(04-11-2011 02:38 PM)chrisharper80 Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 02:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Like it was said above, Texas literally only had 1 more recruit last year than us. Also, I just think the Texas market is already just so flooded with significant in-state schools that it makes hard to make the argument that UH would benefit greatly from adding the BE tag. In florida you have 2 top teams and 3 mid-level teams (at least in the past 3-4 years) or if you prefer to measure it this way, 4 BCS teams (I don't, because UCF has outrecruited USF two years running now). Texas has 5 BCS programs, 4 of which are significant BCS programs (A&M/UT/Tech/TCU) and two other non-BCS programs which are significant (Houston/SMU). Florida has 3 significant BCS teams and 2 other teams with significant pull (USF/UCF). That's a big difference IMO.

You are twisting the facts a little bit to make your argument. You are downplaying USF by counting them as "other with significant pull" and you are counting TCU as a BCS program even though they aren't yet (however, I will allow you that because of their performance).

Florida AQs
Florida, FSU, Miami, USF

Texas AQs
Texas, TAMU, TTU, Baylor, TCU (soon to be)

What you are missing here is a comparison in population. Texas has 25 million people, compared to Florida's 19 million. Texas has 25% more BCS schools, but the population is 34% higher.

And yet only 1 more recruit from an extra 6 million people.

(04-11-2011 02:38 PM)chrisharper80 Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 02:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Like it was said above, Texas literally only had 1 more recruit last year than us. Also, I just think the Texas market is already just so flooded with significant in-state schools that it makes hard to make the argument that UH would benefit greatly from adding the BE tag. In florida you have 2 top teams and 3 mid-level teams (at least in the past 3-4 years) or if you prefer to measure it this way, 4 BCS teams (I don't, because UCF has outrecruited USF two years running now). Texas has 5 BCS programs, 4 of which are significant BCS programs (A&M/UT/Tech/TCU) and two other non-BCS programs which are significant (Houston/SMU). Florida has 3 significant BCS teams and 2 other teams with significant pull (USF/UCF). That's a big difference IMO.

You are twisting the facts a little bit to make your argument. You are downplaying USF by counting them as "other with significant pull" and you are counting TCU as a BCS program even though they aren't yet (however, I will allow you that because of their performance).

Florida AQs
Florida, FSU, Miami, USF

Texas AQs
Texas, TAMU, TTU, Baylor, TCU (soon to be)

What you are missing here is a comparison in population. Texas has 25 million people, compared to Florida's 18 million. Texas has 25% more BCS schools, but the population is 38% higher.

I was discussing the number of recruits that each state has each year, which is a toss-up (you guys were +1 this year). In regards to the USF thing, yeah they're a BCS program but when it comes to recruiting, they aren't. That's why I didn't include Baylor into the significant BCS programs list for Texas.

You are right in population size though, that is one advantage Texas has over Florida. Houstons market is much larger than UCF's, though both are quite large. I don't know Houston very well, only been there 2-3 times my entire life, do you feel they could carry a significant portion of that market?

Quote:And yet only 1 more recruit from an extra 6 million people.

Add in the fact the obscene amount of retiree's we've got down here and those numbers are even more obscene but that's a different discussion...

(04-06-2011 01:05 PM)krux Wrote:  Pair up Houston/TCU and UCF/USF...then add ECU as football only...18 game bball schedule with no return games.

That sounds good to me.

(04-11-2011 01:50 PM)MagicKnightmare Wrote:  Texas only had one or two more players signed last year. Literally. So I'd say the edge goes to Florida.

But BE teams are already playing games in the state of Florida so they should already be making inroads to that talent pool. BE teams are not playing in TX, and even with the addition of TCU, BE teams will not be playing in the largest 1 city talent pool of Houston. BTW: Houston and DFW should almost be considered different states when it comes to recruiting. There's a reason why schools like UT play games in both Dallas and Houston to benefit recruiting.

Solely based on untapped recruiting (which I'm sure we'll all agree is minor decision making reason), UH provides more access to a new talent pool than UCF.

(04-12-2011 10:48 AM)NTXCoog Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 01:50 PM)MagicKnightmare Wrote:  Texas only had one or two more players signed last year. Literally. So I'd say the edge goes to Florida.

