(12-01-2010 11:38 AM)No Bull Wrote:  ..this tells me Luck is blowing smoke...and my guess is that it has a purpose.

Care to share your guess????

(12-01-2010 11:36 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  Are you talking post-TCU? Because TCU will certainly bring in money.

A 10th school doesn't necessarily bring in more money, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have its benefits such as a 9-game schedule. The 9th game not only helps the schedule but has a financial benefit as well.

TCU was needed, but they don't necessarily bring in more than they "take" either.

The 8th game was the important addition. The 9th makes scheduling easier, but it isn't going to bring in more money than what you would lose by splitting revenues with an additional team.

The only real way a 10th team (and 11th, 12th, etc...) makes sense is if they would significantly raise revenues through TV, add additional bowls, or a chance to take 2 BCS slots in a season. There is really only 1 available team that even gives you 1 of those 3.

(12-01-2010 10:00 AM)bk1714 Wrote:  Consensus among football schools to eventually go to 12. Conf. champ. game future goal.

Conference will give Nova time to make decision but he believes they will decide not to upgrade.

Mentioned Army, Navy, UH, UCF, ECU, and SMU as possibilitiies.

WVU schedule has gotten weak. Not a fan of FCS games, will be difficult to play Marshall on annual basis.

With TCU now on board, the BE needs a Texas travel partner for them, so when a non-revenue team heads to Texas, 2 games can be played while a school is out there - saves $$$ & travel time. My GUESS (today) is Houston. Travel partners & playing the football championship at the home of the team with the best conference record are about the only 2 things CUSA gets right...

(12-01-2010 11:28 AM)Brent St Pierre Wrote:  I am so tired of hearing about market size and televisions. What about product? When the Big 10 expanded they added Nebraska. Not exactly a big market but a great product. When the SEC expanded they added South Carolina and Arkansas; again not a lot of televisions but a great product with a passionate fan base. When the ACC expanded they went for markets and came up with Boston College. Great market . . . bad fit. By mere luck and a great Governor they got Virginia Tech. Terrible market . . . incredible product, year-in and year-out. Had the ACC had its druthers they would have had Syracuse rather than Tech. What would the perception of football in the ACC and Big East be had that happened . . . TCU would still be in the MWC.

Great points. TV Market is overrated.

(12-01-2010 11:52 AM)Brent St Pierre Wrote:  NCstate doesnt want to play or continue their series with ECU either. Their rationale is the same. How miopic and narrow minded. When in state rivals play each other out of conference llike ECU/NCSU and MU/WVU local economies thrive for that weekend. Playing Pembroke and Coastal Carolina do nothing to enhance the football exposure and presence in either WV or NC. Its a waste of time and a missed opportunity for the fans.

Apples to oranges. Coastal Carolina doesn't expect a home game, Marshall does.

(12-01-2010 11:54 AM)Den Wrote:  

(12-01-2010 10:00 AM)bk1714 Wrote:  Consensus among football schools to eventually go to 12. Conf. champ. game future goal.

Conference will give Nova time to make decision but he believes they will decide not to upgrade.

Mentioned Army, Navy, UH, UCF, ECU, and SMU as possibilitiies.

WVU schedule has gotten weak. Not a fan of FCS games, will be difficult to play Marshall on annual basis.

With TCU now on board, the BE needs a Texas travel partner for them, so when a non-revenue team heads to Texas, 2 games can be played while a school is out there - saves $$$ & travel time. My GUESS (today) is Houston. Travel partners & playing the football championship at the home of the team with the best conference record are about the only 2 things CUSA gets right...

If C-USA got that right then who the heck is ECU's "travel partner?" Are you saying it's Marshall?

Heres the audio link. It's the whole morning show. The Luck interview is at the end of the show, starting about 85-90% through the show.

http://www.stationcaster.com/stations/wa...218019.mp3

(12-01-2010 10:18 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  If Army and Navy wanted in I'd have them in a heartbeat and I'd consider expansion a HUGE success no matter who filled out the final spot. I'm absolutely certain that anyone who has ever attended a college football game at either academy would feel the same way. They are special and they have HUGE national followings. I would be THRILLED to be partnered with either one of them. Alas, I don't think Army or Navy is particularly interested in joining the Big East so unless we really do some smooth talking we are likely going to have to choose from some less attractive options (no pun intended).

