The upside for Louisville would be playing UC twice a year, and WVU is developing into a rival. However, I'm sorry if it offends people, but you just won't find any UofL fans or athletic department members excited about having a full 1/3 of the Big East games against USF, UCF/Houston, and TCU.

(02-14-2011 04:01 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  The upside for Louisville would be playing UC twice a year, and WVU is developing into a rival. However, I'm sorry if it offends people, but you just won't find any UofL fans or athletic department members excited about having a full 1/3 of the Big East games against USF, UCF/Houston, and TCU.

Agreed... but at the end of the day someone gets screwed or you have to go to non-geographical divisions and spread the schools with little basketball history around each division equally. I also am not sure that Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall, Georgetown, etc., care about UC hoops enough to want them as part of any division they are in. At the end of the day fan bases all over the league will be ticked off.

(02-14-2011 04:10 PM)mlb Wrote:  Agreed... but at the end of the day someone gets screwed or you have to go to non-geographical divisions and spread the schools with little basketball history around each division equally. I also am not sure that Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall, Georgetown, etc., care about UC hoops enough to want them as part of any division they are in. At the end of the day fan bases all over the league will be ticked off.

This is basically what has to happen, as it's impossible to make everyone happy. If everyone hates it, then we know that everyone was treated fairly (AKA everyone was treated like crap).

Hence. we are back tp bunch of pissed off people wanting a split!

(02-14-2011 03:53 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-14-2011 02:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  No matter who you replace the 2nd TCU with, that division is still weak, outside of WVU and UofL...

You know better than to think that it will be that way forever. UC will not be a rollover team forever (they aren't this year). You seem to forget that UC is a higher rated school for basketball all time than WVU. Nobody wanted to come in to replace Huggins. If UC makes a change at head coach then there will be more interest this time around than last time around...

In case you've forgotten, WVU's history is longer, and as storied as UC's. WVU alumnus Hot Rod Hundley was the clown prince of basketball before the Harlem Globtrotters. Mr. Clutch, Jerry West, whose silhouette adorns the NBA logo, is another WVU alumnus. So is Rod Thorn, current President of the 76ers, former NBA Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations from 1986-2000. He rejoined the Nets front office in 2000, and was named the NBA Executive of the Year in 2002 after the Nets made the NBA Finals for the first time ever.

On a side note, here's a list of the top 25 winningest schools in NCAA Division 1 history...

Quote:Rank College Wins Losses Winning percent
1 Kentucky 2023 638 .760
2 North Carolina 2004 720 .736
3 Kansas 2003 796 .716
4 Duke 1912 822 .699
5 Syracuse 1783 811 .687
6 Temple 1740 966 .643
7 St. John's 1703 884 .658
8 UCLA 1686 744 .694
9 Notre Dame 1674 920 .645
10 Pennsylvania 1664 971 .631
11 Indiana 1651 930 .640
11 Utah 1651 875 .654
13 Illinois 1630 868 .653
14 Western Kentucky 1623 793 .672
15 Washington 1617 1057 .605
16 Texas 1610 955 .628
17 Brigham Young (BYU) 1608 1000 .617
17 Oregon State 1608 1198 .573
19 Louisville 1607 844 .656
20 Purdue 1594 933 .631
21 West Virginia 1581 979 .618
22 Princeton 1574 995 .613
23 Cincinnati 1572 931 .628
24 Arizona 1565 872 .642
25 North Carolina State 1554 940 .623

Note the placement of our respective institutions. I will admit that UC is very close, and has a better winning percentage at the moment. But I wouldn't call UC the superior of the 2 schools...

I think UC will improve eventually. But I don't know if it will happen with Mick, and I was basing my prediction upon all available facts at the moment. At the moment, UC ain't one of the better teams. That's not a permanent state. But I was speaking about the present...

(02-14-2011 02:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  No matter who you replace the 2nd TCU with, that division is still weak, outside of WVU and UofL...

We aren't going to stay down forever...Top 10 all time rated bball programs don't stay down forever.....

