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outsideualr Offline
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Post: #1
There's definitely something missing in our
program. And I don't think it's just that I've gotten older, although that might have something to do with it, but it used to be more exciting. More fun. More energy. When the guy that started this board is giving up on the team, that says a lot. And others like myself who've been season ticket holders for twenty years or more or starting to give up on the program, it's plain as the nose on your face that something must be done. We can't wait year after year for something to change. Someone told me something last night that made perfect sense. If you keep doing the same things over and over, you can't expect to get different results.

We got rid of the Trojans in Motion. We've gotten rid of Curtis's dancing.
Our traditions keep slipping away and traditions are what make a program. People talk about Western's traditions. Think of the coaches who have been at Western who have moved on to bigger and better things. Clem Haskins, Ralph Willard, Darren Horn and others. Not one of our coaches has ever moved up to a bigger program. That tells you something right there. Western fans are already talking about firing their coach after one mediocre season, a coach who has taken them to the big dance. It tells me the reason they're good is that they're committed to excellence. The fans and administration will not tolerate mediocrity. Just chew on that for awhile!01-lauramac2
02-18-2011 11:24 AM
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mjs Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 11:24 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  program. And I don't think it's just that I've gotten older, although that might have something to do with it, but it used to be more exciting. More fun. More energy. When the guy that started this board is giving up on the team, that says a lot. And others like myself who've been season ticket holders for twenty years or more or starting to give up on the program, it's plain as the nose on your face that something must be done. We can't wait year after year for something to change. Someone told me something last night that made perfect sense. If you keep doing the same things over and over, you can't expect to get different results.

We got rid of the Trojans in Motion. We've gotten rid of Curtis's dancing.
Our traditions keep slipping away and traditions are what make a program. People talk about Western's traditions. Think of the coaches who have been at Western who have moved on to bigger and better things. Clem Haskins, Ralph Willard, Darren Horn and others. Not one of our coaches has ever moved up to a bigger program. That tells you something right there. Western fans are already talking about firing their coach after one mediocre season, a coach who has taken them to the big dance. It tells me the reason they're good is that they're committed to excellence. The fans and administration will not tolerate mediocrity. Just chew on that for awhile!01-lauramac2

Do you have any suggestions? I have to admit I am out of ideas. I tend to believe "we are what we are". A fairly solid midmajor program, in a midmajor conference. No better, no worse. You believe we can be a lot better. I guess I really don't. I guess that's why I don't see a last 2nd loss to Western Kentucky, the premier program in the league, as a reason for doom and gloom. Yes, I'm quite upset we lost. I would much rather we had won. But, neither I nor the coaches can do much about missed free throws or a bad bounce at the end. We play them again tomorrow the bounces might just go our way.
02-18-2011 01:24 PM
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mjs Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 01:24 PM)mjs Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 11:24 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  program. And I don't think it's just that I've gotten older, although that might have something to do with it, but it used to be more exciting. More fun. More energy. When the guy that started this board is giving up on the team, that says a lot. And others like myself who've been season ticket holders for twenty years or more or starting to give up on the program, it's plain as the nose on your face that something must be done. We can't wait year after year for something to change. Someone told me something last night that made perfect sense. If you keep doing the same things over and over, you can't expect to get different results.

We got rid of the Trojans in Motion. We've gotten rid of Curtis's dancing.
Our traditions keep slipping away and traditions are what make a program. People talk about Western's traditions. Think of the coaches who have been at Western who have moved on to bigger and better things. Clem Haskins, Ralph Willard, Darren Horn and others. Not one of our coaches has ever moved up to a bigger program. That tells you something right there. Western fans are already talking about firing their coach after one mediocre season, a coach who has taken them to the big dance. It tells me the reason they're good is that they're committed to excellence. The fans and administration will not tolerate mediocrity. Just chew on that for awhile!01-lauramac2

Do you have any suggestions? I have to admit I am out of ideas. I tend to believe "we are what we are". A fairly solid midmajor program, in a midmajor conference. No better, no worse. You believe we can be a lot better. I guess I really don't. I guess that's why I don't see a last 2nd loss to Western Kentucky, the premier program in the league, as a reason for doom and gloom. Yes, I'm quite upset we lost. I would much rather we had won. But, neither I nor the coaches can do much about missed free throws or a bad bounce at the end. We play them again tomorrow the bounces might just go our way.