But BE teams are already playing games in the state of Florida so they should already be making inroads to that talent pool. BE teams are not playing in TX, and even with the addition of TCU, BE teams will not be playing in the largest 1 city talent pool of Houston. BTW: Houston and DFW should almost be considered different states when it comes to recruiting. There's a reason why schools like UT play games in both Dallas and Houston to benefit recruiting.

Solely based on untapped recruiting (which I'm sure we'll all agree is minor decision making reason), UH provides more access to a new talent pool than UCF.

They play one game every other year in Florida at best, that's nothing. Furthermore, I just don't see a Northeastern based conference getting the marketshare in Texas that some might think they would. That's just my opinion though, we won't know until a few years down the road and see what's happened with TCU.

(04-12-2011 10:48 AM)NTXCoog Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 01:50 PM)MagicKnightmare Wrote:  Texas only had one or two more players signed last year. Literally. So I'd say the edge goes to Florida.

But BE teams are already playing games in the state of Florida so they should already be making inroads to that talent pool. BE teams are not playing in TX, and even with the addition of TCU, BE teams will not be playing in the largest 1 city talent pool of Houston. BTW: Houston and DFW should almost be considered different states when it comes to recruiting. There's a reason why schools like UT play games in both Dallas and Houston to benefit recruiting.

Solely based on untapped recruiting (which I'm sure we'll all agree is minor decision making reason), UH provides more access to a new talent pool than UCF.

ROFL, really? Texas is untapped by out-of-state teams? Sorry, that doesn't wash. I grew up in OK, and I'm still a Sooners fan. 85% or greater of Sooner teams are made up of recruits from Texas. Same thing for OSU. In fact, a large portion of that region draws recruits from Texas. Nice try, but Texas is anything but untapped. So the BEast is not going to stroll into Texas and grab a large share of blue chip recruits. Just isn't happening.

(04-12-2011 11:01 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 10:48 AM)NTXCoog Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 01:50 PM)MagicKnightmare Wrote:  Texas only had one or two more players signed last year. Literally. So I'd say the edge goes to Florida.

But BE teams are already playing games in the state of Florida so they should already be making inroads to that talent pool. BE teams are not playing in TX, and even with the addition of TCU, BE teams will not be playing in the largest 1 city talent pool of Houston. BTW: Houston and DFW should almost be considered different states when it comes to recruiting. There's a reason why schools like UT play games in both Dallas and Houston to benefit recruiting.

Solely based on untapped recruiting (which I'm sure we'll all agree is minor decision making reason), UH provides more access to a new talent pool than UCF.

They play one game every other year in Florida at best, that's nothing. Furthermore, I just don't see a Northeastern based conference getting the marketshare in Texas that some might think they would. That's just my opinion though, we won't know until a few years down the road and see what's happened with TCU.

UT plays 1 game every other year in Houston. Your point?

And you see a NE based conference getting market share in FL? Many of the arguments being made against UH could be made against UCF too. Many of the arguments being made for UCF could also be made for UH.

It really comes down to this. UCF has larger attendance right now and has already invested in facilities. UH is attempting to invest in facilities and doesn't have UCF's current attendance, but UH has a new and larger market potential for TV than UCF.

Both are good candidates that bring something to the table, but if the BE decides it wants to expand by one and those are the options, which does the BE value more? I don't think anyone knows.

(04-12-2011 11:08 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 10:48 AM)NTXCoog Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 01:50 PM)MagicKnightmare Wrote:  Texas only had one or two more players signed last year. Literally. So I'd say the edge goes to Florida.

But BE teams are already playing games in the state of Florida so they should already be making inroads to that talent pool. BE teams are not playing in TX, and even with the addition of TCU, BE teams will not be playing in the largest 1 city talent pool of Houston. BTW: Houston and DFW should almost be considered different states when it comes to recruiting. There's a reason why schools like UT play games in both Dallas and Houston to benefit recruiting.

Solely based on untapped recruiting (which I'm sure we'll all agree is minor decision making reason), UH provides more access to a new talent pool than UCF.

