(06-08-2011 11:36 AM)The Brown Bull Wrote:  I find it amusing how many get worked up over what they think should happen and not focus on what IS happening. Whether we like it or not, the Big East has made Nova part of the football equation. Now they have tabled them for expansion but it still appears that the issue is still open ended for Nova.

I do think it has been made clear that the football league WILL expand to 10. The conference wants the 45 games the 9 game conference schedule will bring them. That make sense math-wise even if the 10th team were Georgetown or a local High School football team.

Nova needs 6 votes from the football schools. Pitt and Rutgers are said to be firmly opposed, WVU is said to need see a better stadium option.

All the other candidates (CUSA schools, Temple) need 12 votes from all the schools to join.

From some reports I have read, I don't think BYU was ever seriously considered. Those rumors appear to have come from BYU alumni trying to see if they can get the Big 12 to give them a call.

So basically the issue in a nutshell is can Nova get WVU to change their vote? What will that require?

Otherwise, how will any other school get 12 votes from all the schools?

I still think Nova will be the link to 12. One issue is with JUST Nova you wouldn't have the 9 game conference schedule by the time the new TV contract starts because they can't move up till 2015 at the earliest and the new contract starts with the 2014 football season.

Thus what you may see, is the Catholic schools will hold 10th member (i.e. UH, ECU, UCF) hostage until Nova is approved. If/When Nova is approved, then the 10th member will be allowed to move up in the 2014 season, with Nova and one other member coming up in 2015.

The first yr of the contract could have 8 games instead of 9. Definately not a deal breaker.
I am convinced nova is part of the equation and if they get stadium issue iron out, they have enough votes.
Not as convinced the desired end point is 12.

True, I could see that. Take Villanova in 2015 and stop at a 10/17 format. That seemed to be the original plan and the smallest gamble. I just don't know if schools like Rutgers and Pitt will be satisfied with that?

Personally, I hope we stay at 9 or 10. I don't really want a championship game. I would prefer to see 4 big east games on Championship Saturday and it makes every game you play in conference really count. No chance of having to deal with a re-match in the same season.

(06-08-2011 04:04 PM)P. ONeill Wrote:  JHG - Your assertion is patently false. Here are some BB attendance facts to clear up your cherry-colored glasses:

NCAA BB 2010 attendance figures:

38. Villanova 14 153,105 10,936 (as amply noted by some many on this board with a meager student body 7,500 and small alumni and yes bolstered by opponent fan attendance but that's the beauty of being in the BE)

83. Temple 14 89,263 6,376 (student body 30,000, with 15,000 now living on or near campus so why only avg of 6,376?)

2009:

52. Villanova 17 159,876 9,404
90. Temple 11 65,258 5,933

Also, NCAA BB attendance during the Chaney era (see http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...d/1997.pdf (and just chg the year to move around):

1999:
54. Villanova 15 128,106 8,540
61. Temple 12 95,101 7,925

1998
54. Villanova 14 117,472 8,391
57. Temple 13 103,536 7,964

1997
39 Villanova 15 149,558 9,971
Temple not listed in Top 100

1996:
50 Villanova 14 130,392 9,314
Temple not listed in Top 100

1995:
60 Villanova 13 104,693 8,053
Temple not listed in Top 100

1994:
78 Villanova 14 91,924 6,566 Down
Temple not listed in Top 100

1993:
73 Villanova 13 89,368 6,874
Temple not listed in Top 100

1992:
65. Villanova 11 83,920 7,629
151. Temple 9 30,558 3,395

1991:
48. Villanova 12 111,693 9,308
130. Temple 12 50,523 4,210

1990:
58. Villanova 13 110,540 8,503
111. Temple 14 67,880 4,849

1989:
63. Villanova 15 116,663 7,778
120. Temple 11 47,159 4,287

1988 (TEMPLE WAS A No. 1 seed and ranked No. 1 in country as one point):
55. Villanova 13 105,565 8,120
114. Temple 12 54,000 4,500

1987 (THIS WAS THE YEAR TEAM WAS a NCAA No. 2 seed):
60. Villanova 16 117,734 7,358
140. Temple 15 52,418 3,495




http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/8753...967b4a3893

You realize most of those years we played in 3,900 seat McGonigle Hall, right?

