(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  No offence, but the Big East has two programs that are comparable to NCSU, Cal, Illinois, Ok St, etc. I would say WVU and Pitt both fall into that category.

Louisville, Syracuse, and Cincy are all solid programs, but I would say a tier behind those fanbases.

Since you used NCSU as an example and I know them well. If NCSU were in the Big East it would have instantly the largest fanbase, best facilities (maybe Pitt but pro stadiums meh/ Louisville), etc.

NCSU's hoops tradition would be 2nd to none. I would argue over the last 20-30 years it would have the 2nd best football program behind only WVU. Clearly if you wanna go back further than that Syracuse and Pitt trump them.

Just saying USF, UCONN overall, Rutgers, Cincy, Syracuse and even Louisville (although fairly close) do not measure up.

On the basketball side all I'll say is that I guarantee you every all-time hoops program list will have UofL ahead of NC State, as they should be. As for overall support, UofL blows them out of the water in basketball attendance and with the recent expansion, the Wolfpack's football attendance is minimally ahead of UofL. Average that out as you want. I can say that total football/basketball attendance this season will have UofL well ahead.

As for facilities, I can't speak to NC State, but knowing UofL very well I seriously doubt there is much difference, and I wouldn't be surprised if the difference is NC State trailing UofL.

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  NCSU's hoops tradition would be 2nd to none. I would argue over the last 20-30 years it would have the 2nd best football program behind only WVU. Clearly if you wanna go back further than that Syracuse and Pitt trump them.

More of State's tradition has been in the rear view mirror: one Sweet 16 since Valvano left, last ACC basketball title in 1987.

In football, coach Sheridan is the only head coach with a winning record going back to the 1980's and the Pack has just one top 25 finish since 1994, though this could be the second.

(11-06-2010 11:23 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  I actually feel great about the future. Instead of sitting on 8 teams or just adding Villanova we're actually expanding with quality teams, working on the Big East Network and working on improving the TV contract.

We hope...

They still have a chance to screw this up. Hopefully TCU's ranking, recent pounding of Utah, possible NC shot, and the constant media coverage will be enough to put them in the "can't miss" category for all voting members of the Big East.

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  I'm highly skeptical about the results provided by the non-contracted firm that put together this study saying we can expect fb/$15 mil bb/$6-8 mil. The money will unquestionably increase, but realistically, can we really expect to be on par with the other AQ conferences? I don't think so.

My reasoning is sound. The SEC doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Ole Miss. The ACC doesn't earn their $100+ million because of NC State. The B10 doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Illinois. The B12 doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Oklahoma St. The Pac 10 won't earn their $100+ million because of Cal. Every other AQ conference has at least one strong national anchor school that provides a highly disproportionate share of their tv money.

Our conference is essentially a collection of programs such as Ole Miss, NC State, Illinois, OK St, and Cal. We simply don't have that bellcow we can hitch onto and lead us into the future. You know what - I'm perfectly fine with that. I think there is something to be said for being in a place where a good 2 or 3 year run can lead to a BCS bowl or two.

So, to answer the OP's questions - no, I'm not particularly depressed about the future of BE FB. And, no, I doubt there is much we can do to stop a member school from accepting a bid from another AQ conference. If this expansion process plays out properly, the BE should be able to strengthen its position in the grand scheme of things. We may not be immune to being raided, but we'll be in much better position to stand tall after such a raid.

No offence, but the Big East has two programs that are comparable to NCSU, Cal, Illinois, Ok St, etc. I would say WVU and Pitt both fall into that category.

Louisville, Syracuse, and Cincy are all solid programs, but I would say a tier behind those fanbases.

Since you used NCSU as an example and I know them well. If NCSU were in the Big East it would have instantly the largest fanbase, best facilities (maybe Pitt but pro stadiums meh/ Louisville), etc.

NCSU's hoops tradition would be 2nd to none. I would argue over the last 20-30 years it would have the 2nd best football program behind only WVU. Clearly if you wanna go back further than that Syracuse and Pitt trump them.

Just saying USF, UCONN overall, Rutgers, Cincy, Syracuse and even Louisville (although fairly close) do not measure up.

WVU, Pitt and Syracuse are all better programs than NC State historically and all three are top twenty in all time wins.

