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This sums up the Obama Presidency
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Chipdip Offline
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Post: #21
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
Quote:Most of the points are so stupid they are not worth the time to talk about

So you have an opinion, good. How bout pointing out ONE OR TWO of his stupid points, and giving some tangible evidence to the contrary.
08-17-2010 09:17 AM
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MmphsBronco Offline
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Post: #22
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
In reading the article/blog/opinion, the guy made his points and backed it up with solid data and facts...and some opinion.

To ignore the failings of the president along with the congress is to stick your head in the sand. Did they inherit a bad situation? Yes! Is this Bush's fault? Perhaps some, but the article and discussion are not about Bush. It is about Obama and his failings. Be a democrate, republican, tea partier, or independent, one cannot ignore the fact that this president is not performing up to the task that is required.

Has Obama and congress followed the will of the people on the big issues of universal health care and the AZ imigration issue. He!! no! Is this a problem? He!! yes!
08-17-2010 09:50 AM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #23
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
We still refer to the "recession of 82" as a benchmark, so is that Reagon's fault? He was in office for two years.
08-17-2010 09:55 AM
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MmphsBronco Offline
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RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
The article/blog/opinion only mentioned the economy in one of 19 total paragraphs. In addition, the economy was NOT one of his 10 points as to why the Obama administration is failing. To recap, the 10 points are:

1. The Obama presidency is out of touch with the American people
2. Most Americans don’t have confidence in the president’s leadership
3. Obama fails to inspire
4. The United States is drowning in debt
5. Obama’s Big Government message is falling flat
6. Obama’s support for socialised health care is a huge political mistake
7. Obama’s handling of the Gulf oil spill has been weak-kneed and indecisive
8. US foreign policy is an embarrassing mess under the Obama administration
9. President Obama is muddled and confused on national security
10. Obama doesn’t believe in American greatness

One can choose to blindly follow their leader. In some respects this is an admirable quality. When the time comes, I will choose to cast my vote for change and hope for the better.
08-17-2010 10:07 AM
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Chipdip Offline
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Post: #25
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
Reagan cut taxes that led to reduced unemployment, and an economy growing at unheard of rates.

Obama spent 850 billion, and it's led to more unemployment, more debt, and growth rates that are so small we're not adding to the job base, but likely losing more jobs and heading for a double dip recession.
08-17-2010 10:07 AM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #26
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
1. The Obama presidency is out of touch with the American people

In a previous post I noted how the Obama presidency increasingly resembles a modern-day Ancien Régime, extravagant, decaying and out of touch with ordinary Americans. The First Lady’s ill-conceived trip to Spain at a time of widespread economic hardship was symbolic of a White House that barely gives a second thought to public opinion on many issues, and frequently projects a distinctly elitist image. The “let them eat cake” approach didn’t play well over two centuries ago, and it won’t succeed today.

Reply: I don't agree with that assessment or the supporting analogy of the Spain trip. Nothing factual here.

2. Most Americans don’t have confidence in the president’s leadership

This deficit of trust in Obama’s leadership is central to his decline. According to a recent Washington Post/ABC News poll, “nearly six in ten voters say they lack faith in the president to make the right decisions for the country”, and two thirds “say they are disillusioned with or angry about the way the federal government is working.” The poll showed that a staggering 58 per cent of Americans say they do not have confidence in the president’s decision-making, with just 42 per cent saying they do.

Reply: Polls aren't gospel, and they reflect the mood of the country at the time and are subject to change. See: "Dumbya's ratings early in his term".

3. Obama fails to inspire

In contrast to the soaring rhetoric of his 2004 Convention speech in Boston which succeeded in impressing millions of television viewers at the time, America is no longer inspired by Barack Obama’s flat, monotonous and often dull presidential speeches and statements delivered via teleprompter. From his extraordinarily uninspiring Afghanistan speech at West Point to his flat State of the Union address, President Obama has failed to touch the heart of America. Even Jimmy Carter was more moving.

Reply: Wow, another hard and fast metric to base a conclusion upon, this guy is amazing!!!

