Today Dec 29 2010 @ 5:05 PM the gas prices here in Pittsburgh are $3.159 a gallon. Watch for this thing to peak during the summer months.

We really need to get off of OPEC Oil. I can't see why there can't be a compromise between the 2 sides of the aisle. The Right can say that this is a National Security issue while the Left says that this is an Environmental issue. The fact that there hasn't been a compromise yet tells me that neither side really wants a change even though they preach it.

I put this on sticky so we all can look back at this thread as the months go by and add updates to its possible economic impact. If gas prices increase, shipping prices increase etc.

First update...

$3.199 a gallon

About an average of $2.99 a gallon around here. But we have lower gas taxes coupled with Jersey always being one of the cheaper states overall for gasoline. (Lots of refinery activity in northeastern NJ.)

Everything is over $3 here. From what I've seen, the Republicans are willing to invest in alternative energies, but they realize in the short term we need to open up all drilling we have in our country. The democrats want to invest in alternative energies and tax gasoline more without opening up any more drilling locations. Republicans believe that will just hurt our businesses more (I agree), while democrats believe that it will speed up investment into the alternative energies thus speeding up changeover from an oil based economy.

Alternative energies will hurt the economy, primarily because America's industrial infrastructure has forced itself to become dependent upon oil. To utilize an alternative fuel will create less profit, which businessmen won't accept even if the cost is the ruination of planet Earth...

Any other excuse is BULLSH!T - unless they're talking about the cost of the massive retooling required because the vast majority of our engineers are incompetent...

Around $3.10 here in L'ville.

2.89 in Dyersburg, TN. on 12.30.10

as of today 2/25/11 gas is 3.19.

(12-30-2010 09:03 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Alternative energies will hurt the economy, primarily because America's industrial infrastructure has forced itself to become dependent upon oil. To utilize an alternative fuel will create less profit, which businessmen won't accept even if the cost is the ruination of planet Earth...

Any other excuse is BULLSH!T - unless they're talking about the cost of the massive retooling required because the vast majority of our engineers are incompetent...

You could not be further from the truth. Our electrical grid is agnostic as to what type of generator produces the electricity. The industrial infrastructures that are still left in the US use electricity, not gasoline or other oil based energies. There is very little retooling to be done on those places.

The issue we have is that we are primarily powered by coal firing plants in the USA. Changing our cars and trucks over to electric vehicles only causes us to polute in other ways that can be worse than our current vehicles. Nuclear has issues thanks to the waste storage. Solar is getting more and more efficient, but you need very large areas to produce the power. You also produce varying amounts of power from season to season, meaning you have to plan for the times you produce the least amount of power. Wind is very limited in terms of location it can be implemented, and you can't reliably predict the amount of power they will produce. Therefore you have to have other ways to produce power when the wind is not blowing. None of the renewable options are cheap enough to implement yet. Without the US gov't giving tax rebates for these projects they would never happen.

We are dependent upon fossil fuels, mlb. How do you think the vast majority of electricity in the nation is created? Water power creates a small percentage, as does nuclear, wind, or other lesser used generating strategies. But the vast majority of fuel is produced by burning coal, which is merely oil that has progressed beyond the liquid state, and is far more polluting...

And since you talk about other possibilties for powering vehicles, I notice that fuel cell technology is being ignored. This is clean energy using natural gas that produces water vapor as its exhaust byproduct. But since it is unable to power a car to be driven like Mario Andretti, the nation has ruled it out. This isn't dirty energy at all. It's clean, and puts nothing into the atmosphere that wasn't already there. It just won't allow people to drive fast enough to get speeding tickets. So we refuse to consider it...

(12-31-2010 10:04 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  We are dependent upon fossil fuels, mlb. How do you think the vast majority of electricity in the nation is created? Water power creates a small percentage, as does nuclear, wind, or other lesser used generating strategies. But the vast majority of fuel is produced by burning coal, which is merely oil that has progressed beyond the liquid state, and is far more polluting...

