(10-31-2010 07:49 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(10-30-2010 08:24 PM)UofL07 Wrote:  

(10-29-2010 03:56 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  When you think about it from TCU's standpoint, as they are probably doing, what are reasons they would want to be part of the Big East instead of the Mountain West with Boise, Air Force, Nevada, Fresno, San Diego State, etc...?

Why would ECU want to be in the Big East? Or Memphis? or UCF?

Money and automatic BCS access.

The question is of TCU, who is in the MWC, not of CUSA teams. Its apples and oranges, when you consider that the MWC has been getting BCS access regularly.

I know you are smarter than that.
BIG Reason for TCU wanting to be in Big east rather than in MWC.
To go to a BCS Bowl TCU must go 12-0 and maybe hope 10-1 gets them in. Very little margin of error.
In Big East all they have to do is win the conference. This year our champ will probably be 8-4 and still go to a BCS Bowl. you think TCU or other MWC could get in with a similar record?

Reasons:

Would be part of an AQ BCS league

Better shot at MNC if it wins conference

Better bowl access

Increased revenues

Better tv exposure

More exposure in the east

Higher profile conference games

While the BCS money and autobid is significant, I actually think TV money is the bigger carrot. The BCS may change over time (playoff, adjustments to the autobid process, etc), but the TV money is pretty predictable. What does the BE make on TV- something like 4 million a year, likely to increase (correct me on the numbers). The MWC makes 1.3 Mil, could decrease.

The biggest negatives would be the unknowable what-ifs of the future- will the next wave of expansion be East and the BE get pilphered and left for dead, leaving the MWC fill some sort of conference void out west? Could we end up on the wrong side of a chasm? Doubtful and I think you can only make decisions on the knowables of the present. I think it would be a pretty easy decision, if invited.

(11-01-2010 10:50 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  While the BCS money and autobid is significant, I actually think TV money is the bigger carrot. The BCS may change over time (playoff, adjustments to the autobid process, etc), but the TV money is pretty predictable. What does the BE make on TV- something like 4 million a year, likely to increase (correct me on the numbers). The MWC makes 1.3 Mil, could decrease.

The biggest negatives would be the unknowable what-ifs of the future- will the next wave of expansion be East and the BE get pilphered and left for dead, leaving the MWC fill some sort of conference void out west? Could we end up on the wrong side of a chasm? Doubtful and I think you can only make decisions on the knowables of the present. I think it would be a pretty easy decision, if invited.

The MWC is already in a void without Utah and BYU. It's going to be TCU, Boise, and the eight dwarfs in football. Moving to the Big East, if you have the chance, is a no-brainer. You have a top-tier football program; get it into a league with top-tier "branding" if you can.

(11-01-2010 11:02 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 10:50 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  While the BCS money and autobid is significant, I actually think TV money is the bigger carrot. The BCS may change over time (playoff, adjustments to the autobid process, etc), but the TV money is pretty predictable. What does the BE make on TV- something like 4 million a year, likely to increase (correct me on the numbers). The MWC makes 1.3 Mil, could decrease.

The biggest negatives would be the unknowable what-ifs of the future- will the next wave of expansion be East and the BE get pilphered and left for dead, leaving the MWC fill some sort of conference void out west? Could we end up on the wrong side of a chasm? Doubtful and I think you can only make decisions on the knowables of the present. I think it would be a pretty easy decision, if invited.

The MWC is already in a void without Utah and BYU. It's going to be TCU, Boise, and the eight dwarfs in football. Moving to the Big East, if you have the chance, is a no-brainer. You have a top-tier football program; get it into a league with top-tier "branding" if you can.

Lets say there is superconference action out east and we are left in a far flung conference with the 3-5 worst current/future BE teams. That wouldn't be ideal.

There are some competitive advantages out west. It's no coincidence that most of the strong non-AQ teams have come from out West. The talent/schools ratio is an advantage with so few autobid schools in relative terms. Schools don't have to fight as much for attention and dollars like the non-AQ schools elsewhere. I think you'll see the Utah and BYU competitive void filled. SDSU is already finally showing signs, and Fresno and Nevada should benefit from being in a better conference. I really think there is a natural power void out west that will continue to make it a fertile area for non-AQ schools and with the WAC now out of the picture, that niche could actually grow.