It is an absolute joke to pretend NCState would instantly have the largest fanbase-they wouldn't even have the largest stadium. WVU would be far and away a larger fanbase. Pitt, USF, UConn, UL and WVU all have facilities on par or better than NC State football and basketball wise and that is probably leaving one or two out.

NCSU's hoops second to none huh? Yeah right. WVU, Pitt, UL, SU and UConn just from the football side might disprove that joke of a statement many times over. Their football program hasn't done anything over the years.

Don't let reality get in the way of trying to make things up though.

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  Our conference is essentially a collection of programs such as Ole Miss, NC State, Illinois, OK St, and Cal. We simply don't have that bellcow we can hitch onto and lead us into the future.

I agree with this completely. You're dead right... we don't have any "national" brands in football like Alabama or USC. But on the other hand, we don't have any "dead weight" schools like Vandy, Duke, or IU either.

To answer the OP's question, yes, I fear the current round of expansion. I fear that other than TCU, we're considering adding schools that will quickly become the IU of the Big East and will become a significant drag on the conference.

Unlike IU, Duke, or Vandy, the UCF's and ECU's of the world don't add top notch basketball or academics, so if all that they offer is a football program that *might* at best be an average Big East program, then it's a gamble with little upside. I feel like we're just picking names out of a hat to get to some pre-approved magic number.

(11-06-2010 09:37 PM)miko33 Wrote:  RE: Are some of you depressed when you think of the future of the BE FB conference?

Yes.....the BE wasn't that far behind the other conferences in revenue but the BTN has meant that the BE will NEVER be close to the other BCS conferences going forward in terms of exposure or revenue.

(11-08-2010 11:02 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  I'm highly skeptical about the results provided by the non-contracted firm that put together this study saying we can expect fb/$15 mil bb/$6-8 mil. The money will unquestionably increase, but realistically, can we really expect to be on par with the other AQ conferences? I don't think so.

My reasoning is sound. The SEC doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Ole Miss. The ACC doesn't earn their $100+ million because of NC State. The B10 doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Illinois. The B12 doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Oklahoma St. The Pac 10 won't earn their $100+ million because of Cal. Every other AQ conference has at least one strong national anchor school that provides a highly disproportionate share of their tv money.

Our conference is essentially a collection of programs such as Ole Miss, NC State, Illinois, OK St, and Cal. We simply don't have that bellcow we can hitch onto and lead us into the future. You know what - I'm perfectly fine with that. I think there is something to be said for being in a place where a good 2 or 3 year run can lead to a BCS bowl or two.

So, to answer the OP's questions - no, I'm not particularly depressed about the future of BE FB. And, no, I doubt there is much we can do to stop a member school from accepting a bid from another AQ conference. If this expansion process plays out properly, the BE should be able to strengthen its position in the grand scheme of things. We may not be immune to being raided, but we'll be in much better position to stand tall after such a raid.

No offence, but the Big East has two programs that are comparable to NCSU, Cal, Illinois, Ok St, etc. I would say WVU and Pitt both fall into that category.

Louisville, Syracuse, and Cincy are all solid programs, but I would say a tier behind those fanbases.

Since you used NCSU as an example and I know them well. If NCSU were in the Big East it would have instantly the largest fanbase, best facilities (maybe Pitt but pro stadiums meh/ Louisville), etc.

NCSU's hoops tradition would be 2nd to none. I would argue over the last 20-30 years it would have the 2nd best football program behind only WVU. Clearly if you wanna go back further than that Syracuse and Pitt trump them.

Just saying USF, UCONN overall, Rutgers, Cincy, Syracuse and even Louisville (although fairly close) do not measure up.

WVU, Pitt and Syracuse are all better programs than NC State historically and all three are top twenty in all time wins.

It is an absolute joke to pretend NCState would instantly have the largest fanbase-they wouldn't even have the largest stadium. WVU would be far and away a larger fanbase. Pitt, USF, UConn, UL and WVU all have facilities on par or better than NC State football and basketball wise and that is probably leaving one or two out.

NCSU's hoops second to none huh? Yeah right. WVU, Pitt, UL, SU and UConn just from the football side might disprove that joke of a statement many times over. Their football program hasn't done anything over the years.

Don't let reality get in the way of trying to make things up though.

