I'm just curious who on this board thinks any of those team would agree to football only membership in the Big East. I don't think any of them would.

I voted yes. But your list is flawed because it includes Memphis. Memphis football is worse than dog$hit currently and historically.

I think all of them would

TCU would, Memphis would, and UCF when push came to shove likely would as well. I think the decision is hardest for UCF of the 3. UCF has no good options where to park the rest of its sports. But BCS auto bid is tough to pass up on.

If UCF can put all sports in the Big East except Basketball we may consider it - if we are brought in when the new TV deal is established. Granted that the Big East football school agree to play us one home/one away. That way we would have 16 basketball games against Big East competition, but not technically have our basketball team be in the conference until the new TV deal. I think that would be the winning deal!

(11-07-2010 01:49 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  TCU would, Memphis would, and UCF when push came to shove likely would as well.

If that were true, why didn't the Big East expand to 12 back in 2004 (Temple obviously would). I'd heard back in 2003, that UCF, ECU and Memphis all turned the Big East down for football only membership. I don't see how anything has changed or that football only membership would be an improvement over TCU's current situation.

That is why the talk of terms and conditions, BE and others have room to work out deals good for both. Bottom line is deal only has to be worked out with TCU.

Memphis accepting a football only invite is so ludicrous a suggestion as to make this entire thread ignorant and irrelevant. What makes anyone think The BEast would want Memphis for football?

If Memphis basketball doesn't help the Tigers get into The BEast, what makes anyone think their football will? That's just stupid...

(11-07-2010 02:07 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  That is why the talk of terms and conditions, BE and others have room to work out deals good for both. Bottom line is deal only has to be worked out with TCU.

Bingo. TCU football only for 2012. UCF/Houston/Villanova football/TCU all sports added for 12/20 in 2014. I know, I know they'll have to add a basketball only to get to 20. I say Xavier - go for the best team and forget about markets or what UC may think. Then - let the arguments commence on basketball divisions/scheduling.

Go to 12/20 and the Big East really will be, as Rick Pitino, says - a corporation.

I think they would, as long as full membership was guaranteed down the road (2014/2015?)

I would not be surprised if, for a few years, we'll see TCU basketball in the WAC, and UCF basketball in the Sun Belt (remember that the Sun Belt will be at 11 basketball members when Denver leaves...UCF would be a great temporary fit).

2014 won't come for mankind. Did you miss the memo. 12/21/2012.

They'd all take it, no strings attached, if the BE takes a very hard line and says, "Here's your football-only invitation. You have 24 hours to accept or decline. This is the only offer you will receive. If you say no, then we will invite Temple and ECU as football-only members and then we will be all done with expansion."

I'm not saying the Big East should do it that way, but if the BE wants to make football-only stick, the conference has the leverage to do it.

No way TCU accepts a football only invite and even all sports would not be a guarantee. What exactly makes you think that joining the big east for football only would be of any interest. TCU is going to BCS games without being in an AQ conference. MWC may very well earn it on its own.

On the other hand big east does have great basketball and getting access to that might make the difference.

All.

(11-07-2010 02:42 PM)StinnettFrog Wrote:  No way TCU accepts a football only invite and even all sports would not be a guarantee. What exactly makes you think that joining the big east for football only would be of any interest. TCU is going to BCS games without being in an AQ conference. MWC may very well earn it on its own.

On the other hand big east does have great basketball and getting access to that might make the difference.

Because mWAC's bowls suck. Because the MTN sucks. Because mWAC tv money won't amount to a hill of beans with UU and BYU gone. As Kansas Jayhawks found out, football drives the bus....that's why the BE is expanding.

Wyoming instead of Syracuse? NM instead of Pitt? CSU instead of Rutgers? Good grief! TCU basketball is not worth a corn cob, so why worry about it?

(11-07-2010 02:42 PM)StinnettFrog Wrote:  No way TCU accepts a football only invite and even all sports would not be a guarantee. What exactly makes you think that joining the big east for football only would be of any interest. TCU is going to BCS games without being in an AQ conference. MWC may very well earn it on its own.

On the other hand big east does have great basketball and getting access to that might make the difference.

It would be of interest to TCU because you administration contacted us, not vice versa. And I'm sure the Big East showed them the projected Big East Network. And I posted in another thread but apparently I need to post it in this thread, this is what a former BCS rep and TV consultant thinks of the MWC's chance of getting a bid:

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/64647

It’s really a question of value, says WAC Commissioner Karl Benson. When a Utah shocks an Alabama or a Boise State stuns an Oklahoma, doesn’t that demonstrate the value of those teams and conferences to the BCS? Shouldn’t the payout to the conferences like the WAC and the Mountain West that send teams to the BCS look like the payout to the big six conferences?

No, responds Harvey Perlman, chancellor at the University of Nebraska and chairman of the BCS Presidential Oversight Committee. He says there’s a difference between playing well in a game and demonstrating the kind of value that drives long-term media contracts.

“Those teams have certainly performed well, but you’re talking about adding value,” Perlman said. “The real question is whether including those conferences when you negotiate a TV contract adds to the willingness of the network to increase the bid. I don’t think we’ve seen evidence that that’s true.”

And this:

“When you talk about adding value, from a media standpoint, the Boise States and the Utahs add very little,” said Barry Frank, a media consultant from IMG who worked with the BCS on its new TV deal with ESPN. “They’re not population centers. And speaking from a personal standpoint, in football terms, I can tell you that networks look at them as ‘Johnny-come-latelies’ to the national scene that don’t play the kind of schedules that major conferences play.”