To follow-up, for many years I honestly believed we could be the premier basketball program in the State. When Alltel was being built I saw no reason we couldn't be like Memphis, Louisville, Cincinatti, etc. However, it can't happen when the media, citizenry, business leaders, etc. don't give a crap about your program. You believe winning cures everything. I believe you need the resources, fan support, media backing, etc. before you can build a bigtime program. When Newell had free reign to do as he pleased and spend what he wanted to, you saw the results. It almost bankrupted our program, but we did win. Newell was a quick fix and it really did work for awhile until financial realities set in. Now if we want a successful program we need to build it from the ground up with a solid foundation. I believe Chris is trying to do that.
02-18-2011 01:38 PM
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LRTrojan Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 01:38 PM)mjs Wrote:  Now if we want a successful program we need to build it from the ground up with a solid foundation. I believe Chris is trying to do that.


If he's trying, he's not getting it done. How many years does it take? Chris has been here eight years or more, and the only thing that's really improved basketball wise is the women's program. Why, because he hired one of the best coaches in the country. He needs to do that for the men's program. This program is stagnant, and nobody can convince me of anything else. I'm sick and tired of hearing "we've got to value the basketball." Reminds me of Platt always saying "we're growing." And Platt was right, we've grown stagnant.
02-18-2011 02:42 PM
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RichHick Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 02:42 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 01:38 PM)mjs Wrote:  Now if we want a successful program we need to build it from the ground up with a solid foundation. I believe Chris is trying to do that.


If he's trying, he's not getting it done. How many years does it take? Chris has been here eight years or more, and the only thing that's really improved basketball wise is the women's program. Why, because he hired one of the best coaches in the country. He needs to do that for the men's program. This program is stagnant, and nobody can convince me of anything else. I'm sick and tired of hearing "we've got to value the basketball." Reminds me of Platt always saying "we're growing." And Platt was right, we've grown stagnant.

Thanks LRTrojan - couldn't have said it any better myself.
02-18-2011 03:33 PM
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mjs Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 03:33 PM)RichHick Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 02:42 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 01:38 PM)mjs Wrote:  Now if we want a successful program we need to build it from the ground up with a solid foundation. I believe Chris is trying to do that.


If he's trying, he's not getting it done. How many years does it take? Chris has been here eight years or more, and the only thing that's really improved basketball wise is the women's program. Why, because he hired one of the best coaches in the country. He needs to do that for the men's program. This program is stagnant, and nobody can convince me of anything else. I'm sick and tired of hearing "we've got to value the basketball." Reminds me of Platt always saying "we're growing." And Platt was right, we've grown stagnant.

Thanks LRTrojan - couldn't have said it any better myself.

My guess is that Coach K, Bill Self, or Roy Williams aren't coming. On one hand I certainly give Chris a lot of credit for getting Joe Foley. On the other hand, he was lucky that Joe happened to be coaching an hour away from our campus and apparently loves the State of Arkansas.
02-18-2011 03:53 PM
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LRTrojan Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 03:53 PM)mjs Wrote:  My guess is that Coach K, Bill Self, or Roy Williams aren't coming. On one hand I certainly give Chris a lot of credit for getting Joe Foley. On the other hand, he was lucky that Joe happened to be coaching an hour away from our campus and apparently loves the State of Arkansas.


No, none of those are coming, but what makes you think that there isn't a better coach out there than Steve Shields? This country is full of good coaches, and there are a lot that are even better than Mike Newell. You've just got to get out of your office and look farther than the end of your nose, like we did when Shields was hired, and even Porter for that matter. We'll never know what Porter would have done had he stayed longer. He won 18 games three years in a row, and didn't have any hick-ups like Steve has had. It's pretty obvious what Steve's MO is. Up and down, but not win the tournament.
02-18-2011 04:17 PM
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mjs Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 04:17 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 03:53 PM)mjs Wrote:  My guess is that Coach K, Bill Self, or Roy Williams aren't coming. On one hand I certainly give Chris a lot of credit for getting Joe Foley. On the other hand, he was lucky that Joe happened to be coaching an hour away from our campus and apparently loves the State of Arkansas.


No, none of those are coming, but what makes you think that there isn't a better coach out there than Steve Shields? This country is full of good coaches, and there are a lot that are even better than Mike Newell. You've just got to get out of your office and look farther than the end of your nose, like we did when Shields was hired, and even Porter for that matter. We'll never know what Porter would have done had he stayed longer. He won 18 games three years in a row, and didn't have any hick-ups like Steve has had. It's pretty obvious what Steve's MO is. Up and down, but not win the tournament.

Obviously there are coaches out there better than Steve. Hiring the right one is a crapshoot- look what's gone on in Fayetteville the last 10 years. We have yet to hire a successful baseball coach (I'm hoping Norwood will change that), and we've been trying for 25 years. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to hire the best coach we can. I'm just not as confidant as you that he will be better than Steve. If I were to agree with you that Steve was "mediocre", by definition that would mean half the coaches were better than him and half were worse. So yes, we could do better or we could do worse.

