If the Big East had to add two schools for whatever reason, would Southern Miss be the second pick in the pecking order behind ECU as "LaurelEagle" claims?

(05-22-2010 11:48 AM)WVUeer Wrote:  If the Big East had to add two schools for whatever reason, would Southern Miss be the second pick in the pecking order behind ECU as "LaurelEagle" claims?

No.

(05-22-2010 11:48 AM)WVUeer Wrote:  If the Big East had to add two schools for whatever reason, would Southern Miss be the second pick in the pecking order behind ECU as "LaurelEagle" claims?

That was so funny when I read that. I think the Big East would have to expand to 16 football teams (not happening) before USM were even considered. Now no one knows what the Big East office is thinking, but I were designing the conference, off the top of my head, in every conceviable scenario, I would ask the following schools before I ever even made it to Souther Mississippi:


Central Florida
East Carolina
Florida International *
Florida Atlantic *
Houston
Massachussettes (with move to 1A)
Memphis
Temple
Texas Christian
Tulane **

Even if you consider that up to three of those schools have reasons to decline an invitation if invited, they would all be invited ahead of Southern Miss. In addition, in many scenarioes, I can see that a couple of the MAC teams in Ohio, like Miami or Bowling Green, would be more attractive additions simply due to their geography, recent football success, and location in fertile recuriting areas. And this also does not include the fact that several non-football schools would be considered first.

This is not slight against Souther Mississippi, as they used to beat us (Louisville) regularly, and I always enjoyed playing them. But simply put, their only asset is gone, as they can no longer boast the good football teams they used to in the 1990's. They are far away from the core Big East market, and are not in a big market in their own right, and are not a national name in any way shape or form, and puts them very low on the totem pole. They have a very similar profile currently as Florida Atlantic, who has the clear advantage of being in Florida. Between the two, I take my chances on FAU.

* If I were expanding to 16 teams, If I had to use mid level C-USA teams for exapnsion, I woudl instead just create a Florida pod, which has far more potential than Southern Mississsippi and Alabama-Birmingham.

** I included Tulane because while I am not keen on the need for more markets, if you are taking schools so far away from your footprint, they need to be in a big market. Plus they are a private AAU school.

There is a reason why the Big East is damn near on life support. It is because the basketball schools and their cronies in leadership always went for round ball first. Now that football TV revenue has surpassed BB credits in the $$$ pecking order, those decisions have put the BE in a tough situation. TJ is not pushing for Southern Miss because he thinks the cities of Mobile, New Orleans and Jackson will tune in instinctively to watch USM and UConn on the gridiron, he's doing so because Southern Miss owns his school. Hell, even last year Louisville needed a last second field goal to win the game despite USM leaving 14 points on the field. I know that was "the last year of their program killing coach" and all, but even a down team from a BCS conference and the mighty Big East should have been able to phone that in right? And while we're on the subject, Southern Miss owns every team in play and our old buddies UL and USF. Interestingly enough, Cincy actually has a 1 game advantage over us coming from a bowl game, even though both have lopsided home/away records. The mighty ECU and their 3 wins over Southern Miss this decade were by 4 points/game.

We may not be ritzy enough by West Virginia standards, but when you take our winning tradition, success over current and potential conference members, 80%+ graduation rate and clean program - oh yeah, and 15,000 fans to bowl games, the ACTUAL leadership in the conference might just see something they like. I'm just sayin...

WVUeer...wow really you have to create a poll to find comfort in your beliefs that USM will not be offered an invite to the Big East?? Laureleagle is just pointing out the facts of what has been happening in and around Hattiesburg, ex: big east officials being on our campus, with that being said we don't care what you or anyone else on this forum thinks of your thoughts of us being admitted...he and others were just trying to educate on the happenings in and around our program, as to give the posters some insights to what your conference actions might be in regards to expansion. So how about being appreciative that we are providing what we are hearing and stop bashing...

