I just want to point out that this Butler team has been most tested by Michigan St. and...............Murray St.
Murray had to ball, down 2 with 17 seconds left, and couldn't get a good shot off. It wouldn't be impossible for this to be Murray St. in the national championship game. Not as likely, because ultimately Butler is tougher inside, but not impossible.

So.....on this I actually (somewhat) agree with Pitt**** - it's not so bad to really dream what *is* the limit. No, we're not going to get into the Final Four out of the ASun, as our situation now exists. But one can see from George Mason, Davidson, and now Butler, that this is truly not impossible.......

Here's to Butler winning the NC

56-55 with five minutes left... Go Butler! What is the lowest seed ever to win the thing? Butler has to be in the running if they pull this thing off.

Villanova was a #8 when they won it.

(04-05-2010 10:15 PM)Bucster Wrote:  Villanova was a #8 when they won it.

You didn't even have time to look that up. I'm impressed.

Even in defeat, Butler stands tall. Way to go Bulldogs. If that last shot would have gone down...it would be the greatest shot in NCAA history...better than Laettner's shot. Kentucky - Duke was supposed to go down to the last second... Duke - Butler...no way. Mike Krzyzewski at 63 deserves credit.... this was a heavyweight match of coaches. Mike take a bow. I don't think you can bring yourself to retirement...but this would be a top way to go out.

Can Stevens get Butler back to the final four?...the odds are against it...but so where the odds that they would ever make it.

What are the odds of Stevens staying at Butler? Integrity says he stays to keep serving the players he has brought to Butler... Greed says he goes and cashes in. I hope he breaks the rules and stays...and doesn't renegotiate his contract. What are the odds of Hayward staying? This will be interesting to watch...

Murry schedule these guys...we need a nice trip to Butler Fieldhouse to relive Hoosiers and inspire all Bucs to overcome massive odds to be "winners" as Gene Hackman said. His last statement... "I love you guys." His players demonstrated their love for him by winning the state championship on Butler's home court.

now that was a ballgame!
Pretty sure my heart stopped for the last 3 seconds!

(04-05-2010 10:54 PM)Mister Jennings Wrote:  Even in defeat, Butler stands tall. Way to go Bulldogs. If that last shot would have gone down...it would be the greatest shot in NCAA history...better than Laettner's shot. Kentucky - Duke was supposed to go down to the last second... Duke - Butler...no way. Mike Krzyzewski at 63 deserves credit.... this was a heavyweight match of coaches. Mike take a bow. I don't think you can bring yourself to retirement...but this would be a top way to go out.

Can Stevens get Butler back to the final four?...the odds are against it...but so where the odds that they would ever make it.

What are the odds of Stevens staying at Butler? Integrity says he stays to keep serving the players he has brought to Butler... Greed says he goes and cashes in. I hope he breaks the rules and stays...and doesn't renegotiate his contract. What are the odds of Hayward staying? This will be interesting to watch...

Murry schedule these guys...we need a nice trip to Butler Fieldhouse to relive Hoosiers and inspire all Bucs to overcome massive odds to be "winners" as Gene Hackman said. His last statement... "I love you guys." His players demonstrated their love for him by winning the state championship on Butler's home court.

If Butler steps up to the plate I think there's a good chance of Stevens staying. He's from Indiana, his family is front Indiana, and he's already proven that he can reach the NC game while at Butler. Provided his signs an an extension with a huge buyout recruiting should take a major jump. Don't know what kind of financial shape Butler is in but if they step up provide Stevens with a competitive budget I see no reason why he won't stick around.

I heard someone on ESPN post-game say that the budget at Butler is only $1.5 million. But they didn't clarify whether that was the entire athletic budget, or just hoops........

I think IU may come calling for him from what I heard on the radio. We shall see.

(04-06-2010 12:39 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I heard someone on ESPN post-game say that the budget at Butler is only $1.5 million. But they didn't clarify whether that was the entire athletic budget, or just hoops........

I believe that is on hoops. $1.5 mil for an entire athletic budget is nothing- ETSU's is more than $5 mil, for instance.

By the way, what's with this "Greed says the coach will go."

I'm all for the Butler Bulldogs becoming a national power but you have to admit there are plenty of other factors that indicate a coach can leave other than greed.

I say greed because at makes $350,000 a year plus bonuses you have plenty to live on. He will get a nice raise...he already makes more than the school president.

Integrity says it about more than money...that you recruited these players to be their coach. I want to see a guy that values those relationship more than the almighty dollar. How refreshing would that be?

Butler gave this guy a chance at a mighty young age. It would be a funny way to say thanks to dump them to pursue a big shot job.

I would love for the two parties to lock down a 10 or even a life time deal where both win. If that happens...I'll be a Butler fans....whether I'll be a Stevens fan depends on how he handles this... the Tiger Woods way or the other. Try and name coaches who don't compromise...who don't sell out? I have always found it funny that the coaches make their money off the sweat of their players who put the effort in for a scholarship. Do they get a bonus?

