Brewers just landed Greinke for a handful of young players, none of which are that great. That now gives Milwaukee a very good top three of Greinke, Gallardo, and Marcum.

Walt, your move?

They already said they are in love with this team so why add to it "other words they are cheap and refuse to spend money"

(12-19-2010 03:44 PM)Hate U Wrote:  They already said they are in love with this team so why add to it "other words they are cheap and refuse to spend money"

They didn't have to give Aroldis Chapman 30 million dollars.

Yeah, I'm disappointed.

I know we won the Central with this same team, but the other teams continue to improve and we stand pat. We got crushed in the playoffs by the Phillies and they added Cliff Lee to an already formidable starting pitching lineup. Now the Brewers get Greinke. The Cardinals traded for Westbrook at the deadline last year and signed him to go with Wainwright, Carpenter and Garcia.

I was going to buy some tickets for next season, but now I'm thinking otherwise. We're quickly falling to third or fourth place.

(12-19-2010 04:48 PM)Vottomatic Wrote:  Yeah, I'm disappointed.

I know we won the Central with this same team, but the other teams continue to improve and we stand pat. We got crushed in the playoffs by the Phillies and they added Cliff Lee to an already formidable starting pitching lineup. Now the Brewers get Greinke. The Cardinals traded for Westbrook at the deadline last year and signed him to go with Wainwright, Carpenter and Garcia.

I was going to buy some tickets for next season, but now I'm thinking otherwise. We're quickly falling to third or fourth place.

The Cardinals traded away one of their best hitters Ryan Ludwick for Jake Westbrook to keep up with the Reds rotation and subsequently tanked. The Reds did nothing and rolled to an NL Central championship. If there's anyone I trust running the team, it's Walt Jocketty. I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing.

Westbrook sucks haha. I'll be glad as long as he's a Card. We definitely could've made a deal for Greinke, but the thinking is that all of these young guys will be a year older and more experienced. Volquez will be back fully healthy. The Rays used the same methods and they ended up in the WS.

(12-19-2010 04:48 PM)Vottomatic Wrote:  Yeah, I'm disappointed.

I know we won the Central with this same team, but the other teams continue to improve and we stand pat. We got crushed in the playoffs by the Phillies and they added Cliff Lee to an already formidable starting pitching lineup. Now the Brewers get Greinke. The Cardinals traded for Westbrook at the deadline last year and signed him to go with Wainwright, Carpenter and Garcia.

I was going to buy some tickets for next season, but now I'm thinking otherwise. We're quickly falling to third or fourth place.

I wouldn't go that far, but to this point they've done nothing to improve the team. I expect Bruce to get better, but I also expect Rolen to continue to show his age. That could ultimately be a wash. Still no leadoff hitter. LF and SS are still big time question marks. The guys they currently have at those two positions are serviceable, but won't necessarily improve the team from last year.

I'm still amazed at how little KC got in return for Greinke. I'm not even the biggest Alonso fan, but I'd take him over any of the prospects that the Brewers shipped out.

(12-19-2010 05:12 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(12-19-2010 04:48 PM)Vottomatic Wrote:  Yeah, I'm disappointed.

I know we won the Central with this same team, but the other teams continue to improve and we stand pat. We got crushed in the playoffs by the Phillies and they added Cliff Lee to an already formidable starting pitching lineup. Now the Brewers get Greinke. The Cardinals traded for Westbrook at the deadline last year and signed him to go with Wainwright, Carpenter and Garcia.

I was going to buy some tickets for next season, but now I'm thinking otherwise. We're quickly falling to third or fourth place.

The Cardinals traded away one of their best hitters Ryan Ludwick for Jake Westbrook to keep up with the Reds rotation and subsequently tanked. The Reds did nothing and rolled to an NL Central championship. If there's anyone I trust running the team, it's Walt Jocketty. I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing.

1. Maybe there was a reason Jocketty got fired from St. Louis.
2. Jocketty signed Mike Lincoln to a 2 year deal.
3. Jocketty signed Corey Patterson.
4. Jocketty signed Willy Tavares.

I like Jocketty for the most part, but not all of his moves are golden.