There is no bigger hate of NCSU than I. That said they draw better for hoops than WVU does and hell they even draw pretty well for Women's hoops.

Louisville's hoops program has been better since the mid 80s. But NCSU would've made many more NCAA tourneys in the 90s for instance had it played in C-USA or the Metro. You're starting to see that now with some teams in the Big East not making it because the hoops league is so strong.

NCSU and Louisville are virtual='s in hoops historically.

NCSU could draw 70-80k to certain football games if they had the capacity. I standby my largest fanbase comment. Without looking at the numbers there is no doubt in my mind they draw more fans to games than any other Big East team. (Syracuse drawing 30+ for certain hoops games is the only thing that makes me half way hesitant).

Most recent attendance numbers
2010 men's hoops #24 13,184 (in a non NCAA tournament year, hell no NIT year)
2009 football #34 a little over 54k in a losing season (only WVU ranks ahead and my guess is NCSU is higher this season as they have had nothing but sellouts)

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  Since you used NCSU as an example and I know them well. If NCSU were in the Big East it would have instantly the largest fanbase,

Facts:

Louisville basketball attendance (2009-2010): 19,397 (3rd nationally)
Louisville football attendance (2010): 51,776 (42nd)
National sales rank (CLC): 30th

WVU basketball attendance: 12,375 (27th)
WVU football attendance: 57,859 (35th)
National sales rank (CLC): 14th

NC State basketball attendance: 13,184 (24th)
NC State football attendance: 56,820 (36th)
National sales rank (CLC): N/A (not licensed by CLC)

All of those stats lead me to believe that NC State, UofL, and WVU have comparable fan bases. What evidence do you have to the contrary?

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  best facilities (maybe Pitt but pro stadiums meh/ Louisville), etc.

Only college football stadium to haqve all chair back seating.



A 22K basketball arena that rivals the best NBA facilities in the nation.

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  NCSU's hoops tradition would be 2nd to none.

NC State
Titles: 2
Final Fours: 3
Elite Eights:6
Sweet Sixteen:9
NCAA appearances: 22

Louisville
Titles: 2
Final Fours: 8
Elite Eights:11
Sweet Sixteen:23
NCAA appearances: 35

The Louisville Cardinals men's basketball team is the 18th winningest college basketball team in NCAA Division I history and has the 10th best winning percentage in college basketball history. Currently coached by Rick Pitino, the Cardinals of the University of Louisville have a tradition of continued success, having been to 36 NCAA tournaments (5th all time) [1] with 60 tournament wins (6th all time). Louisville has been to eight Final Fours (7th all time) and is one of only 13 programs in the nation to have won two NCAA championships. The Cardinals have won 18 or more games 37 of the past 40 years, including 15 years with 24 or more wins.

NC State has a good hoops program, but 2nd to none? Really?

For the record they are averaging over 57k per game this year in football. Smallest crowd was the opener 55934.

This is also their most anticipated hoops season in several years. My guess is they average around 17k per game.

I standby my statement, they would have the largest fanbase in the Big East.

(11-08-2010 11:44 AM)UofL07 Wrote:  

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  Since you used NCSU as an example and I know them well. If NCSU were in the Big East it would have instantly the largest fanbase,

Facts:

Louisville basketball attendance (2009-2010): 19,397 (3rd nationally)
Louisville football attendance (2010): 51,776 (42nd)
National sales rank (CLC): 30th

WVU basketball attendance: 12,375 (27th)
WVU football attendance: 57,859 (35th)
National sales rank (CLC): 14th

NC State basketball attendance: 13,184 (24th)
NC State football attendance: 56,820 (36th)
National sales rank (CLC): N/A (not licensed by CLC)

All of those stats lead me to believe that NC State, UofL, and WVU have comparable fan bases. What evidence do you have to the contrary?

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  best facilities (maybe Pitt but pro stadiums meh/ Louisville), etc.

Only college football stadium to haqve all chair back seating.



A 22K basketball arena that rivals the best NBA facilities in the nation.

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  NCSU's hoops tradition would be 2nd to none.

