(05-13-2011 09:09 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 07:47 AM)Oh Really? Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 01:08 AM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  

(05-12-2011 10:39 PM)NashvillePirate Wrote:  Actually I said it's ridiculous you can't give ECU credit for RDU and a portion of Tidewater VA. I was making a point about Neilson DMA's not being a true snapshot of a teams following. It has nothing to do with number of alumni or student demographics. By the way, what is your source for that data? Obviously the AA is a poor source because not all grads are members, but the number of students sounds inaccurate.

Check ECU's own 2010-11 Fact Book on where ECU students originate. The alumni count is from the data map of ECU alums posted earlier, though ecu's most up-to-date alumni count is just under 130K. Even with that, the ratio of NC to non-NC alums is still wide. For schools that aren't state flagships with gaggles of t-shirt fans or national programs like ND, students and alumni demographics are certainly important to understanding where interest in athletics will originate, as well as market limitations.

ECU viewership wouldn't be limited to just ECU students and alumni in North Carolina anymore than the ACC's would be limited to their alumni/student populations. In other words, if most of the cable operators in North Carolina are willing to carry ECU football/basketball then that will receive a lot of viewership from viewers of all persuasions.
And that is a significant market. Just like many from ECU catch an NC State or North Carolina game on television. If it is of interest in the state of North Carolina, a LOT of people will be checking it out.
The rest is just excuses... Just more Duck Soup. To forgo the whole
area is to concede to the ACC on the Big East's part. Makes the Big East a complete nonfactor anywhere in the Mid Atlantic of Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina. If the BE thinks they can completely skip a four state area of geography on the EAST Coast and call themselves The Big EAST, they're only fooling themselves. To be sure, ECU bridges some of that gap in the Mid Atlantic and at least give the Big East a representative on the EAST Coast in the Mid Atlantic area. Most reasonable people will grant that much.

Duck Soup, baby.... Eventually ECU will be at 60,000 per game and the Big East will still be making excuses because (just admit it) they're scared of the ACC. So they go to Texas and elsewhere to try to duck this area of the country and CONCEDE the entire Mid Atlantic to the ACC. Weak, baby.... WEAK.

Can you explain to me how one school in NC - a school that is not currently in an AQ conference and is not the flagship university of the state - can allow the BE to compete for a 4 state region of the country? Yes, I've seen your arguments for a full 60K stadium and all that, but the premise of your statement is that ECU could capture viewer eyeballs in your 4 state region away from schools like Clemson, South Carolina, UNC, NCSt, VT and UVa if these games are going head to head, right?

Also, you contend that the BE is afraid of competing against schools like UNC, NCSt and Duke by not going into North Carolina, so the BE will go with its tail between its legs to take on the University of Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech instead. Do I understand you correctly?

Do you know what I think is weak? Your poorly thought out post. That is WEAK. Do you know who I think is eating the most duck soup? You are, because you continually duck reason in order to contrive ways that make ECU look much greater than it really is.

I don't think ECU can deliver the North Carolina market. But I don't think any of the candidates deliver a market so its a moot point. The way I see it, it depends on what the Big East wants. If it decides to expand with a program that could become Virginia Tech, and adds a strong fanbase that will travel and could improve bowl ties and compete for conference titles, then add ECU. If they want to add a team that has the highest potential for growth and could create a superb rivalry with USF that would be a meaningful game, then add UCF. If you want to add a program with history that could be a poor man's Miami and have great success under the right coach, then add Houston. Each has benefits, but none are stellar additions. The Big East just needs to make a quick decision and then rest for a while and decide over the next few years if a hybrid is really the best arrangement.

