TV deal and were the team at the last second after supporting Nova's move up to say no and get WVU and RU to back them up.
11-20-2011 10:09 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 09:52 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(11-20-2011 09:45 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  As we've seen with every single team changing conferences in the last two years it has taken weeks and months. Texas A&M and Mizz to the SEC took months. Pac-12's move with Colorado and Utah took weeks. The B1G's search went months as well. WVU to the Big XII took weeks. The only move that was "instant" was Pitt and Cuse to the ACC.

The few months leading up to Pitt and Cuse leaving was Pitt leading the charge to turn down the ESPN offer and Nova looking like they would be upgraded then at the last minute Pitt lead other FB schools against said move. Both of those decisions made the league look unstable and the leadership inept. Now if Pitt was in secret talks with the ACC about joining then they were doing these things to both weaken the conference to help their new buddies and also have an excuse for leaving. Now throw in the BC AD admitting that ESPN was involved in the raid and this goes a LOT deeper than just two teams leaving.

Thats why we HATE the ACC and why we now despise Cuse and Pitt. Well most of us anyway.

[Image: 1106514-cool_story_bro_super.jpg?1279885294]


The truth is Syracuse has been in talks with the ACC since before '03. VaTech weaseled in over us. The ACC was also in talks with Pitt all the way back then. That is why Pitt got in over UConn. That's why it got done so fast. This has been planned for years.

The Big East's failure to add more football teams, instead of DePaul and Marquette is their downfall.

It's funny you picked that picture. Just like ancient Greeks apparently the Orange also like to bang little boys.
11-20-2011 10:10 PM
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OrangeCrush22 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 10:09 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  They lead the charge to turn down the TV deal and were the team at the last second after supporting Nova's move up to say no and get WVU and RU to back them up.

Wrong. Syracuse and Pittsburgh supported the TV deal. They were pissed that it was turned down. That is one of the reasons Syracuse left.
11-20-2011 10:11 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
I don't think Nova's move was "sabatoged," as it could still be revived.

The media deal, on the other hand, is really sketchy. As in, possibly actionable. Pitt lead the charge against it, and then they bolted a month later. Syracuse is in the clear, but Pitt has some 'splainin to do. Unfortunately, with everything else going on, I doubt anyone will ever force them to provide answers.
11-20-2011 10:22 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 10:11 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(11-20-2011 10:09 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  They lead the charge to turn down the TV deal and were the team at the last second after supporting Nova's move up to say no and get WVU and RU to back them up.

Wrong. Syracuse and Pittsburgh supported the TV deal. They were pissed that it was turned down. That is one of the reasons Syracuse left.

Wrong. Pitt was vocal against signing it.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journ...-Fees.aspx

I am wrong about Cuse. Most things don't point to them working against BE's best interests. Pitt on the other hand is looking a little shady in this whole thing. Their president was a leader in the conference and had a lot of pull. He had the power to pull some chit.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...ancellor/1
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2011 10:32 PM by NJRedMan.)
11-20-2011 10:29 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 10:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I don't think Nova's move was "sabatoged," as it could still be revived.

The media deal, on the other hand, is really sketchy. As in, possibly actionable. Pitt lead the charge against it, and then they bolted a month later. Syracuse is in the clear, but Pitt has some 'splainin to do. Unfortunately, with everything else going on, I doubt anyone will ever force them to provide answers.

If Pitt had real problems with it then it could have been addressed WAY before it was. The last second about face publicly really hurt the conferences image.
11-20-2011 10:30 PM
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texasorange Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
Who cares? St. Johns is irrelevant and your constant trolling is now boring.
11-20-2011 10:33 PM
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 10:10 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(11-20-2011 09:52 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(11-20-2011 09:45 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  As we've seen with every single team changing conferences in the last two years it has taken weeks and months. Texas A&M and Mizz to the SEC took months. Pac-12's move with Colorado and Utah took weeks. The B1G's search went months as well. WVU to the Big XII took weeks. The only move that was "instant" was Pitt and Cuse to the ACC.

The few months leading up to Pitt and Cuse leaving was Pitt leading the charge to turn down the ESPN offer and Nova looking like they would be upgraded then at the last minute Pitt lead other FB schools against said move. Both of those decisions made the league look unstable and the leadership inept. Now if Pitt was in secret talks with the ACC about joining then they were doing these things to both weaken the conference to help their new buddies and also have an excuse for leaving. Now throw in the BC AD admitting that ESPN was involved in the raid and this goes a LOT deeper than just two teams leaving.

Thats why we HATE the ACC and why we now despise Cuse and Pitt. Well most of us anyway.

[Image: 1106514-cool_story_bro_super.jpg?1279885294]


The truth is Syracuse has been in talks with the ACC since before '03. VaTech weaseled in over us. The ACC was also in talks with Pitt all the way back then. That is why Pitt got in over UConn. That's why it got done so fast. This has been planned for years.

