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Old Big East Football must face reality!
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #1
 
Notre Dame and PSU are not going to join the Big East for football! Temple, Army, Navy, UMass, Villanova, etc, are not the answer. Future football membership will come from this group of schools:

Toledo
Miami-Ohio
Marshall
ECU
Memphis
Southern Miss
UAB
Central Florida

Wilkie 04-cheers
05-21-2005 01:54 PM
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UABGrad Offline
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Post: #2
 
With the new criteria for BCS autobids, IMO the 8 team BE has the best shot.
05-21-2005 02:07 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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We still need a 9th football team for scheduling! :D
05-21-2005 02:13 PM
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Maize Offline
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Wilkie01 Wrote:Notre Dame and PSU are not going to join the Big East for football! Temple, Army, Navy, UMass, Villanova, etc, are not the answer. Future football membership will come from this group of schools:

Toledo
Miami-Ohio
Marshall
ECU
Memphis
Southern Miss
UAB
Central Florida

Wilkie 04-cheers
Wilke if they expand it is even smaller then that.

UCF is out, terrible record the past two years kill overall conference strength.

Marshall, Horrible in everything except Football.

Miami (Oh), is one Miami enough. Plus they're breaking in a new coach.

ECU, if they can start winning the next few years they have a shot.

Memphis, they have the best chance among the mentioned schools.

Southern Miss, needs serious upgrades in facilities and academics. They are on academic probation Wilke.

UAB, not happening.

So IMO it comes down to ECU and Memphis. If RC leaves and they upgrade everything they very well could be the 9th member of the Big East/EAC.
05-21-2005 02:16 PM
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UABGrad Offline
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The BE has plenty of schools that will play them home and home without joining the conference. Do you think ECU or Marshall would turn down 3 or 4 BE school home and homes a year? My point is you can long term scheduling agreements that don't include conference membership.
05-21-2005 02:17 PM
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #6
 
MEMPHIS! MEMPHIS! MEMPHIS! MEMPHIS! MEMEPHIS! MEMPHIS! MEMPHIS! MEMPHIS!
ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU! ECU!
S. MISS! S. MISS! S. MISS! S. MISS! S. MISS! S. MISS! S. MISS! S. MISS! S. MISS!
TULANE! TULANE! TULANE! TULANE! TULANE! TULANE! TULANE! TULANE! TULANE!

If, in the next 5 years, Marshall or UCF dramatically improve themselves all around than they should move onto the list.
05-21-2005 02:55 PM
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SF Husky Offline
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Maize Wrote:
Wilkie01 Wrote:Notre Dame and PSU are not going to join the Big East for football! Temple, Army, Navy, UMass, Villanova, etc, are not the answer. Future football membership will come from this group of schools:

Toledo
Miami-Ohio
Marshall
ECU
Memphis
Southern Miss
UAB
Central Florida

Wilkie 04-cheers
Wilke if they expand it is even smaller then that.

UCF is out, terrible record the past two years kill overall conference strength.

Marshall, Horrible in everything except Football.

Miami (Oh), is one Miami enough. Plus they're breaking in a new coach.

ECU, if they can start winning the next few years they have a shot.

Memphis, they have the best chance among the mentioned schools.

Southern Miss, needs serious upgrades in facilities and academics. They are on academic probation Wilke.

UAB, not happening.

So IMO it comes down to ECU and Memphis. If RC leaves and they upgrade everything they very well could be the 9th member of the Big East/EAC.
I have to disagree on the UCF. I think they got a good shot if they can develop their program to winning ways. They are located in FLA and it will give USF a in-state rival. In addition, it will gurantee all BE teams a FLA trip each year. ECU and Memphis would be next.

I am also not counting out UMASS and TEMPLE. UMASS going to D-1 might hurt BC if BC start to lose in the ACC. There is a chance in hell Temple might turn around the program playing in the MAC.