(05-22-2010 12:59 PM)maverick37 Wrote:  WVUeer...wow really you have to create a poll to find comfort in your beliefs that USM will not be offered an invite to the Big East?? Laureleagle is just pointing out the facts of what has been happening in and around Hattiesburg, ex: big east officials being on our campus, with that being said we don't care what you or anyone else on this forum thinks of your thoughts of us being admitted...he and others were just trying to educate on the happenings in and around our program, as to give the posters some insights to what your conference actions might be in regards to expansion. So how about being appreciative that we are providing what we are hearing and stop bashing...

Not bashing...just not agreeing and I'm not believing it. To many better options out there before even thinking about Southern Miss if this conference survives. Sorry, I just dont see that happening. And no I dont see Southern Miss as some "football power" school.

You guys come over here to a "BIG EAST" board and talk all of this BS with nothing to back it up. You dont provide no links or anything.....I call it as I see it.

these are your REALISTIC options:
Southern Miss
ECU
UCF
Marshall
Memphis
Temple
Them's they, buddy.
All ya got.
ECU has good football and baseball
Southern Miss has good football and baseball
Memphis has potential for good football, and rebuilding basketball after losing calipari
Temple has basketball, crap football, and has already been kicked out
Marshall has potential for football and has WVU against them
UCF has potential for football and is in florida, but USF is pushing hard against them.

Reality:
1. ECU
2. Southern Miss
3 & 4. Memphis/UCF
5. Temple/Marshall

Football is what matters here.
You guys need to realize that

This is the Big East expansion board and at the very least, having Big East representatives on our campus gives us a seat at the table. I think that is at least a little bit more qualifiable than the "hey we got kicked out of the Big East, but if we're lucky we may have 20,000 at our home games this year and that makes us a bona fide candidate now" argument. What do you want me to link? Do you want a link to premium members only threads? I laid it out for in the other thread and with the exception of a couple details that might jeopardize my sources or our confidentiality agreement, I laid it all out. That is stronger than anything any of the whackjob sports writers are coming up with who seem to think The Ohio State University or Penn State are going to sit back and cast a yes vote for Notre Dame and Texas sweetheart deals so they can take their seat at the Rose Bowl.

Hey, I understand your concerns and doubt. Quite frankly, I wonder how Memphis and their mickey mouse football team, basketball team that didn't make the dance and probabtion problem are still being discussed. The same goes for UCF as well. However, I factor in the potential UCF brings (and nothing more at this point), the strength Memphis' history shows they will bring to the court and with some more do re me, might even escalate football too. I even get the reality that USM is in CUSA, is certainly not a household name across the country, hasn't won it since 2003 (when we got our 4th ring mind you), was only ranked 11th in the nation back in 2000, finished ranked 14th in 1999 and despite wins over Nebraska, Ok State, Illinois, TCU(#9), Virginia, Alabama (#11), NC State and have been receiving top 25 votes 8/10 last reasons still has a little work to do. I get that! However, if I am faced with a conference falling apart at the seams with 8 fledgeling football teams, each with a little bit of baggage (except maybe WVU), there is nothing left to choose from. Do you really think you are going poach anybody from the ACC after that ESPN deal? Come on man, Cincy got raped by a deflated Florida team and I even thought Cincy (with Brian Kelly as much as I can't stand the prick) could have given UT or Bama a ride for their money if not beat them outright.

Trust me, everything is going to be alright. Unlike some other programs who were still officially playing club football several years ago, we know how to win and win big. Hey, just ask Pitt!

(05-22-2010 01:51 PM)Corey4USM Wrote:  This is the Big East expansion board and at the very least, having Big East representatives on our campus gives us a seat at the table. I think that is at least a little bit more qualifiable than the "hey we got kicked out of the Big East, but if we're lucky we may have 20,000 at our home games this year and that makes us a bona fide candidate now" argument. What do you want me to link? Do you want a link to premium members only threads? I laid it out for in the other thread and with the exception of a couple details that might jeopardize my sources or our confidentiality agreement, I laid it all out. That is stronger than anything any of the whackjob sports writers are coming up with who seem to think The Ohio State University or Penn State are going to sit back and cast a yes vote for Notre Dame and Texas sweetheart deals so they can take their seat at the Rose Bowl.