Yup, that's why the 2009 and 2010 numbers are there. Years when the Liacouras Center was well established a new, well-appointed venue, more and more students are on campus, team has a Philly icon as a coach, and had good A-10 champ/NCAA tourney teams AND STILL:

2010:
38. Villanova 14 153,105 10,936 (delta - 63,842)
83. Temple 14 89,263 6,376

2009:
52. Villanova 17 159,876 9,404 (delta - 94618)
90. Temple 11 65,258 5,933

Day late and dollar short...IMO.

Villanova fans still think that basketball is bigger than football, somehow. Their sole intention in joining the Big East football side would only to secure them a slot to remain playing those schools in basketball, in the case of a split. That's not commitment to excellence or it's football program...only preserving it's basketball future. LAME!!

(06-09-2011 08:53 AM)P. ONeill Wrote:  Yup, that's why the 2009 and 2010 numbers are there. Years when the Liacouras Center was well established a new, well-appointed venue, more and more students are on campus, team has a Philly icon as a coach, and had good A-10 champ/NCAA tourney teams AND STILL:

2010:
38. Villanova 14 153,105 10,936 (delta - 63,842)
83. Temple 14 89,263 6,376

2009:
52. Villanova 17 159,876 9,404 (delta - 94618)
90. Temple 11 65,258 5,933

The fact that Villanova fans think their basketball attendance is going to transfer over to football makes me laugh. There are a ton of Villanova basketball "tee shirt" fans that have no affiliation to the university. Those same fans root for PSU football in the fall...

Temple attendance is vs A-10 and MAC opponents....

Share the Linc and PPL... both schools all sports...

(06-09-2011 08:53 AM)P. ONeill Wrote:  Yup, that's why the 2009 and 2010 numbers are there. Years when the Liacouras Center was well established a new, well-appointed venue, more and more students are on campus, team has a Philly icon as a coach, and had good A-10 champ/NCAA tourney teams AND STILL:

2010:
38. Villanova 14 153,105 10,936 (delta - 63,842)
83. Temple 14 89,263 6,376

2009:
52. Villanova 17 159,876 9,404 (delta - 94618)
90. Temple 11 65,258 5,933

Where did I deny any of this? I didn't...

My BB attendance posts were solely in response to JHG's post re: BB attendance that said: "Not really. Their basketball fanbase isn't really anything special. They basically picked up almost all of the non-affiliated fans in Philadelphia once Coach Chaney started to lose it and our basketball program spiraled. They give us crap for our attendance numbers, but everyone knows how laughably inflated theirs are at the Wachovia/Wells Fargo Center."

Nowhere did I argue VU BB attendance relates to VU FB attendance. Nor did I say VU wants to join BE FB to protect VU BB.

V.E:

1. " Temple attendance is vs A-10 and MAC opponents...." So you are saying is Temple can only improve its attendance in BB and FB by being in a BCS conference? What is Temple's plan if BE chooses to stay at 9/17, or adds FB only schools, or adds 3 C-USA schools all sports, or approves VU as #10?

2. "Share the Linc and PPL... both schools all sports..." While personally I would be fine with that, I highly doubt BE wants 2 teams in Philly or that they would eject VU to add TU all sports. If they choose not to add VU in FB, I could see TU as a FB-only candidate among the other candidates for FB-only - ECU, Navy, Army.

I can't wait to see WVU play Nova in a weird little soccer stadium in a ghetto called Chester... just sayin.

(06-09-2011 11:51 AM)P. ONeill Wrote:  My BB attendance posts were solely in response to JHG's post re: BB attendance that said: "Not really. Their basketball fanbase isn't really anything special. They basically picked up almost all of the non-affiliated fans in Philadelphia once Coach Chaney started to lose it and our basketball program spiraled. They give us crap for our attendance numbers, but everyone knows how laughably inflated theirs are at the Wachovia/Wells Fargo Center."

Nowhere did I argue VU BB attendance relates to VU FB attendance. Nor did I say VU wants to join BE FB to protect VU BB.

V.E:

1. " Temple attendance is vs A-10 and MAC opponents...." So you are saying is Temple can only improve its attendance in BB and FB by being in a BCS conference? What is Temple's plan if BE chooses to stay at 9/17, or adds FB only schools, or adds 3 C-USA schools all sports, or approves VU as #10?

2. "Share the Linc and PPL... both schools all sports..." While personally I would be fine with that, I highly doubt BE wants 2 teams in Philly or that they would eject VU to add TU all sports. If they choose not to add VU in FB, I could see TU as a FB-only candidate among the other candidates for FB-only - ECU, Navy, Army.

