What is the primary reason(s) that make Lincoln the devil to a few on here? Is it the suspension of habeas corpus which denied U.S. citizens due process? That is the primary thing that I can think of off the top of my head that was a violation of the constitution. Otherwise, it should come as no surprise that Lincoln invaded the south in reaction to the secessionist movement. Two southern presidents have also threatened to use force in order to preserve the union - Andrew Jackson against South Carolina and Zachary Taylor against any southern uprisings as a result of slavery being prohibited in the territories won during the Mexican American War.

Short answer: A lot of my fellow southerners are poor losers.

I despise him no less than I do any other damn leader that has sent men to their deaths in a senseless war. He just happens to be the one that is responsible for the most deaths.

I happen to believe that the states freely entered into the union and they are free to leave if they wish....any damn time they choose. Those that don't like the policies within a particular state are free to move to a state that has polices they prefer.

There is nothing particularly special about a having a "union". It is certainly not worth having a 1/2 a million people die over. If a state decided to leave now...would people support violence to stop it?...I doubt it.

(08-15-2011 09:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  There is nothing particularly special about a having a "union". It is certainly not worth having a 1/2 a million people die over. If a state decided to leave now...would people support violence to stop it?...I doubt it.

Don't tempt Rick Perry.

(08-15-2011 10:07 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 09:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  There is nothing particularly special about a having a "union". It is certainly not worth having a 1/2 a million people die over. If a state decided to leave now...would people support violence to stop it?...I doubt it.

Don't tempt Rick Perry.

Pandering Perry? He didn't mean it.

Here is Perry's quote. So where exactly is your problen with this?

Quote:
"There's a lot of different scenarios," Perry said. "We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that. But Texas is a very unique place, and we're a pretty independent lot to boot."

(08-15-2011 09:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I despise him no less than I do any other damn leader that has sent men to their deaths in a senseless war. He just happens to be the one that is responsible for the most deaths.

I happen to believe that the states freely entered into the union and they are free to leave if they wish....any damn time they choose. Those that don't like the policies within a particular state are free to move to a state that has polices they prefer.

There is nothing particularly special about a having a "union". It is certainly not worth having a 1/2 a million people die over. If a state decided to leave now...would people support violence to stop it?...I doubt it.

This. Plus he gets a lot of credit for things he didn't do like free the slaves. His proclamation only freed slaves in rebelling states, not northern border states or recently captured southern states. He was trying to use slaves as a weapon against the south, not actually free them.

He took the 10th amendment and trashed it.

(08-15-2011 08:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What is the primary reason(s) that make Lincoln the devil to a few on here? Is it the suspension of habeas corpus which denied U.S. citizens due process? That is the primary thing that I can think of off the top of my head that was a violation of the constitution. Otherwise, it should come as no surprise that Lincoln invaded the south in reaction to the secessionist movement. Two southern presidents have also threatened to use force in order to preserve the union - Andrew Jackson against South Carolina and Zachary Taylor against any southern uprisings as a result of slavery being prohibited in the territories won during the Mexican American War.

Because people are crazy...they look for any excuse to hate someone in power. Lincoln was a GREAT American President who had to make tough decisions.

Don't forget FDR was a failure as well in the conservative version of revisionist history

(08-16-2011 07:42 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  Don't forget FDR was a failure as well in the conservative version of revisionist history

Being "a failure" is not the same as being "Satan incarnate". I have never heard FDR or Lincoln described that way (satanic). I acknowledge the difficult decisions that confronted both men. But I also admit some resentment for the lasting damage they did to our constitutional system of government.

(08-16-2011 07:42 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  Don't forget FDR was a failure as well in the conservative version of revisionist history

He prolonged the depression, interred thousands of American citizens, stacked the supreme court to pass his agenda when he couldn't do it in the Constitutional way, "gave" himself 2 more terms, grew government by, at the time, an unprecedented amount, attacked civil liberties of Americans, and created the Ponzi scheme known as SS.

Yeah, GREAT guy. ....if you're a freedom-hating Democrat.