My pecking order (of realistic choices) would be:
1.) Navy - national following, geographically desireable, great tradition
2.) Army - see Navy
3.) Central Flroida - most potential of anyone being considered
4.) East Carolina - most passionate fan base of anyone being considered
5.) Memphis - no NFL competition and MEM has already proven that it can win in one of the two major sports
6.) Houston - lukewarm on the Cougars but at least Houston is a large market and they have been good in football and hoops in the past
7.) Southern Methodist - even less enthusiastic about the Mustangs because of market dupilcation but it might be cool to have a fierce BE rivalry play out right in the heart of Texas

I do not wish to see Villanova at all and I'm even less enthusiastic about re-partnering with Temple. Philadelphia is just a terrible college football city and it likely always will be, IMHO. It is fool's gold.

Still, how cool would it be if teams 9-12 were Notre Dame, Navy, and Army? It's a pipe dream I know but that would be AWESOME! Do the zipper concept that the Pac-12 briefly flirted with and you'd be set.

It could break down like this or something like this:
Army --- Navy
Syracuse --- Rutgers
Louisville --- Cincinnati
West Virginia --- Pittsburgh
Texas Christian --- South Florida
Connecticut --- Notre Dame

That would be ridiculously sweet. Even if you replaced ND with UCF that would be cool. Even Villanova instead of ND wouldn't make me want to puke if it meant that we had the academies on board. Unfortunately I don't think the interest is mutual as, like Notre Dame, the academies are in the rare position of being able to schedule pretty much whomever they want. Wisely, they like being able to ensure their competitiveness through prudent scheduling and joining a BCS caliber league would severely compromise that advantage.

This is a pipe dream. Think about this. We have 17 BB and 9 FB. If Notre Dame did come, then you have a 17-10. Then Army and Navy could come as FB Only and that would be 17-12 and they could either leave it at that or drop Depaul all together.

(12-01-2010 11:54 AM)Den Wrote:  With TCU now on board, the BE needs a Texas travel partner for them, so when a non-revenue team heads to Texas, 2 games can be played while a school is out there - saves $$$ & travel time. My GUESS (today) is Houston. Travel partners & playing the football championship at the home of the team with the best conference record are about the only 2 things CUSA gets right...

The BE doesn't need a travel partner for TCU. Nor do they need one for USF.

The only sports in the BE that are required to play conference members are the team only sports (Football, Hoops, Baseball/Softball, etc.) Golf, T&F, Cross Country, etc aren't even required to travel to play other conference members until the conference tournament. Lessens the need for travel partners significantly.

(12-01-2010 10:51 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(12-01-2010 10:33 AM)Brent St Pierre Wrote:  The football schools may want 12 teams but on November 2nd the marching orders given were 10. With the addition of TCU that leaves room for (1). I cant see Nova making the move; if they lost $4 million in a year they won their National title I cant see them making the $25 million comitment to moving to the next level. As much as I believe that ECU is the best choice it's inconcievable to me that they wont take UCF. Further down the road I do forsee another round of expansion for the Big East but not now. 10 will be it.

Villanova would be crazy not to accept this offer. It would be a financial windfall. It's not like they're taking on a new expenditure. They already have football & they're already losing money on the program. The only way for them to cut their losses is to upgrade or to drop the sport altogether. The latter is not going to happen, so I see an upgrade as inevitable once they crunch the numbers on their bottom line.

As for a $25 million commitment to move to the next level, it's an investment, not an expense. Return on investment will be enormous. If they can't raise the money, they can borrow it & spread the payments out over 20 years, so that it doesn't impact the budget much all at once.

This is really a no brainer for Villanova with benefits on a variety of different fronts. While it may not be the best thing for Big East Football, I can't imagine Villanova turning this opportunity down. The economics of college sports has changed enormously since 1997 when they turned down the conference's last offer. The addition of TCU only makes the prospects for the conference more solid than they were before. If schools like BC & TCU of similar size/location & with a similar academic mission can make football work, so can Villanova.

I read an article awhile ago that was talking about how Uconn was in the red when they joined the BE loosing about 1.5M a year on football. There frist year in the BE the profited 2M, so the had a 3.5M turnaround just for joining. not sure how acurate it was but figued i should bring it up

Also i think they should change there color to Green rename themselves the eagles nad see what happens might grab some philly fan base yet

(12-01-2010 11:08 AM)LuDawg Wrote:  

(12-01-2010 11:01 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(12-01-2010 10:55 AM)LuDawg Wrote:  That's two credible sources in 2 days. The Big East Official cited in the Star-Ledger yesterday and today the WVU AD.

If UCF turns down a football only, ECU gets the nod. UCF doesn't have nearly the clout to be dictating to the Big East what sports will be included in any invite the way Texas Christian did.