4. The United States is drowning in debt

The Congressional Budget Office Long-Term Budget Outlook offers a frightening picture of the scale of America’s national debt. Under its alternative fiscal scenario, the CBO projects that US debt could rise to 87 percent of GDP by 2020, 109 percent by 2025, and 185 percent in 2035. While much of Europe, led by Britain and Germany, are aggressively cutting their deficits, the Obama administration is actively growing America’s debt, and has no plan in place to avert a looming Greek-style financial crisis.

Reply: Subjective conclusion from a guy who clearly desires to go back to the methods that brought us into the financial meltdown of 2008, including tax cuts for the rich. No regard given to the mess handed to him and allowed/promoted to take place by his predecessor.

5. Obama’s Big Government message is falling flat

The relentless emphasis on bailouts and stimulus spending has done little to spur economic growth or create jobs, but has greatly advanced the power of the federal government in America. This is not an approach that is proving popular with the American public, and even most European governments have long ditched this tax and spend approach to saving their own economies.

Reply: Who knows how little it's done? I'd argue that not enough immediate liquidity was injected into the economy when we needed it most. Nothing concrete here.

6. Obama’s support for socialised health care is a huge political mistake

In an extraordinary act of political Harakiri, President Obama leant his full support to the hugely controversial, unpopular and divisive health care reform bill, with a monstrous price tag of $940 billion, whose repeal is now supported by 55 per cent of likely US voters. As I wrote at the time of its passing, the legislation is “a great leap forward by the United States towards a European-style vision of universal health care, which will only lead to soaring costs, higher taxes, and a surge in red tape for small businesses. This reckless legislation dramatically expands the power of the state over the lives of individuals, and could not be further from the vision of America’s founding fathers.”

Reply: He ran and got elected with this as part of his platform. Hardly a mistake doing what you said you would do in your campaign promise. I wasn't for it, but I don't see it as a mistake. I see it as spin by the sniveling right.

7. Obama’s handling of the Gulf oil spill has been weak-kneed and indecisive

While much of the spilled oil in the Gulf has now been thankfully cleared up, the political damage for the White House will be long-lasting. Instead of showing real leadership on the matter by acing decisively and drawing upon offers of international support, the Obama administration settled on a more convenient strategy of relentlessly bashing an Anglo-American company while largely sitting on its hands. Significantly, a poll of Louisiana voters gave George W. Bush higher marks for his handling of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, with 62 percent disapproving of Obama’s performance on the Gulf oil spill.

Reply: Oil Spill <> Katrina where human lives were in immediate peril, plus I'd say his handling of BP and making them accountable has worked out well, right down to demanding they conduct and manage the cleanup efforts.

8. US foreign policy is an embarrassing mess under the Obama administration

It is hard to think of a single foreign policy success for the Obama administration, but there have been plenty of missteps which have weakened American global power as well as the standing of the United States. The surrender to Moscow on Third Site missile defence, the failure to aggressively stand up to Iran’s nuclear programme, the decision to side with ousted Marxists in Honduras, the slap in the face for Great Britain over the Falklands, have all contributed to the image of a US administration completely out of its depth in international affairs. The Obama administration’s high risk strategy of appeasing America’s enemies while kicking traditional US allies has only succeeded in weakening the United States while strengthening her adversaries.

Reply: Yeah, and it was following up a tough act in Dumbya's foreign policy, at least he hasn't invaded the wrong country...........yet.

9. President Obama is muddled and confused on national security

From the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to the War on Terror, President Obama’s leadership has often been muddled and confused. On Afghanistan he rightly sent tens of thousands of additional troops to the battlefield. At the same time however he bizarrely announced a timetable for the withdrawal of US forces beginning in July 2011, handing the initiative to the Taliban. On Iraq he has announced an end to combat operations and the withdrawal of all but 50,000 troops despite a recent upsurge in terrorist violence and political instability, and without the Iraqi military and police ready to take over. In addition he has ditched the concept of a War on Terror, replacing it with an Overseas Contingency Operation, hardly the right message to send in the midst of a long-war against Al-Qaeda.

Reply: We're pulling out of Iraq, and ramping up in the correct country, albeit nine years too late.