Hey, I understand your concerns and doubt. Quite frankly, I wonder how Memphis and their mickey mouse football team, basketball team that didn't make the dance and probabtion problem are still being discussed. The same goes for UCF as well. However, I factor in the potential UCF brings (and nothing more at this point), the strength Memphis' history shows they will bring to the court and with some more do re me, might even escalate football too. I even get the reality that USM is in CUSA, is certainly not a household name across the country, hasn't won it since 2003 (when we got our 4th ring mind you), was only ranked 11th in the nation back in 2000, finished ranked 14th in 1999 and despite wins over Nebraska, Ok State, Illinois, TCU(#9), Virginia, Alabama (#11), NC State and have been receiving top 25 votes 8/10 last reasons still has a little work to do. I get that! However, if I am faced with a conference falling apart at the seams with 8 fledgeling football teams, each with a little bit of baggage (except maybe WVU), there is nothing left to choose from. Do you really think you are going poach anybody from the ACC after that ESPN deal? Come on man, Cincy got raped by a deflated Florida team and I even thought Cincy (with Brian Kelly as much as I can't stand the prick) could have given UT or Bama a ride for their money if not beat them outright.

Trust me, everything is going to be alright. Unlike some other programs who were still officially playing club football several years ago, we know how to win and win big. Hey, just ask Pitt!

You can't have it both ways. If Pitt is one of your teams that has "baggage", then there is no need to brag about beating Pitt in the mid 90s at a bowl game.

When people are asking for links, I think the bare minimum that you would be required to add should at show circumstantial evidence. For example, if BE officials are all over USM, there should be at least one article in your local papers that would say "so and so from the BE has come to USM to tour the facilities, etc., etc...." There has to be something in your local papers that would point to some of the same things you may be providing in more detail.

what part of confidentiality agreement do you not understand?

(05-22-2010 01:21 PM)laureleagle Wrote:  these are your REALISTIC options:
Southern Miss
ECU
UCF
Marshall
Memphis
Temple
Them's they, buddy.
All ya got.
ECU has good football and baseball
Southern Miss has good football and baseball
Memphis has potential for good football, and rebuilding basketball after losing calipari
Temple has basketball, crap football, and has already been kicked out
Marshall has potential for football and has WVU against them
UCF has potential for football and is in florida, but USF is pushing hard against them.

Reality:
1. ECU
2. Southern Miss
3 & 4. Memphis/UCF
5. Temple/Marshall

Football is what matters here.
You guys need to realize that

Let me reorder those for you.
1. UCF
2. ECU
3. Temple
4. Memphis
5. USM
Marshall

The only way USM even gets a sniff is if we bring in Memphis. The drive time from Memphis to Hattiesburg is 4 hours and 45 minutes. That would be the closest member you'd be near. Realistically you bring a small market, no recruiting, a smaller enrollment and an attendance just over 30K the last 2 seasons. This isn't the stuff that exactly carries the WOW factor.

IMHO, there are no schools out there that bring the whole package currently. Therefore you need to factor in potential. USM has very little potential. UCF has loads of it. With a student body of 50K (3+ times the size of USM's enrollment) you could see in 10 years they could fill 60-70K per game. USM is third fiddle in a small state. You can argue that UCF would be 4th or 5th fiddle in FL, but FL is a huge state and UCF brings a top 20 media market with them. They can grow a fan base from their student body. USM would take 3 times longer. Academically you are a tier 4 school. That will be held against you. UCF is tier 3, and ECU has been tier 3 recently. Temple and Memphis are roughly equal in FB at this point, and Temple is better academically and fits the footprint better, especially if we lose Rutgers to the B10. Marshall as very little potential to climb higher. Small school, small market, small state, redundant within the footprint, and probably won't be able to draw much better than mid 30K in it's best years. Call me crazy, but I don't see where the appeal there is.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not hating on USM, they are a football school with a good history of success. From a potential standpoint, there are others in line ahead of them. Geographically, USM is a stretch and I don't see enough positives to stretch that far.

