(04-22-2010 11:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Everyone does realize that Tagliabue is the Chairman of the Board at Georgetown, right? I highly doubt a split would be advocated by him. So, I guess a 20 school league could be possible, but let's get real here - it will have zero impact on whether a BE school would accept an invite to the Big Ten. It's hard to turn down both guaranteed money AND increased academic prestige.

You are probably right it would be hard to turn down, but not impossible. For one, didn't you say an SEC team would not leave? They certainly woudl not be staying because of all of that academic money from the SEC. Not that the BE is the SEC, but it goes to show that if reasonable security and financing could be made available, a team may decide to not move to the almighty Big Ten; especially witht he prospect of going to a league where you have no say in anything. Pitt is the only school that I see with 0 chance of turning it down, due to their funding issues over the past few years, and with their state's flagship school already there. The others in question, may be able to be swayed to staying. Not saying the Big East will win that battle, but it would be crazy to say that there is a zero percent chance that a school would consider staying.

Also, what I proposed above would work with one 20 team conference instead of two conferences of 12/8. Basically it is a very similar proposal to the pod system, but I honestly never thought a 20 team conference was in the cards, and really I am not a fan of ti. I persoanlly think two affiliated leagues that are still sperate is more ideal, especially with 8 teams who don't play football.

(04-22-2010 08:32 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

Quote:Who is to say the Big East does not react aggressively by expanding and going after other teams such as Maryland and there has even been speculation that the Big East could send out an olive branch to see if Boston College would come back into the fold. Throw in Central Florida as partner in Florida with South Florida. Add that to a core group in the Northeast centered around Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, UConn, West Virginia and you might have a football conference that might not only survive, but thrive..

Sounds like an excellent plan to me

Yep, throw in Memphis as the 4th, and I'm good, too.

Back to reality, Frank is right. No matter what the BE does, it cannot prevent the B10 from taking who it wants. And if they go to 14 or 16, the SEC has all but said it will, too.

The real way for the BE to survive and thrive is to beat the ACC to the punch somehow, b/c if the B10 and the SEC go big, then either the ACC or the BE is in big trouble. Right now it's the BE, but maybe you could change that with a solid and fairly quick network plan.

With 96 team tourn,
Doesn't 18 allsports work with 2 FB only

(04-22-2010 12:37 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  With 96 team tourn,
Doesn't 18 allsports work with 2 FB only

There will be no 96 team tournament at this time.
The NCAA just announced the tournament is only going to 68 teams.

(04-22-2010 11:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Everyone does realize that Tagliabue is the Chairman of the Board at Georgetown, right? I highly doubt a split would be advocated by him. So, I guess a 20 school league could be possible, but let's get real here - it will have zero impact on whether a BE school would accept an invite to the Big Ten. It's hard to turn down both guaranteed money AND increased academic prestige.

It is also hard to throw away historical ties and standing in a league to be a no one in a different league. The Big East schools that seem to be the targets already have academic prestige on their own, there is no guarantee that if all else is similar they will throw all their ties and standing in a league they helped form away to go be an after thought just because someone else also has prestige. Anything the Big East can do will have a strong impact on what Big East teams do. It's not like were talking about far away Miami that wanted to play closer to its region here.

Courtesy of Buck

# BE tv households (25% of us homes) 28716595
% with cable (56%) 16081293.2
rate of service/month $1.1
x12 $13.20

x BE cable households $212,273,070.24
div. by 16 teams (=teams share before adjustment) $13,267,066.89
half share for bb teams $6,633,533.45
plus half share xtra for football $19,900,600.34

So in my scenario if the current BE created it's own network and was able to obtain $1.10 per subscriber per month in its markets, then adjusted the revenues for football and basketball:

Football teams would receive (from BEN) $19,900,600.34 per year
Basketball teams would receive (from BEN) $6,633,533.45 per year

Add in to this the $4 million football schools currently receive and the $2million the bb schools receive from network contracts (and this would likely be more the next go around as the BE appears underpaid considerably) and not even considering the bowl revenues and you have:

Football teams would receive approx.(from BEN and TV) $23,900,600.34 per year
Basketball teams would receive approx.(from BEN and TV) $8,633,533.45 per year

Now add 26.5M from the additions of FSU, Miami, Maryland and Clemson thats an additional 2.2M to the B.E.N.. Those schools would also drive the ESPN deal to bigger numbers. Plus a championship game would probably be worth another 5-10M.