A member of this board told me a couple of days ago that he thought Steve still had some years left on his contract. I don't know if that is true or not. But, if it is, any talk about firing Steve is simply nonsense since we don't have money to pay a buyout.
02-18-2011 04:36 PM
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DollarBill Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
My gut feeling from a distance is that Chris Peterson does not have the heart to fire the head coach. It's not a simple matter. Besides the future of the head coach there are several Assistants to think about as well. I personally believe there is little or no thought being given to a coaching change for at least another year. But, how about a re-assignment? I once heard that there is a hundred or more people at UALR with salaries exceeding $100,000. A coach could be given the title of Professor, Asst. Prof. Visiting Prof. Chair or Vice Chair, and on and on. Have no idea what a Vice Chair is but, it sounds like a comfortable seat. A Visiting Professor? Maybe just a drive thru would be enough.
02-18-2011 05:19 PM
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LRTrojan Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 04:36 PM)mjs Wrote:  Obviously there are coaches out there better than Steve. Hiring the right one is a crapshoot- look what's gone on in Fayetteville the last 10 years. We have yet to hire a successful baseball coach (I'm hoping Norwood will change that), and we've been trying for 25 years. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to hire the best coach we can. I'm just not as confidant as you that he will be better than Steve. If I were to agree with you that Steve was "mediocre", by definition that would mean half the coaches were better than him and half were worse. So yes, we could do better or we could do worse.

A member of this board told me a couple of days ago that he thought Steve still had some years left on his contract. I don't know if that is true or not. But, if it is, any talk about firing Steve is simply nonsense since we don't have money to pay a buyout.


I guess it's a crap shoot anytime you hire a new coach, but hell, you have to try something different. You can't just say, well, we might get one worse than Steve. You can't just sit on your ass and expect the fans to continue to put up with the kind of mediocre basketball we've had for the past how many years, with not much hope of any post season.

And if this school hires a coach and gives him a contract that we can't afford to buy ourselves out of, then they ought to fire the person who got us into that type of contract. Shields hasn't done anything to warrant a five year contract in the first place. I suppose that they felt they had to give Shields one since they gave one to Foley. Foley has earned his. You should never give a coach a contract that you can't pay off if the need arises.
02-18-2011 05:24 PM
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DollarBill Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
I remember reading that Foley's contract was being worked on, assume it was extended. Was not aware that Shield's contract had been extended . I remember the 7 year deal, and was thinking this was the 5th year on that. But that's all I know about contracts. If Coach Shield's contract has been extended another 5 years, that pretty much sets it in concrete.
02-18-2011 05:56 PM
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LRTrojan Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
It was several years ago that I remember reading something about Shields, Foley, and Peterson being given five year contracts. Anyone remember that?
02-18-2011 06:22 PM
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mjs Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 05:19 PM)DollarBill Wrote:  My gut feeling from a distance is that Chris Peterson does not have the heart to fire the head coach. It's not a simple matter. Besides the future of the head coach there are several Assistants to think about as well. I personally believe there is little or no thought being given to a coaching change for at least another year. But, how about a re-assignment? I once heard that there is a hundred or more people at UALR with salaries exceeding $100,000. A coach could be given the title of Professor, Asst. Prof. Visiting Prof. Chair or Vice Chair, and on and on. Have no idea what a Vice Chair is but, it sounds like a comfortable seat. A Visiting Professor? Maybe just a drive thru would be enough.

I agree with you on that. I thought there was 0% chance Steve would be fired after last season. I thought if he had another bad year, this season, he might be in trouble. Looks like he'll double his wins, from last season, so I also think he's safe. I'm not quite as confidant, as I was last year, but I have heard no indication that he won't be back.
02-18-2011 06:28 PM
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insideualr Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
Steve will be back and he will have bigs that fit his style of play.

Now, I will say it again, I want progress. You don't have to win the games to show progress.

Do you see player development?

Gus looks like he is developing into a player that will be in the rotation. Chuck looks like he will be to.

Do you see building blocks for next year?

There has been improvement there.

Is there a system on offense?

There is this year. We seem to have a little more than just one on one to the hoop

Is there a system on defense?

We have issues there. We don't no what to do and we don't have enough talent in the paint to stop most teams.

If the promise of WN and company was not there, I would be ready for a change but I think Steve has finally landed a program changer. Without that hope, I would say you have seen everything Steve can do at UALR.

So, let's hope that these group can win enough games to make it to the conference finals. He will have to land a sg to go with this mix.

If the team wins less than 15 games and gets put out in the 1st round of the tournament NEXT YEAR, then for the love of God, let's give someone else a try.

If you have a 6 figure job, then you have to have your big boy pants on. People expect results for that kind of money. If you want a life time job, then coaching at the high school level will pay less but be more stable.

In my field the day you stop learning new product is the day you go the way of the equipment you are working on. When it goes end of life/end of service, you will too. That is the cost of making 6 figure money.