I want a hero to root for instead of a greed ball.

You say its the American way to pursue success, to get all you can while you can? I ask, when is enough enough?

Come on Brad... you can do it. The last person I really recall living this role model thing is Peyton Manning choosing to stay in college rather than dump out early for the money. That impressed me...then I've heard some negative things about Peyton...don't know if they're true. Money corrupts. Be accountable...especially if you are married...show the kids the way we are supposed to live to have a joyful life.

Go Brad...the world is watching. You make the choice. I hope you do it the correct way. The last words my Dad told me was: "son, always do the right thing."

(04-06-2010 09:16 AM)Mister Jennings Wrote:  I say greed because at makes $350,000 a year plus bonuses you have plenty to live on. He will get a nice raise...he already makes more than the school president.

Integrity says it about more than money...that you recruited these players to be their coach. I want to see a guy that values those relationship more than the almighty dollar. How refreshing would that be?

Butler gave this guy a chance at a mighty young age. It would be a funny way to say thanks to dump them to pursue a big shot job.

I would love for the two parties to lock down a 10 or even a life time deal where both win. If that happens...I'll be a Butler fans....whether I'll be a Stevens fan depends on how he handles this... the Tiger Woods way or the other. Try and name coaches who don't compromise...who don't sell out? I have always found it funny that the coaches make their money off the sweat of their players who put the effort in for a scholarship. Do they get a bonus?

I want a hero to root for instead of a greed ball.

You say its the American way to pursue success, to get all you can while you can? I ask, when is enough enough?

Come on Brad... you can do it. The last person I really recall living this role model thing is Peyton Manning choosing to stay in college rather than dump out early for the money. That impressed me...then I've heard some negative things about Peyton...don't know if they're true. Money corrupts. Be accountable...especially if you are married...show the kids the way we are supposed to live to have a joyful life.

Go Brad...the world is watching. You make the choice. I hope you do it the correct way. The last words my Dad told me was: "son, always do the right thing."

I won't think any less of Stevens if he leaves, especially if Butler can't/won't take the steps to compete at the highest level year in and year out. I agree with Pitt, greed isn't the only reason Stevens would/could leave.

We forget that this is his career, and there is nothing wrong with career advancement in my book.

This is the height of naivety.

First of all, this implies that EVERY coach who would leave is turning their back on their recruits. Perhaps they do, and I've heard the arguements about how coaches can leave with signed contracts but players have to wait a year after transferring and all of that, but the flip side of this is that a head coach can never leave Chicago State.

And think about that for a second because if we held your arguement up to scrutiny it would mean nobody of any coaching talent or ambition would ever take a job like ETSU.

You go into this "isn't $350,000 enough to live on?" Sure, but does that mean we should cap salaries in this country? That's socialism.

What if the President gets jealous of his coach and demands he start working for less? This has happened, you know!

There are so many factors here that I don't think you can say greed would be the only potential reason for him to leave.

That said, of course I'd love to see him stay and build Butler into a consistent power. But who says with these advancements by the Bulldogs program it wouldn't be possible with another coach?

When a coach recruits...the player asks...are you going to guide me during my four years here? If he says yes...he is bound by his word.

Oh circumstances have changed...we won. Thanks players but I'm out. Are you kidding me? I would feel betrayed. We have enough crap going on in this country...liars at every turn.

How long is Steven's contract? See the contract deal is only one way...the school isn't protected...only the coach. If they fire him...they have to pay him. If the coach bails...then the school says good luck. What a bunch of garbage. Lane Kiffin lovers speak up...defend the man.

I think I detect integrity in Stevens. I think he stays to be there for his players... the soap opera rolls on....for us naive people.

Money may not have anything to do with it. For highly ambitious, type A personality people the thrill is in the next big challenge. Now we don't know 100% if Stevens is one of those people but it seems like it. He left a well paying marketing job for a volunteer job at Butler. I could be wrong but I think being the master of a small kingdom at Butler isn't going to be enough for Stevens. He may not leave this year, though his stock will never be higher, but eventually the allure of competing on the highest of stages night in and night out will draw him in.

He just seems the type and I don't think money has anything to do with it.

(04-06-2010 10:05 AM)Mister Jennings Wrote:  When a coach recruits...the player asks...are you going to guide me during my four years here? If he says yes...he is bound by his word.

Oh circumstances have changed...we won. Thanks players but I'm out. Are you kidding me? I would feel betrayed. We have enough crap going on in this country...liars at every turn.

How long is Steven's contract? See the contract deal is only one way...the school isn't protected...only the coach. If they fire him...they have to pay him. If the coach bails...then the school says good luck. What a bunch of garbage. Lane Kiffin lovers speak up...defend the man.

I think I detect integrity in Stevens. I think he stays to be there for his players... the soap opera rolls on....for us naive people.

That's not true, if he bails either him or the next school he goes to has to pay a buyout. Trust me having gone through two buyout situations with John Belien($2.5 million) and Rich Rodriguez($4 million) I can assure you that schools don't get left empty handed.

