I felt obliged to post this because I am quite tired of reading about how UH 'obviously' doesn't deliver the Houston market, citing attendance or simply their backside. The Houston Chronicle commissioned a poll in 2002 (1 year removed from our worst season ever) and UH still was top in Houstonians' interest.

I wish they would do so again, so we had a more current poll. Nevertheless, since then, we have participated in 2 CUSA championship games, won one, won a bowl, been to 5 others, beat two Big XII teams in 2 weeks (#5 Ok St & Texas Tech), and sold out all but one home game for a 5-7 team with their star player lost for the season. Media coverage and interest have increased as a result.

"Although the poll focused on professional teams, respondents also were asked to list their favorite college programs. The University of Texas had the largest contingent of hard-core support, with 20 percent of respondents describing themselves as "very interested" in the Longhorns' progress, but the top draw across the top two categories was the University of Houston.

Forty-five percent of respondents said they were very interested or somewhat interested in the Cougars, compared to 43 percent for Texas, 39 percent for Texas A&M and 33 percent for Rice."

Link

(04-06-2011 05:37 AM)J_Coog Wrote:  I felt obliged to post this because I am quite tired of reading about how UH 'obviously' doesn't deliver the Houston market, citing attendance or simply their backside. The Houston Chronicle commissioned a poll in 2002 (1 year removed from our worst season ever) and UH still was top in Houstonians' interest.

I wish they would do so again, so we had a more current poll. Nevertheless, since then, we have participated in 2 CUSA championship games, won one, won a bowl, been to 5 others, beat two Big XII teams in 2 weeks (#5 Ok St & Texas Tech), and sold out all but one home game for a 5-7 team with their star player lost for the season. Media coverage and interest have increased as a result.

"Although the poll focused on professional teams, respondents also were asked to list their favorite college programs. The University of Texas had the largest contingent of hard-core support, with 20 percent of respondents describing themselves as "very interested" in the Longhorns' progress, but the top draw across the top two categories was the University of Houston.

Forty-five percent of respondents said they were very interested or somewhat interested in the Cougars, compared to 43 percent for Texas, 39 percent for Texas A&M and 33 percent for Rice."

Link

JML2010 in 3.....2....1...... To use pie charts, graphs, and statistics to indicate otherwise.....lol

This is going to turn into the Democrats and Republicans. Each showing different information/charts/statistics that proves "their" assertion on the same subject.

(04-06-2011 07:30 AM)Borncoog74 Wrote:  

(04-06-2011 05:37 AM)J_Coog Wrote:  I felt obliged to post this because I am quite tired of reading about how UH 'obviously' doesn't deliver the Houston market, citing attendance or simply their backside. The Houston Chronicle commissioned a poll in 2002 (1 year removed from our worst season ever) and UH still was top in Houstonians' interest.

I wish they would do so again, so we had a more current poll. Nevertheless, since then, we have participated in 2 CUSA championship games, won one, won a bowl, been to 5 others, beat two Big XII teams in 2 weeks (#5 Ok St & Texas Tech), and sold out all but one home game for a 5-7 team with their star player lost for the season. Media coverage and interest have increased as a result.

"Although the poll focused on professional teams, respondents also were asked to list their favorite college programs. The University of Texas had the largest contingent of hard-core support, with 20 percent of respondents describing themselves as "very interested" in the Longhorns' progress, but the top draw across the top two categories was the University of Houston.

Forty-five percent of respondents said they were very interested or somewhat interested in the Cougars, compared to 43 percent for Texas, 39 percent for Texas A&M and 33 percent for Rice."

Link

JML2010 in 3.....2....1...... To use pie charts, graphs, and statistics to indicate otherwise.....lol

This is going to turn into the Democrats and Republicans. Each showing different information/charts/statistics that proves "their" assertion on the same subject.

No.. That's left for the 3rd party candidates

I wish that 3rd party candidate had won. He was right in every one of his predictions. Although a few came a bit later than predicted, due to the slow speed of the American beaurocracy...