(08-16-2011 07:41 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 08:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What is the primary reason(s) that make Lincoln the devil to a few on here? Is it the suspension of habeas corpus which denied U.S. citizens due process? That is the primary thing that I can think of off the top of my head that was a violation of the constitution. Otherwise, it should come as no surprise that Lincoln invaded the south in reaction to the secessionist movement. Two southern presidents have also threatened to use force in order to preserve the union - Andrew Jackson against South Carolina and Zachary Taylor against any southern uprisings as a result of slavery being prohibited in the territories won during the Mexican American War.

Because people are crazy...they look for any excuse to hate someone in power. Lincoln was a GREAT American President who had to make tough decisions.

I'm sure Hugo thinks he's a great leader and making tough decisions as well.

(08-15-2011 08:41 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Short answer: A lot of my fellow southerners are poor losers.

There is something to this, although I can understand the view of "poor losers" a lot more than the view of "poor winners" who continue to bash the "losers" 146 years after they were defeated on the battlefield.

(08-16-2011 07:53 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-16-2011 07:41 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 08:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What is the primary reason(s) that make Lincoln the devil to a few on here? Is it the suspension of habeas corpus which denied U.S. citizens due process? That is the primary thing that I can think of off the top of my head that was a violation of the constitution. Otherwise, it should come as no surprise that Lincoln invaded the south in reaction to the secessionist movement. Two southern presidents have also threatened to use force in order to preserve the union - Andrew Jackson against South Carolina and Zachary Taylor against any southern uprisings as a result of slavery being prohibited in the territories won during the Mexican American War.

Because people are crazy...they look for any excuse to hate someone in power. Lincoln was a GREAT American President who had to make tough decisions.

I'm sure Hugo thinks he's a great leader and making tough decisions as well.

Wow..you are crazy. Drawing comparisons between Lincoln and Chavez

(08-16-2011 08:01 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-16-2011 07:53 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-16-2011 07:41 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 08:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What is the primary reason(s) that make Lincoln the devil to a few on here? Is it the suspension of habeas corpus which denied U.S. citizens due process? That is the primary thing that I can think of off the top of my head that was a violation of the constitution. Otherwise, it should come as no surprise that Lincoln invaded the south in reaction to the secessionist movement. Two southern presidents have also threatened to use force in order to preserve the union - Andrew Jackson against South Carolina and Zachary Taylor against any southern uprisings as a result of slavery being prohibited in the territories won during the Mexican American War.

Because people are crazy...they look for any excuse to hate someone in power. Lincoln was a GREAT American President who had to make tough decisions.

I'm sure Hugo thinks he's a great leader and making tough decisions as well.

Wow..you are crazy. Drawing comparisons between Lincoln and Chavez

I can tell this is going to be fun. You're not too quick on then uptake, but very quick to jump to conclusions.

(08-16-2011 08:02 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-16-2011 08:01 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-16-2011 07:53 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-16-2011 07:41 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 08:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What is the primary reason(s) that make Lincoln the devil to a few on here? Is it the suspension of habeas corpus which denied U.S. citizens due process? That is the primary thing that I can think of off the top of my head that was a violation of the constitution. Otherwise, it should come as no surprise that Lincoln invaded the south in reaction to the secessionist movement. Two southern presidents have also threatened to use force in order to preserve the union - Andrew Jackson against South Carolina and Zachary Taylor against any southern uprisings as a result of slavery being prohibited in the territories won during the Mexican American War.

Because people are crazy...they look for any excuse to hate someone in power. Lincoln was a GREAT American President who had to make tough decisions.

I'm sure Hugo thinks he's a great leader and making tough decisions as well.

Wow..you are crazy. Drawing comparisons between Lincoln and Chavez

I can tell this is going to be fun. You're not too quick on then uptake, but very quick to jump to conclusions.

I'm sure Hugo thinks he's a great leader and making tough decisions as well.
[/quote]

Isn't that what you said?

(08-16-2011 08:03 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-16-2011 08:02 AM)Rebel Wrote:  I'm sure Hugo thinks he's a great leader and making tough decisions as well.

Isn't that what you said?

Yes. It's there in black and white, isn't it?

Crazy much?

(08-16-2011 08:07 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  Crazy much?

I'm simply explaining to you that making tough decisions doesn't make one a great leader. "Tough decisions" is always a subjective phrase. Obama thinks he's making tough decisions as well. Does that make him great if you don't agree with those "tough decisions"?

You are too damn easy. RobertN is a better debater.