The Big East's failure to add more football teams, instead of DePaul and Marquette is their downfall.

It's funny you picked that picture. Just like ancient Greeks apparently the Orange also like to bang little boys.

That a fan of a school affiliated with the Catholic Church would post this is the height of irony.
11-20-2011 10:44 PM
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Minutemen429 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 09:52 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(11-20-2011 09:45 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  As we've seen with every single team changing conferences in the last two years it has taken weeks and months. Texas A&M and Mizz to the SEC took months. Pac-12's move with Colorado and Utah took weeks. The B1G's search went months as well. WVU to the Big XII took weeks. The only move that was "instant" was Pitt and Cuse to the ACC.

The few months leading up to Pitt and Cuse leaving was Pitt leading the charge to turn down the ESPN offer and Nova looking like they would be upgraded then at the last minute Pitt lead other FB schools against said move. Both of those decisions made the league look unstable and the leadership inept. Now if Pitt was in secret talks with the ACC about joining then they were doing these things to both weaken the conference to help their new buddies and also have an excuse for leaving. Now throw in the BC AD admitting that ESPN was involved in the raid and this goes a LOT deeper than just two teams leaving.

Thats why we HATE the ACC and why we now despise Cuse and Pitt. Well most of us anyway.

[Image: 1106514-cool_story_bro_super.jpg?1279885294]


The truth is Syracuse has been in talks with the ACC since before '03. VaTech weaseled in over us. The ACC was also in talks with Pitt all the way back then. That is why Pitt got in over UConn. That's why it got done so fast. This has been planned for years.

The Big East's failure to add more football teams, instead of DePaul and Marquette is their downfall.

As an outsider looking in I believe that Pitt and UConn were looked at as an even number and Pitt had less problems getting voted in.
11-20-2011 10:51 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 10:44 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  
(11-20-2011 10:10 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(11-20-2011 09:52 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(11-20-2011 09:45 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  As we've seen with every single team changing conferences in the last two years it has taken weeks and months. Texas A&M and Mizz to the SEC took months. Pac-12's move with Colorado and Utah took weeks. The B1G's search went months as well. WVU to the Big XII took weeks. The only move that was "instant" was Pitt and Cuse to the ACC.

The few months leading up to Pitt and Cuse leaving was Pitt leading the charge to turn down the ESPN offer and Nova looking like they would be upgraded then at the last minute Pitt lead other FB schools against said move. Both of those decisions made the league look unstable and the leadership inept. Now if Pitt was in secret talks with the ACC about joining then they were doing these things to both weaken the conference to help their new buddies and also have an excuse for leaving. Now throw in the BC AD admitting that ESPN was involved in the raid and this goes a LOT deeper than just two teams leaving.

Thats why we HATE the ACC and why we now despise Cuse and Pitt. Well most of us anyway.

[Image: 1106514-cool_story_bro_super.jpg?1279885294]


The truth is Syracuse has been in talks with the ACC since before '03. VaTech weaseled in over us. The ACC was also in talks with Pitt all the way back then. That is why Pitt got in over UConn. That's why it got done so fast. This has been planned for years.

The Big East's failure to add more football teams, instead of DePaul and Marquette is their downfall.

It's funny you picked that picture. Just like ancient Greeks apparently the Orange also like to bang little boys.

That a fan of a school affiliated with the Catholic Church would post this is the height of irony.

Im not Catholic so i am not tied to the church so I dont care.
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2011 10:54 PM by NJRedMan.)
11-20-2011 10:53 PM
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onlinepole Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
The BE is losing 2 underachieving programs and likely gaining Houston (#8) and BSU(#7) who after next week if they win out will likely be ranked higher than that and both be playing in BCS bowls. If this is the BE getting sabotaged, I'd say bring it on 02-13-banana. The program I believe that made the dumb move is TCU. There are 4 top 20 ranked programs in the B12 next year and all are staying at this point in time. In order to get one of the 2 bcs bids the B12 normally gets, TCU is going to have to be competing with Okie, Okie St, Texas, Kansas St and now WVA. Sorry current BE members but that's alot tougher than Cincy, Rutgers, UConn, USF, LVille, Houston(likely),BSU(likely), UCF & SMU.

I want to know how the heck TCU didn't move up from 19 this week with their win and all the teams above them that lost?
11-20-2011 10:58 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
(11-20-2011 10:33 PM)texasorange Wrote:  Who cares? St. Johns is irrelevant and your constant trolling is now boring.

