(02-08-2011 11:52 AM)SO#1 Wrote:  It was the Big East’s BCS name tag that shielded G’Town and Nova from being at the same level as Gonzaga, and their association with UConn, Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, and Cincinnati made their games more relevant outside the Catholic world.
A TV contract for the Catholic Conference will have limited exposure for their members and in time effect their recruits. That BCS badge placed the Big East, thank to football playing schools, in the same room and at the same table with the other five major conferences. And all the families of the Big East enjoy those privileges even if not all of them invest tens of millions of dollar into football.

I guess there isn't an age minimum here so we have youngsters opining on the BIG EAST. Who were those CONFERENCE USA teams that supposedly shielded Georgetown & Villanova basketball in your fantasy world?
The BCS football selection system didn't even exist until 1998 long after the Big East Basketball success was notated nationally.

The TV contract for the BIG EAST Basketball schools has always had a profitable imprint especially along the northeast urban corridor and now the midwest markets. Being that 4 of the charter schools along with Villanova + Chicago, Milwaukee & brand name Notre Dame are all grouped together, there are far less concerns to TV networks then those yukky TCU-USF basketball match-ups will provide.

And by priviledges, I can assume you are talking about the welfare funded advantages that UConn and other public institutions share by spending enormous amounts of taxpayer money to expand their campus facilities. And for the majority of universities as the NCAA reports have shown, it subsidizes their athletic budgets.
Here is a novel idea. How about UCONN giving Villanova $20 Million dollars to pay for part of our upgrade?....not loan, but grant it to them just like the State of Connecticut granted UCONN $2.3 BILLION in two initiatives since 1995. It's odd that a public school on welfare wants to drag a private school into throwing money down a rat hole.
And when the UCONN check clears, Villanova can go after donations from the other Public schools in support of this boondoggle idea.
Anyone want to compare the non-football athletic budgets & facilities of the current Big East and see how well the Large Public Schools are sharing their "priviledges" with their siblings?
Villanova plays baseball at a municipal field 20 minutes north of campus when they aren't chasing Youth Leagues off the field. Their Crew facilities on the Schuylkill river consists of a Tom Sawyer platform and storing boats in old decaying warehouse on the seedy side of Conshohoken. The shells were used boats purchased from the Naval Academy the last time I saw them.

As far as recruiting, St John's has the #2 ranked class on some national web sites and they aren't playing FBS football any time this century. Kids pick schools for a variety of reasons and neither the academics nor the basketball first attitude of the 7 universities without FBS football is going to scare anyone away.

Again there is nothing but fairy tales, hollow promises and threats of pending doom & gloom to push this boondoggle upon the Villanova community.
The Football schools will make their own decisions and if they want to break away, they know where the door is. ....and oh yeah, leave the $5M exit fee in the basket on the way out. Some of the remaining Private Schools can use that money.

YAWN!!!!
:uberbow:

hmmm, 0 posts and is pimping ucf as the next conference member. for someone who apparently doesn't care about "their problem" u seem to go out of your way to pimp ucf.

fwiw, i go on the nova boards a lot and the general consensus by a mile is for football. they're not stupid (unlike this imposter) they know their bread is buttered with the football schools, add in the sweetheart deal by the big east and you have a no brainer decision for them. i still stand by my original opinion that extending nova an invitation was part of the compromise to bring tcu in and those are the only two programs the big east is seriously considering for expansion the other pieces just don't bring in enough revenue to justify expansion.

(02-08-2011 11:52 AM)SO#1 Wrote:  It was the Big East’s BCS name tag that shielded G’Town and Nova from being at the same level as Gonzaga, and their association with UConn, Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, and Cincinnati made their games more relevant outside the Catholic world.

What makes you think that if there is a split, founding teams like Georgetown won't walk away with the Big East name?

In any event, the Big East was a dominant basketball conference in the 1980s, without the BCS 'shield' or FBS football as part of the conference, and West Virginia and Louisville had nothing to do with that. Uconn didn't either, before 1990.

quo, the conference name is irrelevant. If the football schools decide to go their own way, the value of the Big East name drops considerably. Without the football schools, the non-football schools would be greatly diminished...