That is the cost of "playing in the show" for a D1 college coach. Produce or someone else will get a chance to produce.
02-18-2011 07:20 PM
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LRTrojan Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 06:28 PM)mjs Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 05:19 PM)DollarBill Wrote:  My gut feeling from a distance is that Chris Peterson does not have the heart to fire the head coach. It's not a simple matter. Besides the future of the head coach there are several Assistants to think about as well. I personally believe there is little or no thought being given to a coaching change for at least another year.

I agree with you on that. I thought there was 0% chance Steve would be fired after last season. I thought if he had another bad year, this season, he might be in trouble. Looks like he'll double his wins, from last season, so I also think he's safe. I'm not quite as confidant, as I was last year, but I have heard no indication that he won't be back.


I don't know that doubling eight wins is much to write home about, but I certainly agree with you and DollarBill that Chris Peterson isn't going to make any changes. This program is going nowhere, because evidently most Trojan fans don't give a damn whether we ever have a winning program or not.
02-18-2011 07:29 PM
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insideualr Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 07:29 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 06:28 PM)mjs Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 05:19 PM)DollarBill Wrote:  My gut feeling from a distance is that Chris Peterson does not have the heart to fire the head coach. It's not a simple matter. Besides the future of the head coach there are several Assistants to think about as well. I personally believe there is little or no thought being given to a coaching change for at least another year.

I agree with you on that. I thought there was 0% chance Steve would be fired after last season. I thought if he had another bad year, this season, he might be in trouble. Looks like he'll double his wins, from last season, so I also think he's safe. I'm not quite as confidant, as I was last year, but I have heard no indication that he won't be back.

Bob, I care but I know that Steve will be back next year with WN and have a chance to earn the right for more years. At some point we have to either make the conference finals or take a chance that someone else can get us there.:007:

I don't know that doubling eight wins is much to write home about, but I certainly agree with you and DollarBill that Chris Peterson isn't going to make any changes. This program is going nowhere, because evidently most Trojan fans don't give a damn whether we ever have a winning program or not.
02-18-2011 07:42 PM
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LRTrojan Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 07:20 PM)insideualr Wrote:  If the promise of WN and company was not there, I would be ready for a change but I think Steve has finally landed a program changer. Without that hope, I would say you have seen everything Steve can do at UALR.

So, let's hope that these group can win enough games to make it to the conference finals. He will have to land a sg to go with this mix.

If the team wins less than 15 games and gets put out in the 1st round of the tournament NEXT YEAR, then for the love of God, let's give someone else a try.

If you have a 6 figure job, then you have to have your big boy pants on. People expect results for that kind of money. If you want a life time job, then coaching at the high school level will pay less but be more stable.

In my field the day you stop learning new product is the day you go the way of the equipment you are working on. When it goes end of life/end of service, you will too. That is the cost of making 6 figure money.

That is the cost of "playing in the show" for a D1 college coach. Produce or someone else will get a chance to produce.


Will Neigbour will be no more than Chastity is to the women's program, and she is a proven product. And we haven't won any Sunbelt championships with her.

How long is long enough for one to expect those results? How long do you think someone has to produce? Eight, nine, or fifteen years? You guys are just to close to Shields, and don't want to see Obama's unemployment numbers go higher. I'd be willing to bet that if he hasn't won the tournament in five years, you guys still won't want to let go of Shields.

I won't be around for five more years of this ****. Maybe UCA wants to have a winner. And I'll be they won't **** around with Corliss for eight years if he doesn't produce. I can get to Conway in 30 minutes. It take me 25 to get to the Jack.
02-18-2011 09:00 PM
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LR Alum Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 06:22 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  It was several years ago that I remember reading something about Shields, Foley, and Peterson being given five year contracts. Anyone remember that?

Unless the did something on the low, Shields contract expires June 2013. See link:

Contract Extension
02-18-2011 09:05 PM
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LR Alum Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
(02-18-2011 09:05 PM)LR Alum Wrote:  
(02-18-2011 06:22 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  It was several years ago that I remember reading something about Shields, Foley, and Peterson being given five year contracts. Anyone remember that?

Unless the did something on the low, Shields contract expires June 2013. See link:

Contract Extension

I'm just guessing, I would think his buyout is probably around $350,000 or below. But then you would have to throw in a the cost to hire a new coach, maybe another $350,000 or so to pay while paying Shields too. So Chris would need about $700,000 or so to make a change after this season. From that it looks like Shields is safe until after the 2012-13 season. Unless Peterson really wants him gone or Shields leaves on his own.
02-18-2011 09:14 PM
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insideualr Offline
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RE: There's definitely something missing in our
I think he will be back with the big recruit: WN. If he can't do anything with him, then we need a change at that point.
02-18-2011 09:31 PM
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