NC State
Titles: 2
Final Fours: 3
Elite Eights:6
Sweet Sixteen:9
NCAA appearances: 22

Louisville
Titles: 2
Final Fours: 8
Elite Eights:11
Sweet Sixteen:23
NCAA appearances: 35

The Louisville Cardinals men's basketball team is the 18th winningest college basketball team in NCAA Division I history and has the 10th best winning percentage in college basketball history. Currently coached by Rick Pitino, the Cardinals of the University of Louisville have a tradition of continued success, having been to 36 NCAA tournaments (5th all time) [1] with 60 tournament wins (6th all time). Louisville has been to eight Final Fours (7th all time) and is one of only 13 programs in the nation to have won two NCAA championships. The Cardinals have won 18 or more games 37 of the past 40 years, including 15 years with 24 or more wins.


You can go ahead and take away about 5-10 of those NCAA appearances if Louisville had been in the ACC.

You also have to remember much of NCSU's hoops tradition is from the 50s and 60s, leagues were 1 bid leagues at that time. So just comparing NCAA appearances and final 4s doesn't do it justice.

As I said though, Louisville has been a much better program since the mid 80s or so.
NC State has a good hoops program, but 2nd to none? Really?

(11-08-2010 11:30 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  NCSU and Louisville are virtual='s in hoops historically.

Really? See post above since you obviously don't know much about either program's hoops history.

(11-08-2010 11:30 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  NCSU could draw 70-80k to certain football games if they had the capacity.

Couldn't most programs say that? I'm sure Louisville could fill up a 70K capacity stadium for the UofL-UK game if they had capacity.

(11-08-2010 11:30 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  I standby my largest fanbase comment. Without looking at the numbers there is no doubt in my mind they draw more fans to games than any other Big East team.

This is why it is important to fact check argument before making statements.

Watch what NCSU's hoops attendance is this season in an up year. They are coming off of 4 straight poor seasons. To compare for instance WVU's best year in decades in hoops, to NCSU with a non tournament team isn't quite fair.

(11-08-2010 11:16 AM)Hoquista Wrote:  

(11-06-2010 09:37 PM)miko33 Wrote:  RE: Are some of you depressed when you think of the future of the BE FB conference?

Yes.....the BE wasn't that far behind the other conferences in revenue but the BTN has meant that the BE will NEVER be close to the other BCS conferences going forward in terms of exposure or revenue.

The best time to build up football in the east was at the time the Big East was doing everything it could to prevent an all-sports conference from forming in the east. By the time The BEast decided to start playing football, it may already have become too late for eastern football to become anything more than pickings for the rest of the conferences...

We'll find out more on that later. But with everything that's going on at the moment, I'm not real enthused about our chances. There's way too many diverse opinions on everything, which doesn't lend itself to stability...

(11-08-2010 11:47 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  You can go ahead and take away about 5-10 of those NCAA appearances if Louisville had been in the ACC.

Subjective assessment.

(11-08-2010 11:47 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  You also have to remember much of NCSU's hoops tradition is from the 50s and 60s, leagues were 1 bid leagues at that time. So just comparing NCAA appearances and final 4s doesn't do it justice.

Your argument was that "NC States's hoops tradition would be 2nd to none". The idiom "second to none" means "better than anything or anyone else". Louisville has better attendance, better facilities, more final fours, more elite eights, more sweet sixteens, more tournament appearances, more all time wins in fewer years, a higher all-time win percentage, and is consistently ranked as the 7th/8th best hoops program of all-time by The Sport News. All of those facts indicate to me that you argument is not a valid one; NC State does not have superior hoops tradition to UofL.

I laid out objective reasons why Louisville's basketball tradition is better than NC States. Your retort is simply opinion.

(11-08-2010 11:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  Our conference is essentially a collection of programs such as Ole Miss, NC State, Illinois, OK St, and Cal. We simply don't have that bellcow we can hitch onto and lead us into the future.

I agree with this completely. You're dead right... we don't have any "national" brands in football like Alabama or USC. But on the other hand, we don't have any "dead weight" schools like Vandy, Duke, or IU either.

To answer the OP's question, yes, I fear the current round of expansion. I fear that other than TCU, we're considering adding schools that will quickly become the IU of the Big East and will become a significant drag on the conference.

Unlike IU, Duke, or Vandy, the UCF's and ECU's of the world don't add top notch basketball or academics, so if all that they offer is a football program that *might* at best be an average Big East program, then it's a gamble with little upside.

As others correctly noted, UCF compares very favorable in regards to academics to many other Big East Members.