I do agree with Mike T that we should not take any member that will bring the conference down. If their FB and BB suck, then dont bring them in. Bring them in if and only if they will add value to the TV contract or bring a bowl.
05-21-2005 03:03 PM
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brista21 Offline
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UABGrad Wrote:The BE has plenty of schools that will play them home and home without joining the conference. Do you think ECU or Marshall would turn down 3 or 4 BE school home and homes a year? My point is you can long term scheduling agreements that don't include conference membership.
Well said. Also its becoming increasingly well known that neither PSU nor the Big Ten is happy in their "marriage" anymore. Which leads me to believe that PSU will end up leaving sooner or later. Which means they're going to do one of two things become an independent again or join the Big East. They may decide to be an indpendent for a few years but the money they'd make on their own wouldn't be that great thus they'd end up joining the Big East. As long as Paterno is there they will never leave the Big Ten. There are tons of reasons why Big Ten membership versus Big East membership have no difference for them anymore. The only great reason for staying in any way shape or form is the level of competition in football. However, that competition steals talent from their backyard of PA and NJ that they used to get or at least share with WV, Pitt, and Cuse. As I say don't rule them out. And as for Notre Dame they are never joining any conference period you can get together a 14 team megaconference of Michigan, USC, Ohio State, Tennessee, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Texas, Oklahoma, Pittsburgh, Alabama, Nebraska, West Virginia, and them being #14 and they still wouldn't join. They like the prestige, tradition, and name of being an independent. Plus financially they have no reason to join a conference of any kind.

I still say if we expand we expand within the footprint of the conference. Although I'd make an exception for Memphis. I'd like an improved Temple back because of the tradition. Look at the "Eastern Independents" currently:
Navy - Independent
Army - Independent
Temple - MAC (starting 2007 now an Independent again)
Rutgers - Big East
West Virginia - Big East
Pitt - Big East
BC - ACC
PSU - Big Ten
Syracuse - Big East
05-21-2005 03:06 PM
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The Knight Time Offline
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Maize Wrote:UCF is out, terrible record the past two years kill overall conference strength.
Uh, how would 2 seasons AGO hurt the conference in the FUTURE?

Money + O'Leary + new stadium + Florida= GOOD FOOTBALL!!

If there is one thing I'm sure of, it's that UCF will have a great program within 5 years. Not to mention our basketball program is quickly rising and we have a brand spankin new arena on the way.
05-21-2005 03:11 PM
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SO#1 Offline
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Wilkie01 Wrote:Notre Dame and PSU are not going to join the Big East for football! Temple, Army, Navy, UMass, Villanova, etc, are not the answer. Future football membership will come from this group of schools:

Toledo
Miami-Ohio
Marshall
ECU
Memphis
Southern Miss
UAB
Central Florida

Wilkie 04-cheers
Toledo – They are the best football program in term of competitiveness with good fan base from the MAC but they are not ready with other sports. Remember we want all-sport league.

Miami-Ohio – a very good academic institution but this is an athletic association.

Marshall – Not much better than Toledo but Toledo is a new market. We already have West Virginia.

ECU – North Carolina have too many competition, at best they number three at worth they are number five. The value of adding one eighth of the pie is not there.

Memphis – Toledo and Marshall have a better change of getting in than them.

Southern Miss - They are not an option.

UAB – They are not an option.

Central Florida – We already have a present in Florida.


You can’t take out Temple, Army, Navy or UMass.
05-21-2005 03:48 PM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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I'm happy with the C-USA, but I think UCF would be one of the favorites due to many reasons...

1) Largest budget of all the schools listed...We will go over $22 Million next year
2) Recruiting Location
3) Largest Enrollment
4) S. Fla possible rival
5) Facilities- New $250 million dollar arena complex going up right now
New Indoor football fields
New Football athletic center
Expansion of Baseball Stadium
New football stadium in 06- or 07.
6) Media Market- Wasn't this the big selling point to keep the BCS status?

UCF is going to the NCAA's in 2 out of the 3 major sports....We went for Basketball and we will make the Baseball tourney too. We hired O'Leary to turn around football.

Again, I would rather be in the C-USA. The main reason is the warm weather and travel designations.
05-21-2005 04:03 PM
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People have to remember, when considering schools, how would they effect existing Big East schools? Example, adding Toledo and Miami-OH would do more harm then good for Cincinnati. Yeah, they're geographical rivals but it would hurt recruiting significantly. They're already using the Big East to beat those schools out for much needed recruits, along with battling Ohio State for a recruit or two. Same goes for Marshall when taking West Virginia into consideration. Central Florida and South Florida I'm not so sure. There are so many Florida schools in BCS conferences there I don't know if it'll hurt or just stay the same for South Florida. UMass would be perfectly. They could seriously hurt Boston College and it would also close the book, almost permanently, on the Boston College/Big East situation.
05-21-2005 04:32 PM
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st932253 Offline
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Post: #13
 
Maize, you're point just doesn't make sense...