(05-13-2011 02:01 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 11:27 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  I think what is largely overlooked in this line of thinking is why the Big East is even considering expansion. It's about football. Football viewers and improved football product. The above talks about adding a 5th AQ team to a state. Well, arguably two of the 4 current AQ teams don't deserve to be AQ. The don't draw well, don't have a real slice of the market and generally aren't a player in the equation when it comes to football. In reality, only the ones that have impact to the market make a difference. It's like asking whether you want to add a 3rd AQ team, not a 5th. I'm not gonna buy the "well, there are 5 so it's 5" stuff. If schools aren't players, they aren't players. They may have the AQ label but that doesn't make them a player/factor in market share.

I do realize there is more to BE membership than football. But this is about football. Getting viewers in a state that has little to offer football-wise (UNC/NCSU) would be huge (IMO, of course). Once you start having people turn on BE football they'll be watching some BE basketball too. Doesn't mean they'll give up the ACC but you'd get far more than many here are willing to give credit. JMO.

It's not even necessarily just the 4 schools located within the NC borders, though. Add in the number of UVA, VT, Clemson and GT alums/fans in the state and you've got a critical mass of ACC fans throughout the state (whether we're talking about football or basketball). Also, it's not just that the ACC is simply strong in the NC market - it arguably dominates that market more than any conference dominates any single market. While it might be true that many people here underestimate ECU's market impact in NC, I also believe that a lot of ECU fans are underestimating (or trying to play down) the market power of UNC and NC State for football purposes (much less basketball). (To be clear, fans of all of the expansion candidates have been doing this, most particularly some UCF fans claiming equal footing with or even overtaking Florida State in Central Florida.) Even if those were the only two AQ schools in the state and we ignored Duke and Wake Forest, those are still two pretty formidable athletic departments.

I see your points but I'm not sure that I agree with them to the extent that they support your argument. To go any further would be arguing the same points that have been beat to death on each side for months/years. It doesn't seem either side is willing to give ground and neither side sees the other as having a well thought out rational. It may be thought to death but not necessarily factual...or even closer to reality than the other side's opinion. To each his own.

(05-13-2011 02:10 PM)Nola Gator Wrote:  I don't think ECU can deliver the North Carolina market. But I don't think any of the candidates deliver a market so its a moot point. The way I see it, it depends on what the Big East wants. If it decides to expand with a program that could become Virginia Tech, and adds a strong fanbase that will travel and could improve bowl ties and compete for conference titles, then add ECU. If they want to add a team that has the highest potential for growth and could create a superb rivalry with USF that would be a meaningful game, then add UCF. If you want to add a program with history that could be a poor man's Miami and have great success under the right coach, then add Houston. Each has benefits, but none are stellar additions. The Big East just needs to make a quick decision and then rest for a while and decide over the next few years if a hybrid is really the best arrangement.

Thanks. That's the most fair, and probably correct assessment of the "usual suspects" that I've read on this board. This whole "delivering markets" thing has become ridiculous when we all think about it as it's pretty tough to deliver any market as a non-AQ. The bottom line for ECU, UCF, Houston, SMU, Temple, Memphis, etc. fans is that we're all on the outside, looking in right now and the gap between the haves and the have nots appears to grow wider and wider. We're all in somewhat of a panic mode right now trying to prove who is the best fit when in reality we all bring something to the table. NONE of us wants to get left behind because if we do, it will likely be a long time before we see another expansion. Even if the BCS goes away the majority of the $$$ is still made through TV. I'd love to se the BE go to 12 and invite 3. I believe that is what ESPN might be suggesting to maximize revenue. Who knows? I'm honestly ready for all this to be over with. We ECU fans have been through this before during the worst possible time for our football program back in 2003 so we're probably especially ancy about the whole situation.

(05-13-2011 02:01 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 11:27 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  I think what is largely overlooked in this line of thinking is why the Big East is even considering expansion. It's about football. Football viewers and improved football product. The above talks about adding a 5th AQ team to a state. Well, arguably two of the 4 current AQ teams don't deserve to be AQ. The don't draw well, don't have a real slice of the market and generally aren't a player in the equation when it comes to football. In reality, only the ones that have impact to the market make a difference. It's like asking whether you want to add a 3rd AQ team, not a 5th. I'm not gonna buy the "well, there are 5 so it's 5" stuff. If schools aren't players, they aren't players. They may have the AQ label but that doesn't make them a player/factor in market share.

