And to think all of this **** started because of Texas.

(09-17-2011 09:39 PM)ADAMantium Wrote:  And to think all of this **** started because of Texas.

Texas only accelerated this issue. The BE has had deep ingrained issues from the start.

(09-17-2011 05:48 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  If the BE wants to try to survive they can still add whateer teams from CUSA that you are talking about that they should have added before. If it doesn't save their AQ then taking those teams before is moot. No CUSA teams would stop this nor would change anything from where it is now. If UCF, ECU, and some other team are not good enough to save it now, then it would not be good enough to save it if they were accepted earlier this year or last.

Your assumption is that ECU and UCF (or any other committed non-AQ for that matter) would be the same programs they are today and wouldn't have improved had they been invited to a BCS conference in 05 or earlier. That is absurd.

(09-17-2011 09:58 PM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 05:48 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  If the BE wants to try to survive they can still add whateer teams from CUSA that you are talking about that they should have added before. If it doesn't save their AQ then taking those teams before is moot. No CUSA teams would stop this nor would change anything from where it is now. If UCF, ECU, and some other team are not good enough to save it now, then it would not be good enough to save it if they were accepted earlier this year or last.

Your assumption is that ECU and UCF (or any other commuted non-AQ for that matter) would be the same programs they are today and wouldn't have improved had they been invited to a BCS conference in 05 or earlier. That is absurd.

No it is not. Louisville is now down and was higher ranked in CUSA. Cincinnati had two good seasons with one coach and now are looking mediocre (just like before). USF has had middling success. What I think is absurd is thinking that being in the BCS means you will succeed. It doesn't. You forget that the other teams in your new conference would also have the higher money so you will not improve as much as you think. Further those teams have had money and some still can't get out of mediocrity. Boise, TCU, and Utah show that being in the AQ is not required to be a good team. UCF would not likely be much better than they are now especially in such a short amount of time. In fact it is more likely your record would be worse since you would have harder competition since you can't even get through CUSA unscathed. Do what Boise and TCU do and not make the AQ money excuse it is demeaning to your school nd I don't think you need it.

Finnally just because you are there does not mean that it would save BE. The BE schools care nothing for you or your school. If Pitt and Syracuse are willing to leave teams that they have been a part of for so long and are worth a whole lot more than your school to them culturally and monetarily how would UCF and ECU stop them from leaving. TCU couldn't and they are far better in football than everybody else you mention. So even if your school improved it would likely change nothing. If your schools can't save the conference now you would not be able to save them if you were already in. What I will give you though is that if you were already in it would be far better for you and I am sorry that it did not happen then. Oddly I like the Knights and I want them to compete well but I don't let that cloud my thoughts on this issue.

(09-17-2011 09:34 PM)blazr Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 02:36 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  The Big East and Big 12 are both in trouble. Time for the teams who are not expecting to be invited to one of the other BCS conferences to take control of their own future and merge. This would be everyone but Oklahoma, Texas and probably West Virginia. That leaves 13 teams: Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Baylor, Texas Tech, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida, TCU, UConn, and Rutgers. I'm tired of waiting for other universities to decide what happens to my school, and I'm guessing others are as well.

LOL!!! I found this post from a Bearcat fan so ironic I had to read it 10 times. I don't know how old you are (maybe your in college now), but do you not remember this kind of bravado in CUSA while the BE and ACC were going at each other?

"Man, if we stick together we can bring in West Virginia, Pitt, and the other Big East schools to make an awesome conference!! We can control our destinies!! We can...hold on my phone's ringing... Ok, I'm back. Hey, look, good luck with that sticking together thing...we're just gonna pack our bags and we'll be out of the way. Kthxbai!"

Are you so surprised that the same thing is happening to the BE? Pitt and Syracuse aren't the only ones who've been slowly moving towards the exit the past few years...

