(10-28-2010 06:09 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  That was a good and thoughtful answer to my statement, Neil. Thanks...

(10-28-2010 03:24 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 01:21 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I often think SU fans are more concerned with keeping the rivalries with Georgetown and the other basketball schools than they are with the status of the football side of the conference...

Some fans are. Most SU fans who post on this board I would say are either SU football fans first or at least put SU football on equal footing with SU basketball. But what does SU fan preferences have to do with how losing SU wouldn't impact the perception of the league?

If the majority of Syracuse fans value the basketball rivalries over the football rivalries, the university administration is going to reflect that in their decisions on the fate of The BEast. Ultimately, this hurts the football schools, since there is one school that is NOT on the same page as the rest of us, and can be actively working against our best interests at times. Removing the faction that the football schools are uncomfortable depending upon helps in the long run. That's what this is all about in the first place - long term survival...

This is directly attributable to the hybrid nature of the conference, which seeks to bind numerous disparate factions with no real unifying factor holding us together. This is why I will always prefer the all-sports conference option, since all schools put the conference first and work towards goals mutually agreed upon. The all-sports conference option will not be supported by Syracuse, since they value their basketball rivalries too much to cut conference ties to them, and in the long run this hurts us all. Although I think Syracuse is hoping to avoid this demise, because they expect a Big Tin lifeline to come along just when they need it most. The rest of us is not their concern...

That's the attitude I get from what I read out of Syracuse. If I'm wrong, shoot me. I'm just stating the facts as I see 'em, and that's what I've gathered from Syracuse since the Big East first formed...

You must have missed the point in my post where I mentioned that it was well documented that SU was willing to vote to leave the bb schools behind to form an allsport conference, and that WV, the program that YOU root for, along with the other fb schools voted to continue this hybrid conference. I see you never let the facts get in the way of your agenda Bit. SU only gets one vote, so they alone are not going to "hurt the conference".

Good one, dude. I had forgotten about that vote...

However, since all that happened around the time of my transplant, I was otherwise occupied and little concerned with The BEast...

(10-28-2010 07:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 06:09 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  That was a good and thoughtful answer to my statement, Neil. Thanks...

(10-28-2010 03:24 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 01:21 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I often think SU fans are more concerned with keeping the rivalries with Georgetown and the other basketball schools than they are with the status of the football side of the conference...

Some fans are. Most SU fans who post on this board I would say are either SU football fans first or at least put SU football on equal footing with SU basketball. But what does SU fan preferences have to do with how losing SU wouldn't impact the perception of the league?

If the majority of Syracuse fans value the basketball rivalries over the football rivalries, the university administration is going to reflect that in their decisions on the fate of The BEast. Ultimately, this hurts the football schools, since there is one school that is NOT on the same page as the rest of us, and can be actively working against our best interests at times. Removing the faction that the football schools are uncomfortable depending upon helps in the long run. That's what this is all about in the first place - long term survival...

This is directly attributable to the hybrid nature of the conference, which seeks to bind numerous disparate factions with no real unifying factor holding us together. This is why I will always prefer the all-sports conference option, since all schools put the conference first and work towards goals mutually agreed upon. The all-sports conference option will not be supported by Syracuse, since they value their basketball rivalries too much to cut conference ties to them, and in the long run this hurts us all. Although I think Syracuse is hoping to avoid this demise, because they expect a Big Tin lifeline to come along just when they need it most. The rest of us is not their concern...

That's the attitude I get from what I read out of Syracuse. If I'm wrong, shoot me. I'm just stating the facts as I see 'em, and that's what I've gathered from Syracuse since the Big East first formed...

You must have missed the point in my post where I mentioned that it was well documented that SU was willing to vote to leave the bb schools behind to form an allsport conference, and that WV, the program that YOU root for, along with the other fb schools voted to continue this hybrid conference. I see you never let the facts get in the way of your agenda Bit. SU only gets one vote, so they alone are not going to "hurt the conference".

Can you point me to that post? As far as I remember, ALL of the BE FB schools voted to split from the BB schools in July 2003 (the vote was 6-0) as was shown in the 'BE meeting minutes' pdf file that was floating around back then.

