The MWC could lose Utah to the Pac-10 and Air Force and BYU to the Big 12 so TCU could push for a Big East invite. They would get us into Texas and would get as a national power program. I doubt that Patteron would go anywhere. I like UCF, but TCU brings the same thing to the table except their football is stronger and they bring a new markets.

(06-15-2010 08:20 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:10 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:04 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 07:54 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 07:06 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 06:59 AM)SmokinPirate Wrote:  I love it. BE fans say ECU isn't in the BE footprint but yet they venture out to TX and say TCU fits well. Boy, no wonder the BE is in the situation it's in.

TCU is a top five, top ten team yearly in a huge market, and also in a prime recruiting state. Prior to the Big XII forming they were a "BCS" level school in the southwest conference long before there was a BCS. These things may help you understand why they would get consideration before ECU.

Any ECU fan that does not understand your point is not being realistic. Of course TCU has a superior program. In fact I would submit that in football it has been superior to the vast majority BE programs over the past few seasons. If the BE is going to expand into a western division..I would contend that TCU would be the lynch pin of such a plan. That does not look to be the case at this time. So the question is....Is the Texas market more important than finding a good solid member regionally that is not likely to jump ship the next time a realignment move comes available and can grow with the conference... If the former is the answer...then TCU is a winner IMO.

We don't know whether a western division is being considered or not in the Big East. Last week it certainly appears that it was. Even if one makes the assumption that only southern eastern teams would be considered, ECU isn't going to meet the needs of the league.

I make no assumptions at all at to what the BE will do. I do wonder however where the teams are that the BE could bring in from the west that would make a division. I have no misconceptions at all that ECU will be considered. Never have. I didnt even mention ECU in my post as being considered.

If they chose to do it, several teams from the west could be brought in that have had successful football at times, and some that have had decent basketball as well.

SMU and Tulsa are two tier 1 institutions in the vicinity
Houston is top 25 football and has had great bb as well

there are others as well, but there doesn't necessarily have to be a western division at all. USF has operated on an island and seems content.

SMU and Tulsa??? PLEASE take them. Sick of playing all of the schools from the west anyway. The majority of the teams in the west are garbage in football - Rice/SMU/Tulane et al. Buckaineer I love reading your posts - your campaign against ECU is hilarious. I'm guessing some ECU fan got you all riled up after we CRUSHED your team 24-3 on national TV and your Heisman hopeful QB was shut down.

(06-15-2010 06:59 AM)SmokinPirate Wrote:  I love it. BE fans say ECU isn't in the BE footprint but yet they venture out to TX and say TCU fits well. Boy, no wonder the BE is in the situation it's in.

Last I checked Big East fans didn't control expansion.

(06-15-2010 08:34 AM)PirateHeist Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:20 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:10 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:04 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 07:54 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 07:06 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 06:59 AM)SmokinPirate Wrote:  I love it. BE fans say ECU isn't in the BE footprint but yet they venture out to TX and say TCU fits well. Boy, no wonder the BE is in the situation it's in.

TCU is a top five, top ten team yearly in a huge market, and also in a prime recruiting state. Prior to the Big XII forming they were a "BCS" level school in the southwest conference long before there was a BCS. These things may help you understand why they would get consideration before ECU.

Any ECU fan that does not understand your point is not being realistic. Of course TCU has a superior program. In fact I would submit that in football it has been superior to the vast majority BE programs over the past few seasons. If the BE is going to expand into a western division..I would contend that TCU would be the lynch pin of such a plan. That does not look to be the case at this time. So the question is....Is the Texas market more important than finding a good solid member regionally that is not likely to jump ship the next time a realignment move comes available and can grow with the conference... If the former is the answer...then TCU is a winner IMO.

We don't know whether a western division is being considered or not in the Big East. Last week it certainly appears that it was. Even if one makes the assumption that only southern eastern teams would be considered, ECU isn't going to meet the needs of the league.

I make no assumptions at all at to what the BE will do. I do wonder however where the teams are that the BE could bring in from the west that would make a division. I have no misconceptions at all that ECU will be considered. Never have. I didnt even mention ECU in my post as being considered.

If they chose to do it, several teams from the west could be brought in that have had successful football at times, and some that have had decent basketball as well.

SMU and Tulsa are two tier 1 institutions in the vicinity
Houston is top 25 football and has had great bb as well

there are others as well, but there doesn't necessarily have to be a western division at all. USF has operated on an island and seems content.