Bit, total wins is not the best stat for debating basketball schools, as some have played many seasons more than others. Taking aside the opinions of anyone in this thread, I have never seen an "all-time" list that has UC behind WVU. WVU has a fine history, but any 3rd party is going to place the Bearcats ahead based on the national titles.

(02-14-2011 06:41 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(02-14-2011 02:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  No matter who you replace the 2nd TCU with, that division is still weak, outside of WVU and UofL...

We aren't going to stay down forever...Top 10 all time rated bball programs don't stay down forever.....

I see nobody read my entire post...

Quote:I think UC will improve eventually. But I don't know if it will happen with Mick, and I was basing my prediction upon all available facts at the moment. At the moment, UC ain't one of the better teams. That's not a permanent state. But I was speaking about the present...

got it...and I agree with both of your points Bit:
we don't know if it will happen with Mick...looking like not at this point but who knows
we are not one of the better teams in the BE right now...correct. Nor have we been since our gutted, limping, and left for dead thanks to Nancy Zimpher program entered into the fray.

but I'm not bitter ;-)

This too will pass. All things are impermanent. Even the mountains themselves crumble away in the fullness of time...

(02-14-2011 06:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Note the placement of our respective institutions. I will admit that UC is very close, and has a better winning percentage at the moment. But I wouldn't call UC the superior of the 2 schools...

The two national championships for UC would have to tip it in their favor ..

It doesn't with me...

(02-14-2011 06:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Note the placement of our respective institutions. I will admit that UC is very close, and has a better winning percentage at the moment. But I wouldn't call UC the superior of the 2 schools...

Final fours and titles... 6 FF to 2, 2 titles to 0. Sorry, the WVU history is not nearly as impressive as UC's. On top of that, look up the top basketball programs of all time and UC is ALWAYS in the top 20. I've never seen WVU on any of the top 20 lists.

We shall agree to disagree. Since the 2004-2005 season, WVU has been to the NCAA's every year but one, and the the Mountaineers won the 2007 NIT in the year they were snubbed by the selection committee. Also, with the exception of the 2009 NCAA Tournament, WVU has gone to at least the Sweet Sixteen in every other NCAA tourney appearance...

Where's UC been again the last 6-7 years?

(02-15-2011 09:59 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  We shall agree to disagree. Since the 2004-2005 season, WVU has been to the NCAA's every year but one, and the the Mountaineers won the 2007 NIT in the year they were snubbed by the selection committee. Also, with the exception of the 2009 NCAA Tournament, WVU has gone to at least the Sweet Sixteen in every other NCAA tourney appearance...

Where's UC been again the last 6-7 years?

There is a reason why I said historically... 200 of the 340 (or so) D1 basketball programs have been better than UC over the past 6-7 years. That doesn't suddenly make them better historically.

Historically, WVU has more wins. Isn't the victory total the ultimate judge?

(02-15-2011 11:24 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Historically, WVU has more wins. Isn't the victory total the ultimate judge?

That's too simplistic an approach. As I mentioned, just as an example, I'm not impressed that Team A has 20 more win over Team B if they also have 100 more losses. They may have started playing 8 seasons earlier.

Considering that WVU and UC are close in wins, and UC clearly and without debate is superior in NCAA performance, the Cats win, and that is why 100% of historical program lists have them above WVU.

(02-15-2011 11:24 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Historically, WVU has more wins. Isn't the victory total the ultimate judge?

I don't think so. The main goal is titles.

E.g., as a Georgetown fan, i value the following things, in order of import:

1) National title
2) Regional title (Final 4)
3) Big East tournament title

.. those are the nets worth cutting down and trophies worth having, and i don't care how many wins it takes to achieve them. Games won are only valuable to the extent they bring my team closer to cutting those nets.

E.g., i'd much rather have my team go 24-10 but win the national title than go 32-3 but lose in the sweet 16. The former would be a far more successful season, and I think most fans would feel the same way. Thus, Cincy's national title advantage is impossible to overcome.