I think moving to the Big East is the right choice if invited, but we have to acknowledge the risks- if everything goes the wrong way we could be in a less desirable situation than staying. But I think it is worth the risk.

(10-31-2010 07:49 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The question is of TCU, who is in the MWC, not of CUSA teams. Its apples and oranges, when you consider that the MWC has been getting BCS access regularly.

Would you rather receive a paycheck only when you did an outstanding job at work (i.e. a MWC pretty much has to go 11-1 or 12-0 to get a BCS bid) or would you rather receive a pay check pretty much every week no matter how good your work was or not (i.e. BE champ gets a BCS slot regardless of record)? That same question applies to TCU. Yes, the MWC has been getting a BCS slot every year because they are experiencing a unprecedented run of success. However, the smallest misstep by the MWC's top teams means that they could very easily be out of BCS bowl contention (one or two losses could knock them out entirely). That isn't the case in the Big East. So one consideration is do you go with a conference that will guarantee you access every year regardless of how the top team performs or do you stick with a conference that could lose access with a single loss?

The second, and more important question, is TV money. The MWC's TV deal was already smaller than the BE's prior to Utah and BYU announcing their departure. Both of those programs were top TV draws for the conference and considering that they are leaving, I would expect the MWC's TV revenues situation is going to get worse.

(11-01-2010 11:39 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 11:02 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 10:50 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  While the BCS money and autobid is significant, I actually think TV money is the bigger carrot. The BCS may change over time (playoff, adjustments to the autobid process, etc), but the TV money is pretty predictable. What does the BE make on TV- something like 4 million a year, likely to increase (correct me on the numbers). The MWC makes 1.3 Mil, could decrease.

The biggest negatives would be the unknowable what-ifs of the future- will the next wave of expansion be East and the BE get pilphered and left for dead, leaving the MWC fill some sort of conference void out west? Could we end up on the wrong side of a chasm? Doubtful and I think you can only make decisions on the knowables of the present. I think it would be a pretty easy decision, if invited.

The MWC is already in a void without Utah and BYU. It's going to be TCU, Boise, and the eight dwarfs in football. Moving to the Big East, if you have the chance, is a no-brainer. You have a top-tier football program; get it into a league with top-tier "branding" if you can.

Lets say there is superconference action out east and we are left in a far flung conference with the 3-5 worst current/future BE teams. That wouldn't be ideal.

There are some competitive advantages out west. It's no coincidence that most of the strong non-AQ teams have come from out West. The talent/schools ratio is an advantage with so few autobid schools in relative terms. Schools don't have to fight as much for attention and dollars like the non-AQ schools elsewhere. I think you'll see the Utah and BYU competitive void filled. SDSU is already finally showing signs, and Fresno and Nevada should benefit from being in a better conference. I really think there is a natural power void out west that will continue to make it a fertile area for non-AQ schools and with the WAC now out of the picture, that niche could actually grow.

I think moving to the Big East is the right choice if invited, but we have to acknowledge the risks- if everything goes the wrong way we could be in a less desirable situation than staying. But I think it is worth the risk.

There are risks, and frankly any 17-20 team configuration (really any conference with more than 12) is worth a healthy dose of skepticism. But TCU is already an island in a far-flung conference. Flying to Fresno State or Wyoming is not better than flying to South Florida or UConn IMO.

(11-01-2010 12:05 PM)UofL07 Wrote:  

(10-31-2010 07:49 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The question is of TCU, who is in the MWC, not of CUSA teams. Its apples and oranges, when you consider that the MWC has been getting BCS access regularly.