UCF is ranked in Tier I academics...along with:

For the record, the USNWR 2010 rankings:

Syracuse - 58
Pitt - 64
Rutgers - 64
UCONN - 69
Cincy - 156
UL - 176
WVU - 176
UCF - 179
USF - 183

Also, UCF is ranked AHEAD of several other Big East Schools (including your own Cinci) on US News Top 20 National Up-and-Coming Universities:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...al-uc-rank

In regards to Hoops, UCF finally decided to support their hoop program on the court (with brand new $80 Million Arena that opened in 2007) and off-the-court, where the AD finally made his first ever hire and more than doubled the basketball budget...as Donnie Jones' first full class for 2011 is already ranked in some Top 25-30 services.

Obviously, no one from the Big Ten (like Indiana) or the ACC (like Duke) will jump ship and join the Big East...so the Big East has to make the best of it...and remaining at 8 football programs in a hybrid conf is obviously not it.

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  I'm highly skeptical about the results provided by the non-contracted firm that put together this study saying we can expect fb/$15 mil bb/$6-8 mil. The money will unquestionably increase, but realistically, can we really expect to be on par with the other AQ conferences? I don't think so.

That is my thinking as well. Big East should get a nice boost to its TV revenues (especially if the economy picks up soon), but it will still be last in terms of revenue.

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  My reasoning is sound. The SEC doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Ole Miss. The ACC doesn't earn their $100+ million because of NC State. The B10 doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Illinois. The B12 doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Oklahoma St. The Pac 10 won't earn their $100+ million because of Cal. Every other AQ conference has at least one strong national anchor school that provides a highly disproportionate share of their tv money.

Agree for the most part. However, I'd add that another reason why those conferences generate such large revenues from TV is because of the make-up of those schools. Most are very large "state schools" that draw fan (alumni and T-shirt) interest through their entire states. That means a school like OSU can pull market shares in Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo, Dayton, etc. The Big East, on the other hand, is made up of a larger percentage of regional/market-oriented (Louisville, UC, Pittsburgh, USF) teams. Those schools can deliver their home markets, but they have a much tougher time delivering entire states/multiple markets. IMO, that decreases their TV value and hurts the Big East in terms of TV negotiation.

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  So, to answer the OP's questions - no, I'm not particularly depressed about the future of BE FB.

For now, I'm not. Get back to me after I see where the Big East is actually heading though

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  And, no, I doubt there is much we can do to stop a member school from accepting a bid from another AQ conference.

Agree. The financial reality will make the decision for schools.

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  If this expansion process plays out properly, the BE should be able to strengthen its position in the grand scheme of things. We may not be immune to being raided, but we'll be in much better position to stand tall after such a raid.

That is ultimately the important point. Realistically, the BE is not going to climb above other BCS conference in terms of revenue. But so long as the conference puts a larger gap between itself and the non-AQ conferences and secures its place in the AQ hierarchy, I think we'll be fine.

(11-08-2010 11:30 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(11-08-2010 11:02 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(11-08-2010 10:46 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(11-08-2010 01:16 AM)Tampa Bearcat Wrote:  I'm highly skeptical about the results provided by the non-contracted firm that put together this study saying we can expect fb/$15 mil bb/$6-8 mil. The money will unquestionably increase, but realistically, can we really expect to be on par with the other AQ conferences? I don't think so.

My reasoning is sound. The SEC doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Ole Miss. The ACC doesn't earn their $100+ million because of NC State. The B10 doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Illinois. The B12 doesn't earn their $100+ million because of Oklahoma St. The Pac 10 won't earn their $100+ million because of Cal. Every other AQ conference has at least one strong national anchor school that provides a highly disproportionate share of their tv money.

Our conference is essentially a collection of programs such as Ole Miss, NC State, Illinois, OK St, and Cal. We simply don't have that bellcow we can hitch onto and lead us into the future. You know what - I'm perfectly fine with that. I think there is something to be said for being in a place where a good 2 or 3 year run can lead to a BCS bowl or two.

So, to answer the OP's questions - no, I'm not particularly depressed about the future of BE FB. And, no, I doubt there is much we can do to stop a member school from accepting a bid from another AQ conference. If this expansion process plays out properly, the BE should be able to strengthen its position in the grand scheme of things. We may not be immune to being raided, but we'll be in much better position to stand tall after such a raid.

