I still think the B12 will eventually go back to 12. Louisville and Cincy both make sense.

The appeal for A&M is mostly getting away from UT. You can call it "little brother" complex sure, but think of it like this: They have one of the best athletic departments in the entire country. Almost anywhere else they would be top dog without question. BUT they also happen to be in the same state with one of only two NCAA schools that spends 100 mil plus on athletics and thus no matter how good they do, they never look as good as big brother...who works very hard to keep it that way.

That is why they want to get away from UT because they know as long as they are the same conference, they will never have a level playing field to compete against. Stay with the status quo and it will always just be "Texas...and those other school in texas" but in the SEC then they are THE Texas school, THE representative of the Lone Star State on CFB's greatest stage.

Obviously the idea gets them very excited and scares the crap out of Longhorns. Its the whole reason they scuttled the PAC 10 deal and nothing else. They will not let A&M go off on their own where they aren't in their shadow without a serious fight.

Also, keep in mind, this sentiment is mostly among their fans. The folks who are really in charge have an entirely different view of their relationship with UT and what sort of athletic conference A&M should be in. These are the folks who would be all too happy to go with UT and the Oklahoma schools to the PAC.

Hawaii, BYU, Boise St, UNLV

(04-12-2011 08:13 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I still think the B12 will eventually go back to 12. Louisville and Cincy both make sense.

Louisville and Memphis.

Should be: "Pac 12 Still Searching for Top-Notch Programs". The Pac 10/12 is a joke, they suck in everything. They need to shut up.

(04-12-2011 08:34 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Obviously the idea gets them very excited and scares the crap out of Longhorns. Its the whole reason they scuttled the PAC 10 deal and nothing else. They will not let A&M go off on their own where they aren't in their shadow without a serious fight.

Serious question..... does Texas have the political strengh and will to force Texas A&M to do what they want them to do?

I don't know. It just doesn't appear that a move to the PAC with Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State it that bad a deal. My guess is that a PAC-16 conference would do at least as well as the SEC in terms of revenue, and would Texas A&M really want to alienate Texas? If what I'm reading about Texas A&M is true, they are pretty big on tradition, this would be a radical departure from decades long tradition.

My guess is that Texas A&M would just get creamed in the SEC, it's not like they have been tearing things up in the B-12. I don't see where Texas A&M would really gain any recuiting advantage playing teams from the SEC. Before Arkansas joined the SEC they flirted with the top 10 every year, since being in the SEC last year was the first time that I can remember that the Razorbacks even came close to a top 10 finish. I assume it would be worst for Texas A&M.

(04-12-2011 11:49 AM)cardshouse Wrote:  Hawaii, BYU, Boise St, UNLV

Big 14? Don't even want to think of the travel costs..stillwater to Maui?

(04-12-2011 01:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  Should be: "Pac 12 Still Searching for Top-Notch Programs". The Pac 10/12 is a joke, they suck in everything. They need to shut up.

lol ok. Obvious Sarcasim is Obvious.

Quote:Serious question..... does Texas have the political strengh and will to force Texas A&M to do what they want them to do?

Not exactly. If they did, they would have dragged A&M kicking and screaming with them to the PAC 16 and we wouldn't be having this talk. Also, it's not like their interests are the only one nor are they the only school with pull at the Capitol. Baylor was fighting this tooth and nail because they knew they would get left out. For those unfamiliar, Baylor has a disproportionate amount of political power vs their size, and they also happened to have the right environment to capitalize on it too. All this happened during the Texas gubernatorial race and state rep races (which will influence all important redistricting) where a few PO'd Big Cigars could literally throw support behind anyone who would make some vague promise to save Baylor's bacon.

Quote:I don't know. It just doesn't appear that a move to the PAC with Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State it that bad a deal. My guess is that a PAC-16 conference would do at least as well as the SEC in terms of revenue, and would Texas A&M really want to alienate Texas? If what I'm reading about Texas A&M is true, they are pretty big on tradition, this would be a radical departure from decades long tradition.

It's not a terrible deal at all, but there WERE few other factors here: 1) Pride. Aggies are some of the most prideful people you will meet and their love of that damn school is near cult like. Nothing stings pride like your rival TELLING you that this is what you are going to do something without your input. Now, Oklahoma, OSU and Tech have no choice but to be Texas' lap dogs. Their pride was hurt just as much but they can't do anything about it because they are dependent on their relationship with UT. 2) On the other hand, A&M DID have another option in the SEC, an option that while not perfect, was and still is very popular with the fans.

Quote:My guess is that Texas A&M would just get creamed in the SEC, it's not like they have been tearing things up in the B-12. I don't see where Texas A&M would really gain any recuiting advantage playing teams from the SEC. Before Arkansas joined the SEC they flirted with the top 10 every year, since being in the SEC last year was the first time that I can remember that the Razorbacks even came close to a top 10 finish. I assume it would be worst for Texas A&M.