Oh and don't cry for the kids, most will bail on the school and the coach if they get the chance. If you told Gordon Hayword or Shelvin Mack that they would be lottery picks they`d probably leave tomorrow. The opportunity is too good to pass up and they may not get the opportunity again.

Same goes for Stevens.

So what if money has everything to do with it? So what if he makes $350,000. Let's say Clemson comes knocking and offers him $1.5 million? Should he really turn that down? Like Pitt said, if you can't leave a recruit, you're stuck in a perpetual cycle and can never get out. I think a school like Butler realizes how special a run to the national championship was and I'm sure they understand with a basketball budget of $1.7 million they don't have the resources to pay him anywhere close to what he will be offered by bigger programs. I hope he takes a great new job if he has the opportunity and that he does well. Leaving doesn't mean he has no integrity. Can a school not fire a coach in the middle of his contract? Is that unethical? I don't think so. Within Stevens contracts there are buyouts if he or the school terminates the deal I'm sure. So essentially Butler made provisions for the possibility of him leaving for another school.

I would also ask, was it wrong for Coach K to leave Army 30 years ago to go to Duke, where he now has the highest budget in the country? I don't think so. If Murry was gone tomorrow would it be unethical to go after currently under contract coaches or should they only try to hire a coach without a contract?

I have no idea what you make Mister, but are you honestly telling me if another employer in your same field that offers you a greater level of success, greater exposure, greater resources, greater recognition, and increases your salary by 500% that you wouldn't go? Maybe you wouldn't, but Stevens has put 10 years into Butler including quitting a six figure job to be a volunteer assistant. I think he has clearly demonstrated a commitment to Butler and leaving after this season would not diminish that in any way.

(04-06-2010 10:32 AM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  So what if money has everything to do with it? So what if he makes $350,000. Let's say Clemson comes knocking and offers him $1.5 million? Should he really turn that down? Like Pitt said, if you can't leave a recruit, you're stuck in a perpetual cycle and can never get out. I think a school like Butler realizes how special a run to the national championship was and I'm sure they understand with a basketball budget of $1.7 million they don't have the resources to pay him anywhere close to what he will be offered by bigger programs. I hope he takes a great new job if he has the opportunity and that he does well. Leaving doesn't mean he has no integrity. Can a school not fire a coach in the middle of his contract? Is that unethical? I don't think so. Within Stevens contracts there are buyouts if he or the school terminates the deal I'm sure. So essentially Butler made provisions for the possibility of him leaving for another school.

I would also ask, was it wrong for Coach K to leave Army 30 years ago to go to Duke, where he now has the highest budget in the country? I don't think so. If Murry was gone tomorrow would it be unethical to go after currently under contract coaches or should they only try to hire a coach without a contract?

I have no idea what you make Mister, but are you honestly telling me if another employer in your same field that offers you a greater level of success, greater exposure, greater resources, greater recognition, and increases your salary by 500% that you wouldn't go? Maybe you wouldn't, but Stevens has put 10 years into Butler including quitting a six figure job to be a volunteer assistant. I think he has clearly demonstrated a commitment to Butler and leaving after this season would not diminish that in any way.

Only in sports is advancement or job hopping looked down on.

You are giving me quite an education here. Loyalty is an outdated idea. Do it the Kiffin way...only what he wants is what matters. Your point about Krzyzewski and Army hit home.

I left of job of 15 years when I seemed stuck with little room for advancement. A week on the new job...the old job calls and offers me a 50% raise to come back. I wanted to go back but I just couldn't tell the new people I was gone after a week. These are tough issues... If I was Kiffin...I would have trouble living with myself.

Here is some information about Butler that supports Stevens moving up...and the post game comments from Krzyzewski about Butler's future.




Butler, however, puts the "old" in old school. With 4,200 students, it was the smallest school to play for the title since the field was expanded to 64 in 1985 and fourth-smallest overall. Forget state-of-the-art facilities. The Bulldogs play in an 82-year-old gym, the barn-like Hinkle Fieldhouse. Practice there, too - at 6:30 a.m., no less. There are no athletic dorms and, yes, those were some of the Butler players spotted in the classroom Monday morning.

The Bulldogs call their style "The Butler Way," and it has nothing to do with Xs and Os, backdoor cuts or zone defense. It's the next guy stepping up, everybody having each other's back.

"Butler will no longer be what it has been, which has been pretty darn good," Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said. "And everything that's good about Butler, which are so many things, will now have a chance to be seen in many areas, not just basketball."

Indeed, as the Bulldogs walked out of the arena to make the short drive back to campus, just 5.6 miles from Lucas Oil Stadium, the security guards in the hallways applauded them.

"Great job," some called out.

"Way to go," others yelled.

"I said yesterday that when you coach these guys, you can be at peace with whatever result you achieve from a won-loss standpoint because of what they gave - they gave everything we had," Stevens said. "There's certainly nothing to hang your head about.

"I told them in there, what they've done, what they did together, will last longer than one night," Stevens said, "regardless of the outcome."