Thats even closer to the Big 10 than originally thought.

(04-22-2010 12:54 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 11:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Everyone does realize that Tagliabue is the Chairman of the Board at Georgetown, right? I highly doubt a split would be advocated by him. So, I guess a 20 school league could be possible, but let's get real here - it will have zero impact on whether a BE school would accept an invite to the Big Ten. It's hard to turn down both guaranteed money AND increased academic prestige.

It is also hard to throw away historical ties and standing in a league to be a no one in a different league. The Big East schools that seem to be the targets already have academic prestige on their own, there is no guarantee that if all else is similar they will throw all their ties and standing in a league they helped form away to go be an after thought just because someone else also has prestige. Anything the Big East can do will have a strong impact on what Big East teams do. It's not like were talking about far away Miami that wanted to play closer to its region here.

I understand what you're saying, but those historic ties are there for basketball as opposed to football. BE football has only been around for less than 20 years. Penn State, a historic rival for most Northeastern football schools, is already in the Big Ten and has a bigger impact on the region than anyone else. Who knows what ND might ultimately do (because I think that they're much more worried about the Big Ten going up to 16 schools than what they're publicly saying).

The question isn't whether the BE Network can work or not. The real question is whether you can (1) find a cable industry partner on the ground floor to start it up and (2) convince people that a BE network is going to be worth more than a Pac-10 or Big 12 or ACC network (because you're naive if you think those other conferences aren't already looking at it, especially the Pac-10 which has hired the former president of the Big Ten Network), because there's only so much money to go around for start-up capital in this economic environment.

The best bet is to partner up with another conference - it won't be as lucrative on a per-school basis as the Big Ten Network, but it definitely provides more leverage in terms of getting carried (which is the most important factor). The Big Ten Network looks like a no-brainer now, but it was EXTREMELY risky (and it's still extremely risk for any conference). Even Paul Tagliabue's own NFL Network didn't get the carriage that it wanted for several years after it started up - the NFL grossly overvalued the worth of a small package of football games and it took a very steep reduction in price to get national carriage. The Big Ten Network and the MLB Network actually were more successful than the NFL in getting their networks broad distribution much quicker.

(04-22-2010 01:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Even Paul Tagliabue's own NFL Network didn't get the carriage that it wanted for several years after it started up - the NFL grossly overvalued the worth of a small package of football games and it took a very steep reduction in price to get national carriage. The Big Ten Network and the MLB Network actually were more successful than the NFL in getting their networks broad distribution much quicker.

I always thought the NFL was crazy to think they could get $1.00 per month per subscriber, and get on basic cable, simply because they carried 8 C-tier football games per year, mixed with 358 days of ESPN Classic. Ironically by choosing to go that route, the NFL may have sabatoged the NHL, as Versus was the on ewho irignally bid on those games, and was hoping to use the NFL package to get on more cable systems, which would have made the NHL easier to find.

MLB Network actually has a more tangible product to carry, as they can actually carry several games a week if they chose, without really affecting national TV contracts. Of course, it is ironic then that my cable system carries The NFL Network and The Big Ten Network, but not MLB or NBA networks.

(04-22-2010 01:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The question isn't whether the BE Network can work or not. The real question is whether you can (1) find a cable industry partner on the ground floor to start it up

The best bet is to partner up with another conference - it won't be as lucrative on a per-school basis as the Big Ten Network, but it definitely provides more leverage in terms of getting carried (which is the most important factor).

What abotu partnering up with networks that are arleady around, but struggling, namely Versus and CBS College sports? Such a move would require far less start up money,and get those networks moved to basic cable in a lot of areas. I am not sure who would be a better partner, the ACC (if bygones can be bygones) or Big XII, but it coudl be conceivable.

(04-22-2010 01:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 12:54 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 11:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Everyone does realize that Tagliabue is the Chairman of the Board at Georgetown, right? I highly doubt a split would be advocated by him. So, I guess a 20 school league could be possible, but let's get real here - it will have zero impact on whether a BE school would accept an invite to the Big Ten. It's hard to turn down both guaranteed money AND increased academic prestige.