I do realize there is more to BE membership than football. But this is about football. Getting viewers in a state that has little to offer football-wise (UNC/NCSU) would be huge (IMO, of course). Once you start having people turn on BE football they'll be watching some BE basketball too. Doesn't mean they'll give up the ACC but you'd get far more than many here are willing to give credit. JMO.

It's not even necessarily just the 4 schools located within the NC borders, though. Add in the number of UVA, VT, Clemson and GT alums/fans in the state and you've got a critical mass of ACC fans throughout the state (whether we're talking about football or basketball). Also, it's not just that the ACC is simply strong in the NC market - it arguably dominates that market more than any conference dominates any single market. While it might be true that many people here underestimate ECU's market impact in NC, I also believe that a lot of ECU fans are underestimating (or trying to play down) the market power of UNC and NC State for football purposes (much less basketball). (To be clear, fans of all of the expansion candidates have been doing this, most particularly some UCF fans claiming equal footing with or even overtaking Florida State in Central Florida.) Even if those were the only two AQ schools in the state and we ignored Duke and Wake Forest, those are still two pretty formidable athletic departments.

Isn't this pretty much the case in any market though? I don't think it is unique to NC and the ACC. Ex. I live in Nashville, TN and obviously the Vols are the top dog in the state. However, there are also a ton of fans of various other SEC programs. Same applies to the ACC, Big Ten, Pac-10, Big 12, etc.

Also, somewhat of an outsider(not originally from North Carolina, nor do I live there today) I can tell you that MOST ECU fans do not over-estimate the market power of UNC or NCSU. In fact, I think most would agree that NCSU has the largest share-when it comes to football. I know UNC alum's that don't even follow their football. Couldn't even name the QB if they were asked.

Maybe the best example of what I'm trying to point out is that one of the reasons NC is such an ACC state is because there is no AQ competition. If the BE wants to maximize not only their future TV dollars, but also improve the football product, they're going to have to take on a new southern member. Now, based on the three most commonly mentioned(Houston, ECU & UCF) do you not agree that, from a football standpoint-which is driving this ship, that it would be far easier to capture market share when your competition has weak football?

My point is that if you are comparing the three schools, the state of North Carolina has more potential to grow market share than the others due to weak competition(ACC football). JMO of course..

Quote:I don't think ECU can deliver the North Carolina market. But I don't think any of the candidates deliver a market so its a moot point. The way I see it, it depends on what the Big East wants. If it decides to expand with a program that could become Virginia Tech, and adds a strong fanbase that will travel and could improve bowl ties and compete for conference titles, then add ECU. If they want to add a team that has the highest potential for growth and could create a superb rivalry with USF that would be a meaningful game, then add UCF. If you want to add a program with history that could be a poor man's Miami and have great success under the right coach, then add Houston. Each has benefits, but none are stellar additions. The Big East just needs to make a quick decision and then rest for a while and decide over the next few years if a hybrid is really the best arrangement.

This is probably the fairest post here. We can debate this all day about who's popular or who isn't in a particular market, but you're right that none of these candidates are #1 in any of them and probably would rank #3 at best. Based on what the Big East has done before, it appears that physical location is most important since none of these schools are flagships (or flagship equivalents like FSU or Texas A&M). Maybe it's different this time around, but to the extent that there is a common thread between the Big East schools (even in its hybrid and haphazard nature), it's largely locations in large urban areas. I'm not saying that's the right way to look at it - it's just what has been done before.