Dude seriously, just stop. If UCF gets an offer it will be for all sports, it has been that way since day one of this round and will remain that way. And if I'm wrong we will politely decline the offer and ECU will get in and life will go on. In the mean time go back to your OTM discipleship and stop constantly jumping into threads and throwing grenades... it's getting tired

I'm not causing any problems. You're just defensive. The Big East decided to expand it's FOOTBALL membership. When they realized that TCU would not accept a football only membership, they bent under pressure and extended an all sports invite to get acceptance. If UCF tried the same tactics, the Big East would simply move on.

I'm not throwing grenades, I'm stating the facts. If you're willing to accept a football only, the spot will probably be yours due to the market your schools is in. Congratulations and life would go on.

You're not stating fact...you're stating wishful thinking. Many believe that the Big East already had UCF in place and UCF was the 1st choice all along, before TCU. UCF was to be an all-sports invite from the beginning. TCU may have been approached TCU with a football only at first that they turned down...after discussion...the BE decided to go ahead with two new all-sports members and let Villanova take their time.

They took TCU early and after their season. UCF may have to wait or some think it might be as early as after the CUSA Champ game. Nobody knows that, for sure.

ECU may have a slim shot if any in 5 years.

(12-01-2010 11:14 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  How does the Big East benefit by going to 12???

10 gets them a 9-game schedule. 12 forces them to commit to 2 more unproven schools with mediocre histories & to close the door on future expansion.

7 years ago TCU was not on the Big East's radar. Time has allowed the cream to rise to the top & the Big East has been able to add a premier program. Stopping at 10 for now will allow the conference to do the same thing - let the various candidates compete to determine who is able to raise the level of their program to become a candidate that the conference simply can't refuse.

I can certainly see why fans of UCF & other candidates are excited about the thought of the conference adding 2 or 3 more new members, but I have no idea why Big East fans would see this as beneficial to the conference at this time. Waiting for the right candidate to identify itself by its success is by far the better way to go IMHO.

This is the exact train of thought that got the Big East into the predicament it's in today! Had the Big East not added St. Louis, Depaul, and Marquette, and instead added ECU, Memphis, maybe UCF...they'd be well positioned TODAY to handle a Big 10 expansion raid.

You've got to start using a little foresight at some point if you want to be a leader.

(12-01-2010 11:58 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  If C-USA got that right then who the heck is ECU's "travel partner?" Are you saying it's Marshall?

Yes, when CUSA West teams come East, they play ECU & Marshall - I've asked UTEP players & coaches & players how they like that - all I get is an eye roll. I've asked players & coaches from Houston, Tulsa, SMU, Rice, et al & they like it just fine - it's a short plane ride...

(12-01-2010 11:28 AM)Brent St Pierre Wrote:  I am so tired of hearing about market size and televisions. What about product? When the Big 10 expanded they added Nebraska. Not exactly a big market but a great product. When the SEC expanded they added South Carolina and Arkansas; again not a lot of televisions but a great product with a passionate fan base. When the ACC expanded they went for markets and came up with Boston College. Great market . . . bad fit. By mere luck and a great Governor they got Virginia Tech. Terrible market . . . incredible product, year-in and year-out. Had the ACC had its druthers they would have had Syracuse rather than Tech. What would the perception of football in the ACC and Big East be had that happened . . . TCU would still be in the MWC.

Agreed. I honestly don't know why people think that Pitt county is the ECU market. The product of ECU football is producing just short of 50,000 fans a game. The Greenville market is 70,000 people. It doesn't shut down on saturdays. Somehow they don't take into consideration that Raleigh is 1 hour away from Greenville. They don't understand that people here in Raleigh, Durham, Charlotte, Winston Salem, Greensboro, Wilmington, Fayetteville, Richmond, Myrtle Beach, Norfolk and D.C send tons of fans to ECU games. In Orlando, a city of 2 million people you will find a good UCF football program that cannot sell out its 43,000 seat stadium. As a marketing professional that means that Orlando has not bought into the UCF product. How could a 6-6 ECU team with the worst defense in the nation bring almost 50,000 fans to Rowdy Dowdy a game and a 9-3 CUSA East Champion cannot sell out its stadium in a city of 2 million people?

Nothing against UCF at all. I am analyzing this because this is what I do for a living. I help to brand and market products. Adding a product in hopes that it will have great potential is a dangerous thing. "Adding" is different from "building". The "potential" could be a great thing if you can brand UCF to add this "potential" in the Orlando market. Conversely, it can be disasterous and end up being a terrible burden. When you build something you are making it specifically for the demand in the market. It is tailor made for it. When you add something, you are hoping that people will buy into it.

So which product do you think is more established and has the best brand recognition? ECU, UCF, Memphis, Houston?