1. Temples attendance is what it is, I would expect Villanova to have the same or even worse attendance with the exact same Temple schedule. (Though I am unsure of attendnace for the game where it would now read villanova vs villanova. )

2. Philadlephia is a huge market in a city that can be awakened by something big. Temple and Villanova in the same league all sports is what does it. In a few short years it can be a rivalry that equals or surpasses most in the BE.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wind-watche...6643328564

This entire photoset has some great pics of PPL from a kite flown off the bridge. Regardless if Nova plays FB there or not, kudos to Philly and the Union, it's a beautiful facility. Not saying they would or would not draw, but I don't think you can compare FCS football attendance in a 80+ year old stadium, to Big East football on the waterfront. I'd sure love to see a FB game there. So now we know 30K is no problem. I can't believe if the need was there, even more expansion would be possible (has to be cheaper than building a new facility). Or if not, ala Cincy just play major games elsewhere. As has been discussed in other threads, there are multiple options.

PPL is a beautiful ...soccer stadium... the field is very wide...the style of the facility is shall we say very euro... great place to watch soccer if you are into that sort of thing...but it would be a very weird place to see the USF Brahman Bulls play the Villanova whatevers...in a game of american football...

(06-09-2011 01:23 PM)No Bull Wrote:  I can't wait to see WVU play Nova in a weird little soccer stadium in a ghetto called Chester... just sayin.

You can't put into words the mess that would be.

(06-09-2011 11:51 AM)P. ONeill Wrote:  My BB attendance posts were solely in response to JHG's post re: BB attendance that said: "Not really. Their basketball fanbase isn't really anything special. They basically picked up almost all of the non-affiliated fans in Philadelphia once Coach Chaney started to lose it and our basketball program spiraled. They give us crap for our attendance numbers, but everyone knows how laughably inflated theirs are at the Wachovia/Wells Fargo Center."

Nowhere did I argue VU BB attendance relates to VU FB attendance. Nor did I say VU wants to join BE FB to protect VU BB.

V.E:

1. " Temple attendance is vs A-10 and MAC opponents...." So you are saying is Temple can only improve its attendance in BB and FB by being in a BCS conference? What is Temple's plan if BE chooses to stay at 9/17, or adds FB only schools, or adds 3 C-USA schools all sports, or approves VU as #10?

2. "Share the Linc and PPL... both schools all sports..." While personally I would be fine with that, I highly doubt BE wants 2 teams in Philly or that they would eject VU to add TU all sports. If they choose not to add VU in FB, I could see TU as a FB-only candidate among the other candidates for FB-only - ECU, Navy, Army.

So you're insinuating that I think our fanbase is special in comparison, which I dont.

(06-09-2011 04:46 PM)sconer Wrote:  

(06-09-2011 01:23 PM)No Bull Wrote:  I can't wait to see WVU play Nova in a weird little soccer stadium in a ghetto called Chester... just sayin.

You can't put into words the mess that would be.

Would pay to see the expressions on the faces of the wine & cheese crowd as they drive through Chester.

(06-09-2011 02:40 PM)Bull Wrote:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/wind-watche...6643328564

This entire photoset has some great pics of PPL from a kite flown off the bridge. Regardless if Nova plays FB there or not, kudos to Philly and the Union, it's a beautiful facility. Not saying they would or would not draw, but I don't think you can compare FCS football attendance in a 80+ year old stadium, to Big East football on the waterfront. I'd sure love to see a FB game there. So now we know 30K is no problem. I can't believe if the need was there, even more expansion would be possible (has to be cheaper than building a new facility). Or if not, ala Cincy just play major games elsewhere. As has been discussed in other threads, there are multiple options.

I agree....it wont be half as bad as others on this board are making it out to be.

^Well if you ever go to PPL you would then know... its tiny. 18.5k now must include some standing room....

(06-09-2011 06:02 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(06-09-2011 04:46 PM)sconer Wrote:  

(06-09-2011 01:23 PM)No Bull Wrote:  I can't wait to see WVU play Nova in a weird little soccer stadium in a ghetto called Chester... just sayin.

You can't put into words the mess that would be.

Would pay to see the expressions on the faces of the wine & cheese crowd as they drive through Chester.

Actually, so would I. That would be priceless...