Cards investing in starting pitching? Brewers investing in starting pitching? Looks like the Phillies starting rotation blowing up the Reds offense set a precedent. Why worry about trading Ludwick when the Reds can't score off your starting pitching anyway. All they need is a Pujols HR and they win 1-0, because we suck against Wainwright, Carpenter, and Garcia. Greinke made us look stupid last year too. As did all good starting pitchers. Our offense inflated their stats against bad pitching.

(12-19-2010 05:14 PM)FlightWhite15 Wrote:  Westbrook sucks haha. I'll be glad as long as he's a Card. We definitely could've made a deal for Greinke, but the thinking is that all of these young guys will be a year older and more experienced. Volquez will be back fully healthy. The Rays used the same methods and they ended up in the WS.

Westbrook sucks?

After arriving at St. Louis, he went 4-4, 3.48 ERA, 75 IP, 70 hits allowed, 1.25 WHIP. Pretty good for a #4 pitcher. In fact, his career ERA of 4.29 is only slightly worse than Arroyo's career ERA of 4.19.

You might want to check these things before you open your mouth.

(12-19-2010 06:31 PM)Vottomatic Wrote:  

(12-19-2010 05:12 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(12-19-2010 04:48 PM)Vottomatic Wrote:  Yeah, I'm disappointed.

I know we won the Central with this same team, but the other teams continue to improve and we stand pat. We got crushed in the playoffs by the Phillies and they added Cliff Lee to an already formidable starting pitching lineup. Now the Brewers get Greinke. The Cardinals traded for Westbrook at the deadline last year and signed him to go with Wainwright, Carpenter and Garcia.

I was going to buy some tickets for next season, but now I'm thinking otherwise. We're quickly falling to third or fourth place.

The Cardinals traded away one of their best hitters Ryan Ludwick for Jake Westbrook to keep up with the Reds rotation and subsequently tanked. The Reds did nothing and rolled to an NL Central championship. If there's anyone I trust running the team, it's Walt Jocketty. I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing.

1. Maybe there was a reason Jocketty got fired from St. Louis.
2. Jocketty signed Mike Lincoln to a 2 year deal.
3. Jocketty signed Corey Patterson.
4. Jocketty signed Willy Tavares.

I like Jocketty for the most part, but not all of his moves are golden.

Cards investing in starting pitching? Brewers investing in starting pitching? Looks like the Phillies starting rotation blowing up the Reds offense set a precedent. Why worry about trading Ludwick when the Reds can't score off your starting pitching anyway. All they need is a Pujols HR and they win 1-0, because we suck against Wainwright, Carpenter, and Garcia. Greinke made us look stupid last year too. As did all good starting pitchers. Our offense inflated their stats against bad pitching.

On February 5, 2008, the Cincinnati Reds signed Mike Lincoln to a minor league contract. At the end of Spring Training, he was added to the 40-man roster.
(Walt did extend Lincoln later that year, after a decent performance for the Reds in 2008)
On March 3, 2008, the Cincinnati Reds signed Patterson to a minor league contract. At the end of Spring Training, he was added to the 40-man roster.
On April 23, 2008, Walt Jocketty was named GM
You might want to check these things before you open your mouth.

(12-19-2010 03:56 PM)BearcatShane09 Wrote:  

(12-19-2010 03:44 PM)Hate U Wrote:  They already said they are in love with this team so why add to it "other words they are cheap and refuse to spend money"

They didn't have to give Aroldis Chapman 30 million dollars.

Yes, they did.

Didn't we have the best offense in the majors last year? And I think our rotation is damn good and young. I know we have some holes(LF and SS) but damn we did win the central last year, and you have to think our young pitching is only going to improve. We are not the Phillies or even the Brewers. The attendance just wasn't there last year, maybe if the stands fill up this year there will be some money to throw around.

I still think last year was a fluke considering the Cards dominated the Reds head to head and just fell apart against weak competition. They Reds backed into the playoffs and then got destroyed once they got there. They desperately need a leadoff hitter and a power hitter to hit behind Votto. They also need to find someone who can play LF over Gomes. They have solid pitching, but no ace. Just banking on one of the young guys to step up as a Top of the Rotation starters won't get it done.