10. Obama doesn’t believe in American greatness

Barack Obama has made it clear that he doesn’t believe in American exceptionalism, and has made apologising for his country into an art form. In a speech to the United Nations last September he stated that “no one nation can or should try to dominate another nation. No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed. No balance of power among nations will hold.” It is difficult to see how a US president who holds these views and does not even accept America’s greatness in history can actually lead the world’s only superpower with force and conviction.

There is a distinctly Titanic-like feel to the Obama presidency and it’s not hard to see why. The most left-wing president in modern American history has tried to force a highly interventionist, government-driven agenda that runs counter to the principles of free enterprise, individual freedom, and limited government that have made the United States the greatest power in the world, and the freest nation on earth.

This, combined with weak leadership both at home and abroad against the backdrop of tremendous economic uncertainty in an increasingly dangerous world, has contributed to a spectacular political collapse for a president once thought to be invincible. America at its core remains a deeply conservative nation, which cherishes its traditions and founding principles. President Obama is increasingly out of step with the American people, by advancing policies that undermine the United States as a global power, while undercutting America’s deep-seated love for freedom.

Reply: Yes he does. How else could a black man elected president feel about "American Greatness"? Seriously, this is a pie in the sky op-ed that has NO FACTS sans the poll figures. 03-melodramatic

Hardly debating points or "FACTS".
08-17-2010 10:20 AM
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MmphsBronco Offline
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Post: #27
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
I admire your willingness to stick by your man. Loyalty is an admirable quality.
08-17-2010 10:30 AM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #28
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
I'm following the great model of loyalty provided by you and Dip during Dumbya's eight years. 03-melodramatic

Seriously, you DO KNOW I didn't vote for BHO. My point is here, that the total flat out myopic hatred of him is making people feel that their dislike of anything about him, are facts and there is no way anyone can counter their opinions with their own. It's getting to be reverse of the months after 9/11 when people looked at you sideways for saying anything negative about Bush.

Newsflash girls, it's not so cut and dry.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2010 10:45 AM by DesertBronco.)
08-17-2010 10:44 AM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #29
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
(08-17-2010 10:07 AM)Chipdip Wrote:  Reagan cut taxes that led to reduced unemployment, and an economy growing at unheard of rates.

Obama spent 850 billion, and it's led to more unemployment, more debt, and growth rates that are so small we're not adding to the job base, but likely losing more jobs and heading for a double dip recession.

That doesn't answer the question, who owned the recession of 1982?
08-17-2010 10:45 AM
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Chipdip Offline
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Post: #30
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
He owned the recession at some point in his first two years. The difference is he implemented policies that got us out of it. He implemented policies that spurred investment.

It comes down to do you believe in Keynesian economics (spend your way out of economic despair), or do you believe that cutting taxes and unneeded government regulation is a key to growth.

Obama is trying to spend us to prosperity and it's not working, and on top of that it's giving us debt like we've never seen. Obama has implemented policies that forced small business to hunker down and not hire. NUMEROUS Polls say that the American people aren't buying his leadership in terms of the economy.

Quote:See: "Dumbya's ratings early in his term".
It took Bush 6 1/2 years before his numbers plummeted to the level of Obamas. Took Obama less than two. You don't think that's a problem for him?
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2010 11:00 AM by Chipdip.)
08-17-2010 10:53 AM
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bronco74 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
(08-17-2010 10:45 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  
(08-17-2010 10:07 AM)Chipdip Wrote:  Reagan cut taxes that led to reduced unemployment, and an economy growing at unheard of rates.

Obama spent 850 billion, and it's led to more unemployment, more debt, and growth rates that are so small we're not adding to the job base, but likely losing more jobs and heading for a double dip recession.

That doesn't answer the question, who owned the recession of 1982?

When you become President you own everything. I never heard Reagan use Carter in campaign speeches as your man BHO is doing with Bush, that inspires leadership. Yes, after almost two years you and BHO are still blaming Bush. Reagan ended the recession where as BHO is prolonging it.

