GreenBison Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

GreenBison Wrote:

Bearcat T Wrote:With market size now a factor what does this do to the list of possibles if CUSA goes to nine or 12.  What happens if we split later do we lose our history as the Big East? If we did we could never leave the conference totally. Maybe we will be looking at two conferences all under one larger Big East name?   Does this go against say ECU as the seemingly next in line for football  or help?Does it favor  Temple back in as a player. You could have one that has better market but another that has better overall numbers? Who has market and a  chance for success maybe that is then Memphis? ECu and Temple would play football only
though and Memphis would not...Marshall would play football only but then the market size hurts them...  No clear answers on expansion??

Our market size isn't as small as you think. It's ranked 64th nationally, I know some WVU fans will say it's an overlapping market with theirs but the same thing can be said of Pitt's & WVU's market. Anyway, want I wanted to say is that there is also the intangible of National Excitement each team brings. I don't know what the numbers would be for that but I assume ESPN and the Networks have the numbers.

For instance say you live in Missouri and you're scanning the channels looking for a game and your team isn't playing. You find three games on TV... Toledo vs Bowling Green... Duke vs. NC State... and Florida vs. Vanderbilt. Which do you think most of the people will tune into watch? My point is it's not just your market it's also how many viewers you can bring in when you're broadcast nationally.

I find it hard to believe that Memphis and or ECU would play football only in the BE. Where would their other sports go? It's not easy to ask for admittance into another conference when they know full well that sooner or later you'll be moving again as soon as Memphis and or ECU can get their Basketball and Olympic sports into a better conference. That's the problem we ran into when we tried to join C-USA in 2001 for football only. We approached the So-Con, OVC and the CAA. None of them would agree to adding us cause they new as soon as we got the invite into C-USA for all sports we'd take it.

You make some decent points but consider what Marshall has to offer those lesser conferences as opposed to lets say Memphis. Memphis could go to the CAA for a few years and bring them some television revenue and a few NCAA tournament units not to mention invaluable exposure. MU basketball is cannon fodder, there isnt much incentive in your olympic sports either.

Memphis might be able to pull it off I guess. Actually no conference will find incentive in adding any schools' Olympic sports. Olympic sports are a loss leader anyway. Oh, our women's softball and tennis teams are excellent, but everything else is mediocre with room for improvement.

Memphis could return to the Valley. It is a decent bball league, and a very good soccer league. Wichita State and Creighton have good baseball programs too. The basketball rivals, or may be better than, NCUSA. The attendence is certainly better. It was clearly a better basketball league than the A-10 last year. However, I don't see the BE adding anyone right now. Why add another mouth to feed? None of the markets mentioned are huge, but for Phily (Temple). Plus, having 2 or 3 ranked schools in an 8 team league is much better under the new criteria than 2-3 in a 9 team league. Besides, I think the 16 schools want to give off the impression that everything is peachy-keen at this point in time.

1. I am less than a big fan of the SEC (because I hate UK...uggg) but whoever asked about their status in football must think the BCS has changed their criteria to be population only. Look at the original three criteria and the SEC has nothing to worry about.

2. People are looking at the populations of only the football playing schools in the NBE. Rivalries and commitment to your league will generate interest in our football even among the non football playing schools and their fan base. That could be huge. Chicago and Milwaukie along with Cinci and Louisville will give us a presence across the Mid-West. It won't be the same as the Big Ten....but it could make us viable in their market.

WVU and South Florida puts us in the SEC/ACC marketplace, then we literally rule the Northeast. I think if UMass were to make a commitment to Football, they have the potential to be dangerous (much like South Florida and UConn) and would give us that whole market...detracting from Boston U and the ACC.

cardtopper Wrote:1. I am less than a big fan of the SEC (because I hate UK...uggg) but whoever asked about their status in football must think the BCS has changed their criteria to be population only. Look at the original three criteria and the SEC has nothing to worry about.

2. People are looking at the populations of only the football playing schools in the NBE. Rivalries and commitment to your league will generate interest in our football even among the non football playing schools and their fan base. That could be huge. Chicago and Milwaukie along with Cinci and Louisville will give us a presence across the Mid-West. It won't be the same as the Big Ten....but it could make us viable in their market.

WVU and South Florida puts us in the SEC/ACC marketplace, then we literally rule the Northeast. I think if UMass were to make a commitment to Football, they have the potential to be dangerous (much like South Florida and UConn) and would give us that whole market...detracting from Boston U and the ACC.

I agree with everything you said. The perfect situation would be for UMass and Temple to get their programs back up to snuff by the time of expansion. If the Big East wanted to expand to 12 you could add UMass, Temple, Memphis and East Carolina. That solidifies the markets without ridiculously expanding travel.

Cat's_Claw Wrote:

cardtopper Wrote:1.  I am less than a big fan of the SEC (because I hate UK...uggg) but whoever asked about their status in football must think the BCS has changed their criteria to be population only.  Look at the original three criteria and the SEC has nothing to worry about.

2.  People are looking at the populations of only the football playing schools in the NBE.  Rivalries and commitment to your league will generate interest in our football even among the non football playing schools and their fan base.  That could be huge.  Chicago and Milwaukie along with Cinci and Louisville will give us a presence across the Mid-West.  It won't be the same as the Big Ten....but it could make us viable in their market.

WVU and South Florida puts us in the SEC/ACC marketplace, then we literally rule the Northeast.  I think if UMass were to make a commitment to Football, they have the potential to be dangerous (much like South Florida and UConn) and would give us that whole market...detracting from Boston U and the ACC.