(05-13-2011 02:53 PM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 02:10 PM)Nola Gator Wrote:  I don't think ECU can deliver the North Carolina market. But I don't think any of the candidates deliver a market so its a moot point. The way I see it, it depends on what the Big East wants. If it decides to expand with a program that could become Virginia Tech, and adds a strong fanbase that will travel and could improve bowl ties and compete for conference titles, then add ECU. If they want to add a team that has the highest potential for growth and could create a superb rivalry with USF that would be a meaningful game, then add UCF. If you want to add a program with history that could be a poor man's Miami and have great success under the right coach, then add Houston. Each has benefits, but none are stellar additions. The Big East just needs to make a quick decision and then rest for a while and decide over the next few years if a hybrid is really the best arrangement.

Thanks. That's the most fair, and probably correct assessment of the "usual suspects" that I've read on this board. This whole "delivering markets" thing has become pretty ridiculous as it's pretty tought to deliver any market as a non-AQ. The bottom line for ECU, UCF and Houston fans is that we're all on the outside, looking in right now and the gap between the haves and the have nots appears to grow wider and wider. We're all in somewhat of a panic mode right now trying to prove who is the best fit when in reality we all bring something to the table. NONE of us wants to get left behind because if we do, it will likely be a long time before we see another expansion. I'd love to se the BE go to 12 and invite all three. I believe that is what ESPN might be suggesting to maximize revenue. Who knows? I'm honestly ready for all this to be over with. We ECU fans have been through this before during the worst possible time for our football program back in 2003 so we're probably especially ancy about the whole situation.

Honestly, maybe it's just me but at least over the past few years it's seemed like in Florida the gap has decreased significantly. We're still 3rd in our market (after UF by a wide margin and FSU by a smaller margin) but the thought we'd ever been getting more press than any of the big three was absurd. It's probably purely due to their recent issues (FSU and Miami) and our on-campus stadium finally exciting a few alumni here and there.

I'm not blinded enough to think that this means we're nationally we're viewed anywhere near the likes of the Top-3, that's laughable. I know there's people all over the place who still don't know where UCF is, much less that it's the behemoth of a school that it is. But in central florida, we've made significant progress recently. That, of course, could easily change with us taking a turn into mediocrity or UM/FSU both resurging and growing into the programs they once were (FSU seems poised to do that but I think UM might just be out for the count).

(05-13-2011 03:00 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

Quote:I don't think ECU can deliver the North Carolina market. But I don't think any of the candidates deliver a market so its a moot point. The way I see it, it depends on what the Big East wants. If it decides to expand with a program that could become Virginia Tech, and adds a strong fanbase that will travel and could improve bowl ties and compete for conference titles, then add ECU. If they want to add a team that has the highest potential for growth and could create a superb rivalry with USF that would be a meaningful game, then add UCF. If you want to add a program with history that could be a poor man's Miami and have great success under the right coach, then add Houston. Each has benefits, but none are stellar additions. The Big East just needs to make a quick decision and then rest for a while and decide over the next few years if a hybrid is really the best arrangement.

This is probably the fairest post here. We can debate this all day about who's popular or who isn't in a particular market, but you're right that none of these candidates are #1 in any of them and probably would rank #3 at best. Based on what the Big East has done before, it appears that physical location is most important since none of these schools are flagships (or flagship equivalents like FSU or Texas A&M). Maybe it's different this time around, but to the extent that there is a common thread between the Big East schools (even in its hybrid and haphazard nature), it's largely locations in large urban areas. I'm not saying that's the right way to look at it - it's just what has been done before.

Agreed. What makes me frustrated not only as an ECU, but as a fan of college football, is that the BE has historically taken that approach and while it hasn't really seemed to help all that much, they continue to harp on the same bullet points. I'm not sure if it will ever help, I'm no fortune teller, but there is no doubt in my mind that the BE is by far the weakest AQ conference. You would think there would be some change in philosophy at some point.

(05-13-2011 03:05 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Honestly, maybe it's just me but at least over the past few years it's seemed like in Florida the gap has decreased significantly. We're still 3rd in our market (after UF by a wide margin and FSU by a smaller margin) but the thought we'd ever been getting more press than any of the big three was absurd. It's probably purely due to their recent issues (FSU and Miami) and our on-campus stadium finally exciting a few alumni here and there.