(12-19-2010 05:14 PM)FlightWhite15 Wrote:  Westbrook sucks haha. I'll be glad as long as he's a Card. We definitely could've made a deal for Greinke, but the thinking is that all of these young guys will be a year older and more experienced. Volquez will be back fully healthy. The Rays used the same methods and they ended up in the WS.

The Rays did trade for SP Matt Garza and their little 2b (can't remember his name - Bartlett?) before they made the WS. They didn't just sit pat. And look at Tampa now; they're still going to be pretty tough, and they play in that really unfair division, but they're window closed. I want the Reds to go after it, now.

They did go get Willis...if Dontrelle regains form, that'll help the rotation big time. I also think the young starting pitching we have will improve this year, and our bullpen will be a strength.

I agree that we still need some lumber from somewhere...but I'm always in the camp that says it's easier to find good hitting than fantastic pitching, concentrate on the rotation 1st, and worry about the hitting later...the Braves used that model for years, and it worked well for them--killer rotation, and an offense that, while reasonable, wasn't spectacular.

I like Jocketty--I think he knows what he's doing. Even though the Phils smoked us last year, it was good to be in the playoffs for the 1st time in a long time. Who knows, there might be some magic on the farm as well.

You'll see me in the $5.00 seats next season frequently...

I'll always be a Reds fan.

I also like Morgan being back with the team--he's a smart ballplayer.

Despite Greinke trade, Reds like their chances
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com | 12/20/10 3:50 PM EST

CINCINNATI -- The Reds weren't trying to acquire Zack Greinke from the Royals, but they probably weren't thrilled to see him land in the National League Central with the Brewers over the weekend.

Greinke, the 2009 American League Cy Young Award winner, is now the ace of the Brewers' rotation -- and it just made Cincinnati's efforts to repeat as division winners a little more difficult. The Reds should be the first to find out just how difficult, because they play the Brewers on Opening Day on March 31, 2011, at Great American Ball Park.

It'd be hard to imagine Greinke not getting that assignment.

Besides Greinke's surprise addition, the Brewers also traded for Shaun Marcum -- who was the Blue Jays' 2010 Opening Day starter -- during the Winter Meetings.

Reds general manager Walt Jocketty is on his family's holiday vacation this week -- a trip he often takes with close friend (and Brewers GM) Doug Melvin and his family. That didn't happen this year, but Melvin certainly didn't have to leave home to get the best souvenir around.

While the Brewers are clearly "all in" for 2011, the Reds are holding their cards close and not taking big risks. Boasting deep pitching to go with NL Most Valuable Player Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, Scott Rolen, Drew Stubbs and Brandon Phillips, they've maintained they don't need to gamble big in order to contend or win the NL Central.

Jocketty certainly had the talent and depth of prospects in place if he wanted to make a competitive bid for Greinke. However, Cincinnati is at the ceiling of its roughly $80 million budget, and the 27-year-old Greinke is owed $27 million over the next two seasons before he can hit free agency and really cash in. The club has tried to position itself to contend for the long term, and clearing the cupboard of prospects to get someone for only two years would have betrayed that philosophy.

To get Greinke, Milwaukee parted with young starting shortstop Alcides Escobar, promising center fielder Lorenzo Cain, former first-round Draft pick and right-handed pitcher Jeremy Jeffress and a top pitching prospect in right-hander Jake Odorizzi. To get Marcum, they parted with their top position prospect in second baseman Brett Lawrie.

So far this winter, Cincinnati has made moves only to retain its own players -- re-signing catcher Ramon Hernandez and infielder Miguel Cairo, signing Bruce to a six-year, $51 million contract extension and signing righty Bronson Arroyo to a three-year, $35 million extension.

"We can't sneak in this year. People will be looking for us," Jocketty said during the Winter Meetings. "The way it is right now, we like our club a lot. But we need to improve internally. We should. We have quality young players that should continue to get better. We'll have [Aroldis] Chapman all year [and Edinson] Volquez all year."

