(11-04-2011 09:51 AM)EERSFAN Wrote:  I don't know nor care what the Big East does next year. WVU will be in the Big 12. We are out after this year, no question about it.

Delusional.

(11-04-2011 09:54 AM)EERSFAN Wrote:  Also, the Big East played with 7 in 2004, so it's not unprecedented. If the Big East can't get its teams in by next season, that's a Meatball problem, not a WVU problem.

They'll make it a WV problem.

In 2004, exiting Boston College respected its contract & played in the Big East.

(11-04-2011 06:14 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 05:40 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I think most CUSA fans want the three CUSA schools to be be gone immediately. While the BE wants to keep their three around for monetary and AQ purposes, there is no reason for CUSA to keep their three. Just pay us and go.

Doesn't matter what the fans want. CUSA isn't letting us go early. Hitt said yesterday he expects to play in CUSA next year, that is what the contract says and we should honor that.

Contracts can be renegotiated. There would be nothing wrong with that IMO...but...without that? Then the current one should be honored...Same goes for Pitt/SU/WVU. Renegotiate or honor the contract IMO.

(11-04-2011 09:56 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 09:51 AM)EERSFAN Wrote:  I don't know nor care what the Big East does next year. WVU will be in the Big 12. We are out after this year, no question about it.

Delusional.

How do you think Marinatto is going to force WVU to stay in the Big East? Yeah, WVU will pay a few more dollars, but it's not cost-prohibitive. WVU is done with the Big East. Sorry to break your hearts.

i dont see any way wvu is playing in big 12 next yr. the court battle alone will extend well into 2012 and i dont see marinara letting them leave before new members join. same thing goes for pitt and syracuse. Once the new teams are officially added for 2013, the bigeast and syracuse,pitt and wvu will settle with the bigeast and be allowed to leave in time for 2013 football season

(11-04-2011 11:52 AM)Chris02M Wrote:  i dont see any way wvu is playing in big 12 next yr. the court battle alone will extend well into 2012 and i dont see marinara letting them leave before new members join. same thing goes for pitt and syracuse. Once the new teams are officially added for 2013, the bigeast and syracuse,pitt and wvu will settle with the bigeast and be allowed to leave in time for 2013 football season

I can't believe you don't get it. WVU's position is that the contract is broken and they are free to leave. Absent a court-issued injunction, that is what they will do. WVU does not need the Big East's permission to play in the Big 12 next season. I agree the litigation will not be over anytime soon barring the Big East coming to grips with its position. There will be no injunction, and WVU will play in the Big 12 in 2012. WVU will end up paying more than $5m, but it's not so much that it's going to keep them in the Big Meatball for another year.

(11-04-2011 12:14 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 11:52 AM)Chris02M Wrote:  i dont see any way wvu is playing in big 12 next yr. the court battle alone will extend well into 2012 and i dont see marinara letting them leave before new members join. same thing goes for pitt and syracuse. Once the new teams are officially added for 2013, the bigeast and syracuse,pitt and wvu will settle with the bigeast and be allowed to leave in time for 2013 football season

I can't believe you don't get it. WVU's position is that the contract is broken and they are free to leave. Absent a court-issued injunction, that is what they will do. WVU does not need the Big East's permission to play in the Big 12 next season. I agree the litigation will not be over anytime soon barring the Big East coming to grips with its position. There will be no injunction, and WVU will play in the Big 12 in 2012. WVU will end up paying more than $5m, but it's not so much that it's going to keep them in the Big Meatball for another year.

I think WVU's lawsuit is basically garbage in terms of trying to get out of paying any damages, but on the overarching issue (leaving for the Big 12 ASAP), the law sides with WVU.

People are making the mistake that a school could be forced to stay for the entire 27-month period. That's not really true. The real issue is how much WVU (and Pitt and Syracuse) need to pay the Big East in order to get out of the 27-month period.

Once again, "notice period" = "buyout amount" in real life terms. Courts do NOT like forcing parties that don't want to be with each other any more to have to stay in a contract together. HOWEVER, fair financial compensation to make the damaged party whole must be made. That's the ultimate issue. The real fight is about money, NOT timing.

(11-04-2011 12:14 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 11:52 AM)Chris02M Wrote:  i dont see any way wvu is playing in big 12 next yr. the court battle alone will extend well into 2012 and i dont see marinara letting them leave before new members join. same thing goes for pitt and syracuse. Once the new teams are officially added for 2013, the bigeast and syracuse,pitt and wvu will settle with the bigeast and be allowed to leave in time for 2013 football season

I can't believe you don't get it. WVU's position is that the contract is broken and they are free to leave. Absent a court-issued injunction, that is what they will do. WVU does not need the Big East's permission to play in the Big 12 next season. I agree the litigation will not be over anytime soon barring the Big East coming to grips with its position. There will be no injunction, and WVU will play in the Big 12 in 2012. WVU will end up paying more than $5m, but it's not so much that it's going to keep them in the Big Meatball for another year.

