TCU, University of Cincinnati reunite in Big East
Addition of Horned Frogs elevates conference's football credentials

By Bill Koch • bkoch@enquirer.com • November 29, 2010


The Associated Press/Jake Schoellkopf
The third-ranked Horned Frogs (12-0) wrapped up their second consecutive undefeated regular season and Mountain West title with a 66-17 victory at New Mexico on Saturday.

CINCINNATI -- The addition of TCU to the Big East Conference puts more pressure on the University of Cincinnati from a financial aspect.

The Bearcats and the Horned Frogs were fellow members of Conference USA from 2001-05 until UC left for the Big East. At the same time, TCU left for the Mountain West.

Now the two schools will be reunited as part of a 17-team Big East for all sports and a nine-team football conference.

“I think we needed to look at bringing in a program that added value, stability and security,” said UC athletic director Mike Thomas. “That’s what TCU brings to the conference.”

The announcement, widely speculated for months, was made Monday at a press conference in Fort Worth, Texas, by Big East commissioner John Marinatto.

The Horned Frogs spent $20.6 million on football in 2009-10, according to figures from the U.S. Department of Education’s Equity in Athletics, more than any Big East school. Rutgers led the Big East with $19.5 million.

UC ranked last in the league in football spending at $11.6 million.

“Obviously, the Big East just got extremely more competitive,” said UC coach Butch Jones. “It’s great for the conference. I just think we have to continue to work on everything that we’re doing in our football program.”

Trying to compete with fewer resources is nothing new for UC, Thomas said.

“We’re not foreign to that,” Thomas said. “We have experienced great success in recent years in football competing with less and I would assume as we continue to build our program and advance our resources, at some point we’ll look more like them in the future.

“We really can’t control that part of it. We can only do what we do for ourselves. It’s great that they have those resources. It’s a tribute to where they are today.”

The expansion of the Big East comes in response to the realignment of conferences across the country in an attempt to make the league stronger and less susceptible to being raided by other leagues.

The Big Ten, which added Nebraska this year, was rumored to be interested in Pitt, Rutgers and Syracuse from the Big East.

“Our focus was to add a quality institution to our football membership,” Marinatto said. “Clearly, the tremendously successful TCU football team adds enormous strength to the Big East roster. Our league will now be playing football in the Northeast, Midwest, Florida and Texas. No other conference can claim such representation.”

While Marinatto presented the far-flung geographical nature of the Big East as a positive attribute, others question the practicality of adding a school so far from the east coast because of the expense involved in travel for sports besides football and men’s basketball.

“I fully realize that some people will question the geography,” Marinatto said. “Paul Tagliabue, the former commissioner of the NFL and one of our consultants put it best when he said at a recent meeting the Dallas Cowboys play in the NFC East. TCU and their fans will be right at home in the Big East. I couldn’t agree more.”

The Dallas-Fort Worth area is the nation’s fifth-largest television market.

The Big East also has extended an invitation to current Big East member Villanova to join the league for football if it decides to move up from the NCAA’s FCS division to the larger FBS division. That would give the league 10 football schools.

The Horned Frogs completed their second straight unbeaten regular season in football and are ranked No. 3 in the BCS standings, with a chance to play in the national championship game if No. 1 Auburn or No. 2 Oregon loses this weekend.

If that were to happen, the Big East would be the home two years down the road of a school that had competed in the BCS title game, which might quell some of the national criticism the league has endured during an off year in which no Big East teams are ranked in the Top 25. The Big East is locked into its BCS spot through 2013.

TCU benefits by joining a conference with an automatic BCS bowl berth and a league that can provide the rest of TCU’s sports – particularly men’s basketball – with a higher national profile.

With the addition of TCU, six of the 17 Big East schools will be former members of Conference USA. Those six include UC, Louisville, South Florida, DePaul, Marquette and TCU.

The Bearcats are 5-0 all-time vs. TCU in basketball, 2-1 in football.

The TCU men’s basketball team figures to struggle at the outset in the rugged Big East. The Horned Frogs were 13-19 last year.

“Everybody’s going to have to pick up their game,” said TCU athletic director Chris Del Conte said. “If you’re afraid of competition, this is not the place to be.”

UC basketball coach Mick Cronin wondered what the addition of a 17th school would do to scheduling in the Big East, where each school currently plays 12 others once a year and three schools on a home-and-home basis.

“You’re probably going end up playing 15 teams once and two teams twice,” he said. “Other than that, it could open up Texas for recruiting. I try to look at the positive.”

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101...sure-on-UC

I'm wondering how long UC can remain relevant in the Big East being at the bottom or near the bottom in athletic spending among the football schools.

If we can lock down a fair share of good recruits in the radius BK stated the program will be more than ok.

(11-30-2010 10:34 AM)chatcat Wrote:  I'm wondering how long UC can remain relevant in the Big East being at the bottom or near the bottom in athletic spending among the football schools.

Don't see any reason UC can't remain relevant. Keep moving forward with recruiting/growing the fanbase. If we have donors/fans willing to step up - the dollars will not be an issue. With a smaller stadium its only a metter of time before ticket prices increase, which should create more revenue.

(11-30-2010 11:06 AM)Crewdogz Wrote:  If we can lock down a fair share of good recruits in the radius BK stated the program will be more than ok.

You mean the ones that are going to OSU, Notre Dame, Louisville, and Wisconsin?

Yes HU, we need to shut that down.

UC just needs a couple more 4-8 or 5-7 seasons and the athletic department coffers will be filled. This 2010 bowl season will be the most profitable for UC in their history.

$800,000 in unused bowl credits.
League share of the one BCS bowl.
League share of the remaining Big East tie-in bowls.