SMU and Tulsa??? PLEASE take them. Sick of playing all of the schools from the west anyway. The majority of the teams in the west are garbage in football - Rice/SMU/Tulane et al. Buckaineer I love reading your posts - your campaign against ECU is hilarious. I'm guessing some ECU fan got you all riled up after we CRUSHED your team 24-3 on national TV and your Heisman hopeful QB was shut down.

No, I think it was the three wins out of 21 or so over the years with the average score being a Mountaineer beatdown by more than two scores that got me bored with ECU. I've grown tired of hearing how you thought you were the best thing ever
and would have saved the Big East because you get 40,000 fans in your stands.

ECU threw themselves begging at the feet of the Big East a few years ago and the league didn't even blink--that should tell you the value your school brings.

(06-15-2010 08:38 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:34 AM)PirateHeist Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:20 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:10 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:04 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 07:54 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 07:06 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 06:59 AM)SmokinPirate Wrote:  I love it. BE fans say ECU isn't in the BE footprint but yet they venture out to TX and say TCU fits well. Boy, no wonder the BE is in the situation it's in.

TCU is a top five, top ten team yearly in a huge market, and also in a prime recruiting state. Prior to the Big XII forming they were a "BCS" level school in the southwest conference long before there was a BCS. These things may help you understand why they would get consideration before ECU.

Any ECU fan that does not understand your point is not being realistic. Of course TCU has a superior program. In fact I would submit that in football it has been superior to the vast majority BE programs over the past few seasons. If the BE is going to expand into a western division..I would contend that TCU would be the lynch pin of such a plan. That does not look to be the case at this time. So the question is....Is the Texas market more important than finding a good solid member regionally that is not likely to jump ship the next time a realignment move comes available and can grow with the conference... If the former is the answer...then TCU is a winner IMO.

We don't know whether a western division is being considered or not in the Big East. Last week it certainly appears that it was. Even if one makes the assumption that only southern eastern teams would be considered, ECU isn't going to meet the needs of the league.

I make no assumptions at all at to what the BE will do. I do wonder however where the teams are that the BE could bring in from the west that would make a division. I have no misconceptions at all that ECU will be considered. Never have. I didnt even mention ECU in my post as being considered.

If they chose to do it, several teams from the west could be brought in that have had successful football at times, and some that have had decent basketball as well.

SMU and Tulsa are two tier 1 institutions in the vicinity
Houston is top 25 football and has had great bb as well

there are others as well, but there doesn't necessarily have to be a western division at all. USF has operated on an island and seems content.

SMU and Tulsa??? PLEASE take them. Sick of playing all of the schools from the west anyway. The majority of the teams in the west are garbage in football - Rice/SMU/Tulane et al. Buckaineer I love reading your posts - your campaign against ECU is hilarious. I'm guessing some ECU fan got you all riled up after we CRUSHED your team 24-3 on national TV and your Heisman hopeful QB was shut down.

No, I think it was the three wins out of 21 or so over the years with the average score being a Mountaineer beatdown by more than two scores that got me bored with ECU. I've grown tired of hearing how you thought you were the best thing ever
and would have saved the Big East because you get 40,000 fans in your stands.

ECU threw themselves begging at the feet of the Big East a few years ago and the league didn't even blink--that should tell you the value your school brings.

WVU is far superior program to ECU....That is not even a debatable topic. As usual these discussions always end up ugly instead of offering civil debate. I think I will bounce off this now.

(06-15-2010 08:21 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Houston was top 25 and UCF and ECU both beat them last year.

What Luck and Tagliabue need to do is put their NFL/TV experience to work and come up with a plan to expand revenues significantly in the huge markets that the BEAST sits in. Get hard numbers to present to these 3 schools: BC, Maryland, and UCF in that order. MAKE a BEAST network viable (it should be given the hoops domination and the very strong non-revenue sports in the BEAST to go along with football).

IMHO, BC would not have gone to the ACC if they had known the bEAST would survive and do so well at BCS level. They are not treated all that well by the ACC and if we can show the numbers are there and everyone agrees to stay and build the league, then I think they can be brought back. They were a charter member remember.

Maryland is another ACC school who sux hind teet in that league and has no rivals despite playing in that league since the beginning. They actually have a better rivalry with WVU than with any other school they play. they sit in the DC market which a guy like Tags can exploit if he is given an opportunity. Georgetown IS an issue, but the league is at stake now.

