ESPN Story

New Jersey Hoops Haven blog

Some notable tidbits from the blog:

Quote:In an apparent cost-cutting move, Quinlan will not be immediately replaced. Law school dean Pat Hobbs will be overseeing the department with deputies Duane Bailey and Ginger Fulton handling day-to-day business.

Two possible long-term replacements are St. Peter’s AD Pat Elliott and MAAC commissioner Rich Ensor. Elliott is a Seton Hall grad who served as a member of P.J. Carlesimo’s staff and later was an administrator at the Hall before becoming associate AD at St. John’s.

...

On a side note, the Big East will not be pleased that Seton Hall’s AD position is going to remain vacant for an entire school year. The league already has been casting a critical eye toward the school for the Bobby Gonzalez debacle and its questionable financial commitment to athletics.

(09-26-2010 07:42 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  ESPN Story

New Jersey Hoops Haven blog

Some notable tidbits from the blog:

Quote:In an apparent cost-cutting move, Quinlan will not be immediately replaced. Law school dean Pat Hobbs will be overseeing the department with deputies Duane Bailey and Ginger Fulton handling day-to-day business.

Two possible long-term replacements are St. Peter’s AD Pat Elliott and MAAC commissioner Rich Ensor. Elliott is a Seton Hall grad who served as a member of P.J. Carlesimo’s staff and later was an administrator at the Hall before becoming associate AD at St. John’s.

...

On a side note, the Big East will not be pleased that Seton Hall’s AD position is going to remain vacant for an entire school year. The league already has been casting a critical eye toward the school for the Bobby Gonzalez debacle and its questionable financial commitment to athletics.

another Temple

Perhaps a way to add a football school and not make the basketball league any bigger?

(09-26-2010 07:42 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  On a side note, the Big East will not be pleased that Seton Hall’s AD position is going to remain vacant for an entire school year.

Georgetown's full-time AD position was vacant for a year (run through the EVP of the University) and the conference didn't seem concerned.

(09-26-2010 08:20 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Perhaps a way to add a football school and not make the basketball league any bigger?

My thoughts exactly.

I'm all in favor of kicking out Seton Hall to add a school that plays football. Do it now, do it tomorrow, do it soon. Seton Hall would be better in the MAAC or in the league with Monmouth.

(09-26-2010 08:40 PM)animus Wrote:  

(09-26-2010 08:20 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Perhaps a way to add a football school and not make the basketball league any bigger?

My thoughts exactly.

Sounds like a winner to me. Count me in...

(09-26-2010 08:20 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(09-26-2010 07:42 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  On a side note, the Big East will not be pleased that Seton Hall’s AD position is going to remain vacant for an entire school year.

Georgetown's full-time AD position was vacant for a year (run through the EVP of the University) and the conference didn't seem concerned.

Big difference between Georgetown and Seton Hall though. Georgetown is a marquee program for the conference in many of the sports not named football. Seton Hall is not a marquee program in anything. Not to say Rutgers is much better, but we pull our own weight when it comes down to it. If Nova moves up and Seton Hall left we could add ECU perhaps to keep things at 16 but be at 10 football playing members. Then if we ever decided to move to 12 we'd be looking at 18 schools overall. Much more manageable than 20 or more schools certainly.

Well you know Seton Hall wont leave on its own and I doubt the other nonfootball members would vote to send them packing. So the question become can the league convince SH to leave? doubt it

Kick them out the same way BE kicked out Temple. They just need the votes.

There are a lot of concerns when it comes to Seton Hall and its budget. I don't pay attention to the sport but to cut out its Track and Field program is a reason for concern. I mean its a minor sport but it has one of the cheaper sports to maintain. Plus most of your meets are against multiple programs. And to let the coach know its being cut out 2 hours before the press release is very shady on Seton Hall's part. The fact that the Big East has been watching this program definitely means there could be something brewing. My thoughts are that this school along with Providence probably aren't Big East caliber schools when it comes to budget's etc. Those 2 schools probably are more suited for A10, some other minor conference, or even DII. Let those 2 schools go. A 9/14 hybrid would mean a fatter paycheck when it comes to hoops because its simply less mouths to feed. Call it addition by subtraction. Cutting them both probably won't happen, but it makes a lot of sense to do so.

(09-26-2010 08:20 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Perhaps a way to add a football school and not make the basketball league any bigger?

The day the Providence Mafia (Big East HQ) ever kicks out a CATHOLIC HOOP School from the Big East...that will be the day the Big East HQ is NOT located in Providence.

It makes too much sense...which is why it probably will never happen.

Seton Hall is a founding member of The Big East. I would hope that more than a simple vote would be needed to kick anyone out. It would probably be something that took place over time with financial and attendance goals that would have to be met. Failure to do so would result in being asked to leave like Temple. I just have a difficult time believing The Big East would ever simply just kick a program out.
CJ

Seton Hall already has the lowest Athletic Budget of any Big East program ($17.2 Million)...and having some Law School Dean oversee athletics this year because the school needs to save $$$$ shows you the deep trouble Seton Hall is in today.