Frankly, I think The BEast should rebrand itself once TCU joins. If a split happens, the non-football schools can keep the name. It won't matter one way or the other to the football schools. What's in a name anyway?

(02-08-2011 03:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  What's in a name anyway?

A lot. Ask the Big Ten, Big 12 and Atlantic 10, who have thus far not decided to change their name because of the brand values of those names despite being numerically challenged.

The media still can't figure out who is in the WAC or Mountain West. A split can do that, particularly if the non-Big East football schools ended up with the Big East name.

The teams in the Big Tin would still get all their accolades no matter what the conference name becomes, if it's changed. TV won't suddenly forget them, nor will the alums. Same with the other conferences. In case you've forgotten, the Pac Tin is about to become the Pac XII...

As for why the media has trouble with the WAC and MWC, it's because both were one single conference at one time, and the most recent realignment has had many members move from one conference to the other. I imagine there are some MWC and WAC fans that don't know their entire conference membership any longer...

However, the media wouldn't have the same problem with BEast football schools. Our membership hasn't changed, except for the addition of TCU (at present), and it would only end up as a rebranding of an old product. It could even work massively in our favor. After all, Virginia Tech was a nobody nationally, until the Hokies changed their name from VPI to VT. Prior to that, they were considered just another type of directional school...

(02-08-2011 03:44 PM)USFMike Wrote:  fwiw, i go on the nova boards a lot and the general consensus by a mile is for football. they're not stupid (unlike this imposter) they know their bread is buttered with the football schools, add in the sweetheart deal by the big east and you have a no brainer decision for them. i still stand by my original opinion that extending nova an invitation was part of the compromise to bring tcu in and those are the only two programs the big east is seriously considering for expansion the other pieces just don't bring in enough revenue to justify expansion.

yikes...this guy must be king of the in-breeders. How's that single-wide in the panhandle making out?
And if you could read, you would have seen one of the dozens of my posts going back 13mos regarding this boondoggle on the popular Villanova websites that you claim to visit.

But despite having strapped a helmet on for Coach Talley when he was in the garden of eden, I have no problems opining on this boondoggle idea that will damage the university. Villanova has far better use of the investment money needed to drag itself into the BIG EAST Football where it will have to continue to throw money down a rat hole to try and compete as a small private school with no current fanbase, limited alumni, moderate endowment and wandering around trying to rent a venue to stage games in front of embarassingly sparse crowds.

BE Football announced they were going to 10 football teams and they will do so without Villanova. Whether it's UCF, Houston, Memphis or East Carolina, it's their decision. And splitting off to a new conference and jumping to 12 teams is not out of the question once League politics heat up.

And as far as your definition of a sweetheart deal for this boondoggle, I can only assume your sister is your sweetheart since I don't see the public welfare school of USF kicking in reasonable percentage of the taxpayer money that they grab each year.

Villanova, Georgetown, St John's, Providence, Seton Hall plus the midwest private school brethren of Marquette, Notre Dame & DePaul will remain in the BIG EAST for many years to come. IF the BE Football schools choose to leave the Big East, adding Xavier & Dayton would make sense. Both of those high attendance programs blow every other private basketball team in America out of the water with their annual Basketball Profits.

Villanova's BOT will make a decision that is best for the entire University and not just a segment of fans that seek an impulsive short-sighted upgrade where they have no intention of ever paying for it's cost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiI8Xuum9...r_embedded

(02-08-2011 06:46 PM)NOVA CONSCIENCE Wrote:  

(02-08-2011 03:44 PM)USFMike Wrote:  fwiw, i go on the nova boards a lot and the general consensus by a mile is for football. they're not stupid (unlike this imposter) they know their bread is buttered with the football schools, add in the sweetheart deal by the big east and you have a no brainer decision for them. i still stand by my original opinion that extending nova an invitation was part of the compromise to bring tcu in and those are the only two programs the big east is seriously considering for expansion the other pieces just don't bring in enough revenue to justify expansion.

yikes...this guy must be king of the in-breeders. How's that single-wide in the panhandle making out?
And if you could read, you would have seen one of the dozens of my posts going back 13mos regarding this boondoggle on the popular Villanova websites that you claim to visit.