I agree with everything you said. The perfect situation would be for UMass and Temple to get their programs back up to snuff by the time of expansion. If the Big East wanted to expand to 12 you could add UMass, Temple, Memphis and East Carolina. That solidifies the markets without ridiculously expanding travel.

For some reason I can see the BE adding Navy. Delaware might be a better option than UMASSdebate team.

Delaware has stated they have no intentions of laeving their current situation. As for the UMass talk, they have an article on their website that states they intend to move to 1-A. I would keep an eye on that.

Quote:As for the UMass talk, they have an article on their website that states they intend to move to 1-A.

Which website?

So which is it? Is the criteria these three things:

• Average ranking in the BCS standings for the conference's highest-rated team.
• Average ranking in the BCS computer standings for every member of the conference.
• Number of Top 25 teams.


Or, is it those three things, plus:

"However, Weiberg said that a conference could qualify based on "market size". That seems to give the benefit of the doubt to the Big East remaining in the BCS despite losing Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech. The league still has a sizable demographic on the East Coast."


Things still seem a little ambiguous here.






<span style='color:red'>The University of Louisville, 2005 BCS National Champions</span>

"Whether you think you can do a thing, or can't do a thing, you are right". - Henry Ford

nflsucks Wrote:

Quote:As for the UMass talk, they have an article on their website that states they intend to move to 1-A.

Which website?

<a href='http://umassathletics.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/121003aaa.html' target='_blank'>http://umassathletics.collegesports.com/sp.../121003aaa.html</a>

UMass To Lay Groundwork For Division I-A Football
Minutemen will remain at Division I-AA level for the time being.


Dec. 10, 2003

Guided by the findings of a feasibility report, members of a special athletics study committee today said that UMass Amherst should remain at the I-AA level for the time being but continue to lay the groundwork for an eventual move to Division I-A football.

"As with any major initiative requiring a significant capital investment, we need to make preparations and to be ready to strike when we see an opportunity that will bring us a high degree of success," said James J. Karam, co-chairman of the University of Massachusetts Board of Trustees Ad Hoc Committee on Athletics.

"There is a strong and eager constituency for Division I-A football, but we should not take this step until we have all the ingredients needed to make the move an unqualified and enduring success,'' added committee co-chair Robert Meers.

Meeting in Boston, members of the ad hoc athletics committee reviewed the findings of a study (available here) that examined the feasibility of creating a privately-funded Division I-A football program at the University's flagship campus in Amherst. Citing uncertainty in two critical areas - the economy and prospects for affiliation with a major conference - the authors of the study recommended that the University continue to build its athletics and football programs and revisit the Division I-A issue within three to five years.





The study, conducted by Chicago-based Grenzebach Glier & Associates, Inc., notes that, "The question of Division I-A football at UMass Amherst is generally regarded as a decades-long campus conversation."

During that period, the Amherst campus has fielded a Division I-AA football team that has enjoyed considerable success -- winning the Division I-AA national championship in 1998 and concluding a highly successful season in 2003.

The authors of the study cited an array of factors that would make a move to Division I-A football desirable, noting that a successful Division I-A program can boost student and faculty recruitment, energize alumni and generate additional private financial support.

The factors indicating the need for a more deliberate approach are the national and regional economic slump, which currently make it more difficult to generate the funds needed to make a Division I-A football program self-sufficient, and the recent athletic conference shifts, which raise questions about the availability of an appropriate conference affiliation.

Karam, a member of the University's Board of Trustees, said the study of the Division I-A football question, "is already paying significant dividends." Karam added: "As a result of this undertaking, we have developed a roadmap for success. We have been able to make powerful new friends for UMass Amherst football, and we see that UMass football is generating new levels of excitement and energy. This augurs well for the future."

Said Meers: "UMass Amherst football is heading in the right direction -- on and off the field."

Karam also said, "Under Chancellor John Lombardi's leadership, an athletics program that already enjoys considerable success is going to reach new heights.''

In an effort to position UMass football and athletics for greater success, the ad hoc committee recommended the following actions:

The Chancellor of UMass Amherst will develop a five-year plan for intercollegiate athletics that includes the continued development of the current football program at Division I-AA level (with scholarships). This plan will include the following elements:


Development of 501c3 athletic association to encompass the entire intercollegiate athletic department's revenue and expenses.
Development of a fundraising plan capable of sustaining the intercollegiate athletic program at competitive levels for football and the other sports the university sponsors.
Development of a capital plan to address facilities issues for football at the Division I-AA level and other sponsored sports at the Division I level.
Development of a budget plan that ensures fiscal solvency of the intercollegiate athletic program within three to five years.
Development of a promotional plan that will build the audiences for Minuteman intercollegiate sports in football, basketball (men's and women's), hockey and other programs as appropriate.
The Chancellor of UMass Amherst will work with the athletic director and others as needed to monitor the continuously changing environment of college football to identify opportunities for change in the level of football competition. When such opportunities arise, the campus will request another review of the support available for Division I-A football.

The Chancellor will report on the progress of these initiatives annually through the President to the Athletic Committee of the Board of Trustees.

The committee members said they believe that UMass Amherst has the potential to improve the operations, performance and revenue-generating capacity of its intercollegiate athletic programs, and that the campus must do so if it is to succeed in taking advantage of opportunities that may arise in the future.

Quote:Forget about Temple--think Nova
Give then 5 years as an affliated independant they bring them in as a full time member in 2010 assuming they get a stadium of at least 35-40,000.

-- That would be ideal....I'm just not sure Nova has the money for staduim renovations etc....heck....I don't know if they would have the cash for the increased # of fooball scholarships that come from being 1a

-- Umass also would be a great fit geograhically, academically etc...but I don't think they could make the jump without major support from the Mass state government...would the Mass state legislature support Minutemen football?


Jackson