Would you rather receive a paycheck only when you did an outstanding job at work (i.e. a MWC pretty much has to go 11-1 or 12-0 to get a BCS bid) or would you rather receive a pay check pretty much every week no matter how good your work was or not (i.e. BE champ gets a BCS slot regardless of record)? That same question applies to TCU. Yes, the MWC has been getting a BCS slot every year because they are experiencing a unprecedented run of success. However, the smallest misstep by the MWC's top teams means that they could very easily be out of BCS bowl contention (one or two losses could knock them out entirely). That isn't the case in the Big East. So one consideration is do you go with a conference that will guarantee you access every year regardless of how the top team performs or do you stick with a conference that could lose access with a single loss?

The second, and more important question, is TV money. The MWC's TV deal was already smaller than the BE's prior to Utah and BYU announcing their departure. Both of those programs were top TV draws for the conference and considering that they are leaving, I would expect the MWC's TV revenues situation is going to get worse.

Its a gamble though...the BE may be splitting the pie more when all is said and done.

Additionally, TCU has proven that they can access the BCS and go unbeaten and that there is no difference between whether they are playing in the BE or playing the MWC when it comes to playing for a BCS NC. Neither are getting in over the PAC, SEC, Big 10 and Big 12.

(11-01-2010 08:15 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  Reasons:

Would be part of an AQ BCS league

Better shot at MNC if it wins conference

Better bowl access

Increased revenues

Better tv exposure

More exposure in the east

Higher profile conference games

I disagree with 1, 2, and 3 as being as important as you are claiming. The access to the BCS, better bowls, and MNC arent going to change much from where they already are (#3), it may actually worsen. Maybe revenues increase, I dont know. Certainly more exposure in the East, which may help recruiting (although they seem to be doing well, it seems it may help BE recruiting more than TCU's).

Higher profile Conference Games? Seriously??? Last year TCU played BYU and Gameday was there. When was the last time that happened in the BE? This week #3 TCU takes on #5 Utah (BCS Standings) and Gameday will be THERE.

When you review the details and where they sit right now, its not as cut and dry and some make it out to be.

It's ironic that you pick those schools as reasons TCU is better off in the MWC considering neither of those schools will be in the MWC next year.

(11-01-2010 03:15 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 08:15 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  Reasons:

Would be part of an AQ BCS league

Better shot at MNC if it wins conference

Better bowl access

Increased revenues

Better tv exposure

More exposure in the east

Higher profile conference games

I disagree with 1, 2, and 3 as being as important as you are claiming. The access to the BCS, better bowls, and MNC arent going to change much from where they already are (#3), it may actually worsen. Maybe revenues increase, I dont know. Certainly more exposure in the East, which may help recruiting (although they seem to be doing well, it seems it may help BE recruiting more than TCU's).

Higher profile Conference Games? Seriously??? Last year TCU played BYU and Gameday was there. When was the last time that happened in the BE? This week #3 TCU takes on #5 Utah (BCS Standings) and Gameday will be THERE.

When you review the details and where they sit right now, its not as cut and dry and some make it out to be.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

#1 they will be part of an AQ league. Suddenly you think this is not important? But you've been yapping about the BE letting you in non stop. TCU right now has to go 11-0 to make the BCS. In an AQ conference they win the conference regardless of wins-losses and they are in.

#2 Better shot at MNC. Right now they have to be undefeated to even make the BCS let alone the MNC. Just a couple of seasons ago WVU had a loss yet needed to just beat Pitt and they would be playing in the MNC. This will never happen for TCU because although there are a couple of decent teams in their league, there are many more worse ones and this lowers their score to much.

#3 The Big East RIGHT NOW has better and higher profile bowls than does the MWC and this isn't going to change. Having TCU will likely open up another western bowl.

Higher profile games yes. Gameday isn't the be all and end of all of high profile games. TCU currently plays a couple a year maybe. In the Big East they will have WVU, Pitt, Syracuse and games against whoever else is at the top of the league in a particular year. BE teams have better name recognition, are on televison nationally more than MWC teams are and are on in the eastern time zone.

Again, I know you are jealous, but TCU's administrators won't take any of that into account when looking at the facts.