So, BigXII would allow WVU to join, knowing there is the possibility of a tortious interference lawsuit against them?

You really believe that absent a settlement between BE and WVU, BigXII would expose themselves to that?

Ummm, OK.

Now, if you want to SPECULATE that the BE and WVU will come to a settlement agreement, that's a different story. But if you think that WVU will just say "screw it, we're leaving" absent either a settlement or final judgment, and BigXII will go along with that, I don't think that's very realistic.

Why do you think the Texas A&M move played out the way it did? SEC didn't want a lawsuit.

BTW, none of us can comment on the likelihood of a settlement, because we don't know all the facts. Did BE offer 'Cuse and Pitt the chance to leave in exchange for $21MM, as was rumored? If so, WVU certainly has the right to the same deal.

However, and this is important, that has not been alleged in WVU's suit. They are simply arguing that the provisions are unfair and cause them harm. BigXII has since said WVU's invite was not contingent on them joining next year, so I fail to see the harm in having them honor the agreement.

To be honest, the suit looks like it was a calculated gamble to try to get the BE to the negotiating table - it is very poorly drafted, and the legal basis for the suit is questionable at best.

Also, I don't see how a judge could even start to calculate potential damages, since there are so many moving parts here: AQ status, TV deal, gate receipts, scheduling, etc.

Will WVU be in the BE next year? Possibly not (I don't think BE gets an injunction). But will WVU be playing in the BigXII next year? Absent a settlement, I'd say that's very highly unlikely (unless BE had offered 'Cuse & Pitt a similar deal). I really don't see BigXII taking that risk.

(11-04-2011 12:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 12:14 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 11:52 AM)Chris02M Wrote:  i dont see any way wvu is playing in big 12 next yr. the court battle alone will extend well into 2012 and i dont see marinara letting them leave before new members join. same thing goes for pitt and syracuse. Once the new teams are officially added for 2013, the bigeast and syracuse,pitt and wvu will settle with the bigeast and be allowed to leave in time for 2013 football season

I can't believe you don't get it. WVU's position is that the contract is broken and they are free to leave. Absent a court-issued injunction, that is what they will do. WVU does not need the Big East's permission to play in the Big 12 next season. I agree the litigation will not be over anytime soon barring the Big East coming to grips with its position. There will be no injunction, and WVU will play in the Big 12 in 2012. WVU will end up paying more than $5m, but it's not so much that it's going to keep them in the Big Meatball for another year.

I think WVU's lawsuit is basically garbage in terms of trying to get out of paying any damages, but on the overarching issue (leaving for the Big 12 ASAP), the law sides with WVU.

People are making the mistake that a school could be forced to stay for the entire 27-month period. That's not really true. The real issue is how much WVU (and Pitt and Syracuse) need to pay the Big East in order to get out of the 27-month period.

Once again, "notice period" = "buyout amount" in real life terms. Courts do NOT like forcing parties that don't want to be with each other any more to have to stay in a contract together. HOWEVER, fair financial compensation to make the damaged party whole must be made. That's the ultimate issue. The real fight is about money, NOT timing.

Thank you Frank. This is right. There is some message board chatter that WVU obtained from Pitt the written offer Marinatto made Pitt and Syracuse to leave for the ACC immediately by paying $21m. (Pitt & Syracuse and the ACC don't care about the timing and they turned down the offer.) If that's true, WVU is basically looking at paying no more than $21m, and it is apparently comfortable enough with its position to go to the Big 12 in 2012 with the money issue unsettled.

(11-04-2011 12:46 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 12:14 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 11:52 AM)Chris02M Wrote:  i dont see any way wvu is playing in big 12 next yr. the court battle alone will extend well into 2012 and i dont see marinara letting them leave before new members join. same thing goes for pitt and syracuse. Once the new teams are officially added for 2013, the bigeast and syracuse,pitt and wvu will settle with the bigeast and be allowed to leave in time for 2013 football season

I can't believe you don't get it. WVU's position is that the contract is broken and they are free to leave. Absent a court-issued injunction, that is what they will do. WVU does not need the Big East's permission to play in the Big 12 next season. I agree the litigation will not be over anytime soon barring the Big East coming to grips with its position. There will be no injunction, and WVU will play in the Big 12 in 2012. WVU will end up paying more than $5m, but it's not so much that it's going to keep them in the Big Meatball for another year.

So, BigXII would allow WVU to join, knowing there is the possibility of a tortious interference lawsuit against them?

You really believe that absent a settlement between BE and WVU, BigXII would expose themselves to that?

Ummm, OK.