Or are you talking about afterwards when it was decided to stick together as was shown in the September 'BE meeting minutes'?

(10-29-2010 04:03 AM)Hoquista Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 07:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 06:09 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  That was a good and thoughtful answer to my statement, Neil. Thanks...

(10-28-2010 03:24 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 01:21 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I often think SU fans are more concerned with keeping the rivalries with Georgetown and the other basketball schools than they are with the status of the football side of the conference...

Some fans are. Most SU fans who post on this board I would say are either SU football fans first or at least put SU football on equal footing with SU basketball. But what does SU fan preferences have to do with how losing SU wouldn't impact the perception of the league?

If the majority of Syracuse fans value the basketball rivalries over the football rivalries, the university administration is going to reflect that in their decisions on the fate of The BEast. Ultimately, this hurts the football schools, since there is one school that is NOT on the same page as the rest of us, and can be actively working against our best interests at times. Removing the faction that the football schools are uncomfortable depending upon helps in the long run. That's what this is all about in the first place - long term survival...

This is directly attributable to the hybrid nature of the conference, which seeks to bind numerous disparate factions with no real unifying factor holding us together. This is why I will always prefer the all-sports conference option, since all schools put the conference first and work towards goals mutually agreed upon. The all-sports conference option will not be supported by Syracuse, since they value their basketball rivalries too much to cut conference ties to them, and in the long run this hurts us all. Although I think Syracuse is hoping to avoid this demise, because they expect a Big Tin lifeline to come along just when they need it most. The rest of us is not their concern...

That's the attitude I get from what I read out of Syracuse. If I'm wrong, shoot me. I'm just stating the facts as I see 'em, and that's what I've gathered from Syracuse since the Big East first formed...

You must have missed the point in my post where I mentioned that it was well documented that SU was willing to vote to leave the bb schools behind to form an allsport conference, and that WV, the program that YOU root for, along with the other fb schools voted to continue this hybrid conference. I see you never let the facts get in the way of your agenda Bit. SU only gets one vote, so they alone are not going to "hurt the conference".

Can you point me to that post? As far as I remember, ALL of the BE FB schools voted to split from the BB schools in July 2003 (the vote was 6-0) as was shown in the 'BE meeting minutes' pdf file that was floating around back then.

Or are you talking about afterwards when it was decided to stick together as was shown in the September 'BE meeting minutes'?

The minutes of that meeting is linked below, but those are only a few pages, but thats all that I could find. I'm not sure where to find the rest of it. I'm sure someone can dig it up. But, in essence what had happened, was that after the acc invited Miami and VT, and SU and BC had been left out. Leaders from both programs re-affirmed their committment to the BE conference, and they had all agreed that they would split from the bb schools and not expand to 16 members. When they met again to cast their votes, they learned that the other fb schools had changed their minds and were going to vote to not only stay aligned with the bb schools, but also expand to 16 members. The BC leaders used this as the impetus to beg the acc for admittance, because the "fb schools had went back on their agreement." Jake Crouthamel, who was the SU AD at the time, was so upset he said that if the fb schools did not vote to split from the bb schools that he would retire. And he did.


http://mysite.verizon.net/fethrs/Minutes...202003.pdf

(10-29-2010 07:24 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-29-2010 04:03 AM)Hoquista Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 07:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 06:09 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  That was a good and thoughtful answer to my statement, Neil. Thanks...

(10-28-2010 03:24 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  Some fans are. Most SU fans who post on this board I would say are either SU football fans first or at least put SU football on equal footing with SU basketball. But what does SU fan preferences have to do with how losing SU wouldn't impact the perception of the league?

If the majority of Syracuse fans value the basketball rivalries over the football rivalries, the university administration is going to reflect that in their decisions on the fate of The BEast. Ultimately, this hurts the football schools, since there is one school that is NOT on the same page as the rest of us, and can be actively working against our best interests at times. Removing the faction that the football schools are uncomfortable depending upon helps in the long run. That's what this is all about in the first place - long term survival...