And this:

The BCS has not fully divulged what thresholds must be met for the MWC to gain an automatic qualifying berth, which makes the whole process sound eerily like joining a fraternity. But if the MWC could join the big six club, membership would have its privileges and its annual BCS revenue would likely double.

“We look at consistency over time,” Nebraska’s Perlman said. “Looking forward, I don’t know that they change the equation, but certainly their performance over time makes it difficult to not look at them.”

And that was with Utah and BYU in the conference. Oh, and for the people who think that going to a BCS bowl game is going to pay the bills, especially considering that a non-BCS school isn't going every year:

The Mountain West will receive $9.8 million, while the WAC takes $7.8 million and the rest goes to Conference USA ($2.8 million), the MAC ($2.1 million) and the Sun Belt ($1.5 million). TCU is a member of the Mountain West, while Boise State is in the WAC.

I believe that TCU and Boise State probably made about 3 million last year from the BCS maybe slightly more. That's less then the lowest paid BCS school.

(11-07-2010 02:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Memphis accepting a football only invite is so ludicrous a suggestion as to make this entire thread ignorant and irrelevant. What makes anyone think The BEast would want Memphis for football?

If Memphis basketball doesn't help the Tigers get into The BEast, what makes anyone think their football will? That's just stupid...

Ok, swap out Memphis for ECU. The point doesn't change. Why would any of those schools abandoned their non-football sports for some minor league just to get a few million more in football ? I don't see it happening. In the end, the Big East will do what it has always done. Nothing until some other conference forces them too.

(11-07-2010 02:06 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(11-07-2010 01:49 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  TCU would, Memphis would, and UCF when push came to shove likely would as well.

If that were true, why didn't the Big East expand to 12 back in 2004 (Temple obviously would). I'd heard back in 2003, that UCF, ECU and Memphis all turned the Big East down for football only membership. I don't see how anything has changed or that football only membership would be an improvement over TCU's current situation.

Never happened. ECU and Memphis have never been invited for membership.

(11-07-2010 03:05 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(11-07-2010 02:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Memphis accepting a football only invite is so ludicrous a suggestion as to make this entire thread ignorant and irrelevant. What makes anyone think The BEast would want Memphis for football?

If Memphis basketball doesn't help the Tigers get into The BEast, what makes anyone think their football will? That's just stupid...

Ok, swap out Memphis for ECU. The point doesn't change. Why would any of those schools abandoned their non-football sports for some minor league just to get a few million more in football ? I don't see it happening. In the end, the Big East will do what it has always done. Nothing until some other conference forces them too.

Not to mention adding ECU and Memphis isn't going to deliver the existing teams "a few million more in football".

(11-07-2010 02:51 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(11-07-2010 02:42 PM)StinnettFrog Wrote:  No way TCU accepts a football only invite and even all sports would not be a guarantee. What exactly makes you think that joining the big east for football only would be of any interest. TCU is going to BCS games without being in an AQ conference. MWC may very well earn it on its own.

On the other hand big east does have great basketball and getting access to that might make the difference.

It would be of interest to TCU because you administration contacted us, not vice versa. And I'm sure the Big East showed them the projected Big East Network. And I posted in another thread but apparently I need to post it in this thread, this is what a former BCS rep and TV consultant thinks of the MWC's chance of getting a bid:

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/64647

It’s really a question of value, says WAC Commissioner Karl Benson. When a Utah shocks an Alabama or a Boise State stuns an Oklahoma, doesn’t that demonstrate the value of those teams and conferences to the BCS? Shouldn’t the payout to the conferences like the WAC and the Mountain West that send teams to the BCS look like the payout to the big six conferences?

No, responds Harvey Perlman, chancellor at the University of Nebraska and chairman of the BCS Presidential Oversight Committee. He says there’s a difference between playing well in a game and demonstrating the kind of value that drives long-term media contracts.

“Those teams have certainly performed well, but you’re talking about adding value,” Perlman said. “The real question is whether including those conferences when you negotiate a TV contract adds to the willingness of the network to increase the bid. I don’t think we’ve seen evidence that that’s true.”

And this:

“When you talk about adding value, from a media standpoint, the Boise States and the Utahs add very little,” said Barry Frank, a media consultant from IMG who worked with the BCS on its new TV deal with ESPN. “They’re not population centers. And speaking from a personal standpoint, in football terms, I can tell you that networks look at them as ‘Johnny-come-latelies’ to the national scene that don’t play the kind of schedules that major conferences play.”

And this:

The BCS has not fully divulged what thresholds must be met for the MWC to gain an automatic qualifying berth, which makes the whole process sound eerily like joining a fraternity. But if the MWC could join the big six club, membership would have its privileges and its annual BCS revenue would likely double.

“We look at consistency over time,” Nebraska’s Perlman said. “Looking forward, I don’t know that they change the equation, but certainly their performance over time makes it difficult to not look at them.”

And that was with Utah and BYU in the conference. Oh, and for the people who think that going to a BCS bowl game is going to pay the bills, especially considering that a non-BCS school isn't going every year:

The Mountain West will receive $9.8 million, while the WAC takes $7.8 million and the rest goes to Conference USA ($2.8 million), the MAC ($2.1 million) and the Sun Belt ($1.5 million). TCU is a member of the Mountain West, while Boise State is in the WAC.

I believe that TCU and Boise State probably made about 3 million last year from the BCS maybe slightly more. That's less then the lowest paid BCS school.

Great article and find CatsClaw. These statements clearly illustrate what I and others have been attempting to get across about teams and the tv value they can bring to a conference such as the Big East. This is the way tv executives look at things and is why certain teams cannot be added to the league.