Finally, UCF is the only up and comer worth taking a flier on. Their football program is on the rise. They just hired a very good hoops coach. They have new on campus arena and football stadium. they have 50,000 students. They are in Orlando, home of 2 bowl games. They give e very BEAST football team a trip to Florida every year. If there is one team out there in the BEAST footprintthat is worth taking a chance on it is them.

Finally, get at least a scheduling agreement with teeth with ND. Get them to use their clout with NBC/Comcast to include BEAST teams in the tv package.

This is a lot of work to do. Unfortunately the league office isn't really up to the job IMHO. Fortunately, we now have at least 2 people in the BEAST who are - Tags and Oliver Luck. If there is indeed a bit of a lull here in conference expansion, we may have enough time to put something together.

The time to act is now.

(06-15-2010 08:38 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:34 AM)PirateHeist Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:20 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:10 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:04 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 07:54 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 07:06 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 06:59 AM)SmokinPirate Wrote:  I love it. BE fans say ECU isn't in the BE footprint but yet they venture out to TX and say TCU fits well. Boy, no wonder the BE is in the situation it's in.

TCU is a top five, top ten team yearly in a huge market, and also in a prime recruiting state. Prior to the Big XII forming they were a "BCS" level school in the southwest conference long before there was a BCS. These things may help you understand why they would get consideration before ECU.

Any ECU fan that does not understand your point is not being realistic. Of course TCU has a superior program. In fact I would submit that in football it has been superior to the vast majority BE programs over the past few seasons. If the BE is going to expand into a western division..I would contend that TCU would be the lynch pin of such a plan. That does not look to be the case at this time. So the question is....Is the Texas market more important than finding a good solid member regionally that is not likely to jump ship the next time a realignment move comes available and can grow with the conference... If the former is the answer...then TCU is a winner IMO.

We don't know whether a western division is being considered or not in the Big East. Last week it certainly appears that it was. Even if one makes the assumption that only southern eastern teams would be considered, ECU isn't going to meet the needs of the league.

I make no assumptions at all at to what the BE will do. I do wonder however where the teams are that the BE could bring in from the west that would make a division. I have no misconceptions at all that ECU will be considered. Never have. I didnt even mention ECU in my post as being considered.

If they chose to do it, several teams from the west could be brought in that have had successful football at times, and some that have had decent basketball as well.

SMU and Tulsa are two tier 1 institutions in the vicinity
Houston is top 25 football and has had great bb as well

there are others as well, but there doesn't necessarily have to be a western division at all. USF has operated on an island and seems content.

SMU and Tulsa??? PLEASE take them. Sick of playing all of the schools from the west anyway. The majority of the teams in the west are garbage in football - Rice/SMU/Tulane et al. Buckaineer I love reading your posts - your campaign against ECU is hilarious. I'm guessing some ECU fan got you all riled up after we CRUSHED your team 24-3 on national TV and your Heisman hopeful QB was shut down.

No, I think it was the three wins out of 21 or so over the years with the average score being a Mountaineer beatdown by more than two scores that got me bored with ECU. I've grown tired of hearing how you thought you were the best thing ever
and would have saved the Big East because you get 40,000 fans in your stands.

ECU threw themselves begging at the feet of the Big East a few years ago and the league didn't even blink--that should tell you the value your school brings.

Value = subjective. Begging isn't any worse than whoring, which is what Memphis has been doing. In fact I'd venture to say that earning your way as you go is worth more than buying your way. No one said we would save the BE - just that we would be a good fit and would put a competitive product on the field. I doubt Memphis will put a competitive product on the field. If the BE wants football schools on the east coast, it should be UCF (for potential) or ECU.

It's hard for our fans because we have built from the ground up - whereas schools like USF and UCF are brand new schools who have done nothing to earn it on the field. But, college football is not about merit so it really doesn't matter...

(06-15-2010 08:47 AM)juveeer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:21 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Houston was top 25 and UCF and ECU both beat them last year.

What Luck and Tagliabue need to do is put their NFL/TV experience to work and come up with a plan to expand revenues significantly in the huge markets that the BEAST sits in. Get hard numbers to present to these 3 schools: BC, Maryland, and UCF in that order. MAKE a BEAST network viable (it should be given the hoops domination and the very strong non-revenue sports in the BEAST to go along with football).

IMHO, BC would not have gone to the ACC if they had known the bEAST would survive and do so well at BCS level. They are not treated all that well by the ACC and if we can show the numbers are there and everyone agrees to stay and build the league, then I think they can be brought back. They were a charter member remember.