I would just like to make 1 observation about this oft cited poll:

This survey was done in 2002, ie almost 10 years ago. Since then UH's rivals for fans and publicity have done the following:

-UT has won 1 NC in FB, 2 NC's in BB, 1 NC in S&D and gone to the FF in MBB.

-Rice has won 1 NC in BB

-TCU has been to 2 BCS games and won the Rose Bowl in FB

-Texas A&M has won 4 NC in T&F, 1 in MG, just won the NC in WBB and gone to S16 in MBB.

-Baylor won 1 NC in WBB, 1 NC in MT and has gone to the E8 in MBB

-Texas Tech has made a bowl game and had a winning season in FB every year of B12 play, the only Texas B12 team who can claim so.

Is it POSSIBLE that all the media love and attention and growth of fan bases that these accomplishments have garnered for these schools, while at the same time UH has done nothing close to any of this (besides their 06 CUSA title)...would change the results of that poll if it were taken this weekend?

IMO, schools don't have to "deliver" a market, so long as they "attract attention from a market."

The Big East are probably just hoping (short term) that those BIG12 fans sitting at home tune into a Houston vs Cincy game because they have "passing interest" and it's the "more attractive game on tv."

I seriously hope that NOBODY is expecting Houston to suddenly have a sell out 65,000 seat stadium EVERY game just because they join a "BCS" conference.

Obviously the hope is the TCU/Houston game would be the "must watch" game in Texas behind UT and T-A&M.

If Houston can grab just 10% of the Houston population to "tune in" those are still huge numbers, which is what gives them an edge over other markets like Memphis, Orlando, etc I guess.

(04-06-2011 10:17 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  IMO, schools don't have to "deliver" a market, so long as they "attract attention from a market."

The Big East are probably just hoping (short term) that those BIG12 fans sitting at home tune into a Houston vs Cincy game because they have "passing interest" and it's the "more attractive game on tv."

I seriously hope that NOBODY is expecting Houston to suddenly have a sell out 65,000 seat stadium EVERY game just because they join a "BCS" conference.

Obviously the hope is the TCU/Houston game would be the "must watch" game in Texas behind UT and T-A&M.

If Houston can grab just 10% of the Houston population to "tune in" those are still huge numbers, which is what gives them an edge over other markets like Memphis, Orlando, etc I guess.

Exactly. It's the POTENTIAL that the BE is looking for, not the current numbers.

(04-06-2011 10:10 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I would just like to make 1 observation about this oft cited poll:

This survey was done in 2002, ie almost 10 years ago. Since then UH's rivals for fans and publicity have done the following:

-UT has won 1 NC in FB, 2 NC's in BB, 1 NC in S&D and gone to the FF in MBB.

-Rice has won 1 NC in BB

-TCU has been to 2 BCS games and won the Rose Bowl in FB

-Texas A&M has won 4 NC in T&F, 1 in MG, just won the NC in WBB and gone to S16 in MBB.

-Baylor won 1 NC in WBB, 1 NC in MT and has gone to the E8 in MBB

-Texas Tech has made a bowl game and had a winning season in FB every year of B12 play, the only Texas B12 team who can claim so.

Is it POSSIBLE that all the media love and attention and growth of fan bases that these accomplishments have garnered for these schools, while at the same time UH has done nothing close to any of this (besides their 06 CUSA title)...would change the results of that poll if it were taken this weekend?

It is absolutely possible and probable. It is also equally possible and probable that the increased support from the almumni and administration and increased media coverage of the Coogs,since really Art Briles, as well as the push from AD Rhoades to sell season tickets would change the results.

Agree with both of you. UH doesn't need to "deliver" the market anymore than Cincy, DePaul, Pitt or USF need to "deliver" their markets. They just need to sit there, capture a nice 10% share of casual interest and wait to catch lightning in a bottle.