(11-01-2010 12:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 11:39 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 11:02 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 10:50 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  While the BCS money and autobid is significant, I actually think TV money is the bigger carrot. The BCS may change over time (playoff, adjustments to the autobid process, etc), but the TV money is pretty predictable. What does the BE make on TV- something like 4 million a year, likely to increase (correct me on the numbers). The MWC makes 1.3 Mil, could decrease.

The biggest negatives would be the unknowable what-ifs of the future- will the next wave of expansion be East and the BE get pilphered and left for dead, leaving the MWC fill some sort of conference void out west? Could we end up on the wrong side of a chasm? Doubtful and I think you can only make decisions on the knowables of the present. I think it would be a pretty easy decision, if invited.

The MWC is already in a void without Utah and BYU. It's going to be TCU, Boise, and the eight dwarfs in football. Moving to the Big East, if you have the chance, is a no-brainer. You have a top-tier football program; get it into a league with top-tier "branding" if you can.

Lets say there is superconference action out east and we are left in a far flung conference with the 3-5 worst current/future BE teams. That wouldn't be ideal.

There are some competitive advantages out west. It's no coincidence that most of the strong non-AQ teams have come from out West. The talent/schools ratio is an advantage with so few autobid schools in relative terms. Schools don't have to fight as much for attention and dollars like the non-AQ schools elsewhere. I think you'll see the Utah and BYU competitive void filled. SDSU is already finally showing signs, and Fresno and Nevada should benefit from being in a better conference. I really think there is a natural power void out west that will continue to make it a fertile area for non-AQ schools and with the WAC now out of the picture, that niche could actually grow.

I think moving to the Big East is the right choice if invited, but we have to acknowledge the risks- if everything goes the wrong way we could be in a less desirable situation than staying. But I think it is worth the risk.

There are risks, and frankly any 17-20 team configuration (really any conference with more than 12) is worth a healthy dose of skepticism. But TCU is already an island in a far-flung conference. Flying to Fresno State or Wyoming is not better than flying to South Florida or UConn IMO.

TCU has acknowleged that the travel may be easier to BE than the newly formed MWC... with 4 instead of 2 PST teams now in MWC. Also the flight/ground access to the East Coast team sites would be more favorable than MWC. Would think the games at high altitude wouldn't be missed either.

Great point horny toad. Also I have to say again HP raving about the value of the MWC over the Big East by talking about Game Day appearances against teams that will no longer be in the conference defeats the purpose of your argument. Also we have had games on network television has the MWC? People can speculate about us losing teams the MWC has actually list teams and may lose more with Air Force considering independence.

(11-01-2010 04:52 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 03:15 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 08:15 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  Reasons:

Would be part of an AQ BCS league

Better shot at MNC if it wins conference

Better bowl access

Increased revenues

Better tv exposure

More exposure in the east

Higher profile conference games

I disagree with 1, 2, and 3 as being as important as you are claiming. The access to the BCS, better bowls, and MNC arent going to change much from where they already are (#3), it may actually worsen. Maybe revenues increase, I dont know. Certainly more exposure in the East, which may help recruiting (although they seem to be doing well, it seems it may help BE recruiting more than TCU's).

Higher profile Conference Games? Seriously??? Last year TCU played BYU and Gameday was there. When was the last time that happened in the BE? This week #3 TCU takes on #5 Utah (BCS Standings) and Gameday will be THERE.

When you review the details and where they sit right now, its not as cut and dry and some make it out to be.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

#1 they will be part of an AQ league. Suddenly you think this is not important? But you've been yapping about the BE letting you in non stop. TCU right now has to go 11-0 to make the BCS. In an AQ conference they win the conference regardless of wins-losses and they are in.

#2 Better shot at MNC. Right now they have to be undefeated to even make the BCS let alone the MNC. Just a couple of seasons ago WVU had a loss yet needed to just beat Pitt and they would be playing in the MNC. This will never happen for TCU because although there are a couple of decent teams in their league, there are many more worse ones and this lowers their score to much.

#3 The Big East RIGHT NOW has better and higher profile bowls than does the MWC and this isn't going to change. Having TCU will likely open up another western bowl.