Zero expenses for travel to any bowl game.
Zero expenses for extra weeks of practices.
Zero expenses for forced purchase of ticket allotments.

From a pure profit perspective in the short run, CBJ did a great job. And everyone thought I was so negative about our new coach. Represent the 'C' must have meant 'C'ash.

Bridge is due south Rag

(11-30-2010 02:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  UC just needs a couple more 4-8 or 5-7 seasons and the athletic department coffers will be filled. This 2010 bowl season will be the most profitable for UC in their history.

$800,000 in unused bowl credits.
League share of the one BCS bowl.
League share of the remaining Big East tie-in bowls.

Zero expenses for travel to any bowl game.
Zero expenses for extra weeks of practices.
Zero expenses for forced purchase of ticket allotments.

From a pure profit perspective in the short run, CBJ did a great job. And everyone thought I was so negative about our new coach. Represent the 'C' must have meant 'C'ash.

I guess that's something positive for the debt in the athletic department. Would you mind explaining the 'unused bowl credits'? What are those?

(11-30-2010 03:02 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(11-30-2010 02:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  UC just needs a couple more 4-8 or 5-7 seasons and the athletic department coffers will be filled. This 2010 bowl season will be the most profitable for UC in their history.

$800,000 in unused bowl credits.
League share of the one BCS bowl.
League share of the remaining Big East tie-in bowls.

Zero expenses for travel to any bowl game.
Zero expenses for extra weeks of practices.
Zero expenses for forced purchase of ticket allotments.

From a pure profit perspective in the short run, CBJ did a great job. And everyone thought I was so negative about our new coach. Represent the 'C' must have meant 'C'ash.

I guess that's something positive for the debt in the athletic department. Would you mind explaining the 'unused bowl credits'? What are those?

$50 of the cost of a season ticket is credited back if UC makes a bowl game. So if a Bowl Game ticket is $100 your cost from UC's ticket office is $50 (as opposed to a $100).

Back to the title of the article about "pressure". Win enough and there isn't much pressure. Continue to post
4 or 5 win season lots of pressure.

(11-30-2010 02:44 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Bridge is due south Rag

Will you be on the bandwagon with me?

It is funny, or maybe sad, that UC makes more money by not being in a bowl game. That's the fact no matter who's the coach. Collegiate athletics are so screwed up.

(11-30-2010 06:08 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(11-30-2010 02:44 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Bridge is due south Rag

Will you be on the bandwagon with me?

Sounds good. Notice my pick this week - against the 'Stache, no less

(11-30-2010 06:08 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  It is funny, or maybe sad, that UC makes more money by not being in a bowl game. That's the fact no matter who's the coach. Collegiate athletics are so screwed up.

Rag, I dispute that claim anyway. Remember, the Big East distributes its bowl money unevenly. So, finishing first, our gross share was more than anyone else. I have a hard time believing under that circumstance we'd lose more finishing first than last, despite the travel.

(11-30-2010 06:29 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(11-30-2010 06:08 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(11-30-2010 02:44 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Bridge is due south Rag

Will you be on the bandwagon with me?

Sounds good. Notice my pick this week - against the 'Stache, no less

(11-30-2010 06:08 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  It is funny, or maybe sad, that UC makes more money by not being in a bowl game. That's the fact no matter who's the coach. Collegiate athletics are so screwed up.

Rag, I dispute that claim anyway. Remember, the Big East distributes its bowl money unevenly. So, finishing first, our gross share was more than anyone else. I have a hard time believing under that circumstance we'd lose more finishing first than last, despite the travel.

Oh mighty OZ from Kansas simple accounting prevails. All income no expenses. The Big East does have a tiered system in bowl payouts, but UC's share should be over $1.5M where as UConn will get something around $3.0M. But UConn has to go to the Fiesta Bowl and cover 17,500 in tickets. Here is an article from the Pittsburgh Tribune on WVU's last trip to Arizona:

Sharp said that the Big East's payout to West Virginia for its trip to the 2008 Fiesta Bowl was $2,425,600, but the school's expenses totaled $3,495,000 - for losses of $1,069,400. Taking the 400-member band alone cost West Virginia nearly $700,000, and the school had to swallow some of its 17,500 ticket obligation. "We lost money on that trip," Sharp said. "It was an expensive deal."

The only way to make money is to be an independent like ND, or in a conference where the majority of schools go to high payout bowls, like B10 or SEC.

Why does everybody assume that UConn is going to win on Saturday?

Koch is so negative. How about an article about how we just
got an #3 team in the country into our league? About how we
just got an enormous market with a very free-spending alumni?
Getting teams like these into our league lead to more fans for
us and for our alumni to want to give more.

(11-30-2010 08:34 PM)maxthecat Wrote:  Koch is so negative. How about an article about how we just
got an #3 team in the country into our league? About how we
just got an enormous market with a very free-spending alumni?
Getting teams like these into our league lead to more fans for
us and for our alumni to want to give more.

He did talk about TCU joining the league, but the only thing he could focus on was how they don't contribute much to the BBall side. Just a joke of a 'journalist'...

The Dallas-Fort Worth area is one of the richest in America, with plenty of oil and gas money, financial services money, agribusiness money, etc. They have many major donors. UC has only 117 members of its 1200 Club. $1200 is a nice contribution, but our major football donor program raises a meager $143,000. That doesn't pay the salary and benefits of one veteran assistant football coach.

(11-30-2010 08:25 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Why does everybody assume that UConn is going to win on Saturday?

Actually I don't. USF beats UConn, Rutgers does not show up, and WVU is losing money again in Phoenix.