As soon as DP goes on a FF run ala Butler/GM/VCU, everyone in Chitown will be wearing Demon gear. Thats all the BE needs from them and all it needs from UH.

Thats why these threads trying to prove their "ownership" of Houston based on 10 year old polls are stupid and pointless.

really? Other schools in Houston are blowing past us because of Baseball, Track and Field and Womens Basketball? Hardly any of which find any TV air time except for playoffs?

UH fans believe in our school and our value, but trying to convince some people on here that UH has a bright future is like trying to teach my 87 year old grandfather how to set up and check his email.



(who the hell has the patience? You will just have to answer the same dumb questions tomorrow and the next day)

(04-06-2011 10:10 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I would just like to make 1 observation about this oft cited poll:

This survey was done in 2002, ie almost 10 years ago. Since then UH's rivals for fans and publicity have done the following:

-UT has won 1 NC in FB, 2 NC's in BB, 1 NC in S&D and gone to the FF in MBB.

-Rice has won 1 NC in BB

-TCU has been to 2 BCS games and won the Rose Bowl in FB

-Texas A&M has won 4 NC in T&F, 1 in MG, just won the NC in WBB and gone to S16 in MBB.

-Baylor won 1 NC in WBB, 1 NC in MT and has gone to the E8 in MBB

-Texas Tech has made a bowl game and had a winning season in FB every year of B12 play, the only Texas B12 team who can claim so.

Is it POSSIBLE that all the media love and attention and growth of fan bases that these accomplishments have garnered for these schools, while at the same time UH has done nothing close to any of this (besides their 06 CUSA title)...would change the results of that poll if it were taken this weekend?

My point is that you are citing a 10 year old poll as proof that you are the favorite college in Houston. I and others have pointed out that this is dumb because:

1) Since then the schools you compete with have all accomplished a lot more in athletics and big and small, they all add up over time and increase fan interest and in all probability it means that if such a survey were done today UH would NOT be the top pick.

2) Even though you would not be the #1 pick if the survey was done again, it doesn't matter because the BE doesn't need you to be. They just need you to sit in the market, capture some casual interest and wait to go on a major run in something.

(04-06-2011 10:30 AM)CougarMikeUH Wrote:  really? Other schools in Houston are blowing past us because of Baseball, Track and Field and Womens Basketball? Hardly any of which find any TV air time except for playoffs?

UH fans believe in our school and our value, but trying to convince some people on here that UH has a bright future is like trying to teach my 87 year old grandfather how to set up and check his email.



(who the hell has the patience? You will just have to answer the same dumb questions tomorrow and the next day)

(04-06-2011 10:10 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I would just like to make 1 observation about this oft cited poll:

This survey was done in 2002, ie almost 10 years ago. Since then UH's rivals for fans and publicity have done the following:

-UT has won 1 NC in FB, 2 NC's in BB, 1 NC in S&D and gone to the FF in MBB.

-Rice has won 1 NC in BB

-TCU has been to 2 BCS games and won the Rose Bowl in FB

-Texas A&M has won 4 NC in T&F, 1 in MG, just won the NC in WBB and gone to S16 in MBB.

-Baylor won 1 NC in WBB, 1 NC in MT and has gone to the E8 in MBB

-Texas Tech has made a bowl game and had a winning season in FB every year of B12 play, the only Texas B12 team who can claim so.

Is it POSSIBLE that all the media love and attention and growth of fan bases that these accomplishments have garnered for these schools, while at the same time UH has done nothing close to any of this (besides their 06 CUSA title)...would change the results of that poll if it were taken this weekend?

"POINTLESS"

Since I have had complained a lot the last few days, I'll exlain why I feel UH is destined for great things. Hopefully the BE is one of them, if not then I still feel great things are in our future.

My Background:
I have two degrees from UH. An undergrad in Anthropology (cultural studies) and a Masters in Human Resources Development (Think Organizational Development/Business Cultures/Strategic Development).

