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chess Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-03-2011 05:26 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  
(04-03-2011 05:24 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  
(04-03-2011 01:24 PM)Purple n Gold Wrote:  Im not a redneck.. My family is origanally from the north and my family has only been in USA for 90 years..

What part of the north? I know where I lived in NJ there were plenty of rednecks and I don't even want to talk about the rednecks in PA or the worst racist I have ever encountered world wide in the Boston area.

they are hicks in the north. Redneck is term for southerners....originally for southern sharecroppers.
Don't forget the hayseeds in the midwest!
04-04-2011 08:57 AM
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IULurker Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
You all might find this article interesting given the topic. I had never heard of Butler before until I read this yesterday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/magazi....html?_r=1
04-04-2011 09:04 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
It's funny how one person can whine, "we're not going to start this lame bull$hit again, are we?", and then -- without any sense of irony or embarrassment -- proceeds in the very next sentence to start the lame bull$hit again.

...........

Has anyone ever honestly changed their mind about this issue, because of something they saw posted in a forum like this?
04-04-2011 09:26 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 09:04 AM)IULurker Wrote:  You all might find this article interesting given the topic. I had never heard of Butler before until I read this yesterday.
If there had been "name recognition" surveys in the 1860s and 1870s, I'd guess Butler probably would have scored 80-90% among all the people in America, north and south combined.

Sic transit gloria mundi, etc....
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2011 09:34 AM by Native Georgian.)
04-04-2011 09:33 AM
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The Original Timmy Chan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 08:34 AM)Nevadanatural Wrote:  Slavery was one issue that lead to the civil war but it wasn't even the main issue until after the war started and Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation. It's like most political situations where a number of underlying issues cause friction then one is chosen as the flash point. The differences between the industrialized north and the rural south lead to a plethora of issues.

Well, according to the Vice President of the CSA, slavery was the cornerstone of the new Confederate governmentm, and the "immediate cause" of secession:

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.

-- Alexander Stephens, March 1861
04-04-2011 10:22 AM
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
Game. Set. Match.
04-04-2011 10:59 AM
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ShoreBuc Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
Washington Post also running interesting articles with the 150th Anniversary

Five Myths about the Civil War...well according to the Washington Post
04-04-2011 11:06 AM
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southernmiss4ever Offline
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Post: #28
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
There's a rebel flag flying on Hardy St. here in Hattiesburg right past the USM campus next to a bank.

The leader of the MS KKK lives in the Hattiesburg area (Petal).

I always found it interesting that there are more KKK members in Pennsylvania than in MS, but yet you don't hear anything about that.
04-04-2011 11:53 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #29
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 11:53 AM)southernmiss4ever Wrote:  There's a rebel flag flying on Hardy St. here in Hattiesburg right past the USM campus next to a bank.

The leader of the MS KKK lives in the Hattiesburg area (Petal).

I always found it interesting that there are more KKK members in Pennsylvania than in MS, but yet you don't hear anything about that.

Because PA isnt in the running for all time lynching leader.
04-04-2011 12:07 PM
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #30
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
Funny KKK story (if there is such a thing).

My father was a country boy from Mount Olive, Alabama. Born in 1934, and a teenager in the fifties. As such, he was approached for membership in that renowned civic organization, the Ku Klux Klan.

His answer has become family legend: "No thanks. I'll just hate everybody freelance."
04-04-2011 12:10 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #31
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 12:10 PM)Smaug Wrote:  My father was a country boy from Mount Olive, Alabama. Born in 1934, and a teenager in the fifties. As such, he was approached for membership in that renowned civic organization, the Ku Klux Klan.

His answer has become family legend: "No thanks. I'll just hate everybody freelance."
Your father sounds pretty sharp; good for him!

50/50 chance the "recruiter" was being paid for his effort by the FBI.
04-04-2011 12:42 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #32
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 12:07 PM)panama Wrote:  
(04-04-2011 11:53 AM)southernmiss4ever Wrote:  I always found it interesting that there are more KKK members in Pennsylvania than in MS, but yet you don't hear anything about that.
Because PA isnt in the running for all time lynching leader.
I don't know if it's possible to compile reliable data in such matters, but I sometimes wish there could be a statistical comparison of klan-lynchings/killings in the south with mob/mafia-killings in the north. I admit this is pure guess-work on my part, but I'd guess it comes out roughly the same in terms of how many people were killed. The "look the other way" relationship with much of local law-enforcement was similar, too.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2011 12:47 PM by Native Georgian.)
04-04-2011 12:47 PM
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woodywoodrum Offline
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Post: #33
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 12:42 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(04-04-2011 12:10 PM)Smaug Wrote:  My father was a country boy from Mount Olive, Alabama. Born in 1934, and a teenager in the fifties. As such, he was approached for membership in that renowned civic organization, the Ku Klux Klan.

His answer has become family legend: "No thanks. I'll just hate everybody freelance."
Your father sounds pretty sharp; good for him!

50/50 chance the "recruiter" was being paid for his effort by the FBI.

