positive for our program? What have we accomplished in twenty years in the league? Not much. A few division championships which led to nothing but some banners hanging in our arena.

Would the level of basketball been noticeably different? No. The TAAC games were exciting, and most fans could care less who we play. Mercer is probably as well regarded as Western Kentucky by most fans who don't follow basketball closely. Of course, it would be the Atlantic Sun now, but so be it.

So if Hamrick could have looked twenty years into the future and seen how pathetic the results of the move would be, would he have still made the same decision? I don't know about the financial considerations, but I think we could have recruited just as well to the Atlantic Sun as we have done to the Sun Belt. Unless we're in the SEC, Big 12, or Missouri Valley, I don't think one mid major conference that we could be involved with would be much superior to another as far as recruiting is concerned. I would have to believe his decision might have been a little different if he could have seen the future. Others will probably disagree. That's allright. Just my take on it.

g

(03-19-2010 11:52 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  positive for our program? What have we accomplished in twenty years in the league? Not much. A few division championships which led to nothing but some banners hanging in our arena.

Would the level of basketball been noticeably different? No. The TAAC games were exciting, and most fans could care less who we play. Mercer is probably as well regarded as Western Kentucky by most fans who don't follow basketball closely. Of course, it would be the Atlantic Sun now, but so be it.

So if Hamrick could have looked twenty years into the future and seen how pathetic the results of the move would be, would he have still made the same decision? I don't know about the financial considerations, but I think we could have recruited just as well to the Atlantic Sun as we have done to the Sun Belt. Unless we're in the SEC, Big 12, or Missouri Valley, I don't think one mid major conference that we could be involved with would be much superior to another as far as recruiting is concerned. I would have to believe his decision might have been a little different if he could have seen the future. Others will probably disagree. That's allright. Just my take on it.

No question I'd rather see better quality basketball. Every team has left the TAAC when they got good enough to do so.

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(03-19-2010 11:52 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  Would the level of basketball been noticeably different? No. The TAAC games were exciting, and most fans could care less who we play. Mercer is probably as well regarded as Western Kentucky by most fans who don't follow basketball closely. Of course, it would be the Atlantic Sun now, but so be it.

You're right, we saw some very exciting basketball games in the TAAC, and evidently the LR fans don't know or give a **** who we play. We don't seem to draw much better for name teams, than we do for any other games. Evidently the bottom line in LR for drawing any crowd, is winning, and winning big.

Basketball fans would rather see the better teams. Casual fans really don't care, JUST WIN BRO.

It is about relevance.

People don't give a crap about whether you win the conference they want to see teams that:
1. Can go to the NCAA tournament as something other than a 15-16 seed.
2. Can win tournament games.
3. Are contenders for at-large NCAA and NIT bids.
4. Can beat teams they have heard of.

When Nutt won the division with the third best Sun Belt record I took some flak for my "so what" attitude but I correctly read the market. The huggers were happy their hero won the division, the market saw third place with absolutely no chance at post-season without a tournament run and let forth a collective yawn.

If the goal is conference titles and auto bids for a 15-16 seed then UALR screwed up. The tools are in place for better, it just hasn't been accomplished by UALR or anyone else other than USA and WKU.

(03-19-2010 04:32 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  It is about relevance.

People don't give a crap about whether you win the conference they want to see teams that:
1. Can go to the NCAA tournament as something other than a 15-16 seed.
2. Can win tournament games.
3. Are contenders for at-large NCAA and NIT bids.
4. Can beat teams they have heard of.


If the goal is conference titles and auto bids for a 15-16 seed then UALR screwed up. The tools are in place for better, it just hasn't been accomplished by UALR or anyone else other than USA and WKU.

Personally I don't have a clue what the goals are. Our AD said a year or so ago that getting to post season was imperative. Then they extend the contract to five years. Not only did we not get to post season, we practically held up the entire league from near the cellar. Some of our fans(real fans who actually come to games)don't give a ****, all they want to be is just mediocre. They like Shields, so they don't want to fire him. I guess that maybe there are a half dozen fans on this board that have actually said we want a change in direction. Some of the others are saying so on the private board, but won't here because they don't want Shields or Peterson to see it. What's going to eventually happen is, UALR is slowly running off their fans who give a **** whether of not we have a vibrant and successful program. And I'm one of them.

(03-19-2010 05:07 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-19-2010 04:32 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  It is about relevance.

People don't give a crap about whether you win the conference they want to see teams that:
1. Can go to the NCAA tournament as something other than a 15-16 seed.
2. Can win tournament games.
3. Are contenders for at-large NCAA and NIT bids.
4. Can beat teams they have heard of.


If the goal is conference titles and auto bids for a 15-16 seed then UALR screwed up. The tools are in place for better, it just hasn't been accomplished by UALR or anyone else other than USA and WKU.