It is also hard to throw away historical ties and standing in a league to be a no one in a different league. The Big East schools that seem to be the targets already have academic prestige on their own, there is no guarantee that if all else is similar they will throw all their ties and standing in a league they helped form away to go be an after thought just because someone else also has prestige. Anything the Big East can do will have a strong impact on what Big East teams do. It's not like were talking about far away Miami that wanted to play closer to its region here.

I understand what you're saying, but those historic ties are there for basketball as opposed to football. BE football has only been around for less than 20 years. Penn State, a historic rival for most Northeastern football schools, is already in the Big Ten and has a bigger impact on the region than anyone else. Who knows what ND might ultimately do (because I think that they're much more worried about the Big Ten going up to 16 schools than what they're publicly saying).

The question isn't whether the BE Network can work or not. The real question is whether you can (1) find a cable industry partner on the ground floor to start it up and (2) convince people that a BE network is going to be worth more than a Pac-10 or Big 12 or ACC network (because you're naive if you think those other conferences aren't already looking at it, especially the Pac-10 which has hired the former president of the Big Ten Network), because there's only so much money to go around for start-up capital in this economic environment.

The best bet is to partner up with another conference - it won't be as lucrative on a per-school basis as the Big Ten Network, but it definitely provides more leverage in terms of getting carried (which is the most important factor). The Big Ten Network looks like a no-brainer now, but it was EXTREMELY risky (and it's still extremely risk for any conference). Even Paul Tagliabue's own NFL Network didn't get the carriage that it wanted for several years after it started up - the NFL grossly overvalued the worth of a small package of football games and it took a very steep reduction in price to get national carriage. The Big Ten Network and the MLB Network actually were more successful than the NFL in getting their networks broad distribution much quicker.

I'd disagree on some of your points. Having grown up in that region, PSU USED to have an impact, but has dropped off sharply since going to the Big Ten. People aren't really thinking about them in the northeast nearly as much as you'd like to think anymore. Football. Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Rutgers, even Cincinnati to a lesser degree have a long history of playing each other. It is much longer than 20 years--Pitt and WVU have met over 100 years. There is much more history, tradition and fandom in the northeast than just PSU. On ND I don't think they are worried at all about what the Big Ten will do at this point, they've made their decision pretty clear I would say.

Regarding a network, the Big East is already in 25% of the nation's households. More than anyone else including the Big Ten. Instead of abandoning their own backyard to someone else so they can become wealthy from it, the Big East can try and gain what they can for themselves. The Pac 10 and ACC and Big Twelve may need to partner with some other league, but the Big East does not because they have the households without needing to carry entire states-although they do have some entire states. The Big East is also in the most lucrative area right now-the northeast corridor including NYC that no one else can claim to the same degree. BE basketball is a longstanding top draw in the northeast and would help to sell the league, as could the partnership the BE has with ND. No one has illusions that creating a network would be easy, I'm sure however Tagliabue knows a bit more about doing it than anyone on these boards.

(04-22-2010 01:04 PM)animus Wrote:  Courtesy of Buck

# BE tv households (25% of us homes) 28716595
% with cable (56%) 16081293.2
rate of service/month $1.1
x12 $13.20

x BE cable households $212,273,070.24
div. by 16 teams (=teams share before adjustment) $13,267,066.89
half share for bb teams $6,633,533.45
plus half share xtra for football $19,900,600.34

So in my scenario if the current BE created it's own network and was able to obtain $1.10 per subscriber per month in its markets, then adjusted the revenues for football and basketball:

Football teams would receive (from BEN) $19,900,600.34 per year
Basketball teams would receive (from BEN) $6,633,533.45 per year

I personally don't think there is any way that a BEN would get anywhere close to $1.10 per subscriber. It also would definitely not immediately be on 16+ million basic cable subscriptions. Here are some 2009 average carriage fees per subscriber for various sports channels when carried on basic or digital basic:
ESPN 4.08
FOX Sports Net 2.37
NFL Network 0.75
ESPN2 0.54
Big Ten Network 0.36
NHL Network 0.35
Fox College Sports 0.34
Versus 0.26
MLB Network 0.26
NBA TV 0.22
Mountain West Sports 0.20
CBS College Sports 0.19
ESPNU 0.16


At best, the BEN would probably be able to get on maybe 10 million subscriptions at a rate of around $0.40 per month. That would be around $50 million per year in carriage fees. Add to that ad fees, but substract out the cost of running the network and the cut of the profit to the partner who will actually run the network (for instance Fox owns 49% of the Big Ten Network).