My UH Experience:
I started my undergrad back in 98 and completed my M.S in early 2010. I lived through the 0-11 season. What has changed since then and especially in the last 5 years or so has blown me away.

If you have not been on the UH campus, then you probably do not know how we have changed (or if your only UH exposure is from reading message boards). Right now, There are tons of different student culture building organizations running around changing the way freshmen think about their time at UH.

My first year at UH, I just went to class and could care less about UH football. I grew up mostly an Oiler fan and did not follow college football (but I still went to a few games to check it out).

There were no cougar pride building groups on campus or organizations other than the Fraternities and a small group of rowdy fans. Now, they have mandatory Cougar Orientation spirit classes, there is a group called the Cougar Patrol who goes around and convinces people to take off any other college's shirts they see (usually by offering free shirts/hats etc), at least once a month the university has Trade in days where people trade in UT gear etc for UH gear. And last I heard you had to fill out an application to be one of the rowdy Bleacher Creatures at Robertson.

The University also has a trading card system in place where students who college cards from various events qualify for scholarships and other rewards for collecting a certain amount of trading cards (which are offered at various cultural and sporting events).

The individual colleges have jumped on board too and started their own Cougar Pride building programs (The business school in particular has a website for it etc and they host a ton of events). My college, the College of Technology also has their events and has a huge tailgating event every week. As a result, college events/socials on campus have seen huge boosts in attendance from people staying on campus to partake.

Leadership at UH:
Renu Khator is a rock star, the students adore her and the alumni are throwing money at her. Look at the endowment growth and all of the new construction on campus, and the push for Tier 1 if you need any proof of her capabilities. She has people believing in UH, see all the Kevin Sumlin hype. I am sure he has had some real offers, but he has chosen to stay loyal to UH. A great part of that is the vision Mrs Khator has for UH.

UH has the potential to be a hot ticket in Houston. The Texas Tech game is evidence of that. People can link the Espn tv ratings numbers, they can show surveys etc. Some people will not believe UH has any potential because they only know UH from the Pre-Khator days.


My limited OD observation:

Observing UH as a business, there has been a critical cultural shift in the way the University operates. Fact: 90% of change management initiatives fail. That is because there is not always alignment in goals or support from the top of an organization down to the front line supervisors. That is not the case at UH. Renu Khator as the Chancellor of the UH system has owned this culture change, she has inspired and championed the culture change initiative. Staff/faculty/employees who didn't share her vision are long gone.

Everyone at UH is on the same page, Faculty, Staff, and Students alike all want UH to be great(for the first time since I have been a student and now an Alumni). And while they may not be able to convince message board tough guys, they have inspired the UH family and soon I do believe city of Houston. That is one of the reasons why UH fans on here may take it a little too personally, we know how things are changing and are not as patient as Renu Khator is.

Will we ever out draw UT? Doubtful, A statewide following vs a city does not translate very well. Are we going to Dominate Houston? No, because there are simply too many people, many of which are not native to Houston. But we don't have to, we just have to convince less than 1% of the population to come to the games (~1% of Houston population is around ~61k). Which IS possible, it will just take time. So far we have been getting greater exposure on TV, bars in Houston and people watch when a team representing your City are playing on TV. I have never seen a Dynamo game, but I have watched in on TV simply because its a Houston team, I do not even really care for the sport. UH will have tons of viewers, they may be casual but the viewers will watch. Football fans in general will watch because we play an exciting brand of football. The die hard UH fans will watch/buy BE network channels because we cant go without. The money is there for TV in Houston. I am sure TV ratings people could post metrics/links/graphics etc so i will not bother.