Personally I don't have a clue what the goals are. Our AD said a year or so ago that getting to post season was imperative. Then they extend the contract to five years. Not only did we not get to post season, we practically held up the entire league from near the cellar. Some of our fans(real fans who actually come to games)don't give a ****, all they want to be is just mediocre. They like Shields, so they don't want to fire him. I guess that maybe there are a half dozen fans on this board that have actually said we want a change in direction. Some of the others are saying so on the private board, but won't here because they don't want Shields or Peterson to see it. What's going to eventually happen is, UALR is slowly running off their fans who give a **** whether of not we have a vibrant and successful program. And I'm one of them.

People have tried to be fans of this program during the Shields era. Case in point, regardless of what you think of him: "Tipsy" as in the Tipsy club of the 2005-06 season. Profane antics aside, his short fan-ship was like a bacterial culture under a microscope. Tipsyclub.com came and went in one season due in part not only to a certain administrator giving him a hard time about the content of his website, but a total exasperation at the job Steve Shields was doing with the basketball program. He was no dummy and picked up right away on where things were headed and he bailed--in one season. The "culture" failed to grow in the "medium" Shields cooked up. A lot of people I talk to including my nephew, who played AAU ball for several years and went to the Wimp Sanderson basketball camp with Derek Fisher, have said the same thing. This current Men's program is a piss-poor offering and is out of touch with what works in this league.

(03-20-2010 12:34 AM)Robert C Wrote:  

(03-19-2010 05:07 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-19-2010 04:32 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  It is about relevance.

People don't give a crap about whether you win the conference they want to see teams that:
1. Can go to the NCAA tournament as something other than a 15-16 seed.
2. Can win tournament games.
3. Are contenders for at-large NCAA and NIT bids.
4. Can beat teams they have heard of.


If the goal is conference titles and auto bids for a 15-16 seed then UALR screwed up. The tools are in place for better, it just hasn't been accomplished by UALR or anyone else other than USA and WKU.

Personally I don't have a clue what the goals are. Our AD said a year or so ago that getting to post season was imperative. Then they extend the contract to five years. Not only did we not get to post season, we practically held up the entire league from near the cellar. Some of our fans(real fans who actually come to games)don't give a ****, all they want to be is just mediocre. They like Shields, so they don't want to fire him. I guess that maybe there are a half dozen fans on this board that have actually said we want a change in direction. Some of the others are saying so on the private board, but won't here because they don't want Shields or Peterson to see it. What's going to eventually happen is, UALR is slowly running off their fans who give a **** whether of not we have a vibrant and successful program. And I'm one of them.

,This current Men's program is a piss-poor offering and is out of touch with what works in this league.

This is the key. InsideUALR has mentioned this several times. Our coaches are obviously trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Outstanding guard play is what has always dominated in the Sun Belt.
There just aren't enough really good big men to go around, so the best teams in our leagues usually have schemes that revolve around mid size players. Yet we consistently try to work a system that depends on quality big men to succeed, and we have never been able to recruit to that system.

You see it. InsideUALR sees it. I see it. And I'm sure anyone with even the least amount of basketball knowledge can see it.
I think of golf, since it's the only sport I'm still able to play at my age.
If you take a guy like Craig Stadler, who's build like a bull, with forearms the size of my thighs, and try to teach him to swing a club like Bobby Jones, who had wonderful flexibility and timing, he couldn't break 90.

You fit the swing to the abilities and physical makeup of the individual. But our coaches still are tied to the "old" Eddie Sutton style of ball. Get the ball into your big man before you do anything else. Make three or four passes before taking a shot. Come on guys. We can't recruit the type of players who can play that style and never have been able to do so.
Until changes are made in the coaching philosophy, whether it's by our current coaches or a new regime, this program will remain where it is. Mired in mediocrity (or worse).

(03-20-2010 12:34 AM)Robert C Wrote:  People have tried to be fans of this program during the Shields era. Case in point, regardless of what you think of him: "Tipsy" as in the Tipsy club of the 2005-06 season. Profane antics aside, his short fan-ship was like a bacterial culture under a microscope. Tipsyclub.com came and went in one season due in part not only to a certain administrator giving him a hard time about the content of his website, but a total exasperation at the job Steve Shields was doing with the basketball program. He was no dummy and picked up right away on where things were headed and he bailed--in one season. The "culture" failed to grow in the "medium" Shields cooked up. A lot of people I talk to including my nephew, who played AAU ball for several years and went to the Wimp Sanderson basketball camp with Derek Fisher, have said the same thing. This current Men's program is a piss-poor offering and is out of touch with what works in this league.

That reminds me of a conversation with an acquaintance who is a hog fan, and after the Sun Belt final where our girls lost a heart breaker. He told me he had watched the last half and the overtime, and that he didn't think he'd ever seen a more exciting game. He even said that Foley's team without a doubt could beat the hog girls. He then went on to ask how the men's team had done this year, saying that he hadn't heard much about them. Nuff said.