(04-22-2010 02:09 PM)Inigo Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 01:04 PM)animus Wrote:  Courtesy of Buck

# BE tv households (25% of us homes) 28716595
% with cable (56%) 16081293.2
rate of service/month $1.1
x12 $13.20

x BE cable households $212,273,070.24
div. by 16 teams (=teams share before adjustment) $13,267,066.89
half share for bb teams $6,633,533.45
plus half share xtra for football $19,900,600.34

So in my scenario if the current BE created it's own network and was able to obtain $1.10 per subscriber per month in its markets, then adjusted the revenues for football and basketball:

Football teams would receive (from BEN) $19,900,600.34 per year
Basketball teams would receive (from BEN) $6,633,533.45 per year

I personally don't think there is any way that a BEN would get anywhere close to $1.10 per subscriber. It also would definitely not immediately be on 16+ million basic cable subscriptions. Here are some 2009 average carriage fees per subscriber for various sports channels when carried on basic or digital basic:
ESPN 4.08
FOX Sports Net 2.37
NFL Network 0.75
ESPN2 0.54
Big Ten Network 0.36
NHL Network 0.35
Fox College Sports 0.34
Versus 0.26
MLB Network 0.26
NBA TV 0.22
Mountain West Sports 0.20
CBS College Sports 0.19
ESPNU 0.16


At best, the BEN would probably be able to get on maybe 10 million subscriptions at a rate of around $0.40 per month. That would be around $50 million per year in carriage fees. Add to that ad fees, but substract out the cost of running the network and the cut of the profit to the partner who will actually run the network (for instance Fox owns 49% of the Big Ten Network).

Even if they achieved half of that (BTN gets around $.70 per subscriber in basic carriage areas now I believe) then it would be tremedously better than now. Also, after I wrote that post Tranghese came out and stated the Big East is due to get significant increases from it's television deals the next go around. Also, just as the Big Ten is carried in non Big Ten areas on higher tiers, the BEN would likely do the same as they gradually try to spread their product. There are many BE alumni and fans in different areas of the country and the network might get on a higher tier in those areas, delivering additional revenues to the league.

But the league is looking into anyway and they will deal with the actual numbers as they stand now, and they'll have a better idea of what sort of amount they might get from the cable carriers as well.

(04-22-2010 02:09 PM)Inigo Wrote:  ESPN 4.08
FOX Sports Net 2.37
NFL Network 0.75
ESPN2 0.54
Big Ten Network 0.36
NHL Network 0.35
Fox College Sports 0.34
Versus 0.26
MLB Network 0.26
NBA TV 0.22
Mountain West Sports 0.20
CBS College Sports 0.19
ESPNU 0.16

These numbers are not really accruate. For example, the B10 Network gets $0.75 - $1.10 per subscriber in all Big Ten Markets, but about $0.10 in other markets, making their "average" down. Also, Fox Sports Net, is a collection of regional channels, and includes many team owned channels, and channels that carry local MLB or NBA teams, so they vary wildly in fees. Some of those others, like ESPNU and CBS College sports, don't appeal to a mass audience in any particular region; a Conference network would.

Realistically, they could charge $0.60 - $0.75 per subscriber, and do just fine. Also, keep in mind, the Big East has actually shown to be a good ratings draw, and has fanbases that are mostly in big, affluent cities. They would be in a position to make some good coin from ad revenue. Again, this is not going to generate B10 or SEC money on a per school basis, but should get enough to satisfy its members.

BTW, Buck, it should be pointed out that while we currently would be due a raise in fees, if we built our onw network, and took inventory away from ESPN, it might not be as much. It woudl get a football increase, because, well they pay us nothing. But basketball may go down, as we woudl be providing them less games to showcase.