But despite having strapped a helmet on for Coach Talley when he was in the garden of eden, I have no problems opining on this boondoggle idea that will damage the university. Villanova has far better use of the investment money needed to drag itself into the BIG EAST Football where it will have to continue to throw money down a rat hole to try and compete as a small private school with no current fanbase, limited alumni, moderate endowment and wandering around trying to rent a venue to stage games in front of embarassingly sparse crowds.

BE Football announced they were going to 10 football teams and they will do so without Villanova. Whether it's UCF, Houston, Memphis or East Carolina, it's their decision. And splitting off to a new conference and jumping to 12 teams is not out of the question once League politics heat up.

And as far as your definition of a sweetheart deal for this boondoggle, I can only assume your sister is your sweetheart since I don't see the public welfare school of USF kicking in reasonable percentage of the taxpayer money that they grab each year.

Villanova, Georgetown, St John's, Providence, Seton Hall plus the midwest private school brethren of Marquette, Notre Dame & DePaul will remain in the BIG EAST for many years to come. IF the BE Football schools choose to leave the Big East, adding Xavier & Dayton would make sense. Both of those high attendance programs blow every other private basketball team in America out of the water with their annual Basketball Profits.

Villanova's BOT will make a decision that is best for the entire University and not just a segment of fans that seek an impulsive short-sighted upgrade where they have no intention of ever paying for it's cost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiI8Xuum9...r_embedded

whatever troll, most nova fans have some sense so you're obviously a fraud, no use getting into a pissing match with u. if u honestly believe your tv contract and thus relevance won't go into the sh!tter without cuse, uconn, pitt, etc more power to you.

(02-08-2011 03:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  quo, the conference name is irrelevant. If the football schools decide to go their own way, the value of the Big East name drops considerably. Without the football schools, the non-football schools would be greatly diminished...

Remember, it's basketball that gives the Big East name positive value, not football. It's basketball that established the "Big East" name as a respectable one. If anything, the football side gains some benefits from the reflected glory of the basketball side. As a football conference we get dragged through the media mud all the time. So to the extent that the non-football schools would suffer, it wouldn't be from no longer associating with the football programs of the FBS schools, but their basketball programs.

And there is some value in the name, which is why conferences like the Big10 don't change theirs. Sure, those schools could re-name the conference and it would still be valuable, but their reluctance to change the name shows that they believe that value inheres in the name too.

A split that results in the basketball-only schools keeping the Big East name would, IMO, have the following immediate short-run ramifications:

a) both of the new conferences would be weaker in basketball, because there are good basketball programs on both the basketball-only and football sides of the current Big East conference.

b) the football-only schools would be weaker in football, because they'd lose the identity of the Big East brand, and would no longer have as powerful of a basketball side to prop them up.

Of course no one knows what will happen in the long run. I happen to think that a split that creates an all-sports conference consisting of the current FBS football schools will make those schools, like USF, and that new conference that goes in that direction, stronger. But it's by no means a sure thing.

Now I am the troll after the florida redneck looks foolish.....LOL
I might be the doody-head but you apparently think someone gives a damn what a bunch of yahoos on websites have to say in light of the cold hard facts.

The University posted their current projections accepted by the Trustees in that video survey sent to Alumni.
The University now publicly estimates they will lose MORE money playing FBS in the Big East than their current derficit for sponsoring competitive FCS football.




INCREASED INSTITUTIONAL SUPPORT according to the Survey Video:

Quote:"our current net investment is approximately $4M a year"

(video picture showed $4.2M = 2010 FCS season in which they finished one game short of the NCAA Championship game.)

Quote:"Villanova's total institutional investment in a fully developed FBS Program in the year 2014 would be approximately $7.6M. This represents an increase in total institutional support of $2.7M annually if we adjust our current investment for inflation."

Revenue assumptions include:
Ticket Sales, Big East distribution / revenue share, Annual Fund contributions, corporate sponsorships and merchandise sales.