Their recruiting would improve simply because there are a LOT of Texas kids who want to play in the SEC (and being cutoff from the Texas talent is what killed the Arkansas program). The offer of "represent Texas in CFB's best conference" is a big one, especially if UT and Tech and TCU are all playing schools most Texans could care less about on the East and West coasts. In fact, its the one thing they could offer a blue chip that Texas could never match or beat despite how they have their hand deep in every level and aspect of Texas high school recruiting.

In addition, who is Lufkin Texas going to watch on Saturday? A&M vs LSU in prime time or a 9:00 Texas vs Arizona game? So its highly possible they could improve a lot in the SEC, but recruiting aside, they'd have to be willing to cheat like an SEC school to win, and with the state's burnt orange media looking over their shoulder, they'd never be able to get away with it.

So basically, A&M to the SEC is a very high risk/high reward gamble. One its admin isn't crazy about for all sorts of reasons. Basically, if UT had swallowed their own ego and just stroked A&M's ego a little and brought them in on the deal instead of believing they could make them come when called like the others, the PAC 16 would probably be a reality.

(04-12-2011 03:29 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  In addition, who is Lufkin Texas going to watch on Saturday? A&M vs LSU in prime time or a 9:00 Texas vs Arizona game? So its highly possible they could improve a lot in the SEC, but recruiting aside, they'd have to be willing to cheat like an SEC school to win, and with the state's burnt orange media looking over their shoulder, they'd never be able to get away with it.

Maybe you should ask how much people in Texas want to watch Aggie football vs. Kentucky, and then ask if they'd rather watch UT vs. U$C.

It'll come down to money. If a Pac-16 can ever offer the powers on both sides -- teams like UT and U$C -- way more money than they'll make on their new TV deals, then it will happen. If the money is roughly the same as what they're starting to get now, then it won't happen.

Their recruiting would improve simply because there are a LOT of Texas kids who want to play in the SEC (and being cutoff from the Texas talent is what killed the Arkansas program).

This is also the main reason that you can never say never. When it comes to Arkansas joining the Big12. The UofA last season recruited 12 football players from seven different states other than Arkansas. Before the UofA switched conferences. Arkansas only had to recruit the state of Texas.

Hawg I'm sure the Big 12 would love to have Arky back, but I will believe it when I see it.

(04-12-2011 03:29 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Their recruiting would improve simply because there are a LOT of Texas kids who want to play in the SEC (and being cutoff from the Texas talent is what killed the Arkansas program). The offer of "represent Texas in CFB's best conference" is a big one, especially if UT and Tech and TCU are all playing schools most Texans could care less about on the East and West coasts. In fact, its the one thing they could offer a blue chip that Texas could never match or beat despite how they have their hand deep in every level and aspect of Texas high school recruiting.

In addition, who is Lufkin Texas going to watch on Saturday? A&M vs LSU in prime time or a 9:00 Texas vs Arizona game? So its highly possible they could improve a lot in the SEC, but recruiting aside, they'd have to be willing to cheat like an SEC school to win, and with the state's burnt orange media looking over their shoulder, they'd never be able to get away with it.

So basically, A&M to the SEC is a very high risk/high reward gamble. One its admin isn't crazy about for all sorts of reasons. Basically, if UT had swallowed their own ego and just stroked A&M's ego a little and brought them in on the deal instead of believing they could make them come when called like the others, the PAC 16 would probably be a reality.

Good points, but the door does swing both ways.... you would have SEC programs Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, LSU, Florida et. al. making more frequent recruiting trips to the Lone Star State as well. If a Texas kid wants to play for an SEC team, there is no guarantee they would play for Texas A&M. Could it be that Texas and Oklahoma were more worried about other SEC programs coming into Texas? They might not have such a lock on Blue Chip talent. I suspect that Texas would recruit well no matter what, but I'm pretty sure Oklahoma relies heavily on recruiting in the State.

I definitely agree that Texas A&M to the SEC is a HIGH RISK venture. I just don't see the reward being that much higher than what they might get with a PAC-16 deal. An Arkansas move from the SWC to the SEC made sense, but I'm not sure a move from the PAC to the SEC would not have to come with some serious introspection.

I definitely understand the "pride" factor. I don't think it would go over well in Louisville if UK started dictating terms to us. I'm not so sure it would come to the point where we would shoot ourselves in the foot over it, but I get it.

(04-12-2011 04:00 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Hawg I'm sure the Big 12 would love to have Arky back, but I will believe it when I see it.