(04-22-2010 01:33 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 01:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The question isn't whether the BE Network can work or not. The real question is whether you can (1) find a cable industry partner on the ground floor to start it up

The best bet is to partner up with another conference - it won't be as lucrative on a per-school basis as the Big Ten Network, but it definitely provides more leverage in terms of getting carried (which is the most important factor).

What abotu partnering up with networks that are arleady around, but struggling, namely Versus and CBS College sports? Such a move would require far less start up money,and get those networks moved to basic cable in a lot of areas. I am not sure who would be a better partner, the ACC (if bygones can be bygones) or Big XII, but it coudl be conceivable.

It could be set up in the same manner as the MWC's mtn (which is really owned by CBS as opposed to the MWC), but that means the BE wouldn't have equity. The Big Ten's equity came from being in on the ground floor. If the BE went that route to partner up with Versus, it would really be in a traditional rights fee format as opposed to a true "BE Network". The BE schools wouldn't have the cash to pony up actually buying 50% of any existing network (which could literally run into the hundreds of millions of dollars).

There are 2 frames of thought as to who would be the best partner. The Pac-10 and Big XII wouldn't compete directly with the BE, so that's a plus. On the other hand, the fact that the ACC is also in a number of BE states increases the "need" for cable carriers in those states to carry them. The BE's population advantage is on paper, but the key is to actually DELIVER that population. This is what the Big Ten is trying to figure out - does a combo of BE schools (coupled with the likes of PSU, Michigan, etc.) actually deliver those Northeastern markets? Maybe or maybe not. The problem with the BE going it alone is that it doesn't have the PSU/Michigan/OSU headliners, so that's where the ACC is valuable as a partner with Miami/FSU for football and Duke/UNC for basketball. I don't know if Georgetown alone can support getting a network on cable in the DC area, but Georgetown plus Maryland, UVA and VT definitely does.

With regard to partnering with an existing network, if one were losing a lot of money (I don't know that they are, but that is why I mentioned a struggling network), then I can see a reason to give the conference quity if it could give new life to a dying channel, basically use it's existing facilities and penetration for a big jump start. That's why I said a struggling station. Similar to what Viacom did with Spike TV and the Nashville Network.

As for the ACC, that is an interesting proposition, as ACC basketball and Big East basketball on one network could be a big draw. Especially if done like the Orioles and Nationals do with MASN, and have split feeds to get more games on the air. The problem with two conferences is that it then loses the uniqueness of being a conference only channel, and becomes basically a watered down ESPNU. Actually now that I mention it, the MASN setup may be a good idea, if two conferences wanted to go at it, in that you combine resurces so that the start up costs are less, but you in essence have two seperate channels, with the ability for cross promotion on slow nights, and the ability to have enough marquee games to carry both blueprints.

But, I still think if Comcast came on board, between having immediate clearances on their systems (Comcast has 25 million households), and having ownership of the ND contract, and the ability to put them on the network, gives it a marketing edge to get off the ground that the other four conferences would not have. Plus the BE's willingness to play weeknight games is an added bonus, giving even more content. Even if we ended up having to partner with another, it gives the Big East leverage.

(04-22-2010 12:37 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  With 96 team tourn,
Doesn't 18 allsports work with 2 FB only

heard on radio today they are going to recommend going to 68, and having 4 play in games.

(04-22-2010 12:51 AM)brista21 Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 11:49 PM)WVUeer Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 10:56 PM)SO#1 Wrote:  http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/ex...leges-blog

SCOTTSDALE, Arizona---With all the talk of expansion, the chatter around the BCS meetings being held here this week has again put the Big East under siege, with schools such as Rutgers, Pittsburgh and Syracuse possible targets of the Big Ten, if the much-talked about plans for multiple team expansion proceed.

But today the Big East made a pro active, rather than reactive move, by hiring former National Football League commissioner Paul Tagliabue on a consultant basis to provide them with contingency plans to not only survive and perhaps thrive.

"The idea was to think outside the box,'' said Big East commissioner John Marinatto. "Look at different ways of doing things. Try and see what possibilities are out there.

