(03-11-2010 01:10 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 04:23 PM)klake87 Wrote:  It time for the governmental unions to take the bullet. They need to realize we can't pay their salaries and benefits. Private sector workers know what we are talking about.

I agree we are paying teachers too much. We need to start paying our teachers minimum wage like many private sector jobs in this country. This way "I" don't have the government stealing "my" money. Lets just lower the wages on all the jobs so we can compete better with China. Lets not cut sports because males don't care about school and it is the only way to keep males off the streets. Why should "I" pay for all the other kids in this country? Me, me, me, me, me. Now, now, now, now. The Republican way. It is all about ME and NOW!

You should become a politician. You are good at spending other peoples money. I don't want to pay more taxes. I want our government to become more efficient. Paying governmental employees higher salaries and benefits than private workers when they don't produce anything is stupid. Also RobertN, you can not keep paying people more money than you have. Eventually, you run out of money.(see California and Illinois). You are a perfect example of why we need to change our educational system. The system failed you and did not prepare you well enough for the real world.

i think teachers' salaries should be and are justified as they have the most important job of all in molding the next generation of leaders. however, pensions are unsustainable and should change to the 401k program

Do any of you also feel like you living "Atlas Shrugged"?

(03-11-2010 01:13 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-11-2010 10:45 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Quinn also wants to raise the Illinois income tax to 4%. Vote for Democrats, get higher taxes.

RobertN Wrote:We can always vote for a Republican so corproations can have bigger tax breaks which will make the budget deficit even bigger.

How big will the deficit get when corporations leave Illinois for lower tax states? (Indiana)

See? That's the problem with Socialism. You eventually run out of other people's money.

As opposed to cutting taxes and making the deficit larger?

When my budget gets tight, I cut spending. Government should do the same.

The problem is that politicians are addicted to spending like alcoholics are addicted to booze. You know how that is, Robert. You used to live in Connecticut.

(03-11-2010 02:19 PM)niucob86 Wrote:  Do any of you also feel like you living "Atlas Shrugged"?

Yes!

And Wesley Mouch is in the White House.

(03-10-2010 03:39 PM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 02:54 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  Chicago is a disaster. I'm sorry. Look at the levels of taxation. How much is the entertainment tax on a theatre ticket now? The school system is a wreck. Property taxes are high. McCormick Place is losing how many shows a year due to union costs? The mayor's signature project, the airport expansion, is a pretty poor use of billions of dollars when you consider how little it truly improves efficiency. Red light cams are all over. The mayor is screaming for a casino to bring in more money.

by and large i dont mind the taxes in Chicago, because the services in this city are top notch, and I utilize them. examples:

# When an abandoned car sat outside a friends apartment for 5 weeks, he called the city and 2 days later it was gone.
# When a neighbor caught someone trying to steal his car, the police were there within 2 minutes and caught the perp.
# Fantastic library system
# When a street light burned out, another neighbor called the alderman's office. It was fixed by the end of the week.
# Quite a few streets around here have been resurfaced in the 2.5 years
# The city runs a rather tight ship with regard to rat & pest control and restaurant health inspections
# Snow removal is impeccable
# Though we may complain endlessly about it, public transportation is pretty adequate and many derelict stations have been recently refurbished
# Our parks and park district are the envy of many major cities.
# Calling for new trash cans and getting them in 2 days
# Free lead testing
# You can use 311 for any myriad of problems. I've called on numerous occasions to report graffiti and it is almost always blasted away in record time. There was another occasion when an absentee landlord wasnt shoveling snow. I called, and by the next day the walk was clear.

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. I truly feel Chicago's cost of living is a bargain considering what you get, especially when compared to NY/LA.

Where do the 600+ murders per year fit into your talking points?

(03-12-2010 12:07 AM)Kevin S Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 03:39 PM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 02:54 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  Chicago is a disaster. I'm sorry. Look at the levels of taxation. How much is the entertainment tax on a theatre ticket now? The school system is a wreck. Property taxes are high. McCormick Place is losing how many shows a year due to union costs? The mayor's signature project, the airport expansion, is a pretty poor use of billions of dollars when you consider how little it truly improves efficiency. Red light cams are all over. The mayor is screaming for a casino to bring in more money.

by and large i dont mind the taxes in Chicago, because the services in this city are top notch, and I utilize them. examples:

# When an abandoned car sat outside a friends apartment for 5 weeks, he called the city and 2 days later it was gone.
# When a neighbor caught someone trying to steal his car, the police were there within 2 minutes and caught the perp.
# Fantastic library system
# When a street light burned out, another neighbor called the alderman's office. It was fixed by the end of the week.
# Quite a few streets around here have been resurfaced in the 2.5 years
# The city runs a rather tight ship with regard to rat & pest control and restaurant health inspections
# Snow removal is impeccable
# Though we may complain endlessly about it, public transportation is pretty adequate and many derelict stations have been recently refurbished
# Our parks and park district are the envy of many major cities.
# Calling for new trash cans and getting them in 2 days
# Free lead testing
# You can use 311 for any myriad of problems. I've called on numerous occasions to report graffiti and it is almost always blasted away in record time. There was another occasion when an absentee landlord wasnt shoveling snow. I called, and by the next day the walk was clear.

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. I truly feel Chicago's cost of living is a bargain considering what you get, especially when compared to NY/LA.