It's not bravado, it's just trying to be proactive instead of sitting around waiting for the BE to dissolve and hoping the B12 extends an invite because they need to back-fill the loss of Texas, Texas AM, Oklahoma and who knows who else. We've got 8-10 current BCS teams in the BE and B12 at risk that have a common interest in preserving their BCS status. These schools should be co-operating to help increase their odds of maintaining that status. I am aware that the resulting conference would be 5th out of 5 BCS conferences in terms of the quality of the football, but 5th is better than outside looking in.

(09-17-2011 10:08 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 09:34 PM)blazr Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 02:36 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  The Big East and Big 12 are both in trouble. Time for the teams who are not expecting to be invited to one of the other BCS conferences to take control of their own future and merge. This would be everyone but Oklahoma, Texas and probably West Virginia. That leaves 13 teams: Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Baylor, Texas Tech, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida, TCU, UConn, and Rutgers. I'm tired of waiting for other universities to decide what happens to my school, and I'm guessing others are as well.

LOL!!! I found this post from a Bearcat fan so ironic I had to read it 10 times. I don't know how old you are (maybe your in college now), but do you not remember this kind of bravado in CUSA while the BE and ACC were going at each other?

"Man, if we stick together we can bring in West Virginia, Pitt, and the other Big East schools to make an awesome conference!! We can control our destinies!! We can...hold on my phone's ringing... Ok, I'm back. Hey, look, good luck with that sticking together thing...we're just gonna pack our bags and we'll be out of the way. Kthxbai!"

Are you so surprised that the same thing is happening to the BE? Pitt and Syracuse aren't the only ones who've been slowly moving towards the exit the past few years...

It's not bravado, it's just trying to be proactive instead of sitting around waiting for the BE to dissolve and hoping the B12 extends an invite because they need to back-fill the loss of Texas, Texas AM, Oklahoma and who knows who else. We've got 8-10 current BCS teams in the BE and B12 at risk that have a common interest in preserving their BCS status. These schools should be co-operating to help increase their odds of maintaining that status. I am aware that the resulting conference would be 5th out of 5 BCS conferences in terms of the quality of the football, but 5th is better than outside looking in.

Ok, not bravado. How about naivete? The point is you can't go forth on a mission when half your "army" is close to defecting. CUSA couldn't stop the schools that were leaving from going to the BE, yet people still ream Banowsky for not doing something. You could get every BE President/Chancellor on the phone tonight and have them commit to sticking together and convincing the Big XII leftovers to join with them in the noble cause. Then tomorrow 5 schools will write you a check and wish you good luck.

Also, please note that I'm not singling out Cincinnati as a school that will be on the outside looking in. I may have information on that, but I'm not insinuating that. I just think it's ironic to read this post 5 years later from a Cincinnati fan...

(09-17-2011 10:07 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 09:58 PM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 05:48 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  If the BE wants to try to survive they can still add whateer teams from CUSA that you are talking about that they should have added before. If it doesn't save their AQ then taking those teams before is moot. No CUSA teams would stop this nor would change anything from where it is now. If UCF, ECU, and some other team are not good enough to save it now, then it would not be good enough to save it if they were accepted earlier this year or last.

Your assumption is that ECU and UCF (or any other commuted non-AQ for that matter) would be the same programs they are today and wouldn't have improved had they been invited to a BCS conference in 05 or earlier. That is absurd.

No it is not. Louisville is now down and was higher ranked in CUSA. Cincinnati had two good seasons with one coach and now are looking mediocre (just like before). USF has had middling success. What I think is absurd is thinking that being in the BCS means you will succeed.

Well...BCS Membership certainly helps.

Cincinnati hadn't won an out-right Conf Championship since 1964 till they joined the Big East...then won back-to-back BCS Conf Championships...and went to 2 straight BCS Bowl Games...nor could Cinci even DREAM of finishing a season ranked in the Top 20, let alone the Top 10 if not for their BCS Membership....all of which they couldn't even dream of doing if they remained in CUSA.