Higher profile games yes. Gameday isn't the be all and end of all of high profile games. TCU currently plays a couple a year maybe. In the Big East they will have WVU, Pitt, Syracuse and games against whoever else is at the top of the league in a particular year. BE teams have better name recognition, are on televison nationally more than MWC teams are and are on in the eastern time zone.

Again, I know you are jealous, but TCU's administrators won't take any of that into account when looking at the facts.

Why cant things be discussed without you taking pot shots at people? I have laid out points and dont agree on some of yours, you respond by calling me jealous...because you cant see past that I am an East Carolina grad. Personally, I think the AQ should be abolished within the BCS and every team should be able to stand on its own. If all of these conferences are so great, why do they have to hide behind the AQ? Why cant we just have the BEST teams?

And last I checked, Boise State will be in the MWC, and they entertained Gameday this year as well. There is validity to my point, whether or not some want to admit it.

(11-02-2010 05:52 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 04:52 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 03:15 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 08:15 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  Reasons:

Would be part of an AQ BCS league

Better shot at MNC if it wins conference

Better bowl access

Increased revenues

Better tv exposure

More exposure in the east

Higher profile conference games

I disagree with 1, 2, and 3 as being as important as you are claiming. The access to the BCS, better bowls, and MNC arent going to change much from where they already are (#3), it may actually worsen. Maybe revenues increase, I dont know. Certainly more exposure in the East, which may help recruiting (although they seem to be doing well, it seems it may help BE recruiting more than TCU's).

Higher profile Conference Games? Seriously??? Last year TCU played BYU and Gameday was there. When was the last time that happened in the BE? This week #3 TCU takes on #5 Utah (BCS Standings) and Gameday will be THERE.

When you review the details and where they sit right now, its not as cut and dry and some make it out to be.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

#1 they will be part of an AQ league. Suddenly you think this is not important? But you've been yapping about the BE letting you in non stop. TCU right now has to go 11-0 to make the BCS. In an AQ conference they win the conference regardless of wins-losses and they are in.

#2 Better shot at MNC. Right now they have to be undefeated to even make the BCS let alone the MNC. Just a couple of seasons ago WVU had a loss yet needed to just beat Pitt and they would be playing in the MNC. This will never happen for TCU because although there are a couple of decent teams in their league, there are many more worse ones and this lowers their score to much.

#3 The Big East RIGHT NOW has better and higher profile bowls than does the MWC and this isn't going to change. Having TCU will likely open up another western bowl.

Higher profile games yes. Gameday isn't the be all and end of all of high profile games. TCU currently plays a couple a year maybe. In the Big East they will have WVU, Pitt, Syracuse and games against whoever else is at the top of the league in a particular year. BE teams have better name recognition, are on televison nationally more than MWC teams are and are on in the eastern time zone.

Again, I know you are jealous, but TCU's administrators won't take any of that into account when looking at the facts.

Personally, I think the AQ should be abolished within the BCS and every team should be able to stand on its own. If all of these conferences are so great, why do they have to hide behind the AQ? Why cant we just have the BEST teams?

Do you remember what the bowl arrangements were before the BCS came around? Non AQ teams would be no better then as they are today.

The old bowl arrangements had nothing to do with rankings, or deserves. It was all driven by money - and the teams that brought the most fans got the invites, whether they deserved 'em or not...

(11-02-2010 05:33 AM)CatsClaw Wrote:  Great point horny toad. Also I have to say again HP raving about the value of the MWC over the Big East by talking about Game Day appearances against teams that will no longer be in the conference defeats the purpose of your argument. Also we have had games on network television has the MWC? People can speculate about us losing teams the MWC has actually list teams and may lose more with Air Force considering independence.

AFA is 'most' likely not a candidate for leaving the league. However, if TCU leaves and MWC and does not replace quickly with Houston+SMU invite ... then you may very well be right. In football strength, BSU replaces the Utes(plus Boise has a higher nat'l interest) and Nevada+Fresno easily replaces BYU in strength category too. There is no reason to challenge BE's TV set up. They have it with the BCS and numbers of TV sets.