(05-22-2010 02:07 PM)laureleagle Wrote:  what part of confidentiality agreement do you not understand?

So the press around Hattiesburg has no inkling about this at all? You mean the BE and USM are so good at keeping secrets that the press would be completely clueless? No anonymous sources that would want to talk to the local news outlets or papers?

Most of us understand what confidentiality agreements are all about, but surely the press would have at least 1 or 2 stories that would indirectly corroborate your insider info.

(05-22-2010 01:21 PM)laureleagle Wrote:  these are your REALISTIC options:
Southern Miss
ECU
UCF
Marshall
Memphis
Temple
Them's they, buddy.
All ya got.
ECU has good football and baseball
Southern Miss has good football and baseball
Memphis has potential for good football, and rebuilding basketball after losing calipari
Temple has basketball, crap football, and has already been kicked out
Marshall has potential for football and has WVU against them
UCF has potential for football and is in florida, but USF is pushing hard against them.

Reality:
1. ECU
2. Southern Miss
3 & 4. Memphis/UCF
5. Temple/Marshall

Football is what matters here.
You guys need to realize that

Laurel, the six schools you mention..(UCF, Memphis, ECU, Marshall, Southern Miss and Temple)....... I AGREE are likely the only "realistic" options. I'm not disagreeing with you on that. What I'm disagreeing with you about is the pecking order in which they go. Thats what I'm saying. I just do not invision a scenario where Southern Miss is going before Memphis or UCF. I really dont. If we only lose Rutgers, we survive and only have to add 1 or 2. You have to remember that if it comes down to a vote, likely the basketball schools are going to be in agreement wit Memphis first. Thats a no brainer IMO. I've been around this league for a long time and I know the thinking and tendencies this league has. If one more school is added for scheduling purposes in football then its likely a "football only" invite due to keeping the balance on the basketball side. The UCF president has been quoted as saying that he does not see UCF as a "partial" member in any conference so it then comes down to the strongest football school that would accept a partial bid.......that school is likely ECU that would accept a partial invite.

Now if for some reason down the road the conference sees a need to expand to 12 teams (or more), the first team to be taken would be UCF (if they didnt accept a partial) followed by teams like Marshall, Temple and Southern Miss.


Remember, I have always said that if we lose 2 or more, the odds of this conference surviving are not good. I think some of us could end up in other BCS leagues.

You go back and look at my posts and you will see that I have consistently listed those schools YOU MENTIONED with the exception of Temple and thats only because I'm reserving judgement on Temple until this coming fall to see if their attendance is up in football. This upcoming year is huge for Temple in football and could speek volumes on their future.

(05-22-2010 02:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-22-2010 02:07 PM)laureleagle Wrote:  what part of confidentiality agreement do you not understand?

So the press around Hattiesburg has no inkling about this at all? You mean the BE and USM are so good at keeping secrets that the press would be completely clueless? No anonymous sources that would want to talk to the local news outlets or papers?

Most of us understand what confidentiality agreements are all about, but surely the press would have at least 1 or 2 stories that would indirectly corroborate your insider info.

Exactly.

(05-22-2010 02:07 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  Realistically you bring a small market, no recruiting, a smaller enrollment and an attendance just over 30K the last 2 seasons. This isn't the stuff that exactly carries the WOW factor.