The Brewers join the Cardinals in having an elite starting pitcher at the top of the rotation. Actually, St. Louis has a pair in Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright. The Reds are banking that Volquez -- who missed most of the last two seasons recovering from Tommy John surgery -- can return to elite form in 2011. Volquez was a 17-game winner and All-Star in 2008.

A perennial 200-innings contributor, Arroyo was a 17-game winner last season. Young right-hander Johnny Cueto has continued to make improvement in each of his three seasons. The Reds actually have several young and talented contenders for the final two spots in Homer Bailey, Travis Wood, Mike Leake, Sam LeCure, Matt Maloney and if he's not back in the bullpen again, Chapman.

Milwaukee's starting pitching was ranked 15th out of 16 NL clubs with a 4.65 ERA. Throw in holdovers Yovani Gallardo and Randy Wolf, and the Brewers have a formidable starting four to match their imposing lineup. Between Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, Corey Hart, Ricky Weeks and Casey McGehee, they have five players that had at least 20 homers and 80 RBIs last season.

The Reds were ranked No. 1 in the NL in all major offensive categories. Their rotation was ranked 10th with a 4.05 ERA.

When Greinke won the Cy Young Award in 2009 for a lackluster Royals crew, he was 16-8 with a 2.16 ERA. During an even more woeful 2010 in Kansas City, he was 10-14 with a 4.17 ERA.

Guess which results the Reds are hoping Greinke has in 2011?

Mark Sheldon is a reporter for MLB.com. Read his blog, Mark My Word and follow him on Twitter @m_sheldon. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=...Id=rss_cin

Pre-chat post
Posted by jfay 12/21/10, 10:56 am

As noted in the previous post, I’m going to be chatting online at 11:30.

I get the sense that a lot of questions will be out of concern about the lack of moves by the Reds. The Reds have done next to nothing. They’ve added Dontrelle Willis and signed back Ramon Hernandez and Miguel Cairo. My guess is those moves didn’t bump season-ticket sales.

Meanwhile, the Brewers went out and added to very good starters in Zack Greinke and Shaun Marcum. St. Louis added Lance Berkman and Ryan Theriot earlier.

A lot of people would pick the Cards and Brewers ahead of the Reds at this point. But I don’t expect anything big to happen before spring training on the Reds front. As I wrote in the paper the other day, I think if Edgar Renteria can be had a bargain price he makes sense — as a backup at shortstop. But I don’t see anything beyond a move like that.

If I had a dollar for every time Walt Jocketty has told me “I like our team this offseason,” I could buy a snow-blower, which you suddenly need in Cincinnati in December. But I digress.

The other factor with the Reds is budget. The Reds are very close to being at $80 million.

I got an email Sunday from a guy who said he would have traded Johnny Cueto and Yonder Alonso for Greinke. The Reds can’t afford to make deals like that with the payroll where it is. Too little bang for the buck. Consider:

Cueto went 12-7 with a 3.64 ERA and a 1.28 WHIP.

Greinke went 10-14 with a 4.17 ERA and a 1.25 WHIP.

Greinke will make roughly $10 million more than Cueto this coming season. And the Reds would have been giving up Alonso, too. He’ll be no worse than the team’s third- or fourth-rated prospect.

The Brewers gave up a four of their best prospects to get Greinke and Marcum. Doing that takes your minor leauge system down eight or 10 spots in the organizational ratings. I don’t think the Reds are in a position to do that and compete long-term.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/12...chat-post/

Okay, so we won the NL Central last year. Many would argue it was the weakest division in baseball.

And now we stand pat while our fellow NL Centrallers improve.

But Walt likes our team, so everything is okay.

I think Walt is taking the right approach at this point. The truth is he'd have to have been awfully creative and lucky to have made any big splashes given the Reds' budget situation anyway.

Brewers sold 1,100 season ticket packages close to the amount of $7M in 2 days.

What is the budget problem?

Walt has succeeded at letting the other 2 NL Central STRONG contenders steal all the buzz so far.

I was all set to buy 20 two seat packages this season and I decided to hold off when the Greinke deal went down.

I'm sure I'm not the only one.