I'm not blinded enough to think that this means we're nationally we're viewed anywhere near the likes of the Top-3, that's laughable. I know there's people all over the place who still don't know where UCF is, much less that it's the behemoth of a school that it is. But in central florida, we've made significant progress recently. That, of course, could easily change with us taking a turn into mediocrity or UM/FSU both resurging and growing into the programs they once were (FSU seems poised to do that but I think UM might just be out for the count).

I would agree with you somewhat here. Florida has "leveled out" a little bit with FSU, Miami, and UF having "off" years compared to their historical success. I don't claim to spend any time in Florida but if you're talking pure fan interest I'd assume it goes UF, FSU, then USF/UM followed closely by UCF. But again much of that changes with the BCS label. The difference between UCF's situation and ECU's is that NC is bball first and FL is Fball first. You can make 2 arguments.

1) ECU is a better choice because NC needs a BCS school to commit 100% to football. UNC & NCSU have proven they can't do much with the BCS tag.
2) UCF is a better choice because FL residents are more interested in football. Given access to the BCS they can become a regular rival with other in-state schools.

It's a non-stop pattern of circular logic that gets no where.

(05-13-2011 03:05 PM)NashvillePirate Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 03:00 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

Quote:I don't think ECU can deliver the North Carolina market. But I don't think any of the candidates deliver a market so its a moot point. The way I see it, it depends on what the Big East wants. If it decides to expand with a program that could become Virginia Tech, and adds a strong fanbase that will travel and could improve bowl ties and compete for conference titles, then add ECU. If they want to add a team that has the highest potential for growth and could create a superb rivalry with USF that would be a meaningful game, then add UCF. If you want to add a program with history that could be a poor man's Miami and have great success under the right coach, then add Houston. Each has benefits, but none are stellar additions. The Big East just needs to make a quick decision and then rest for a while and decide over the next few years if a hybrid is really the best arrangement.

This is probably the fairest post here. We can debate this all day about who's popular or who isn't in a particular market, but you're right that none of these candidates are #1 in any of them and probably would rank #3 at best. Based on what the Big East has done before, it appears that physical location is most important since none of these schools are flagships (or flagship equivalents like FSU or Texas A&M). Maybe it's different this time around, but to the extent that there is a common thread between the Big East schools (even in its hybrid and haphazard nature), it's largely locations in large urban areas. I'm not saying that's the right way to look at it - it's just what has been done before.

Agreed. What makes me frustrated not only as an ECU, but as a fan of college football, is that the BE has historically taken that approach and while it hasn't really seemed to help all that much, they continue to harp on the same bullet points. I'm not sure if it will ever help, I'm no fortune teller, but there is no doubt in my mind that the BE is by far the weakest AQ conference. You would think there would be some change in philosophy at some point.

Glad to see some of you agree with the analysis. Its far more entertaining to discuss practical issues than to beat my head against the wall with certain posters.

And I can sympathize with your frustration. Heck, its frustrating to me as a college football fan with no connection to the Big East! I really hope that the vote against Nova, is the first sign that some programs are ready to shift the course of the conference, by force if necessary. I'd love a split as much as anyone, but I'd settle for ousting the commissioner and elevating Jurich or someone from a football minded school. Until that point, I'm not sure how much progress will occur.

(05-13-2011 03:33 PM)Nola Gator Wrote:  Glad to see some of you agree with the analysis. Its far more entertaining to discuss practical issues than to beat my head against the wall with certain posters.

And I can sympathize with your frustration. Heck, its frustrating to me as a college football fan with no connection to the Big East! I really hope that the vote against Nova, is the first sign that some programs are ready to shift the course of the conference, by force if necessary. I'd love a split as much as anyone, but I'd settle for ousting the commissioner and elevating Jurich or someone from a football minded school. Until that point, I'm not sure how much progress will occur.