No offence, but the Big East has two programs that are comparable to NCSU, Cal, Illinois, Ok St, etc. I would say WVU and Pitt both fall into that category.

Louisville, Syracuse, and Cincy are all solid programs, but I would say a tier behind those fanbases.

Since you used NCSU as an example and I know them well. If NCSU were in the Big East it would have instantly the largest fanbase, best facilities (maybe Pitt but pro stadiums meh/ Louisville), etc.

NCSU's hoops tradition would be 2nd to none. I would argue over the last 20-30 years it would have the 2nd best football program behind only WVU. Clearly if you wanna go back further than that Syracuse and Pitt trump them.

Just saying USF, UCONN overall, Rutgers, Cincy, Syracuse and even Louisville (although fairly close) do not measure up.

WVU, Pitt and Syracuse are all better programs than NC State historically and all three are top twenty in all time wins.

It is an absolute joke to pretend NCState would instantly have the largest fanbase-they wouldn't even have the largest stadium. WVU would be far and away a larger fanbase. Pitt, USF, UConn, UL and WVU all have facilities on par or better than NC State football and basketball wise and that is probably leaving one or two out.

NCSU's hoops second to none huh? Yeah right. WVU, Pitt, UL, SU and UConn just from the football side might disprove that joke of a statement many times over. Their football program hasn't done anything over the years.

Don't let reality get in the way of trying to make things up though.

There is no bigger hate of NCSU than I. That said they draw better for hoops than WVU does and hell they even draw pretty well for Women's hoops.

Louisville's hoops program has been better since the mid 80s. But NCSU would've made many more NCAA tourneys in the 90s for instance had it played in C-USA or the Metro. You're starting to see that now with some teams in the Big East not making it because the hoops league is so strong.

NCSU and Louisville are virtual='s in hoops historically.

NCSU could draw 70-80k to certain football games if they had the capacity. I standby my largest fanbase comment. Without looking at the numbers there is no doubt in my mind they draw more fans to games than any other Big East team. (Syracuse drawing 30+ for certain hoops games is the only thing that makes me half way hesitant).

Most recent attendance numbers
2010 men's hoops #24 13,184 (in a non NCAA tournament year, hell no NIT year)
2009 football #34 a little over 54k in a losing season (only WVU ranks ahead and my guess is NCSU is higher this season as they have had nothing but sellouts)

u r heavily regarding ul and ncsu comparison

NCST hoops second to none

Please pass the joint on to rest of us

(11-08-2010 02:56 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  NCST hoops second to none

Please pass the joint on to rest of us

x2

(11-08-2010 12:03 PM)UofL07 Wrote:  

(11-08-2010 11:47 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  You can go ahead and take away about 5-10 of those NCAA appearances if Louisville had been in the ACC.

Subjective assessment.

(11-08-2010 11:47 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  You also have to remember much of NCSU's hoops tradition is from the 50s and 60s, leagues were 1 bid leagues at that time. So just comparing NCAA appearances and final 4s doesn't do it justice.

Your argument was that "NC States's hoops tradition would be 2nd to none". The idiom "second to none" means "better than anything or anyone else". Louisville has better attendance, better facilities, more final fours, more elite eights, more sweet sixteens, more tournament appearances, more all time wins in fewer years, a higher all-time win percentage, and is consistently ranked as the 7th/8th best hoops program of all-time by The Sport News. All of those facts indicate to me that you argument is not a valid one; NC State does not have superior hoops tradition to UofL.

I laid out objective reasons why Louisville's basketball tradition is better than NC States. Your retort is simply opinion.

Owned!

Oasis, NC State is not only second to none, they clearly are behind UofL. You have your opinion, and UofL fans have all relevant and applicable facts. Not to mention, as I referenced earlier, UofL is consistently rated as the #7 program all-time behind UCLA, UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas, and IU. You simply will not find a historical rating with NCSt over UofL.

As for attendance, you're stating NCSt's total football/basketball attendance at 73k (56/17) per game. UofL is nearly identical in all likelihood at around 51k/22k. Not exactly stunning considering we're led to believe we all need to bow down to the mightly wolfpack. Let's just say that in this debate with nothing factual on your side, you are a wolfpack of one.