My opinion is ECU.

(12-01-2010 12:16 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  You're not stating fact...you're stating wishful thinking. Many believe that the Big East already had UCF in place and UCF was the 1st choice all along, before TCU. UCF was to be an all-sports invite from the beginning. TCU may have been approached TCU with a football only at first that they turned down...after discussion...the BE decided to go ahead with two new all-sports members and let Villanova take their time.

PROVE IT. "Many believe"...so what? Based on what? Media speculation or from what Big East administrators and officers have said point-blank? Show me where UCF is in place as the 1st choice for an all-sports invite. Where is this proof you're talking about that's "fact"? PROVE IT. UCF fans are so delusional they're starting to believe their own made up lies.

The fact is, the Big East agreed to expand it's FOOTBALL membership by 2. That is the fact you're looking for. TCU was extended a football only, which it shot down in the media. A few weeks later, they accepted a full invitation. They had the leverage for doing so. UCF isn't even in the same universe as TCU from that perspective.

If UCF gets offered anything, it will likely be football only which is what the Big East presidents agreed to expand. It will be up to your president to take it or leave it.

Goldenbuc,

Don't read too much into those tea leaves the media is cooking. They are the same media outlets that had UCF and Memphis "in" the BE back in the summer. Yep, the same one's that caused the BE office to issue a statement to deny those statments. BE front office didn't like having to do that.

(12-01-2010 10:49 AM)Brent St Pierre Wrote:  Virginia Tech AD Jim Weaver was on the radio three weeks ago commenting on a conversation he had with Oliver Luck earlier in the day. When pressed Weaver aknowledged that WVU was VERY concerned with the long term future of Big East football and the possibility of another raid by another conference. He didnt go into any specifics but I found it very interesting that Weaver would say that on his radio show. I cant imagine Luck was overly thrilled with Weaver over this.

It does not take a rocket scientist to know that Oliver Luck would and should be very concerned. If he was not, then I would be.

(12-01-2010 11:02 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  How could any right-minded BE fan or administrator not be concerned about the possibility/probabilty of a future raid or raids? We are weak and disjointed and we are located in an area of the country with the most population. That has guys like Delany seeing dollar signs when they go to bed at night. And you can bet your sweet arse that if the B10 - or another league - ever figures out how to get all of those eyeballs to buy their product the BE is going to be smashed to smithereens.

I would be VERY concerned if I was school like WVU as this whole thing seems to be market driven and that state is basically marketless. They could be to the ACC, SEC, or B10 what ECU appears to be to the BE during this process: a fan base that is recognized as being passionate and large but w/o a defined market to sell in this market crazy climate.

For those same reasons I would be very confident if I was Rutgers and Connecticut and to a lesser degree Pittsburgh.

Could not have said it better myself. WVU could very possibly be in a worse spot than Memphis when looking from the outside in. And Memphis is in a bad spot.

(12-01-2010 10:49 AM)Brent St Pierre Wrote:  Virginia Tech AD Jim Weaver was on the radio three weeks ago commenting on a conversation he had with Oliver Luck earlier in the day. When pressed Weaver aknowledged that WVU was VERY concerned with the long term future of Big East football and the possibility of another raid by another conference. He didnt go into any specifics but I found it very interesting that Weaver would say that on his radio show. I cant imagine Luck was overly thrilled with Weaver over this.

Is this the same Brent St. Pierre who did a paper on Huey Long back in the late 80s or early 90s?

(12-01-2010 12:19 PM)LuDawg Wrote:  

(12-01-2010 11:14 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  How does the Big East benefit by going to 12???

10 gets them a 9-game schedule. 12 forces them to commit to 2 more unproven schools with mediocre histories & to close the door on future expansion.

7 years ago TCU was not on the Big East's radar. Time has allowed the cream to rise to the top & the Big East has been able to add a premier program. Stopping at 10 for now will allow the conference to do the same thing - let the various candidates compete to determine who is able to raise the level of their program to become a candidate that the conference simply can't refuse.

I can certainly see why fans of UCF & other candidates are excited about the thought of the conference adding 2 or 3 more new members, but I have no idea why Big East fans would see this as beneficial to the conference at this time. Waiting for the right candidate to identify itself by its success is by far the better way to go IMHO.

This is the exact train of thought that got the Big East into the predicament it's in today! Had the Big East not added St. Louis, Depaul, and Marquette, and instead added ECU, Memphis, maybe UCF...they'd be well positioned TODAY to handle a Big 10 expansion raid.

You've got to start using a little foresight at some point if you want to be a leader.

The BE did not add St Louis and St Luois is not a BE team.