And since you talk about other possibilties for powering vehicles, I notice that fuel cell technology is being ignored. This is clean energy using natural gas that produces water vapor as its exhaust byproduct. But since it is unable to power a car to be driven like Mario Andretti, the nation has ruled it out. This isn't dirty energy at all. It's clean, and puts nothing into the atmosphere that wasn't already there. It just won't allow people to drive fast enough to get speeding tickets. So we refuse to consider it...

Where does natural gas come from? Oil. It requires drilling, something that the left is blocking. The fuel cells also have toxic chemicals contained within, so what do we do with old cells? Also, better technology within the cells and better gearing in the cars will allow them to get the faster speeds you talk about.

That being said, there is no way to change our current power production on a scale without going nuclear. Nuclear has such large waste disposal problems (especially with terrorists trying to get the spent fuel for dirty bombs) that it is not currently a great solution. You say that business is blocking a changeover to alternative energies, I say that business doesn't care as long as it is reliable. There are no other reliable sources at this time.

70% of the world's natural gas reserves are in Russia, and while natural gas may be a byproduct of oil or coal formation, it is the one clean burning one. When used in fuel cells, it's exhaust is water vapor, which means your car spits out about a cloud per day...

Burning oil or coal puts out all kinds of complex hydrocarbons, and many other hazardous/carcinogenic compounds - all of them harmful to the environment. Fuel Cell technology doesn't pollute, or put out any dangerous compounds as a result of the consumption of natural gas. You'll just get your face wet if you put it in front of the exhaust and hold your position...

However, this technology has been ruled out of any discussions in alternative fuels due to the lack of power in cars using present Fuel Cell technology. Presently, fuel cell powered vehicles aren't able to go much beyond 60mph, which is plenty fast enough, if you ask me. After all, don't they still teach that slow and steady wins the race...

I wasn't referring to the exhaust of the fuel cells. I was referring to the cells themselves. They are chemicals that have to be disposed of properly. Just like old computers, monitors, TV's, etc., they have toxic chemicals that need to be disposed of properly. Unfortunately for China, they have been the dumping ground for those items for decades. Now they have very poisoned land in those areas with very high rates of cancer, birth defects, and other side effects due to the poison.

I agree about poisons. But the problems in China are strictly due to unregulated dumping, no worker protection laws, and other such archaic activities that lead to the rise of Unions, the EPA, and other such organizations here in the USA...

Why do you think all these businesses are dumping it there in the first place. They can get away with murder cheap...

i'm convinced that the auto lobby and energy lobby is behind our country not being more readily agreeable (to the people in power) to alternative energy, because if energy is cheaply obtained and easily produced, who makes money off of that? i have no proof of this however.

pure simple naked greed is the only reason i can come up with for there not being solar panels on every house, wind turbines in windy areas and hydroelectric near waterfalls as well as super fuel efficient cars. it doesn't make any sense why other places have better fuel mileage than we do.

pursuit of the dollar in predatory capitalism is killing people, literally.

update

Gas prices have stabilized a little after the holidays. $3.159 for regular, but the prices of a barrel of oil has gone up to around $100.00.

3.219 here in my area.

We're still holding steady around here at the 2.95 to 2.99 mark. Mostly at the 2.99 mark. I expect this Egypt stuff to really cause some big price spikes on crude in the coming days and thus gasoline.

A week or so ago it dropped back to 3.199 but this past week it spiked up to 3.299. Its expected to spike again over the weekend.

Could we be seeing $5 gas prices come summer should be the question. That alone could destroy the little progress we seen in the economy the past 6 months.

Well I guess the administration will more than likely be sending out billions on top of billions to the auto industry so they can help us out. The gas prices here are ridiculous, and why is a question yet to be answered. Why has it come with in the last say 10 years that the oil industry has to make money hand over fist did not do this years ago??? What gives in screwing us know and not then when money was way better than what it is today???