See link to see Big East Athletic Budgets per school plus those from other BCS Conf:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/publ...a+la+carte

Three things:

1) Seton Hall leaving the Big East voluntarily is a fantasy. Would Seton Hall be much more competitive in a conference like America East, the A-10, or the MAAC? Absolutely. Travel costs would be much lower and their focus/commitment to athletics would match the other schools in the conference. Would Seton Hall walk away from all the exposure and money it receives as a Big East member? Not in a heartbeat. Seton Hall's administration may not care much about its athletic department but I guarantee it cares about the 6 figure paycheck and national exposure it receives as a member of the Big East. Joining the A-10 would be a good move from a competitive standpoint, but from a logical, financial, or exposure standpoint, it would be equivalent to suicide.

2) Seton Hall being voted out of the Big East is also unrealistic. People need to remember that Seton Hall is a founding member of the conference and has strong ties with many of the catholic hoops programs in the conference. Why would the catholic schools vote out one of their own in favor of a football school? Not only do they lose equal status in the conference but such a move would make the other hoops schools nervous about when the axe would fall on them.

3) Let's say Seton Hall does leave. Does anyone here think the hoops schools are going to push for a public football schools (Temple, ECU, UCF, etc) or do you think they'd push for a Catholic hoops replacement (Xavier, Dayton, etc).

I agree on 1 and 2. As for #3 I think things have changed a lot for these schools in a short period of time. They know that football drives the bus and this hybrid thing could be very very strong and unique for us if we want it to be. If SHU left they'd allow in a public 1-A school because the more stable and successful the football side of things is the more successful the whole conference is. When you can couple football stability and success with our basketball pedigree we can really be the player we should be and that protects Marquette, Georgetown, DePaul, St. John's and Providence even more so. I have a feeling Seton Hall will eventually end up leaving out of financial necessity and go to an America East, MAAC or Northeastern Conference and sponsor the bare minimum number of sports and scholarships to be Division 1 and compliant with Title IX.

Conference members should be able to compete, and if they can't make the kind of commitment needed to compete, they aren't worthy to be in the conference. I could care less if Seton Hall is a founding member of The BEast. If they aren't willing to put forth the effort, they need to be gone. Same with DePaul, or anyone else that can be eliminated to bolster the football side of things...

Of course, if The BEast isn't willing to make that compromise, we can always split and go our separate ways...

I don't think that Seton Hall would leave the Big East for another Division I conference, but would drop out of Division I and move to Division III. As things are, they already sponsor the minimum number of sports for Division I. I would also wager that some of those sports aren't fully funded.

The only way the Big East would kick out Seton Hall is if the Big East instituted minimal standards for membership, and Seton Hall continually missed these standards and essentially ignored them. Even then, it would probably still be a close vote.

I'm curious to see who is hired as President and Athletic Director at SH, and if there is a trend towards de-emphasizing athletics.

Please note that the Temple situation is MUCH different than what the BE would be dealing with for any of its current members. Temple was a football-only member and it failed to meet its requirements for that one particular sport, so it was axed on those grounds with relative ease. In contrast, Seton Hall (and DePaul, Providence, St. John's, etc.) are NOT men's basketball-only members, so they are not judged on that one sport. Instead, they are full members of the conference that do not have football programs and, as a result, are going to be looked as complete athletic programs and institutions.

At the same time, it's the "do unto others as they do unto you" principle here. None of the other non-football Catholic schools are going to participate in voting out a fellow Catholic member when they would set a precedent for being on the chopping block themselves later on if they have a few down years in basketball. Always remember that these schools do not have a "what have you done for me lately on the court" mentality - there are political (as in internal dealings with each other) and institutional connections that go way beyond whether Seton Hall or any other school has made the NCAA Tournament lately. Even beyond the Catholic connections, schools such as Syracuse and UCONN have much longer and stronger institutional relationships with the Seton Halls and Providences of the world than most of the football members. It would be one thing if kicking schools out would all of the sudden make Penn State and Maryland want to join the BE, but that's not happening. So, they're not throwing Seton Hall under the bus so that they can add any of the usual C-USA suspects.

Outside of the "associate member" status situations like Temple, schools simply don't get kicked out of conferences. There might be splits of groups (a la the MWC being formed out of splits from the WAC) and schools leaving for other conferences that trigger realignments elsewhere, but conferences affirmatively kicking members out based on poor performance simply doesn't happen. It's a complete waste of time to speculate otherwise.

(09-27-2010 01:53 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  ...but conferences affirmatively kicking members out based on poor performance simply doesn't happen. It's a complete waste of time to speculate otherwise.

I agree completely. It wouldn't surprise me on the other hand if they begrudgingly had to downgrade to a lower Division I league or more likely Division III. I say this because as an institution they just aren't doing that well financially, its not just the athletic department. Combine that with just overall crappy performance in the Big East and it could be that they might deemphasize athletics in the near future.