'I don't know what that is. It could be anything.''
Marinatto said the Tagliabue would start working immediately and all areas would be discussed--including expansion. Marinatto would not be more specific, but when asked if he could envision the Big East--which already seems maximized at 16 teams in basketball--getting bigger instead of smaller, he said, "Anything is possible.''

Marinatto has talked to and listened to Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany ever since he took over for Mike Tranghese as the Big East commissioner last summer. He has sought Delany's council, even though the Big Ten could very well target several Big East schools in the Big Ten's on-going expansion discussions. "Brilliant,'' said Marinatto yesterday during a break in the BCS annual meetings "He's like Gordon Getko and I feel like Bud Fox,'' said Marinatto referring to the Michael Douglas -Charlie Sheen characters in the movie Wall Street. I learn so much talking to him, listening to him. He' schooling me in the way I need to think in this business''

One of the things that Marinatto has picked up is to sense of purpose, especially for a first-year commissioner whose conference may again be under siege. "The idea,'' said Marinatto, "is to think stragecially about the future.''

Yesterday, Delany defused any immediate speculation on the Big Ten expansion plans by saying that no decisions had yet been made and no announcements would be forthcoming any time soon. Whether "soon''' is next week or next month is open for debate.

One thing that appears more certain is that Notre Dame, which has been the center of most expansion speculation, will maintain the status quo--as a football independent and as a member of the Big East in basketball and other non-revenue producing sports.

But there could be more. Who is to say the Big East does not react aggressively by expanding and going after other teams such as Maryland and there has even been speculation that the Big East could send out an olive branch to see if Boston College would come back into the fold.

Throw in Central Florida as partner in Florida with South Florida. Add that to a core group in the Northeast centered around Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, UConn, West Virginia and you might have a football conference that might not only survive, but thrive..

Any inclusion of the ACC schools would probably only happen if expansion by a league such as the SEC dipped into the ACC for extra teams. This afternoon SEC commissioner Mike Slive said the SEC's policy would be proactive rather than reactive.

If the ACC lost schools such as Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State and Miami, Maryland and BC might be more inclined to look for save haven in the Northeast.

Critics suggest that Big East basketball at 16 teams is too big. Twenty teams?
"Who is to say we couldn't go to 20 teams in basketball, but not have one 20 team league, but a league with four or pods of four or five teams, you have to think strategic alliances.

What strategic alliances could we create'' said Marinatto. "Why couldn't we do something with Notre Dame in football, where they aren't a member, but they schedule groups of teams (which is already being done) in our conference.

Why couldn't we do more with television and a Big East television network (similar to the Big Ten's highly successful) "You have t
""We need a new way of thinking,'' said Marinatto. "Strategic thinking. We need to be pro-active rather than reactive and develop our assets. We are representative in 25 percent of the nation's households. Paul's theory is think long term, think over the horizon. Out of the box thinking Jim is always saying to me, you have to think differently. So hopefully Paul is going to help us think differently.'''Marinatto said that making Big East football stronger is priority.

" We do need to do that because we have the Eastern footprint of the country,'' said Marinatto. "But we also need quality.''

Teams such as Maryland and Boston College fall in that Eastern footprint. Whether they can be pried way from the ACC is an iffy question. Ideally, the Big East would also love to have Penn State back.
Marinatto says he is looking only at a big picture of the future, with no specifics-yet--but a master plan of not only surviving, but thriving. "Strategically thinking, outside of the box,'' said Marinatto, who has Notre Dame as part of his inventory in many areas.

With Delany saying things are on hold, but still could move forward and SEC taking a "pro-active'' look at the future, the movement for change in college football seems to be beginning.

For the Big East, the hiring of Tagliabue was the first move. "The first of many steps over the next several months that we need to make,'' said Marinatto, who may have fired the first shot in a long and drastic change in the structure of college athletics.''

...WOW.

I keep thinking about this and it gives me this hope that an eastern conference will be reality. Imagine out Delany-ing Delany himself and getting Penn State, BC, Maryland and Miami in the conference together with the current 8. Heck let's become two separate leagues with strong ties and scheduling agreements and in minor sports where one or the other doesn't field enough teams or doesn't field a ton of teams like lacrosse we play together in one of the league's banners. Imagine the 12 all-sports including football members in one conference the EAC and the 8 all-sports but football members in the Big East conference. We each play a 14 game conference schedule (they get a double round-robin and we get 11 + 3 repeat games) and 4 inter-conference games. This preserves traditions like Syracuse-Georgetown or Seton Hall-Rutgers or BC-Providence. Essentially 18 conference games like we have now. We share a network for our combined 20 member institutions.