Maryland is another ACC school who sux hind teet in that league and has no rivals despite playing in that league since the beginning. They actually have a better rivalry with WVU than with any other school they play. they sit in the DC market which a guy like Tags can exploit if he is given an opportunity. Georgetown IS an issue, but the league is at stake now.

Finally, UCF is the only up and comer worth taking a flier on. Their football program is on the rise. They just hired a very good hoops coach. They have new on campus arena and football stadium. they have 50,000 students. They are in Orlando, home of 2 bowl games. They give e very BEAST football team a trip to Florida every year. If there is one team out there in the BEAST footprintthat is worth taking a chance on it is them.

Finally, get at least a scheduling agreement with teeth with ND. Get them to use their clout with NBC/Comcast to include BEAST teams in the tv package.

This is a lot of work to do. Unfortunately the league office isn't really up to the job IMHO. Fortunately, we now have at least 2 people in the BEAST who are - Tags and Oliver Luck. If there is indeed a bit of a lull here in conference expansion, we may have enough time to put something together.

The time to act is now.

Maryland's a non starter.

Memphis alum here.

I LOVE Tulsa. It is a great school with great people.

But, they are very small. They have 4,165 students (about 3,000 undergrads).

It is hard to fathom a school that size could have the success they have had. It's an amazing accomplishment.

(06-15-2010 08:47 AM)juveeer Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 08:21 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Houston was top 25 and UCF and ECU both beat them last year.

What Luck and Tagliabue need to do is put their NFL/TV experience to work and come up with a plan to expand revenues significantly in the huge markets that the BEAST sits in. Get hard numbers to present to these 3 schools: BC, Maryland, and UCF in that order. MAKE a BEAST network viable (it should be given the hoops domination and the very strong non-revenue sports in the BEAST to go along with football).

IMHO, BC would not have gone to the ACC if they had known the bEAST would survive and do so well at BCS level. They are not treated all that well by the ACC and if we can show the numbers are there and everyone agrees to stay and build the league, then I think they can be brought back. They were a charter member remember.

Maryland is another ACC school who sux hind teet in that league and has no rivals despite playing in that league since the beginning. They actually have a better rivalry with WVU than with any other school they play. they sit in the DC market which a guy like Tags can exploit if he is given an opportunity. Georgetown IS an issue, but the league is at stake now.

Finally, UCF is the only up and comer worth taking a flier on. Their football program is on the rise. They just hired a very good hoops coach. They have new on campus arena and football stadium. they have 50,000 students. They are in Orlando, home of 2 bowl games. They give e very BEAST football team a trip to Florida every year. If there is one team out there in the BEAST footprintthat is worth taking a chance on it is them.

Finally, get at least a scheduling agreement with teeth with ND. Get them to use their clout with NBC/Comcast to include BEAST teams in the tv package.

This is a lot of work to do. Unfortunately the league office isn't really up to the job IMHO. Fortunately, we now have at least 2 people in the BEAST who are - Tags and Oliver Luck. If there is indeed a bit of a lull here in conference expansion, we may have enough time to put something together.

The time to act is now.

Agreed -- I don't think there is strong loyalty on BC's part to the ACC necessarily -- however the financial portion of things makes it hard for them to leave.

If the BE can make a Dan Beebe like case to some schools that our next overall financial package will be worthwhile, I think schools take a serious look at the us.

As for all the expansion talk -- I have nothing against any CUSA school and I'm sure if I was in their position I'd be actively promoting Cincinnati too. However, pragmatically the BE needs to protect its rolling scores for BCS AQ and until a program comes in that will at least keep those scores up -- we can't expand. The BE is already looked down on as the stepchild AQ conf and lowering our scores further will only increase that worldview.

IF the MWC implodes, losing Utah, BYU and TCU to other AQ conferences and the BE has more 'breathing room' as an AQ conference -- then maybe we can examine expansion.

BTW - no more Xavier talk, not in the BE!!

As of right now, we don't need anymore markets. We need to exploit the markets we have. We are sitting on top of a gold mine and Marinatto is sleeping on it. Why go to Texas when we have 25% of the household market right now.

Get that network going... add 1. I'm hoping its UCF for obvious reasons. USF and UCF will help our recruiting there. We need to try to add some "marketshares" in Florida not Texas.