Now, if you want to SPECULATE that the BE and WVU will come to a settlement agreement, that's a different story. But if you think that WVU will just say "screw it, we're leaving" absent either a settlement or final judgment, and BigXII will go along with that, I don't think that's very realistic.

Why do you think the Texas A&M move played out the way it did? SEC didn't want a lawsuit.

BTW, none of us can comment on the likelihood of a settlement, because we don't know all the facts. Did BE offer 'Cuse and Pitt the chance to leave in exchange for $21MM, as was rumored? If so, WVU certainly has the right to the same deal.

However, and this is important, that has not been alleged in WVU's suit. They are simply arguing that the provisions are unfair and cause them harm. BigXII has since said WVU's invite was not contingent on them joining next year, so I fail to see the harm in having them honor the agreement.

To be honest, the suit looks like it was a calculated gamble to try to get the BE to the negotiating table - it is very poorly drafted, and the legal basis for the suit is questionable at best.

Also, I don't see how a judge could even start to calculate potential damages, since there are so many moving parts here: AQ status, TV deal, gate receipts, scheduling, etc.

Will WVU be in the BE next year? Possibly not. But will WVU be playing in the BigXII next year? Absent a settlement, I'd say that's very highly unlikely (unless BE had offered 'Cuse & Pitt a similar deal).

The Big 12 is more concerned with its TV contract requiring 10 teams than some legal wrangling with the Big East. The Big 12 is not the SEC. The Big East is not going to start suing its BCS partners, at least not if it wants to remain in the BCS.

(11-04-2011 12:51 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  The Big 12 is more concerned with its TV contract requiring 10 teams than some legal wrangling with the Big East. The Big 12 is not the SEC. The Big East is not going to start suing its BCS partners, at least not if it wants to remain in the BCS.

1) I do not agree with your statement. They'd sure as heck better be concerned about a potential lawsuit. SEC sure was, and there was much less of a case there.

2) I've seen comments that the TV contract doesn't specify # of teams, it specifies game inventory. If that's correct, why can't BigXII teams double up against one opponent for a year (or two)?

3) BigXII's problem doesn't become BE's problem.

4) Since nobody knows what will happen with AQ, how can you prove that allowing WVU to leave early doesn't harm the BE? OR, if it harms the BE, how can you quantify the damages? $23MM/yr (BCS Bowl appearance) in perpetuity (BE having lost AQ)?

5) If BE is unwilling to settle, do you really think the matter will be litigated in time for WVU to join BigXII next year?

(11-04-2011 01:02 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 12:51 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  The Big 12 is more concerned with its TV contract requiring 10 teams than some legal wrangling with the Big East. The Big 12 is not the SEC. The Big East is not going to start suing its BCS partners, at least not if it wants to remain in the BCS.

1) I do not agree with your statement. They'd sure as heck better be concerned about a potential lawsuit. SEC sure was, and there was much less of a case there.

2) I've seen comments that the TV contract doesn't specify # of teams, it specifies game inventory. If that's correct, why can't BigXII teams double up against one opponent for a year (or two)?

3) BigXII's problem doesn't become BE's problem.

4) Since nobody knows what will happen with AQ, how can you prove that allowing WVU to leave early doesn't harm the BE? OR, if it harms the BE, how can you quantify the damages? $23MM/yr (BCS Bowl appearance) in perpetuity (BE having lost AQ)?

5) If BE is unwilling to settle, do you really think the matter will be litigated in time for WVU to join BigXII next year?

There is no way the litigation will be resolved anytime soon. It doesn't matter. WVU is willing to take its chances that the amount of damages eventually agreed to or found by a jury are not so much to prevent it from beginning play in the Big 12 in 2012.

In any event, and this is hardly relevant, do you really think the Big East is going to sue the Big 12? Do you think UConn, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Louisville or USF are going to sue WVU? The answer to both is no chance. If you don't understand why that's the case, I can't explain it to you here.

(11-04-2011 08:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 01:20 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(11-03-2011 10:43 PM)brista21 Wrote:  Definitely makes the most sense holding Pitt, WVU and Cuse till 2014 makes no sense but there's just no way for anyone to leave for next season.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

If it makes no sense, then maybe they should have argued for that when the vote was taken to create such a wait time for exiting. It's a little late to be arguing the point now. It's what the rule is.

In practicality, "long notice period" = "buyout amount". The Big East and WVU are both posturing publicly in order to preserve their rights, but absolutely no one expects any of the 3 departing schools to stay for that 13-month period. The real squabble is finding a buyout amount that is equivalent to what the Big East would've earned during those 27 months if the 3 schools had stayed. The law very much favors a buyout instead of specific performance.

also they want to make sure they play with at least 8 teams.

Official invites of other schools have yet to be accepted, and we don't even know when those schools can enter big east play.