I thought Bush was spending money like a drunken sailor, however, BHO is making him look like Scrooge.

And you are still pining for Gore.
08-17-2010 11:04 AM
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MmphsBronco Offline
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Post: #32
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
I strongly disagree with Obama's big government policies, socialism leaning direction, and the actions/inactions he has taken as president. I don't hate him personally.

I suppose that most of us find it appalling when others disagree with our point of view. Others find it odd when someone will defend a position or a person just for the sake of argument. Experience tells me that when people are in this mindset no matter the quality of facts or how compelling your argument is the other person sticks to their position. Perhaps I fall into this category.
08-17-2010 11:11 AM
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Chipdip Offline
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Post: #33
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
I think you miss the whole premise of his article. It's not whether his policies will work, it's ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE LOSING CONFIDENCE IN HIM BECAUSE OF HIS POLICIES.

4. The United States is drowning in debt

DB
Quote:Reply: Subjective conclusion from a guy who clearly desires to go back to the methods that brought us into the financial meltdown of 2008, including tax cuts for the rich. No regard given to the mess handed to him and allowed/promoted to take place by his predecessor.

So we're not drowning in debt? We're not spending more? We're not creating enormously expensive entitlements? We're not continuing to spend on wars that he said we needed to get out of?

5. Obama’s Big Government message is falling flat


DB
Quote:Reply: Who knows how little it's done? I'd argue that not enough immediate liquidity was injected into the economy when we needed it most. Nothing concrete here.
Nothing concrete? His point is spending like a mad man, stimulus upon stimulus, bail outs etc., is not playing with the vast majority of Americans. It's not about whether those policies MAY WORK DOWN THE ROAD. And there's NOTHING CONCRETE in speculating that they might work in the future. It ain't playing with the people.

6. Obama’s support for socialised health care is a huge political mistake

Quote:Reply: He ran and got elected with this as part of his platform. Hardly a mistake doing what you said you would do in your campaign promise. I wasn't for it, but I don't see it as a mistake. I see it as spin by the sniveling right.

Yeah, he also ran on transparency, he ran on getting along with the other side. The details of it had to be snuffed out by the media, and it was rammed through in spite of polls and constituents running 60-40 against it. That's fine, he'll pay in November and he'll pay in 2012, and it will likely be repealed. And I love how you weren't for it, but anyone besides you who is against is a member of the sniveling right.
08-17-2010 11:14 AM
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Dirty Ernie Offline
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Post: #34
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
4. Drowning in debt.
Anything you think about has to be tempered by its opposite. Yes, Obama did continue the Bush response of a huge financial bailout. How could he not? Yes, he did rescue GM and Chrysler. Yes, he did approve continuing teacher and cop supplements, and unemployment.

So the opposite might have been a return to 1930's style depression. A total collapse of the economy. I bet you guys would really have loved THAT scenario! GM and Chrysler out of business. Wall Street boarded up and out of business. 150,000,000 million American's living on whatever they can hunt down in the woods or fetch out of burned out grocery warehouses. Yummy.

The admin has now publicly stated it is time to tighten our belts and pay down the deficit. Are you guys ready to pay up now? And do what is needed to reduce the deficit? Not likely.

5. Big government. What a joke. Contrast all the hoopla about the Gulf. Send in a million people to clean it up? on the government parole? directed by government bureaucrats? I don't think so. But that's what the right was calling for. A BiG GovErnMent ReSponse. Thank you Mr. President for keeping control of your emotions and avoiding overly interfering in BIG BUSINESSES mess.

Health care. What a joke. So it is governments fault privately directed health care has been running at 15-20% inflation levels for the last couple of decades. And now people wonder why they can't afford health care? and why Medicare is in trouble? Give me a break.
08-17-2010 12:23 PM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #35
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
All of his points sans the poll numbers are conjecture, but I can see where YOU might say they were concrete, they're aligned with your thinking.

Cases in point....

Quote:So we're not drowning in debt? We're not spending more? We're not creating enormously expensive entitlements? We're not continuing to spend on wars that he said we needed to get out of?