According to the Survey Video just released by Villanova University, $7.6M is the new estimated Annual LOSS that the University will have to start subsidizing out of the General Fund for a Big East program beginning in 2014. Professor Dan Fulks of Transylvania University was right all along.

FBS = BIGGER FOOTBALL DEFICITS for Villanova.
what a Sweetheart deal.

(02-08-2011 06:46 PM)NOVA CONSCIENCE Wrote:  Villanova, Georgetown, St John's, Providence, Seton Hall plus the midwest private school brethren of Marquette, Notre Dame & DePaul will remain in the BIG EAST for many years to come. IF the BE Football schools choose to leave the Big East, adding Xavier & Dayton would make sense. Both of those high attendance programs blow every other private basketball team in America out of the water with their annual Basketball Profits.

That lineup would practically bankrupt Georgetown. No thanks!

Quote: That lineup would practically bankrupt Georgetown. No thanks!

You act like the Hoyas have another option other than pushing Georgetown football into FBS or trying to join the IVY League and getting it all out of your system.
If the BE Football schools decide to leave the Conference, Georgetown is just another Big East school WITHOUT a FBS football program smong the 7 non-BE football private schools remaining.

If you don't value your extra games with Villanova, Marquette, Notre Dame and St John's then you better beef up that OOC schedule and stay away from Appy State & Wofford.
I know Jay Wright will start avoiding Marist, Lafayette & Monmouth when he can is in a leaner League.

If the BE were ever to split the 8 catholic schools plus Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, and Creighton would be in another universe compared to the A10 now or ever in the past.

(02-09-2011 12:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-08-2011 03:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  quo, the conference name is irrelevant. If the football schools decide to go their own way, the value of the Big East name drops considerably. Without the football schools, the non-football schools would be greatly diminished...

Remember, it's basketball that gives the Big East name positive value, not football. It's basketball that established the "Big East" name as a respectable one. If anything, the football side gains some benefits from the reflected glory of the basketball side. As a football conference we get dragged through the media mud all the time. So to the extent that the non-football schools would suffer, it wouldn't be from no longer associating with the football programs of the FBS schools, but their basketball programs.

And there is some value in the name, which is why conferences like the Big10 don't change theirs. Sure, those schools could re-name the conference and it would still be valuable, but their reluctance to change the name shows that they believe that value inheres in the name too.

A split that results in the basketball-only schools keeping the Big East name would, IMO, have the following immediate short-run ramifications:

a) both of the new conferences would be weaker in basketball, because there are good basketball programs on both the basketball-only and football sides of the current Big East conference.

b) the football-only schools would be weaker in football, because they'd lose the identity of the Big East brand, and would no longer have as powerful of a basketball side to prop them up.

Of course no one knows what will happen in the long run. I happen to think that a split that creates an all-sports conference consisting of the current FBS football schools will make those schools, like USF, and that new conference that goes in that direction, stronger. But it's by no means a sure thing.

Say the non-football schools keep the Big East name, and the football schools choose The BEast, which is very similar, except in the spelling. The name isn't going to win championships. The teams will...

Also, I guess you missed the part where I talked about how Virginia Tech changing their name from Virginia Polytechnic Institute eventually changed media perceptions about the school and led to their rise as the media darling in the east. The name is just a label. It's what's behind the label that counts, and if one of us happens to make the BCS Championship and win it, it won't matter one bit what the conference name may be for our representative. Winning solves any and all problems...

Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, UConn, UC, and UofL would still command respect, since all have been historically strong basketball programs. We would not be weaker. That's 6 strong basketball programs for an 8 (soon to be 9) team conference, and most years all 6 will be in the NCAA tourney. That's 66.666% of the conference (9 members - 75% with 8), which is about equal to us putting 11 teams into the NCAA tourney out of a 16 team conference, which we haven't done yet (although that may soon change). I don't see any weakness there...

The non-football schools; Georgetown, Villanova, ND, and Marquette have been historically strong, with very few bad seasons among those 4 teams of late. St. John's is trying to return to their former glory. But their level of success could knock one of the previous 4 non-football schools from their perch among the better teams. The mediocre trio (Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul) have probably all seen their best days already, and have little to look forward to. DePaul could return to their former glory. But I just don't see it happening...