ROFL, really? Texas is untapped by out-of-state teams? Sorry, that doesn't wash. I grew up in OK, and I'm still a Sooners fan. 85% or greater of Sooner teams are made up of recruits from Texas. Same thing for OSU. In fact, a large portion of that region draws recruits from Texas. Nice try, but Texas is anything but untapped. So the BEast is not going to stroll into Texas and grab a large share of blue chip recruits. Just isn't happening.

Who said Texas was untapped? I said that playing in Texas provides greater access to Texas recruits. You know that is true. UT and OU both get huge benefit recruiting-wise playing in Dallas. UT plays Rice in Houston for recruiting purposes.

How much does the BE currently benefit from recruiting TX? Some. Almost every school does. Would they benefit more playing a game in TX in front of TX players? Would they benefit more knowing a recruit would get to play at least one game in their college career near their hometown?

And again, you can make the same argument for FL. I'd guess BE teams already recruit FL more heavily than TX. The original post that started this was a UCF fan saying that a benefit of getting UCF is that they are in the best recruiting area. Do you want to argue that BE teams don't already recruit FL?

Quote:And again, you can make the same argument for FL. I'd guess BE teams already recruit FL more heavily than TX. The original post that started this was a UCF fan saying that a benefit of getting UCF is that they are in the best recruiting area. Do you want to argue that BE teams don't already recruit FL?

That doesn't hurt UCF, if the Big East teams already have inroads into florida like a large amount of them do (Rutgers/WVU historically and UL now with Strong), giving them more ammunition by allowing them to play a game every year would help them out. We're already stealing recruits from them, this wouldn't hurt them.

As for the Big East being a Northeastern conference hurting their ability to carry the Florida market, it could have an effect. However, not nearly the effect that that would have on Texas. We're already an eastern state and honestly, we have more in common with a lot of nothern states than southern states. It's a function of having such a massive amount of transplants down here, outside of the po-dunk area's Florida is full of people from all over, many of them from the Northeast. I don't know if that's the case with Texas.

Sure glad to see UCF fans now taking on Houston fans as to has more to offer. Those UCF'ers have been bashing ECU for years over the same thing.

(04-12-2011 11:25 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  It's a function of having such a massive amount of transplants down here, outside of the po-dunk area's Florida is full of people from all over, many of them from the Northeast. I don't know if that's the case with Texas.

Texas is one of the fastest growing states in the US, both in percentage and population because we have low home prices and low tax rates. People are coming from all over the country to Texas. And yes, I know plenty of New Yorkers. My wife was born there.

(04-11-2011 02:01 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 11:47 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-06-2011 07:33 PM)Bull Wrote:  

(04-06-2011 01:21 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Sounds like a decent plan to this BE fan.

I'm going to hate myself, but I just HAVE to ask: So, yesterday adding one very strong FCS team in a huge market was the 'path to self destruction' for the BE? But today adding multiple CUSA teams is a 'decent plan'? Just checking...

-UCF ended up ranked higher than any Big East team last year, is in the best football recruiting state in the nation, and would bring in the 19th largest US market.

-ECU would be at the top of your attendance list, has a great fanbase, and would put you in a new basketball rich and above average football market.

-Houston would give a travel partner to TCU, is located in the 4th largest market in the nation, and has a historic success at Football.

Now, how does nova stack up against any of those?

Deep down you know if UCF played in the Big East Conference last year they wouldn't have been ranked. In fact they'd finish around 6th.

No I'm pretty sure we'd be ranked and would have finished top 3 or 4 of the conference.

(04-06-2011 01:05 PM)krux Wrote:  Pair up Houston/TCU and UCF/USF...then add ECU as football only...18 game bball schedule with no return games.

ECU plays all sports...Not fair....Kick a school out that is a non football member at least. Seton Hall or Depaul. ECU is much more attractive all around when put up against several BE basketball schools.

(04-12-2011 11:35 AM)knight_01 Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 02:01 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 11:47 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-06-2011 07:33 PM)Bull Wrote:  

(04-06-2011 01:21 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Sounds like a decent plan to this BE fan.

I'm going to hate myself, but I just HAVE to ask: So, yesterday adding one very strong FCS team in a huge market was the 'path to self destruction' for the BE? But today adding multiple CUSA teams is a 'decent plan'? Just checking...