Louisville, since joining the Big East, has helped open up a new 22,000 seat downtown Arena...plus expanded their football stadium...something which may not have been done if they remained in a non-bcs AQ conf.

USF, couldn't even dream of going to a BOWL GAME till they joined the Big East Conf...and now has gone to 6 straight bowl games since joining the conf. (i.e. that's a little bit better than ZERO, the amount of bowl games they had gone to PRIOR to joining the conf).

So yes, BCS Inclusion has helped all of the above, and odds are, would also help others if they were given the same opportunity.

(09-19-2011 03:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 10:07 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 09:58 PM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 05:48 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  If the BE wants to try to survive they can still add whateer teams from CUSA that you are talking about that they should have added before. If it doesn't save their AQ then taking those teams before is moot. No CUSA teams would stop this nor would change anything from where it is now. If UCF, ECU, and some other team are not good enough to save it now, then it would not be good enough to save it if they were accepted earlier this year or last.

Your assumption is that ECU and UCF (or any other commuted non-AQ for that matter) would be the same programs they are today and wouldn't have improved had they been invited to a BCS conference in 05 or earlier. That is absurd.

No it is not. Louisville is now down and was higher ranked in CUSA. Cincinnati had two good seasons with one coach and now are looking mediocre (just like before). USF has had middling success. What I think is absurd is thinking that being in the BCS means you will succeed.

Well...BCS Membership certainly helps.

Cincinnati hadn't won an out-right Conf Championship since 1964 till they joined the Big East...then won back-to-back BCS Conf Championships...and went to 2 straight BCS Bowl Games...nor could Cinci even DREAM of finishing a season ranked in the Top 20, let alone the Top 10 if not for their BCS Membership....all of which they couldn't even dream of doing if they remained in CUSA.

Louisville, since joining the Big East, has helped open up a new 22,000 seat downtown Arena...plus expanded their football stadium...something which may not have been done if they remained in a non-bcs AQ conf.

USF, couldn't even dream of going to a BOWL GAME till they joined the Big East Conf...and now has gone to 6 straight bowl games since joining the conf. (i.e. that's a little bit better than ZERO, the amount of bowl games they had gone to PRIOR to joining the conf).

So yes, BCS Inclusion has helped all of the above, and odds are, would also help others if they were given the same opportunity.

Cincinnati won there championships with one coach. Any school can do well in their own conference with the right coaches. Now they are back to mediocre (which is where they were before they had a good coach). Look at the great teams. Most have had bad stretches with the "wrong" coach but once they found the right coach they were back on top. Look at Bama with Saban (or many other teams with Saban). Cincinnati has done what many schools before in the AQ and not in the AQ-do well with a coach, lose him to a "better" team, and then goes back to the middle of the pack (which happens unless you continue to make good hires like Boise who had a coach from within that seems to refuse to leave). The BE money was not able to get him to stay. They were able to get into a better bowl but then they were embarrassed twice in those bowls because they were not that good.

USF is getting into more bowls because it is much easier to go to a bowl now than back in the day and secondly because the BE is just not that great so they stand a decent chance. Seriously there are Sunbelt teams going to a bunch of bowls since then. Bowls are nothing special anymore as nearly half the teams in all of FBS get to go.

Louisville was doing better in CUSA and I think they still could have gotten what they wanted done it just would have taken a little bit longer. If they were still in CUSA perhaps they would win some more games and be more relevant currently. They certainly would get more spot light since ESPN and the networks seem to love underdog stories like Boise and TCU more than they like lower level BCS teams that are often found in the BE.