Why Houston over other cities? Non TV related...that has been played out already
We have a very good job market combined with a relatively low cost of living. People are flooding here from all across the country and we are already the 4th largest city in the States. There is a reason that you can pick almost any major University in the country and instantly guess that the Houston chapter of their Alumni Association is probably one of the largest. I am willing to bet there are quite a few Big East alumnus working in the Houston area. And probably more North East alum living in Houston than in Tampa (Oil and Gas ensures that)

In Closing...
I am not trying to "Sell" anyone on why UH is the next best thing, chances are nothing will convince people who are already against UH, this is just what I have seen with my own eyes. The culture at UH has changed. Fundamentally, that is important because that is one of the key measures of whether or not a change initiative will take root. The behavior now of the student body will change too, it has already, and in time will deliver large dividends in attendance/enrollment/alumni giving.

Ill get off my soap box now and get back to work.

If there were a category for "Potential", I'd put Houston at the top of that list.

The B12 schools are far from Houston and more connected to Dallas, if Houston had TCU type success, it would breed a significantly larger contingent then TCU has.

There is also a signficant amount of talent in Texas no matter what sport you are talking about and Houston has the locale, potential donors, and could generate facilities to overtake Baylor, Texas Tech and TCU in terms of recruiting. Keep in mind SMU is still competing with TCU in the DFW area, bur Rice doesnt offer the same level of comp to Houston, they are as different as night and day.

There is a reason Houston competed at the highest level previously in both football and basketball.

I think you would be wrong just like the people like you (and other old SWC rivals) would have guessed wrong on how we would have done in that pole before it was done.

That poll was after our worse season ever. We now have much much more momentum and you think we would do worse, typical. Just like Mike said, it is like trying to teach something that can't be taught....pointless.

(04-06-2011 10:35 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  2) Even though you would not be the #1 pick if the survey was done again, it doesn't matter because the BE doesn't need you to be. They just need you to sit in the market, capture some casual interest and wait to go on a major run in something.

(04-06-2011 11:39 AM)UH2001 Wrote:  I think you would be wrong just like the people like you (and other old SWC rivals) would have guessed wrong on how we would have done in that pole before it was done.

That poll was after our worse season ever. We now have much much more momentum and you think we would do worse, typical. Just like Mike said, it is like trying to teach something that can't be taught....pointless.

(04-06-2011 10:35 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  2) Even though you would not be the #1 pick if the survey was done again, it doesn't matter because the BE doesn't need you to be. They just need you to sit in the market, capture some casual interest and wait to go on a major run in something.

Yes, you WOULD do worse. I understand you guys love your school, but at best, you'd come in second after UT now and maybe even third after A&M.

What is this momentum you speak of? You have had a few good football seasons that have attracted your students and alums back after a long absence. That is a good thing. However, to sit there and say that this has gotten casual Joe Houston off the Longhorn bandwagon after their incredible success over the last few years is just plain homerism.

Are you really so blinded by homersim that you believe 1) you really would win this poll again and 2) that it matters at all to the BE if you didn't?

Why are you so sure we wouldn't?

You say homerism, then you push UT/ATM homerism right back on us.

i can already hear my grandfather asking me, "What is this?" That is a mouse. "What is it for?" Controlling the cursor on the screen. "OHHH".

Broken record man. Like I said earlier, convincing you is pointless. Feeding you posts on this board is like offering food to a homeless man with a hungry sign. He doesn't want food, just dollar bills to buy liquor.

You might as well take your ball and go home, you cant be convinced to play with us.

(04-06-2011 11:59 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(04-06-2011 11:39 AM)UH2001 Wrote:  I think you would be wrong just like the people like you (and other old SWC rivals) would have guessed wrong on how we would have done in that pole before it was done.

That poll was after our worse season ever. We now have much much more momentum and you think we would do worse, typical. Just like Mike said, it is like trying to teach something that can't be taught....pointless.

(04-06-2011 10:35 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  2) Even though you would not be the #1 pick if the survey was done again, it doesn't matter because the BE doesn't need you to be. They just need you to sit in the market, capture some casual interest and wait to go on a major run in something.

Yes, you WOULD do worse. I understand you guys love your school, but at best, you'd come in second after UT now and maybe even third after A&M.