However, without BCS affiliation, and the rivalries presented by the presence of the football schools who maintain a high level of basketball strength, the non-football schools will have a tough time maintaining their present level of success, for the most part. Their income and prestige would take a huge hit without the football schools, and over time the disparity in funds will only widen the gap between the football schools and the non-football schools...

So a split, accompanied by a name change, would not hurt us in the least, as long as we take care of business on the field. But it would severely damage the non-football schools efforts to maintain pace in the long term...

Lets get real here. Whether Nova joins or not a split is not going to happen. So that part of argument is of no importance. It all comes down to money, Can nova make it work or not. Time will tell.

(01-25-2011 03:09 PM)UofL07 Wrote:  

(01-25-2011 03:02 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  And where does the money come from for this support?

1. Ticket sales? Georgeown plays in the smallest stadium in Division I, and the local residents are trying to block any campus development.
2. Raise tuition to cover schoaraships? Georgetown has the 6th highest tuition in the nation and while the school no longer loses millions a year (it lost $84 million in one year a decade ago), it tries now only to break even.
3. Basketball money? Most of basketball revenues go into paying rent at Verizon Center. The Big East does not allow on-campus agames at Georgetown, and Georgetown does not even have the money to build a for a practice facility for the team.

The program is not competitive, in considerable part because the league it participates in limits Georgetown recruits to a 1250 (out of 1600) or higher on the SAT and does not allow awarding scholarships.

So where is there a scholarship conference out there looking at a school like Georgetown? Apparently, none.

So then why are you complaining that the Big East avoided asking G'town to move up? You yourself admit that the university does not have the financial resources to even offer scholarships. If G'town football lacks the money and ability to be competitive at the FCS level, then there is absolutely no reason why the Big East (a BCS conference) should consider them. I don't understand complaining about the Big East not inviting the Hoyas when you gave a perfect summation of why G'town would not be able to be a contributing member to the football conference.

Even though they are both in FCS, there is a world of difference between Nova and GU football.

Nova has been a D1 school for many years, including before the NCAA's 1A/1AA split. Nova competes at the highest level of FBS, occasionally defeats FBS schools, and its computer rankings frequently estimate that it would currently be a competitive FBS member. For 2010, Nova had a Sagarin rating of 72+, placing them 57th among all D1 schools.

Until recently, GU was a D3 football program. GU moved up to FCS solely because of changes in NCAA rules that mandated that schools play all sports at the same division level. For several years, GU played in a league of former D3 schools in the same predicament. GU has recently moved to a more prominent conference, but one whose members do not offer athletic scholarships for football. For 2010, GU had a Sagarin rating of ~37, placing them 217th of 245 D1 schools.

By way of comparison, the lowest rated FBS school was 1-11 Akron, ranked 206 with a rating of 43 and the lowest ranked AQ school was 2-10 Vandy, ranked 126th with a rating of 58. Nova's rating was comparable to UConn, Michigan, Georgia and KState.

In conclusion, Nova could play competitive FBS football today. GU would require a major upgrade to even be competitive as a mid major FBS school. I would welcome GU if they wanted to make such a commitment. They have access to RFK, Nationals Park or a potential future DC United stadium. But they are light years away from being AQ ready. Nova is arguably ready today with the possible exception of stadium issues.

I'm assuming that this thread was moved over from one of the BE main forums, due to the fact that the banter is actually interesting with only BE fans actually intervening. I'm especially liking the fact that I learned a new word in, "boondoggle".

Good response Oranfefan.

I think the Nova fan makes some good points. Some BE schools want Nova to accept to avoid adding another basketball school or some schools prefer it to keep certain candidates from joining or adding any more CUSA candidates, at all. Some of them want them to stay put and prefer bringing in an established FBS program with the resources already at hand. But none of them seem to care what the best interest of Villanova truly should be or is, at all. It's obvious that Nova is looking heavily into this opportunity that may not happend again...but also has to weigh the financial risks.