The BCS tag was not needed to make Boise, TCU, and Utah great. They did it on their own merits. Oddly those teams seem to have better chances of staying relevant in football than the BE teams even with their head start on "BCS money". UCF doesn't need BCS money. UCF needs to schedule well, go undefeated, and win some BCS games. That will get you in fast. If you did that you would rocket ahead of all other CUSA teams and be in front of Boise in the pecking order (you would also be more valuable than Utah was and have advantages over TCU in this case). Then you can come on here and complain that they won't let you in the NCG like Boise does (though last year could have happened if they did not lose though we may never know) and then you will see me there saying you should be in because you will have shown your merit. Cutting corners does not do your school a service. I also think this is well within your schools power.


BCS money certainly does not hurt but it is not the magic bullet that many here make it sound like.

By the way I miss playing your school. Your fight song was charming to play.

(09-19-2011 05:01 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(09-19-2011 03:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 10:07 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 09:58 PM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(09-17-2011 05:48 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  If the BE wants to try to survive they can still add whateer teams from CUSA that you are talking about that they should have added before. If it doesn't save their AQ then taking those teams before is moot. No CUSA teams would stop this nor would change anything from where it is now. If UCF, ECU, and some other team are not good enough to save it now, then it would not be good enough to save it if they were accepted earlier this year or last.

Your assumption is that ECU and UCF (or any other commuted non-AQ for that matter) would be the same programs they are today and wouldn't have improved had they been invited to a BCS conference in 05 or earlier. That is absurd.

No it is not. Louisville is now down and was higher ranked in CUSA. Cincinnati had two good seasons with one coach and now are looking mediocre (just like before). USF has had middling success. What I think is absurd is thinking that being in the BCS means you will succeed.

Well...BCS Membership certainly helps.

Cincinnati hadn't won an out-right Conf Championship since 1964 till they joined the Big East...then won back-to-back BCS Conf Championships...and went to 2 straight BCS Bowl Games...nor could Cinci even DREAM of finishing a season ranked in the Top 20, let alone the Top 10 if not for their BCS Membership....all of which they couldn't even dream of doing if they remained in CUSA.

Louisville, since joining the Big East, has helped open up a new 22,000 seat downtown Arena...plus expanded their football stadium...something which may not have been done if they remained in a non-bcs AQ conf.

USF, couldn't even dream of going to a BOWL GAME till they joined the Big East Conf...and now has gone to 6 straight bowl games since joining the conf. (i.e. that's a little bit better than ZERO, the amount of bowl games they had gone to PRIOR to joining the conf).

So yes, BCS Inclusion has helped all of the above, and odds are, would also help others if they were given the same opportunity.

Cincinnati won there championships with one coach. Any school can do well in their own conference with the right coaches. Now they are back to mediocre (which is where they were before they had a good coach). Look at the great teams. Most have had bad stretches with the "wrong" coach but once they found the right coach they were back on top. Look at Bama with Saban (or many other teams with Saban). Cincinnati has done what many schools before in the AQ and not in the AQ-do well with a coach, lose him to a "better" team, and then goes back to the middle of the pack (which happens unless you continue to make good hires like Boise who had a coach from within that seems to refuse to leave). The BE money was not able to get him to stay. They were able to get into a better bowl but then they were embarrassed twice in those bowls because they were not that good.

USF is getting into more bowls because it is much easier to go to a bowl now than back in the day and secondly because the BE is just not that great so they stand a decent chance. Seriously there are Sunbelt teams going to a bunch of bowls since then. Bowls are nothing special anymore as nearly half the teams in all of FBS get to go.


BCS money certainly does not hurt but it is not the magic bullet that many here make it sound like.

Most teams generally have just one coach at a time.

Cinci had TEN Coaches inbetween their last conference championships...and funny they didn't win another one till they joined a BCS Conf (and received BCS $$$).

Glad you realize that BCS $$$ can help...and while success is never guaranteed, certain schools seem more apt to investing popularly and taking advantage of a BCS invite...vs others who basically SAT on BCS $$$ and did nothing for long periods of time (i.e. Baylor...18 conf wins in 15 years of conf play...Rutgers...till the Univ finally decided to INVEST in football 6-7 years ago, etc...).