This is directly attributable to the hybrid nature of the conference, which seeks to bind numerous disparate factions with no real unifying factor holding us together. This is why I will always prefer the all-sports conference option, since all schools put the conference first and work towards goals mutually agreed upon. The all-sports conference option will not be supported by Syracuse, since they value their basketball rivalries too much to cut conference ties to them, and in the long run this hurts us all. Although I think Syracuse is hoping to avoid this demise, because they expect a Big Tin lifeline to come along just when they need it most. The rest of us is not their concern...

That's the attitude I get from what I read out of Syracuse. If I'm wrong, shoot me. I'm just stating the facts as I see 'em, and that's what I've gathered from Syracuse since the Big East first formed...

You must have missed the point in my post where I mentioned that it was well documented that SU was willing to vote to leave the bb schools behind to form an allsport conference, and that WV, the program that YOU root for, along with the other fb schools voted to continue this hybrid conference. I see you never let the facts get in the way of your agenda Bit. SU only gets one vote, so they alone are not going to "hurt the conference".

Can you point me to that post? As far as I remember, ALL of the BE FB schools voted to split from the BB schools in July 2003 (the vote was 6-0) as was shown in the 'BE meeting minutes' pdf file that was floating around back then.

Or are you talking about afterwards when it was decided to stick together as was shown in the September 'BE meeting minutes'?

That article is archived somewhere on these BE boards, with the minutes of that meeting. I'm not sure where to find it. I'm sure someone can dig it up. But, in essence what had happened, was that after the acc invited Miami and VT, and SU and BC had been left out. Leaders from both programs re-affirmed their committment to the BE conference, and they had all agreed that they would split from the bb schools. When they met again to cast their votes, they learned that the other fb schools had changed their minds and were going to vote to stay aligned with the bb schools. The BC leaders used this as the impetus to beg the acc for admittance, because the "fb schools had went back on their agreement." Jake Crouthamel, who was the SU AD at the time, was so upset he said that if the fb schools did not vote to split from the bb schools that he would retire. And he did.

Ok. You are talking about what took place between July and September.

(10-29-2010 07:45 AM)Hoquista Wrote:  

(10-29-2010 07:24 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-29-2010 04:03 AM)Hoquista Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 07:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-28-2010 06:09 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  That was a good and thoughtful answer to my statement, Neil. Thanks...If the majority of Syracuse fans value the basketball rivalries over the football rivalries, the university administration is going to reflect that in their decisions on the fate of The BEast. Ultimately, this hurts the football schools, since there is one school that is NOT on the same page as the rest of us, and can be actively working against our best interests at times. Removing the faction that the football schools are uncomfortable depending upon helps in the long run. That's what this is all about in the first place - long term survival...

This is directly attributable to the hybrid nature of the conference, which seeks to bind numerous disparate factions with no real unifying factor holding us together. This is why I will always prefer the all-sports conference option, since all schools put the conference first and work towards goals mutually agreed upon. The all-sports conference option will not be supported by Syracuse, since they value their basketball rivalries too much to cut conference ties to them, and in the long run this hurts us all. Although I think Syracuse is hoping to avoid this demise, because they expect a Big Tin lifeline to come along just when they need it most. The rest of us is not their concern...

That's the attitude I get from what I read out of Syracuse. If I'm wrong, shoot me. I'm just stating the facts as I see 'em, and that's what I've gathered from Syracuse since the Big East first formed...

You must have missed the point in my post where I mentioned that it was well documented that SU was willing to vote to leave the bb schools behind to form an allsport conference, and that WV, the program that YOU root for, along with the other fb schools voted to continue this hybrid conference. I see you never let the facts get in the way of your agenda Bit. SU only gets one vote, so they alone are not going to "hurt the conference".

Can you point me to that post? As far as I remember, ALL of the BE FB schools voted to split from the BB schools in July 2003 (the vote was 6-0) as was shown in the 'BE meeting minutes' pdf file that was floating around back then.

Or are you talking about afterwards when it was decided to stick together as was shown in the September 'BE meeting minutes'?