Define drowning in debt. We spent more each of the last ten years, that wasn't an issue then, just where the money is going is an issue for you now. It went to invasions of wrong countries in terms of trillions of dollars, bailouts of Wall Street to the terms of BILLIONS of more dollars propping up the people who dismantled our economic system. Iraq was a boondoggle, but that's ok, now that we focus on the real enemy that we should have all along, you point out that the money spent there is wrong? REALLY?

Quote:His point is spending like a mad man, stimulus upon stimulus, bail outs etc.,

Again, solid stuff there, you're a regular factoid Fred. 03-melodramatic

Quote:Yeah, he also ran on transparency, he ran on getting along with the other side. The details of it had to be snuffed out by the media, and it was rammed through in spite of polls and constituents running 60-40 against it. That's fine, he'll pay in November and he'll pay in 2012, and it will likely be repealed. And I love how you weren't for it, but anyone besides you who is against is a member of the sniveling right.

He got elected with that as a major point of his platform. You seriously expected him to listen to samples of people in polls and reverse his direction? Get over yourselfs, polls aren't the be all end all, we learned that in 2000, right? 01-wingedeagle.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2010 01:30 PM by DesertBronco.)
08-17-2010 01:29 PM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #36
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
(08-17-2010 11:04 AM)bronco74 Wrote:  
(08-17-2010 10:45 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  
(08-17-2010 10:07 AM)Chipdip Wrote:  Reagan cut taxes that led to reduced unemployment, and an economy growing at unheard of rates.

Obama spent 850 billion, and it's led to more unemployment, more debt, and growth rates that are so small we're not adding to the job base, but likely losing more jobs and heading for a double dip recession.

That doesn't answer the question, who owned the recession of 1982?

When you become President you own everything. I never heard Reagan use Carter in campaign speeches as your man BHO is doing with Bush, that inspires leadership. Yes, after almost two years you and BHO are still blaming Bush. Reagan ended the recession where as BHO is prolonging it.

I thought Bush was spending money like a drunken sailor, however, BHO is making him look like Scrooge.

And you are still pining for Gore.

You must not have been paying attention in 1984 when he ran against Mondale then, he blamed Carter on many occasions.

This from RR's 1982 state of the union address...

Quote:"To understand the State of the Union, we must look not only at where we are and where we're going, but where we've been. The situation at this time last year was truly ominous."

He blamed everything on liberals and indirectly Carter.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2010 02:16 PM by DesertBronco.)
08-17-2010 01:31 PM
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DesertBronco Offline
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Post: #37
RE: This sums up the Obama Presidency
(08-17-2010 10:53 AM)Chipdip Wrote:  He owned the recession at some point in his first two years. The difference is he implemented policies that got us out of it. He implemented policies that spurred investment.

It comes down to do you believe in Keynesian economics (spend your way out of economic despair), or do you believe that cutting taxes and unneeded government regulation is a key to growth.

Obama is trying to spend us to prosperity and it's not working, and on top of that it's giving us debt like we've never seen. Obama has implemented policies that forced small business to hunker down and not hire. NUMEROUS Polls say that the American people aren't buying his leadership in terms of the economy.

Quote:See: "Dumbya's ratings early in his term".
It took Bush 6 1/2 years before his numbers plummeted to the level of Obamas. Took Obama less than two. You don't think that's a problem for him?

Point was Sam Drucker, Dumbya's ratings were RECORD HIGH then, and it turned out they didn't mean a thing. BHO got elected pretty much because Dumbya was such a failure.

Again, your cutting tax analogy is a simplistic view, shouldn't surprise me. Buuuuut, since we're being so simple here, I'll join in, we cut taxes in 2002, and had a collapse in 2008. So that's the way you want to go again now? 01-wingedeagle

Fact is, the TRA of 1986 turned out to be one of the largest vehicles of increasing taxes in history through corporate taxe increases of $120 Billion and closing loopholes which amounted to triple that. This whole RR cutting taxes thing is a myth, plus he rolled back his tax cuts earlier in his term. I get tired of those old myths being thrown around like they were factual.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2010 02:11 PM by DesertBronco.)
08-17-2010 01:33 PM
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