I appreciate a poster who doesn't have an axe to grind. Just curious, why are you so interested in this expansion?

(05-13-2011 03:37 PM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 03:33 PM)Nola Gator Wrote:  Glad to see some of you agree with the analysis. Its far more entertaining to discuss practical issues than to beat my head against the wall with certain posters.

And I can sympathize with your frustration. Heck, its frustrating to me as a college football fan with no connection to the Big East! I really hope that the vote against Nova, is the first sign that some programs are ready to shift the course of the conference, by force if necessary. I'd love a split as much as anyone, but I'd settle for ousting the commissioner and elevating Jurich or someone from a football minded school. Until that point, I'm not sure how much progress will occur.

I appreciate a poster who doesn't have an axe to grind. Just curious, why are you so interested in this expansion?

I love college football. It interests me on all levels. Ive also been very critical of the Big East and do not feel it has deserved an auto-bid in the post-Miami&VTech era.

Other boards have labeled me an anti-Big East person and so forth but this has never been the case. I just felt winning the Big East has not been a sufficient accomplishment to automatically justify a BCS appearance (although most years, the champion has been good enough to go in my opinion, I just take issue with the auto-bid). So it interests me that the Big East has been investigating expansion to upgrade its football conference. Having more competition in the conference would delight me as a college football fan and I would no longer feel it was inadequate.

I lived in Clearwater for several years pre-college and went to school at Florida so I obviously know several USF and UCF fans. I think UCF would be a great addition to the Big East and that the rivalry would help the conference, even though it would probably hurt Florida in the long run. But it would be good for college football. And also, I'm really tired of hearing my USF and UCF friends ***** at each other over this issue.

I also think ECU would be a good addition and would help strengthen the conference as a football minded program that could travel. I understand the addition of TCU, but I would have definitely preferred adding UCF and ECU. Stretching to Texas is a mistake for a conference that is already too stretched out in my opinion. USF does not bring the central Florida market. They get publicity when they are winning and in the top 10 but as soon as they falter, they are just an afterthought. Adding UCF would be a benefit as it would become a big rivalry in the state. As a fan of an SEC school (living in New Orleans for law school which is the backyard of another SEC school), I can tell you that rivalries are the breeding grounds for interest in college sports. USF-UCF in the Big East would not overtake UF in the SEC as the major draw for college football fans in central Florida, but it would be an improvement and I think the entire conference would benefit.

(05-13-2011 03:49 PM)Nola Gator Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 03:37 PM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 03:33 PM)Nola Gator Wrote:  Glad to see some of you agree with the analysis. Its far more entertaining to discuss practical issues than to beat my head against the wall with certain posters.

And I can sympathize with your frustration. Heck, its frustrating to me as a college football fan with no connection to the Big East! I really hope that the vote against Nova, is the first sign that some programs are ready to shift the course of the conference, by force if necessary. I'd love a split as much as anyone, but I'd settle for ousting the commissioner and elevating Jurich or someone from a football minded school. Until that point, I'm not sure how much progress will occur.

I appreciate a poster who doesn't have an axe to grind. Just curious, why are you so interested in this expansion?

I love college football. It interests me on all levels. Ive also been very critical of the Big East and do not feel it has deserved an auto-bid in the post-Miami&VTech era.

Other boards have labeled me an anti-Big East person and so forth but this has never been the case. I just felt winning the Big East has not been a sufficient accomplishment to automatically justify a BCS appearance (although most years, the champion has been good enough to go in my opinion, I just take issue with the auto-bid). So it interests me that the Big East has been investigating expansion to upgrade its football conference. Having more competition in the conference would delight me as a college football fan and I would no longer feel it was inadequate.