That article is archived somewhere on these BE boards, with the minutes of that meeting. I'm not sure where to find it. I'm sure someone can dig it up. But, in essence what had happened, was that after the acc invited Miami and VT, and SU and BC had been left out. Leaders from both programs re-affirmed their committment to the BE conference, and they had all agreed that they would split from the bb schools. When they met again to cast their votes, they learned that the other fb schools had changed their minds and were going to vote to stay aligned with the bb schools. The BC leaders used this as the impetus to beg the acc for admittance, because the "fb schools had went back on their agreement." Jake Crouthamel, who was the SU AD at the time, was so upset he said that if the fb schools did not vote to split from the bb schools that he would retire. And he did.

Ok. You are talking about what took place between July and September.

Hey Hoquista, I just edited my post with the link to some of the minutes in 2003.

While it is easy to jump on the bandwagon of "Syracuse is ruining Big East Football" they have proven...

A. They were ready and willing to leave the Big East for the ACC
B. They were ready and willing to leave the Big East Basketball Schools in 2003 for an all-sports Big East
C. They moved previously independent NC caliber Lacrosse program to help start Big East Lacrosse

Syracuse is going to do what is best for Syracuse and that is to be in a stable all-sports conference. Maybe they prefer the Big Ten, maybe they would not mind another go at the ACC, and maybe they would be in favor of an all-sports Big East but what people have to understand is adding TCU, ECU, Southern Miss, etc is a far cry from breaking away with Boston College.

You get Villanova to move up and break away with Notre Dame (minus football) in all-sports and Syracuse is going to sign off on the deal. You dump Notre Dame, Villanova does not move up, and you ask them to sign off on joining a CUSA merger and they are going to stick with the hybrid.

This may piss some people off and I do not blame you but basketball is a major sport in the northeast as is lacrosse. It might just be that as college athletics evolves Syracuse is a better fit in the ACC which is what I currently believe and the remaining Big East may be better suited dropping the name and going more with a mid-western feel which is what I believe for those schools.

You're right, dude. Basketball is the major sport in the northeast. That's part of why I think people worrying about markets in that part of the country is ludicrous. It won't do any good, even if you capture the market. A very small percentage is all you'll get...

(10-29-2010 07:46 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Hey Hoquista, I just edited my post with the link to some of the minutes in 2003.

Thanks cuseroc! I used to have both the July and September minutes and then 'lost' them when I transferred files between computers.

Bottom line:

(1) If the BE doesn't invite TCU, then the BE is stupid.

(2) If the BE does invite TCU but TCU declines, then TCU is stupid.

The tea leaves indicate that we should be much more worried about #1 than #2.

If we keep the hybred, we have 16 BB schools playing 18 games. We can effectively add 2 all sports memebers.

First is TCU.
Second is Houston. Improving in athletics and improving academics. Allows for in-state rival ala SEC for TCU.

(10-29-2010 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Bottom line:

(1) If the BE doesn't invite TCU, then the BE is stupid.

(2) If the BE does invite TCU but TCU declines, then TCU is stupid.

The tea leaves indicate that we should be much more worried about #1 than #2.

Agreed. Believe # 2 is pretty much a yes, if invited. Though TCU are probably most comfortable with their existing scenario and are not very compelled to 'lobby' for BE spot 9 or 10 at this time... considering there are most probably 2 to 3 more very feasible plots, in the works, out there right now. Don't believe either group is in
a rush... though I'm sure the Toads are flattered to be considered.

Also don't think either BE or TCU are stupid... I would use the term, a bit conservative. However, TCU may not be available to BE 3 to 6 months from now, even if they are very keen on the Big East.

(11-01-2010 08:02 PM)Horny Toad Wrote:  

(10-29-2010 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Bottom line:

(1) If the BE doesn't invite TCU, then the BE is stupid.

(2) If the BE does invite TCU but TCU declines, then TCU is stupid.

The tea leaves indicate that we should be much more worried about #1 than #2.

Agreed. Believe # 2 is pretty much a yes, if invited. Though TCU are probably most comfortable with their existing scenario and are not very compelled to 'lobby' for BE spot 9 or 10 at this time... considering there are most probably 2 to 3 more very feasible plots, in the works, out there right now. Don't believe either group is in
a rush... though I'm sure the Toads are flattered to be considered.

Also don't think either BE or TCU are stupid... I would use the term, a bit conservative. However, TCU may not be available to BE 3 to 6 months from now, even if they are very keen on the Big East.

What do you expect to happen to change things?