"UCF is out, terrible record the past two years kill overall conference strength."

I'm not going to jump on you for it - but I'd like you to clarify? Perhaps you meant to say:

"UCF is out, the fact that they'll never have a winning season will kill overall conference strength"

Of course, if this is what you meant to say, it would be very gracious of you to provide 2-3 reasons to back this up.

Thanks in advance!!!
05-21-2005 04:34 PM
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Yuleofell Offline
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IF and WHEN we are ready to expand I think the number 1 requirement should be desire on the part of the new member's fans.

1) ECU- pirate fans are enthusiastic and seem 100% behind joing the Big East.

2) UCF- ? They need to grow their fan base and then we will see.

3) Memphis- probably only 50% of their fans are excited about the Big East as a possibility.- This leaves them out in my book.

4) Toledo- ?????????
05-21-2005 06:22 PM
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army56mike Offline
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This is funny what all our differing views are. But golly how can you really think Army or Navy could possible survive in the Big East. There is NO way they can be competitive in a conference other than maybe a 1AA conference. I know, Army sucked their way through C-USA. It was a joke! That is why they left. They couldn't compete. If they couldn't make it in C-USA what gives you any hope they could in the Big East. They would suck the conference down with them. And I'm only talking football. I tremble to think about basketball scores. Who do you think will be the first team to beat them by 80 points. Forget about Army or Navy and think about who would be the most competitive team that would help the conference.

I appreciate all you folks up north wanting to stay in the northeast footprint. That's exactly why I'm pulling for the southern teams. Nothing wrong with that. I want to stick with what I know.

We need a 9th team for a balanced schedule. That should be Memphis. They are the most competitive and winning athletic program out there. And they have good fan support to boot.

Beyond that, there is a handfull of teams who will battle it out over the next five years to make a name for themselves. We're in no hurry. But it is fun to debate and politic to your chosen teams.

Just say yes to Memphis, ECU, S. Miss and Tulane! If you look at overall athletic department performance those are your teams. I'll give a nod to UCF, Marshall, and UAB (but their fan support is absolutely horrendous!)
05-21-2005 06:58 PM
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fsquid Offline
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Jan 21, 2005:

American University 73
Army 37

Cuse would beat them by 90. Attendance was 700 at that game played in West Point.
05-21-2005 07:15 PM
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army56mike Offline
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Case closed! :eek:
05-21-2005 07:19 PM
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ULCARDINALS Offline
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The Knight Time Wrote:
Maize Wrote:UCF is out, terrible record the past two years kill overall conference strength.
Uh, how would 2 seasons AGO hurt the conference in the FUTURE?

Money + O'Leary + new stadium + Florida= GOOD FOOTBALL!!

If there is one thing I'm sure of, it's that UCF will have a great program within 5 years. Not to mention our basketball program is quickly rising and we have a brand spankin new arena on the way.
So you hate Louisville and you are glad they are not in C-USA according to your post on the C-USA boards, but then you are pimpin your team over here on the Big East Boards???
05-21-2005 08:38 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Wilkie01 Wrote:Future football membership will come from this group of schools:

Toledo
Miami-Ohio
Marshall
ECU
Memphis
Southern Miss
UAB
Central Florida

Wilkie
They might be in a different conference, but not the Big East.

Schools like UConn and Syracuse are not going to leave from the conference unless the group of schools are similarly situated from sports perspective and a TV perspective. Many of these schools are considerably lower in the basketball RPI and do not play a comparable group of sports that would work in an all-sports conference. At that point, SU and UConn would look to the ACC...and the remaining I-A schools will really be up the creek. Meanwhile, a stable Big East in basketball suddenly doesn't look so bad.

Put another way--if you were Syracuse, would you trade in Georgetown and Notre Dame at the Garden in March for Toledo and UCF at Fifth Third Arena?
05-21-2005 08:46 PM
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fsquid Offline
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What has Georgetown done since the big man left?
05-21-2005 09:10 PM
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