You know, here we are 150 years after the war with the greatest loss of life in America's history, and look at the posts here and at the Commercial-Appeal. The divide in the nation may never completely heal as both learned persons and joe schmoe off the street all have differing opinions and different reactions to any discussion of the war. Amazing.
04-04-2011 12:48 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #34
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 12:47 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(04-04-2011 12:07 PM)panama Wrote:  
(04-04-2011 11:53 AM)southernmiss4ever Wrote:  I always found it interesting that there are more KKK members in Pennsylvania than in MS, but yet you don't hear anything about that.
Because PA isnt in the running for all time lynching leader.
I don't know if it's possible to compile reliable data in such matters, but I sometimes wish there could be a statistical comparison of klan-lynchings/killings in the south with mob/mafia-killings in the north. I admit this is pure guess-work on my part, but I'd guess it comes out roughly the same in terms of how many people were killed. The "look the other way" relationship with much of local law-enforcement was similar, too.

Seriously? Mafia killings? Come on now. It happened, it's part of history. Lets not muddle it with a comparison that does not apply.
04-04-2011 12:57 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #35
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
Alex Stephens is a largely-forgotten figure (probably about as well-known as Benjamin Butler), so it's strange that people who normally wouldn't even mention his opinions on anything -- and certainly wouldn't agree with them -- will suddenly act as if he is The Ultimate Authority when it suits their needs.

Strange, too, how Stephens' words spoken at one moment in time are taken (by some) as the definitive symbol for the views of millions of other people, both in the 1860s and since then. I could play a similar game with certain words spoken by Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses Grant, and other Northern/Union leaders of that era. You should all see the reaction that some of Lincoln's words, especially, have on certain people who dislike/despise the Confederacy. Lincoln could be very -- how to say this? -- candid on the subject of how blacks and whites should best get along. The historically-curious can do the reserach for themselves, or just order it online from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Forced-into-Glory-...7&sr=1-1#_

Of course, these are not the words engraved on Lincoln's monuments, or quoted in the grade-school textbooks, so some people refuse to accept -- they simply Cannot Believe -- that Lincoln said them. But even if they could be shown the proof and forced to realize that he said these things in public speeches, letters to his Army officers, Cabinet-members, newspaper editors, constituents, etc., I still doubt it would change their minds. The status of Lincoln + his supporters as the Good White People (and the corollary status of the Confederates as the Bad White People) are articles of faith with them, and all the evidence that doesn't fit with that faith is simply blotted out of their little minds as too painful or confusing to deal with.

In fairness to Lincoln, he was a politician; a man who said a great many things, and what he said on Wednesday to Mr. Douglas may not necessarily have been what he said on Saturday to Mr. Douglass. I do not think he should be judged solely on the basis of his "worst" deeds or his "worst" words or impulses. I just wish the critics of Alexander Stephens (and other CSA leaders) would extend him, and them, the same courtesy.
04-04-2011 01:31 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #36
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 12:57 PM)panama Wrote:  Seriously? Mafia killings? Come on now. It happened, it's part of history. Lets not muddle it with a comparison that does not apply.
What's "unserious" about Mafia/mob-killings?
04-04-2011 01:33 PM
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Pony94 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-03-2011 01:38 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  
(04-03-2011 01:27 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  
(04-03-2011 08:01 AM)Smaug Wrote:  There a people in Alabama who still haven't surrendered.

Still several pockets of resistance here in south Mississippi as well.

There is huge section of Texas that still wants to go back to the Republic of Texas. It's not a coincidence that Ron Raul is there congressman.

You and I should take Austin over from the damn hippies.
04-04-2011 01:35 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #38
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 12:48 PM)woodywoodrum Wrote:  The divide in the nation may never completely heal as both learned persons and joe schmoe off the street all have differing opinions and different reactions to any discussion of the war. Amazing.
+1.

The "healing" (such as it is) is probably the result of younger generations never really being taught history in the first place. It's hard (not impossible, but difficult) to feel "divided" over something you've never been told about.
04-04-2011 01:36 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #39
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 01:33 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(04-04-2011 12:57 PM)panama Wrote:  Seriously? Mafia killings? Come on now. It happened, it's part of history. Lets not muddle it with a comparison that does not apply.
What's "unserious" about Mafia/mob-killings?

Trying minimize people being dragged from their homes and lynched by comparing it to an unrelated series of killings. It's the "oh but they killed people too" argument. The problem with argument is that America Mob Killings almost always involved people in the Mob. There were no a sustained form of terrorism carried out for a 100 years in full public view with the intent of keeping an entire group of citizens in line. Any comparison comes off as trite at best. It is not the same. The question that was originally asked was why despite having more KKK members that MS does PA not get the same rep. The answer has nothing to do with the Irish Mob or the Mafia. The answer is that PA does not have a history of African-Americans and other minorities ending up hanging from a tree.
04-04-2011 01:44 PM
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GreenBison Offline
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Post: #40
RE: OT: Civil War: 150 years later. Special Report from Memphis Commerical Appeal
(04-04-2011 01:35 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  
(04-03-2011 01:38 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  
(04-03-2011 01:27 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  
(04-03-2011 08:01 AM)Smaug Wrote:  There a people in Alabama who still haven't surrendered.

Still several pockets of resistance here in south Mississippi as well.

There is huge section of Texas that still wants to go back to the Republic of Texas. It's not a coincidence that Ron Raul is there congressman.

You and I should take Austin over from the damn hippies.

Funny you mention the Hippies in Austin. I just finished reading a book about Stevie Ray Vaughn's life, and in the book they talked a bunch about the hippies in Austin.
04-04-2011 02:28 PM
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