Actually I think this makes a heck of a lot of sense. Arkansas and BYU to the B-12 would be a stronger conference then what the B-12 had with Nebraska and Colorado. Nebraska is some pretty big shoes to fill. You can't make the arguement that BYU and Arky couldn't carry their weight.

Arkansas would be stupid to leave the SEC for the Big XII. If history and rivalry meant so much to Arkansas, they'd have never joined the SEC in the first place...

(04-12-2011 04:24 PM)Cardsshark Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 04:00 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Hawg I'm sure the Big 12 would love to have Arky back, but I will believe it when I see it.

Actually I think this makes a heck of a lot of sense. Arkansas and BYU to the B-12 would be a stronger conference then what the B-12 had with Nebraska and Colorado. Nebraska is some pretty big shoes to fill. You can't make the arguement that BYU and Arky couldn't carry their weight.

Yeah, if the BIG 12 got the Razorbacks and BYU, there would be some really good games in conference. I just don't see Arkansas' motivation to leave SEC money. Though I agree it'd be great for the Big 12 if they did.

(04-12-2011 04:26 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Arkansas would be stupid to leave the SEC for the Big XII. If history and rivalry meant so much to Arkansas, they'd have never joined the SEC in the first place...

You honestly could make an argument that their move had to do with seeing the SWC approaching death and not wanting to hinge their future on texas politics possibly intervening. I doubt they leave but its not an indication of their zeal for history to jump when you can save your skin.

(04-12-2011 05:09 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 04:26 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Arkansas would be stupid to leave the SEC for the Big XII. If history and rivalry meant so much to Arkansas, they'd have never joined the SEC in the first place...

You honestly could make an argument that their move had to do with seeing the SWC approaching death and not wanting to hinge their future on texas politics possibly intervening.

I agree. The SWC was on life support that move made sense. The SEC money is pretty darned good, but money isn't everything if you are not having fun. I suspect Arky fans had more fun when they were competing every year for a conference title, and any media deal the B-12 would be able to get with the addtion of BYU and Arkansas would be pretty strong. Stong enough to overcome what they make in the SEC, I don't know.... I would have to see the numbers. But playing in the SEC certainly makes it easier to fund non-revenue sports, which is important.

(04-12-2011 05:20 PM)Cardsshark Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 05:09 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 04:26 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Arkansas would be stupid to leave the SEC for the Big XII. If history and rivalry meant so much to Arkansas, they'd have never joined the SEC in the first place...

You honestly could make an argument that their move had to do with seeing the SWC approaching death and not wanting to hinge their future on texas politics possibly intervening.

I agree. The SWC was on life support that move made sense. The SEC money is pretty darned good, but money isn't everything if you are not having fun. I suspect Arky fans had more fun when they were competing every year for a conference title, and any media deal the B-12 would be able to get with the addtion of BYU and Arkansas would be pretty strong. Stong enough to overcome what they make in the SEC, I don't know.... I would have to see the numbers. But playing in the SEC certainly makes it easier to fund non-revenue sports, which is important.

If it did make financial sense, the unequal revenue sharing in the Big 12 would likely be favoring the Piggies to make it happen.

(04-12-2011 01:55 PM)Cardsshark Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 08:34 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Obviously the idea gets them very excited and scares the crap out of Longhorns. Its the whole reason they scuttled the PAC 10 deal and nothing else. They will not let A&M go off on their own where they aren't in their shadow without a serious fight.

Serious question..... does Texas have the political strengh and will to force Texas A&M to do what they want them to do?

I don't know. It just doesn't appear that a move to the PAC with Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State it that bad a deal. My guess is that a PAC-16 conference would do at least as well as the SEC in terms of revenue, and would Texas A&M really want to alienate Texas? If what I'm reading about Texas A&M is true, they are pretty big on tradition, this would be a radical departure from decades long tradition.

My guess is that Texas A&M would just get creamed in the SEC, it's not like they have been tearing things up in the B-12. I don't see where Texas A&M would really gain any recuiting advantage playing teams from the SEC. Before Arkansas joined the SEC they flirted with the top 10 every year, since being in the SEC last year was the first time that I can remember that the Razorbacks even came close to a top 10 finish. I assume it would be worst for Texas A&M.

Texas A&M wouldn't get creamed in the SEC permanently. Not sure if how often they'd play 'Bama because of how realignment would fall out, but I'm thinking both 'Bama & Auburn wind up in the East. And even if 'Bama was in their division, things have a way of leveling out in the SEC. Take South Carolina for example. The Gamecocks were horrid for years, even in the SEC. But once they hired Spurrier, he taught them the fundamentals of actually playing in the SEC, and they caught on very quickly. If Arkansas would do the same, I'm sure that the Razorbacks would take off like never before. If TAMU joins the SEC and hires a former SEC coach, watch out!!!