I lived in Clearwater for several years pre-college and went to school at Florida so I obviously know several USF and UCF fans. I think UCF would be a great addition to the Big East and that the rivalry would help the conference, even though it would probably hurt Florida in the long run. But it would be good for college football. And also, I'm really tired of hearing my USF and UCF friends ***** at each other over this issue.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but the BE is not the only conference that looked less than impressive since 2004. The Big10 had a run of bowl losses, the ACC had years where they had few to no ranked teams in a given season, etc. The BE sticks out more than any other conference primarily because it looks different from the other conferences. I'm not saying the BE is a great FB conference and is likely the weakest of the 6; however, there are no other conferences outside the BCS that could replace the BE. Also, if your opinion was that the AQ conferences should drop to 5 AQs, then there would be less teams in that out, which would have posed a serious problem for the BCS.

(05-13-2011 03:37 PM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  I appreciate a poster who doesn't have an axe to grind. Just curious, why are you so interested in this expansion?

I'm not Nola, but expansion does not happen in a vaccuum. What happens in one conference is felt in other conferences in some manner..whether actual teams moving, or $$$$ moving or what not

I agree Miko. Conference power naturally goes up and down. I just dont feel that year to year, winning the Big East is enough of an accomplishment to guarantee the winner a spot in the BCS. As I said, most seasons, I have felt that the champion did deserve a spot in a BCS game, as they were a top 10 team and were worthy on their own accord. I just don't think the Big East as presently constituted, represents the same week to week difficulty as the SEC, Big 10, Pac 10, Big 12 or even ACC. Those other conferences just have more depth and its not as easy to win every weekend.

Another issue is that home field advantage is significantly less important in the Big East. For example, Pittsburgh and North Carolina State might be equal in a given year as far as talent. But, I think it is tougher to win on the road at NC State because they have a better home field advantage. The only team with a distinct home field advantage seems to be West Virginia. That is not meant to mean that other teams do not have moments of loudness or that fans at other schools are not passionate but its tougher to win on the road with 50k+ screaming at you for an entire game. I don't see that type of environment in Big East games so winning on the road in the conference does not impress me the way it does in other conferences.

And if you think winning on the road is over rated than follow more SEC football. It matters. I'd rather play Alabama at home then play at South Carolina. Not that it matters since we will probably lose both of those games in our transitional year but the bottom line is that winning on the road in tough environments is hard and I dont think Big East teams go through the same grind as some other conferences. Just my opinion. I enjoy watching the Big East grow as a conference and think that down the road (given the right decisions) the conference could be in good shape.

Also I don't think the BCS should drop to 5 auto-bid conferences just to drop to 5 auto bid conferences. I just thought the Big East should expand to bring in a few more competitive teams which would as a result, make winning the conference championship, a tougher accomplishment and then the winner would be more worthy of an auto-bid.

And if the Big East deserved a bid from 2004 on, then I felt the MWC deserved one. Big East was a bit deeper but MWC had a stronger top. In the end, they seemed about even to me. But now that is gone so I'll just have to focus on the Big East and hope that they make one more addition (with others to possibly come down the road).

Well, this MEMPHIS fan agrees with cardshouse.

Quote:UCF= BALANCE ECU= FOOTBALL MEMPHIS = BASKETBALL

If you want good balance from an athletic standpoint this is the best package. You have two very solid markets and an ECU team that sells football plus you enter two new territories with ECU and Memphis wich would be an addition for good football recruiting. I would think with ECU in the Big East all the top talent from North Carolina would stay in the Big East plus it never hurts to have teams in states where you have bowl tie's (Belk Bowl Char. NC) and (Liberty Bowl Mem. Tenn).

The current athletic prowess is defined fairly well. UCF has really solid football and made some strides in basketball. Their facilities are really good. ECU is also pretty good in football but has a ways to go in BB; however the new coach looks promising. MEMPHIS has really solid basketball but has a ways to go in FB, though our new FB coach looks promising.

There already is a thread on the MEMPHIS "quiet" efforts at facility improvements and academic strides, so no need to repeat those here.

Orlando, MEMPHIS, and the Carolinas/VA markets are there.