The money that could be made from pooling together for a network and external media rights for those 20 schools would be incredible. We still allow ND in our bowl negotiations in exchange for a hard 4 games annually. 2 can be Pitt, Miami, BC or Penn State while the other 2 must rotate amongst the other 8 members. We also allow ND's football content outside of live games like classic games and coach's show to be shown on the network without protest. Who needs the BTN when you could have the Eastern College Sports Network?

Marinatto needs to get Tagliabue, Jurich, Nordenberg and the other more proactive, visionary guys into a room and get them to hatch the mother of all plans to not only save this conference and eastern college athletics but to take them to their rightful place alongside the premier conferences in college sports.

Me likey.

ALL of it.

JoePa may too if the Big Ten doesn't move east.

MAKE IT HAPPEN TAGGS AND MARINATTO!

(04-22-2010 01:35 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 01:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 12:54 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 11:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Everyone does realize that Tagliabue is the Chairman of the Board at Georgetown, right? I highly doubt a split would be advocated by him. So, I guess a 20 school league could be possible, but let's get real here - it will have zero impact on whether a BE school would accept an invite to the Big Ten. It's hard to turn down both guaranteed money AND increased academic prestige.

It is also hard to throw away historical ties and standing in a league to be a no one in a different league. The Big East schools that seem to be the targets already have academic prestige on their own, there is no guarantee that if all else is similar they will throw all their ties and standing in a league they helped form away to go be an after thought just because someone else also has prestige. Anything the Big East can do will have a strong impact on what Big East teams do. It's not like were talking about far away Miami that wanted to play closer to its region here.

I understand what you're saying, but those historic ties are there for basketball as opposed to football. BE football has only been around for less than 20 years. Penn State, a historic rival for most Northeastern football schools, is already in the Big Ten and has a bigger impact on the region than anyone else. Who knows what ND might ultimately do (because I think that they're much more worried about the Big Ten going up to 16 schools than what they're publicly saying).

The question isn't whether the BE Network can work or not. The real question is whether you can (1) find a cable industry partner on the ground floor to start it up and (2) convince people that a BE network is going to be worth more than a Pac-10 or Big 12 or ACC network (because you're naive if you think those other conferences aren't already looking at it, especially the Pac-10 which has hired the former president of the Big Ten Network), because there's only so much money to go around for start-up capital in this economic environment.

The best bet is to partner up with another conference - it won't be as lucrative on a per-school basis as the Big Ten Network, but it definitely provides more leverage in terms of getting carried (which is the most important factor). The Big Ten Network looks like a no-brainer now, but it was EXTREMELY risky (and it's still extremely risk for any conference). Even Paul Tagliabue's own NFL Network didn't get the carriage that it wanted for several years after it started up - the NFL grossly overvalued the worth of a small package of football games and it took a very steep reduction in price to get national carriage. The Big Ten Network and the MLB Network actually were more successful than the NFL in getting their networks broad distribution much quicker.

I'd disagree on some of your points. Having grown up in that region, PSU USED to have an impact, but has dropped off sharply since going to the Big Ten. People aren't really thinking about them in the northeast nearly as much as you'd like to think anymore. Football. Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Rutgers, even Cincinnati to a lesser degree have a long history of playing each other. It is much longer than 20 years--Pitt and WVU have met over 100 years. There is much more history, tradition and fandom in the northeast than just PSU. On ND I don't think they are worried at all about what the Big Ten will do at this point, they've made their decision pretty clear I would say.

Regarding a network, the Big East is already in 25% of the nation's households. More than anyone else including the Big Ten. Instead of abandoning their own backyard to someone else so they can become wealthy from it, the Big East can try and gain what they can for themselves. The Pac 10 and ACC and Big Twelve may need to partner with some other league, but the Big East does not because they have the households without needing to carry entire states-although they do have some entire states. The Big East is also in the most lucrative area right now-the northeast corridor including NYC that no one else can claim to the same degree. BE basketball is a longstanding top draw in the northeast and would help to sell the league, as could the partnership the BE has with ND. No one has illusions that creating a network would be easy, I'm sure however Tagliabue knows a bit more about doing it than anyone on these boards.