(11-04-2011 12:51 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 12:46 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 12:14 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 11:52 AM)Chris02M Wrote:  i dont see any way wvu is playing in big 12 next yr. the court battle alone will extend well into 2012 and i dont see marinara letting them leave before new members join. same thing goes for pitt and syracuse. Once the new teams are officially added for 2013, the bigeast and syracuse,pitt and wvu will settle with the bigeast and be allowed to leave in time for 2013 football season

I can't believe you don't get it. WVU's position is that the contract is broken and they are free to leave. Absent a court-issued injunction, that is what they will do. WVU does not need the Big East's permission to play in the Big 12 next season. I agree the litigation will not be over anytime soon barring the Big East coming to grips with its position. There will be no injunction, and WVU will play in the Big 12 in 2012. WVU will end up paying more than $5m, but it's not so much that it's going to keep them in the Big Meatball for another year.

So, BigXII would allow WVU to join, knowing there is the possibility of a tortious interference lawsuit against them?

You really believe that absent a settlement between BE and WVU, BigXII would expose themselves to that?

Ummm, OK.

Now, if you want to SPECULATE that the BE and WVU will come to a settlement agreement, that's a different story. But if you think that WVU will just say "screw it, we're leaving" absent either a settlement or final judgment, and BigXII will go along with that, I don't think that's very realistic.

Why do you think the Texas A&M move played out the way it did? SEC didn't want a lawsuit.

BTW, none of us can comment on the likelihood of a settlement, because we don't know all the facts. Did BE offer 'Cuse and Pitt the chance to leave in exchange for $21MM, as was rumored? If so, WVU certainly has the right to the same deal.

However, and this is important, that has not been alleged in WVU's suit. They are simply arguing that the provisions are unfair and cause them harm. BigXII has since said WVU's invite was not contingent on them joining next year, so I fail to see the harm in having them honor the agreement.

To be honest, the suit looks like it was a calculated gamble to try to get the BE to the negotiating table - it is very poorly drafted, and the legal basis for the suit is questionable at best.

Also, I don't see how a judge could even start to calculate potential damages, since there are so many moving parts here: AQ status, TV deal, gate receipts, scheduling, etc.

Will WVU be in the BE next year? Possibly not. But will WVU be playing in the BigXII next year? Absent a settlement, I'd say that's very highly unlikely (unless BE had offered 'Cuse & Pitt a similar deal).

The Big 12 is more concerned with its TV contract requiring 10 teams than some legal wrangling with the Big East. The Big 12 is not the SEC. The Big East is not going to start suing its BCS partners, at least not if it wants to remain in the BCS.

and if the big 12 was so concerned with the tv contract requiring 10 teams they could just missouri it ant leave until 2013 or whenever wvu is added and the sec would have no problem waiting for missouri

People need to think rationally and get back to reality. There is no logistical way that Missouri should be moving to the SEC, or West Virginia to the Big 12, as of next season. At that point, it becomes an issue of how much money West Virginia has to pay the Big East to leave as of the 2013 season, and I hope they settle at something like $30 million.

I also think some people are confused on the dates. The 27-month bylaw technically means West Virginia, Syracuse, and Pitt are bound to the Big East until December 2013, the end of football season, but would likely have to stay until the Spring of 2014 since I doubt any school has ever changed conferences in the middle of the same academic year.

They would definitely be out of the Big East in time for the 2014 football season, no matter what, but you have to assume West Virginia will do an early buyout. I am not sure about Pitt and Syracuse. They might decide to wait the extra year, rather than fork over some crazy amount like $30 million, just for rushing into the clutches of Tobacco Road.

(11-04-2011 01:12 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  There is no way the litigation will be resolved anytime soon. It doesn't matter. WVU is willing to take its chances that the amount of damages eventually agreed to or found by a jury are not so much to prevent it from beginning play in the Big 12 in 2012.

In any event, and this is hardly relevant, do you really think the Big East is going to sue the Big 12? Do you think UConn, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Louisville or USF are going to sue WVU? The answer to both is no chance. If you don't understand why that's the case, I can't explain it to you here.

Oh, I understand this much better now. Thanks for the explanation.

You, as a WVU fan, THINK that there is no way the BE sues the BigXII.

That clears everything up. I'm sure the BigXII feels much better now.

You've already been proven wrong on one of your points, because the BE sued WVU yesterday (as expected by everyone not wearing blue and gold).

The fact of the matter is that whether or not WVU wants to take reckless chances with unresolved damages sitting out there, the BigXII will not. Like I said, the SEC didn't want to with the A&M situation, and there was much less of a case there.

Your repetitive screaming that "all is well" doesn't make it so.

I think you've been hanging around the WVU scout board too much. Lots of rah rah armchair attorneys over there posting stuff that makes no legal sense. However, because it's what you guys want to hear (a la the eernation tweets), you guys champion those opinions.

To move for next year, you need a settlement, and you need it quick.