(11-01-2010 10:16 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 08:02 PM)Horny Toad Wrote:  

(10-29-2010 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Bottom line:

(1) If the BE doesn't invite TCU, then the BE is stupid.

(2) If the BE does invite TCU but TCU declines, then TCU is stupid.

The tea leaves indicate that we should be much more worried about #1 than #2.

Agreed. Believe # 2 is pretty much a yes, if invited. Though TCU are probably most comfortable with their existing scenario and are not very compelled to 'lobby' for BE spot 9 or 10 at this time... considering there are most probably 2 to 3 more very feasible plots, in the works, out there right now. Don't believe either group is in
a rush... though I'm sure the Toads are flattered to be considered.

Also don't think either BE or TCU are stupid... I would use the term, a bit conservative. However, TCU may not be available to BE 3 to 6 months from now, even if they are very keen on the Big East.

What do you expect to happen to change things?

My guess is UTSA turns down the WAC and they invite TCU

TCU has two options: Stay in the MWC or go to the Big East That is it...SEC, Big 12 are not coming. Nor is the ACC.

(11-01-2010 10:16 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 08:02 PM)Horny Toad Wrote:  

(10-29-2010 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Bottom line:

(1) If the BE doesn't invite TCU, then the BE is stupid.

(2) If the BE does invite TCU but TCU declines, then TCU is stupid.

The tea leaves indicate that we should be much more worried about #1 than #2.

Agreed. Believe # 2 is pretty much a yes, if invited. Though TCU are probably most comfortable with their existing scenario and are not very compelled to 'lobby' for BE spot 9 or 10 at this time... considering there are most probably 2 to 3 more very feasible plots, in the works, out there right now. Don't believe either group is in
a rush... though I'm sure the Toads are flattered to be considered.

Also don't think either BE or TCU are stupid... I would use the term, a bit conservative. However, TCU may not be available to BE 3 to 6 months from now, even if they are very keen on the Big East.

What do you expect to happen to change things?

As you've noticed the hundreds of brain or brainless storming going on...
many of these storms most probably parallel many conversations that the conferences/teams brain storm on a weekly/if not daily basis with all the paranoia and etc. So, 'for one', it's been established that the MWC and C-USA have had intial discussions(Sept) about a conference Championship game between the two leagues to 'force' a place among the 6 cartel conferences or to become an additional 7th Qualifier.

And considering the way things went this summer, things can evolve and haves evolved remarkably fast... lets not rule out that if those 2 players like this format, which I believe is still in play, these 2 leagues could take it even further down the road. But presently I'm sure they are continueing this dialog in order to insure their place during 2012 BCS evalutions. The Toads could find this a very comfortable, if not a more 'secure crib', with all the speculation on preditory poaching of top BE schools.

(11-01-2010 10:16 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 08:02 PM)Horny Toad Wrote:  

(10-29-2010 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Bottom line:

(1) If the BE doesn't invite TCU, then the BE is stupid.

(2) If the BE does invite TCU but TCU declines, then TCU is stupid.

The tea leaves indicate that we should be much more worried about #1 than #2.

Agreed. Believe # 2 is pretty much a yes, if invited. Though TCU are probably most comfortable with their existing scenario and are not very compelled to 'lobby' for BE spot 9 or 10 at this time... considering there are most probably 2 to 3 more very feasible plots, in the works, out there right now. Don't believe either group is in
a rush... though I'm sure the Toads are flattered to be considered.

Also don't think either BE or TCU are stupid... I would use the term, a bit conservative. However, TCU may not be available to BE 3 to 6 months from now, even if they are very keen on the Big East.

What do you expect to happen to change things?

'For One' the dialog(Sept) between MWC/C-USA on a Championship game has been established and this could evolve into something even 'more permenant' than just a game, to force a place among the 6 BCS cartel or to open a 7th BCS qualifier for 2012 evaluations. This 'could' be a more comforting/secure pond for the Toads, in view of the speculation of potential BE poachable teams, in expansion. Believe this format is very feasible and is still an ongoing discussion and by no means the only brainstorming venue in conversation. This is not necessarily my preference, as my feelings for the BE potential is very favorable for the Toads.