Excellent analysis. Frank may know the Big Ten, but he doesn't completely understand the eastern sports world, esp. football. Before PSU left, there was an Eastern Big 4 (PItt, PSU, SU and WVU) which had played each other since the 40's. Pitt and PSU had played much longer as had Pitt and WVU (over 100 years) and WVU and PSU (over 50 years). THESE were the tradtional eastern rivals and powers. In fact MARYLAND was also a rivel of both PSU and WVU for decades and they also played Pitt and Rutgers.

BC didn't really become a factor until the 80's. In fact, Villanova had a larger profile in the East for the Catholic schools than BC did until the 80s.

RU was a team many played but they weren't competitive until very recently.

Truth is, if Gavitt hadn't shunned PSU and bought off Pitt Penn State would never have gone to the Big Ten and the Eastern All sports Conference would be flourishing today.

Eastern schools understand how valuable the basketball side of things is in our markets and if there is a way to hold the league together and expand it for football and make more money I think most would prefer to do that. If ND steps up and does more, Tagliabue can set up a BEN (NBC and its new owner Comcast could hit a home run in the huge eastern markets if they leverage the ND tv deal) here and expand current deals with ESPN, THEN the BEAST may be able to set up a package attractive enough to steal MD, BC and a couple of others - maybe even PSU if the Big Ten continues to leave them on an isaldn.

Penn Stae becomes less and less relevant in the northeast every year. the same is happening to BC. BOTH would be better off athleticlay back in their home regions, but up to now there is not enough to attract them to come back home. If Marrinato and Tags can pull this off, maybe that will change.

Still a long shot, but I like what I am hearing. FINALLY the hoops schools are figuring out this is the doomsday scenario and it is time to go all out to save their league. IF they had been willing to do this when the ACC came calling, they wouldn't be here now. The "counter raid" Paquette talked about back then would have given the BEAST a much better football league than it has now or than the ACC is now with all the original BEAST members, plus Maryland, FSU, Ga Tech and maybe Clemson.

In words of the Wolf from Pulp Fiction, "Let's not go around sucking each other's d**ks now." Paul Tagliabue is the Chairman of the Board at Georgetown who has a vested interested in seeing that the hybrid sticks together. No amount of NFL experience is going to make the BE more attractive to the Big Ten (and even if there was a way, there's not enough time to do it before the Big Ten acts). What Tagliabue can do is this:

(1) Use his media contacts to make a true assessment of the value of the BE's TV contracts with the Catholic schools and without them.

(2) Have the gravitas to convince people like Tom Jurich at Louisville that it's in the best interest of the BE hybrid to stay together if/when the Big Ten takes any Big East teams.

Jack Swarbrick's "commitment" to the Big East (as quoted in another thread) consists of wanting to make sure that it continues to live on as a BCS conference where it can house all of its sports except for football. This is exactly what Tagliabue has a direct incentive to do. Please don't confuse this with thinking that ND would join the football conference.

With the quotes floating around from Marinatto, and one from associate commissioner of "groundbreaking" ready to be announced in upcoming months...

What are the chances of two subconferennces under the Big East Umbrella? Both on the B.E.N.

Marinatto commissioner of Basketball (Big East Conference)
Seton Hall
St Johns
Providence
Georgetown
Villanova
Marquette
Depaul
Notre Dame

Tagliabue commissioner of football (Metro Conference)
UL
UC
UConn
Pitt
Cuse
WVU
USF
Rutgers
Maryland
Miami
BC
Penn State

16 of 20 meet in MSG for BET basketball tourney

Use NBC for ND home games in a scheduling partnership with football schools, and the BEN for ND road games, along with the rest of the basketball, football and other sports games.

Either create the channel alone or with MWC on CBS sports, since FOx will be busy with Pac 10/AcC/B12 already.

Run those subscriber numbers from Animus/Bucks stats and you got a weinnnner!