-UCF ended up ranked higher than any Big East team last year, is in the best football recruiting state in the nation, and would bring in the 19th largest US market.

-ECU would be at the top of your attendance list, has a great fanbase, and would put you in a new basketball rich and above average football market.

-Houston would give a travel partner to TCU, is located in the 4th largest market in the nation, and has a historic success at Football.

Now, how does nova stack up against any of those?

Deep down you know if UCF played in the Big East Conference last year they wouldn't have been ranked. In fact they'd finish around 6th.

No I'm pretty sure we'd be ranked and would have finished top 3 or 4 of the conference.

That was the same argument used against Boise & TCU for years. Now that TCU is in the BE, I'm sure all BE fans are now saying they're a legit top 10 team.

As a Houston fan, I'll support UCF on this. They were a solid team. Hoping UH gets another shot at them with a healthy Case Keenum in the championship game this year. It's always an interesting game between these two schools.

(04-12-2011 11:42 AM)NTXCoog Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 11:35 AM)knight_01 Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 02:01 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 11:47 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-06-2011 07:33 PM)Bull Wrote:  I'm going to hate myself, but I just HAVE to ask: So, yesterday adding one very strong FCS team in a huge market was the 'path to self destruction' for the BE? But today adding multiple CUSA teams is a 'decent plan'? Just checking...

-UCF ended up ranked higher than any Big East team last year, is in the best football recruiting state in the nation, and would bring in the 19th largest US market.

-ECU would be at the top of your attendance list, has a great fanbase, and would put you in a new basketball rich and above average football market.

-Houston would give a travel partner to TCU, is located in the 4th largest market in the nation, and has a historic success at Football.

Now, how does nova stack up against any of those?

Deep down you know if UCF played in the Big East Conference last year they wouldn't have been ranked. In fact they'd finish around 6th.

No I'm pretty sure we'd be ranked and would have finished top 3 or 4 of the conference.

That was the same argument used against Boise & TCU for years. Now that TCU is in the BE, I'm sure all BE fans are now saying they're a legit top 10 team.

As a Houston fan, I'll support UCF on this. They were a solid team. Hoping UH gets another shot at them with a healthy Case Keenum in the championship game this year. It's always an interesting game between these two schools.

Keenum will do some damage this year. It's a possibility. Provided UCF can keep up it's gains in football. You never know. USM, for instance, has owned us in sports recently.

But name one team UCF last year beat that was any good? BTW, UGA was mediocre. Did UCF even beat anyone that finished above .500%. I say UCF was a paper tiger last year as they are most years...beneficiary of a weak schedule. At best they might have finished 4th or 5th in the mediocre Big East...their Top 25 ranking is a sham.

(04-12-2011 12:38 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  But name one team UCF last year beat that was any good? BTW, UGA was mediocre. Did UCF even beat anyone that finished above 500%. I say UCF was a paper tiger last year as they are most years...beneficiary of a weak schedule. At best they might have finished 4th or 5th in the mediocre Big East...their Top 25 ranking is a sham.

No, we didnt beat anyone above 500%

(04-12-2011 12:39 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  No, we didnt beat anyone above 500%

Just once, I'd like a crack at a team over 100%... maybe one day when we have AQ status.

Any of the teams ECU, Houston or UCF would be good additions. All the programs have spent tens of millions of facilities upgrades or have plans to do so. All these programs have winning records since 2005 against BCS level opponents. The last 5 C-USA conference champions have been one of these teams. These are the best programs of all BCS programs, not already in an AQ conference within the BE footprint.

Houston and ECU had one of the largest increases in attendance last year for all BCS schools, while both programs ended up with losing records last year. UCF didn't have much room to improve since they were already pretty much selling out every game, but they still had more than 1,000 plus in a season where most programs saw a drop in attendance. Attendance for all three programs was at least was more than triple what Villanova produced last year, Villanova didn't even come close to finishing in the top 30 in attendance for FCS programs in the last couple of years, when they won or competed for the national title. and the only BCS or Div-1A program that Villanova has beaten since the started playing football again in the early 80s was Temple... a team that was kicked out of the BE because of poor performance.

the Big East champ lost to Temple last year.......UCF would not be 5th in that conference last season