No recruiting? You might want to tell that to our 5* WR Deandre Brown. Also, comparatively speaking, USM would have had the #4 ranked recruiting class in the Big East this year just 5 spots behind Louisville.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/re...10/all/all

(05-22-2010 02:24 PM)Corey4USM Wrote:  

(05-22-2010 02:07 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  Realistically you bring a small market, no recruiting, a smaller enrollment and an attendance just over 30K the last 2 seasons. This isn't the stuff that exactly carries the WOW factor.

No recruiting? You might want to tell that to our 5* WR Deandre Brown. Also, comparatively speaking, USM would have had the #4 ranked recruiting class in the Big East this year just 5 spots behind Louisville.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/re...10/all/all

I cant believe how low Wisconsin is on that list.

Why are Southern Miss fans so defensive? At best, they'd be the 4th option for the BIG EAST after UCF, Memphis and East Carolina. That's just the way it is.

USM's drawbacks are the location (not near a major airport, 1.5 hours from New Orleans) and subpar basketball facility/support.

(05-22-2010 02:33 PM)Pumpkin Man Wrote:  Why are Southern Miss fans so defensive? At best, they'd be the 4th option for the BIG EAST after UCF, Memphis and East Carolina. That's just the way it is.

USM's drawbacks are the location (not near a major airport, 1.5 hours from New Orleans) and subpar basketball facility/support.

I think it is more frustration over how long this is dragging out combined with now having to read ECU, Memphis and UCF fans talking crap about USM. I'm not here to say that USM should command the respect of college football nation, but there is a certain amount of common sense. If UCF's enrollment is such a competitive advantage, then why haven't they done crap in CUSA? If ECU is so great, why can't they beat Southern Miss more than a couple times a decade? Hell, last year when they beat VT and WVU, Southern Miss won by 30. This year, they got their blind nut by 5 points. Memphis, same deal, and they have actually had some recent success against USM. For the uninitiated, that game is called the annual black/blue bowl.

I have respect for all the teams I just mentioned and am proud of the fact that ECU wouldn't even be in CUSA if not for USM going to bat for them or even when Katrina ran us out of town, memphis was gracious enough to let our athletic department and football team set up shop on their campus sharing the same practice field with the Tigers.

To your original statement though, the original word was always all 4 to the BE. After those 4, Temple and whoever else could duke it out for Rutgers' spot. However, just in the last 3 weeks or so did rumors of USM's spot in the pecking order change from what we had originally believed and only on Friday did I personally confirm with 3 different sources leading straight to the AD of where we believe USM sits in the eyes of the Big East office/Presidents.

"Hell, last year when they beat VT and WVU, Southern Miss won by 30."


----

As is the case with the majority of non-aq teams, after playing those BCS teams our lines and lb's were depleted. The loss of one of our senior captain at linebacker against Tulane (right after those to wins) really affected our defensive cohesiveness and it showed when we faced NC state at their place and lost in OT. Obviously depth for non-aq's is a concern and the reason there is such a heated battle to "one-up" other non-aq's. FWIW I hope your scenario comes to fruition eagles fans.. wouldn't mind moving up with you guys (even if you are our kryptonite).

(05-22-2010 02:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-22-2010 02:07 PM)laureleagle Wrote:  what part of confidentiality agreement do you not understand?

So the press around Hattiesburg has no inkling about this at all? You mean the BE and USM are so good at keeping secrets that the press would be completely clueless? No anonymous sources that would want to talk to the local news outlets or papers?

Most of us understand what confidentiality agreements are all about, but surely the press would have at least 1 or 2 stories that would indirectly corroborate your insider info.

To be fair, MIko... Our AD has been EXTREMELY tight-lipped to everyone on this.

He himself has had quite a few radio interviews and he's basically said "we're talking, we've got stuff in place", but he will not say anything else to anyone.

I get the feeling he's put in a "Gag order" to everyone that's been on USM's involvement in this (cause there's still no sure thing about any expansion).

That being said, if there is a round of expansions, and USM isn't included, I think RG knows he's going to be despised by the USM alumni (as they thought they we should have been included in the last rounds with any of the conference expansions that occurred..).