After getting a successful network going ( i have no doubt that it will be successful), we will then have 3 spots to add for a 12/20 hybrid. Or if they want more content then we might have to do a 12/24 hybrid

Then we can talk about adding 3 BCS schools for the remaining spots. BC and Miami comes to mind. As well as Maryland, only if Debbie Yow leaves because she is an ACC through and through.

But either way, add that 9th football member for easy scheduling and add a rival to the team that is on the island right now. We don't need to create a BC/ACC fiasco and we don't need 2 teams miles away without a traveling partner.

If Big East is willing to give partial membership to TCU for football only then i guess its doable.

I wish people would stop with the TCU stuff. Besides the fact that they wouldn't join the BE, as many have said, if their football slips for any reason, they offer absolutely nothing. Stop with the fantasy that adding a small to mid-sized regional private university will help make in-roads into Texas recruiting and a Texas market somepletely dominated by UT and A&M.

(06-15-2010 09:15 AM)ucat03 Wrote:  BTW - no more Xavier talk, not in the BE!!

Scaredy cat?

(06-15-2010 09:23 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 09:15 AM)ucat03 Wrote:  BTW - no more Xavier talk, not in the BE!!

Scaredy cat?

UC already plays them yearly. I don't think anybody is scared... it just doesn't make sense for the conference to add another Cincinnati school.

Dayton would make more sense than Xavier.

(06-15-2010 06:50 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  Any conversation about Big East expansion must begin with TCU. Anyone else lowers the conference's BCS rating, which is precisely why they haven't added any of the usual suspects.

This. Has anyone given any thought as to how these teams would affect our BCS ranking. Most of them would bring it down. Their ranking would bring our conf. avg ranking down in the 3rd BCS criteria. Wouldn't cause us to lose our bid, but still something to think about. TCU wouldn't cause it to go dwon and ECU probably wouldn't based on the last 2 years, but the others probably would. Remember all the MWC has to do is finish in the top 6 of average ranking to meet the BCS criteria. They aren't there yet, but if we bring in a team that brings our rankings down, they might.

It amazes me that of all fans, a West Virginia fan would look down his nose on any school. West Virginia is a very poor state that depends on federal government welfare to have roads and buildings. West Virginia University is the flagship of the state and the best it can do is a tier 3 rating. Your fans have probably the worst reputation of any fans in the country as to how visiting fans from other schools are treated. On top of all that, your football program is under investigation by the ncaa and your basketball coach doesn't have the best reputation in the world. You just need to get over yourself.

is enrollment an important factor for expansion? And does the BE Commissioner actually visit the potential candidates like the Pac 10 AD or do they never leave their Providence office?

(06-15-2010 09:41 AM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  It amazes me that of all fans, a West Virginia fan would look down his nose on any school. West Virginia is a very poor state that depends on federal government welfare to have roads and buildings. West Virginia University is the flagship of the state and the best it can do is a tier 3 rating. Your fans have probably the worst reputation of any fans in the country as to how visiting fans from other schools are treated. On top of all that, your football program is under investigation by the ncaa and your basketball coach doesn't have the best reputation in the world. You just need to get over yourself.

You do realize that Huggins has had multiple runs as the head of the NCAA Basketball Coaches Association... he was elected by his peers to that position. That tells me that he is well respected in the profession, and any bad reputation he has is due to his coarse attitude towards the media, especially nationally.

Anybody who has ever met the guy talks about how much different he is compared to the persona that he has been painted.

As far as fans go, while I am no fan of WVU's fan base when in Morgantown, plenty of other schools are just as bad. Ohio State, Kentucky, almost everyone in the SEC come to mind. Unfortunately it is the norm in athletics in today's world, which sucks.

(06-15-2010 09:42 AM)knightastic Wrote:  is enrollment an important factor for expansion? And does the BE Commissioner actually visit the potential candidates like the Pac 10 AD or do they never leave their Providence office?

I'd guess yes and yes. Enrollment is a sign as to whether the school will have a significant following in the future. I'm sure the BE commish has been around to a lot of schools... some of them realistic candidates, some of them not. I don't think we know any of the real happenings in terms of the future conference, nor should we on most occasions until after everything is signed, sealed, and delivered.

(06-15-2010 09:37 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 09:23 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(06-15-2010 09:15 AM)ucat03 Wrote:  BTW - no more Xavier talk, not in the BE!!

Scaredy cat?

UC already plays them yearly. I don't think anybody is scared... it just doesn't make sense for the conference to add another Cincinnati school.

Dayton would make more sense than Xavier.

Dayton is the South Carolina of college basketball.