What is this momentum you speak of? You have had a few good football seasons that have attracted your students and alums back after a long absence. That is a good thing. However, to sit there and say that this has gotten casual Joe Houston off the Longhorn bandwagon after their incredible success over the last few years is just plain homerism.

Are you really so blinded by homersim that you believe 1) you really would win this poll again and 2) that it matters at all to the BE if you did?

(04-06-2011 11:59 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(04-06-2011 11:39 AM)UH2001 Wrote:  I think you would be wrong just like the people like you (and other old SWC rivals) would have guessed wrong on how we would have done in that pole before it was done.

That poll was after our worse season ever. We now have much much more momentum and you think we would do worse, typical. Just like Mike said, it is like trying to teach something that can't be taught....pointless.

(04-06-2011 10:35 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  2) Even though you would not be the #1 pick if the survey was done again, it doesn't matter because the BE doesn't need you to be. They just need you to sit in the market, capture some casual interest and wait to go on a major run in something.

Yes, you WOULD do worse. I understand you guys love your school, but at best, you'd come in second after UT now and maybe even third after A&M.

What is this momentum you speak of? You have had a few good football seasons that have attracted your students and alums back after a long absence. That is a good thing. However, to sit there and say that this has gotten casual Joe Houston off the Longhorn bandwagon after their incredible success over the last few years is just plain homerism.

Are you really so blinded by homersim that you believe 1) you really would win this poll again and 2) that it matters at all to the BE if you did?

I have been told already once on this board to cool it regarding this subject, by a fellow Coog nonetheless, so I won't go into why or respond anymore.

I will say though that the fact that you only think we have a "few good football seasons" as the only reason for any momentum we may have is EXACTLY why you have no clue, imo. I will just leave it at that.

Homerism is about emotion, not facts.

The fact is, UT has blown away you and everyone else in this state since that poll was done. They won the Rose Bowl, won the MNC, played in another, Won two baseball titles and gone to the Final Four.

PLEASE explain to me how there are now more UH fans than UT fans now in Houston, 10 years and all those titles after the poll? Show me the FACTS that would explain this truth you hold so dearly: that a few OK but not great FB seasons for UH during that same period is still enough to make you the toast of town over the Horns? I know you guys hate Texas more than anyone else, but drop the homerism and explain to me why they would NOT run away with this poll over you and everyone else if it were done tomorrow because I'd love to hear it.

(04-06-2011 10:24 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Agree with both of you. UH doesn't need to "deliver" the market anymore than Cincy, DePaul, Pitt or USF need to "deliver" their markets. They just need to sit there, capture a nice 10% share of casual interest and wait to catch lightning in a bottle.

...........

Thats why these threads trying to prove their "ownership" of Houston based on 10 year old polls are stupid and pointless.

Honestly, I agree with your post 100%. Some of my Cougar bretheren did not catch the nuance of your point. To say that any university "captures" or "delivers" a market is silly. In a metro area of six million people, NOBODY "captures" or "delivers" a market. Not UT, not A&M, not the Houston Texans, not even American Idol. College football is popular in Houston, but six million people just aren't tuning in to watch it each week.

For example, look at viewership for the Super Bowl, the most popular football game in the world, that EVERYONE watches, even if they aren't a football fan. How many people watched it last year in the US? 162 million. Out of 308 million. A little over a third. Pretty good, right? College football obviously has a MUCH more limited audience than the Super Bowl, though.

Now for some numbers...In a city of six million people, the top college football games get watched by just a few hundred thousand. In 2009, Texas vs. Texas Tech topped at 364,000 viewers in Houston. About 6% of the population watched the game. To call that "market ownership" or "delivering the market" is a bit of a stretch. The following weekend, the Houston vs. Texas Tech game had just over 300,000 viewers. Don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to say Houston will outdraw Texas. Not at all. This is just for illustration. I'm just saying, to look at 6% viewership and call that "owning" or "delivering" the market is a big stretch.

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