Trolling? It's a legit question. A month before they left Pitt lead the charge to turn down the ESPN contract. Were they in talks with the ACC at the time? Everyone who has followed realignment knows that it takes longer than a weekend to get these things done.
11-20-2011 11:02 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
If the league didn't know that Pitt was unhappy then it wasn't paying attention. There were several articles written in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette about how unhappy Pitt was with the Big East leadership and would consider a move to another league if the offer came. If the guys on this board knew Pitt was frustrated, then the BE leadership should have too

Jackson
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2011 11:08 PM by Jackson1011.)
11-20-2011 11:08 PM
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Steelbeard Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
Big East should have gone to 12 when they had the opportunity in 2003.
11-21-2011 12:53 AM
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
You're own link says that West Virginia was also a vocal skeptic of the deal and yet no blame for the 'eers? (BTW - the presidents voted 12-4 to accept its broad outlines with ND, SH, Gtown, and RU as NO votes). No blame for West Virginia AD Luck who was publically hinting that he was shopping his school around? No blame for the other 8 schools who approached the ACC about membership?

The schools accepted quickly because they knew that if they did not that the ACC was going to move on to other candidates. What did you expect?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...icial-says
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2011 04:23 AM by SoCalPanther.)
11-21-2011 04:17 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Did Pitt and Cuse sabotage the Big East?
This is an easy one.

Pitt, West Virginia and Rutgers were against signing ESPN's original contract offer and it is a good thing for the Big East that it worked out the way it did. Had the league agreed to that pact it would be stuck with by far the lowest media rights deal of all BCS leagues and it would have no hope of attracting Boise State, BYU, etc.

As for their defections, I know for a fact that they happened quickly. You have to understand that the B12 approached Pitt first and was VERY aggressive. They wanted an answer and they wanted it NOW! They were trying to get Pitt, Notre Dame and Arkansas. ND and ARK quickly said no but Pitt - who knew that the BE was messed up beyond words - said, "We're not sure. Tell us more." After the two spoke and exchanged info for 2-3 weeks, Pitt began to try to negotiate regional partners to come along with them - West Virginia and Louisville. The B12 was on board with that pending their media consultant's report.

During that period, the ACC - fearing that it was about to be shut out of PA, the NE's second most populated state, forever - then decided to make an offer to Syracuse and Pitt. Not coincidentally, New York is the NE's most populous state.

The ACC approached Pitt on like a Tuesday and about 11 days later the news leaked to ESPN that Pitt and Syracuse were leaving. As some of the others said, when Pitt decided to leave it wasn't a painless decision - we have a lot of great relationships in the Big East and a proud history there - however neither was it a difficult decision. The ACC just offered us more stability in a time when stability was/is king. Let's face it, in football the ACC has been just as average as the BE over the past several years and has received nowhere near the same level of scorn. Also, the SEC could swoop in and take any two ACC teams and that league is still going to be one of the big boys and have attractive bowl tie-ins. Conversely, even if the BE adds the non-AQ all-stars, it's always going to be scratching and clawing to garner any amount of respect. And even when their deeds merit respect there are still going to be great numbers of fans and media nationally who will refuse to grant them any respect based on inherent biases against the league and the Northeast in general. I've seen it here myself over the past few months and it will never change.

Finally, I want to address the basketball schools' role in this. I am not at all a hater of the basketball schools. Truthfully, once basketball season rolled around I always LOVED the Catholic aspect of the league. It felt like home to this Irish Catholic kid from Pittsburgh. Also, I agree with the assertion that most of the problems with the football schools are the fault of the football schools and nobody else.

However if the basketball schools hadn't been so damn strident about pushing Villanova I'm not sure that things would have unraveled as quickly as they did. Don't get me wrong, if the ACC had come calling we were gone no matter what. What alternative did we have? Had we stayed true to the Catholics, UConn or Rutgers would have happily taken our place in the ACC before you could say, "Holy Cross."

I just think - know actually - that Pitt and some others felt like the Catholics were ramming Nova down our throats even though it was obvious that they had absolutely no viable stadium or practice facilities plan and they were giving every indication that even if they did move up they would be doing so strictly to protect their men's basketball program. As such they would put the bare minimum of resources into D1-A football. Hell, VU came right out and said as much in their presentation to donors. They were calling it the "Duke plan." That scared the hell out of Pitt, Rutgers, West Virginia, etc., because it confirmed all kinds of fears those schools had regarding that school's candidacy and the Big East's commitment to playing big time football. Unfortunately the reaction we received from most of the others was basically, "So what? If you don't like it, leave."

So we did....without as much as one scintilla of regret. I still love the Big East and I'll be cheering for your teams when they aren't playing mine, but the Big East as a whole is responsible for the the league's apparent instability, not any one or two members.

Incidentally don't you find it peculiar/instructive that Villanova - which was allegedly an incredible candidate for expansion when the BE stood at nine teams - is now apparently off the table even though the league desperately needs qualified candidates? I find that to be amazingly revealing about the Wildcats' preparedness to play at this level and the other league schools' true feeling towards the Wildcats' candidacy.

Villanova football to the BE was, is, and always will be a HORRENDOUS idea. I'm not sure that it necessarily pushed the defecting schools out the door, per se but it certainly didn't help. No college football league can afford a Duke without also having a Florida State to counterbalance it. Vanderbilts are nice, but it is the LSUs that pay the bills.
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2011 06:48 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
11-21-2011 06:34 AM
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