My guess is that most hog fans don't have any idea how our team is doing. Not so when Newell was here. Most hog fans knew how our team was doing, and knew who the coach was. They hated him, but they knew who he was. Shields just doesn't create any excitement either on the court or in the community. He's a nice guy, and works hard at promoting the team, he just doesn't have the charisma that it takes to get folks interested, and then his teams are usually boring, and that turns the casual fan off. And whether we want to admit it or not, the casual fan makes up a large part of any fan base.

(03-20-2010 09:01 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-20-2010 12:34 AM)Robert C Wrote:  People have tried to be fans of this program during the Shields era. Case in point, regardless of what you think of him: "Tipsy" as in the Tipsy club of the 2005-06 season. Profane antics aside, his short fan-ship was like a bacterial culture under a microscope. Tipsyclub.com came and went in one season due in part not only to a certain administrator giving him a hard time about the content of his website, but a total exasperation at the job Steve Shields was doing with the basketball program. He was no dummy and picked up right away on where things were headed and he bailed--in one season. The "culture" failed to grow in the "medium" Shields cooked up. A lot of people I talk to including my nephew, who played AAU ball for several years and went to the Wimp Sanderson basketball camp with Derek Fisher, have said the same thing. This current Men's program is a piss-poor offering and is out of touch with what works in this league.

That reminds me of a conversation with an acquaintance who is a hog fan, and after the Sun Belt final where our girls lost a heart breaker. He told me he had watched the last half and the overtime, and that he didn't think he'd ever seen a more exciting game. He even said that Foley's team without a doubt could beat the hog girls. He then went on to ask how the men's team had done this year, saying that he hadn't heard much about them. Nuff said.

My guess is that most hog fans don't have any idea how our team is doing. Not so when Newell was here. Most hog fans knew how our team was doing, and knew who the coach was. They hated him, but they knew who he was. Shields just doesn't create any excitement either on the court or in the community. He's a nice guy, and works hard at promoting the team, he just doesn't have the charisma that it takes to get folks interested, and then his teams are usually boring, and that turns the casual fan off. And whether we want to admit it or not, the casual fan makes up a large part of any fan base.

I can guarantee you that if our men's team was in the Atlantic Sun or Southland and won 21 games in a row and got to the NCAA tournament, every person in the state would be talking about us. It wouldn't matter what league we're in. If we're going to continue to recruit the talent that we're recruiting, I think we could recruit that same talent to a league where we could possibly be a dominant team.

Am I suggesting moving to one of those lower leagues? No. What I'm saying is that we're recruiting that kind of talent right now. We need to start recruiting talent that is equal to the league in which we're playing. If this regime can't do it, which has pretty well been proven in the last seven years, then, assuming we want to continue to be able to finance a men's program, we'd better get someone in here who can create some fan excitement and bring in the talent to win in the SBC. We've already waited too long. Another year or two is going to cost us dearly in fan support.

(03-20-2010 09:31 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  Am I suggesting moving to one of those lower leagues? No. What I'm saying is that we're recruiting that kind of talent right now. We need to start recruiting talent that is equal to the league in which we're playing. If this regime can't do it, which has pretty well been proven in the last seven years, then, assuming we want to continue to be able to finance a men's program, we'd better get someone in here who can create some fan excitement and bring in the talent to win in the SBC. We've already waited too long. Another year or two is going to cost us dearly in fan support.

I'm sure it's not like they haven't been trying, you know that they'd recruit the guys who play at BCS schools if they could. But, whatever reasons, they just can't get the job done recruiting wise. They either can't evaluate talent, they don't have the recruiting contacts, or perhaps the recruits don't like his style of play. That would especially be true for guys who like to score, or like a more up-temp style of game.

(03-20-2010 09:42 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-20-2010 09:31 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  Am I suggesting moving to one of those lower leagues? No. What I'm saying is that we're recruiting that kind of talent right now. We need to start recruiting talent that is equal to the league in which we're playing. If this regime can't do it, which has pretty well been proven in the last seven years, then, assuming we want to continue to be able to finance a men's program, we'd better get someone in here who can create some fan excitement and bring in the talent to win in the SBC. We've already waited too long. Another year or two is going to cost us dearly in fan support.

I'm sure it's not like they haven't been trying, you know that they'd recruit the guys who play at BCS schools if they could. But, whatever reasons, they just can't get the job done recruiting wise. They either can't evaluate talent, they don't have the recruiting contacts, or perhaps the recruits don't like his style of play. That would especially be true for guys who like to score, or like a more up-temp style of game.

I know many of us, especially you, are tired of excuses. Let's either get the job done, or find someone who can get it done. We need to hire Larry the Cable guy to call Chris and say his famous line "Git er done".