Where do the 600+ murders per year fit into your talking points?

chicago doesn't even fit into the top-10 crime rates of cities of 500k populations or more

nice try though

http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2009/Ran...lation.pdf

(03-11-2010 01:16 PM)klake87 Wrote:  

(03-11-2010 01:10 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 04:23 PM)klake87 Wrote:  It time for the governmental unions to take the bullet. They need to realize we can't pay their salaries and benefits. Private sector workers know what we are talking about.

I agree we are paying teachers too much. We need to start paying our teachers minimum wage like many private sector jobs in this country. This way "I" don't have the government stealing "my" money. Lets just lower the wages on all the jobs so we can compete better with China. Lets not cut sports because males don't care about school and it is the only way to keep males off the streets. Why should "I" pay for all the other kids in this country? Me, me, me, me, me. Now, now, now, now. The Republican way. It is all about ME and NOW!

You should become a politician. You are good at spending other peoples money. I don't want to pay more taxes. I want our government to become more efficient. Paying governmental employees higher salaries and benefits than private workers when they don't produce anything is stupid. Also RobertN, you can not keep paying people more money than you have. Eventually, you run out of money.(see California and Illinois). You are a perfect example of why we need to change our educational system. The system failed you and did not prepare you well enough for the real world.

I can certainly attest to this! I used to be a governmental employee. I made a big salary. However, I tried my best to earn that salary by putting in longer hours, working weekends, and trying inovative ways to improve government and accountability. I worked with people making as much or more than me who shuffled along under the radar, spending their 8:30 - 4:30 days on breaks and doing shopping. That's when they weren't taking days off and using every one of the 12 sick days per year we got. I tried to be a model and set an example of proper conduct in the workplace, how to act like a professional, and carry out our fiduciary responsibilities to the taxpayers. For my efforts, I was asked to leave, while the bumblers are still there pushing buttons on their computers to get pretty pictures on the screen. Some are now retired at age 55 and still bringing in tons of money on pension. Some of my co-workers were truly mentally and/or socially disabled and would not be able to find work in the private sector. This is not an exaggeration. Some of my former highly-paid co-workers could easily be certified as mentally disabled. Yet I, a certified and recognized professional in my field, was asked to leave. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I have no political connections. What you hear about government employees is, for the most part, very true.

(03-12-2010 07:29 AM)huskiealum03 Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 12:07 AM)Kevin S Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 03:39 PM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 02:54 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  Chicago is a disaster. I'm sorry. Look at the levels of taxation. How much is the entertainment tax on a theatre ticket now? The school system is a wreck. Property taxes are high. McCormick Place is losing how many shows a year due to union costs? The mayor's signature project, the airport expansion, is a pretty poor use of billions of dollars when you consider how little it truly improves efficiency. Red light cams are all over. The mayor is screaming for a casino to bring in more money.

by and large i dont mind the taxes in Chicago, because the services in this city are top notch, and I utilize them. examples:

# When an abandoned car sat outside a friends apartment for 5 weeks, he called the city and 2 days later it was gone.
# When a neighbor caught someone trying to steal his car, the police were there within 2 minutes and caught the perp.
# Fantastic library system
# When a street light burned out, another neighbor called the alderman's office. It was fixed by the end of the week.
# Quite a few streets around here have been resurfaced in the 2.5 years
# The city runs a rather tight ship with regard to rat & pest control and restaurant health inspections
# Snow removal is impeccable
# Though we may complain endlessly about it, public transportation is pretty adequate and many derelict stations have been recently refurbished
# Our parks and park district are the envy of many major cities.
# Calling for new trash cans and getting them in 2 days
# Free lead testing
# You can use 311 for any myriad of problems. I've called on numerous occasions to report graffiti and it is almost always blasted away in record time. There was another occasion when an absentee landlord wasnt shoveling snow. I called, and by the next day the walk was clear.

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. I truly feel Chicago's cost of living is a bargain considering what you get, especially when compared to NY/LA.

Where do the 600+ murders per year fit into your talking points?

chicago doesn't even fit into the top-10 crime rates of cities of 500k populations or more

nice try though

http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2009/Ran...lation.pdf

Well that's setting your standards prety low.

Welcome to Chicago! We have fudged the figures and managed to find ten cities with higher crime.

(03-12-2010 09:07 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 07:29 AM)huskiealum03 Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 12:07 AM)Kevin S Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 03:39 PM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 02:54 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  Chicago is a disaster. I'm sorry. Look at the levels of taxation. How much is the entertainment tax on a theatre ticket now? The school system is a wreck. Property taxes are high. McCormick Place is losing how many shows a year due to union costs? The mayor's signature project, the airport expansion, is a pretty poor use of billions of dollars when you consider how little it truly improves efficiency. Red light cams are all over. The mayor is screaming for a casino to bring in more money.

by and large i dont mind the taxes in Chicago, because the services in this city are top notch, and I utilize them. examples:

# When an abandoned car sat outside a friends apartment for 5 weeks, he called the city and 2 days later it was gone.
# When a neighbor caught someone trying to steal his car, the police were there within 2 minutes and caught the perp.
# Fantastic library system
# When a street light burned out, another neighbor called the alderman's office. It was fixed by the end of the week.
# Quite a few streets around here have been resurfaced in the 2.5 years
# The city runs a rather tight ship with regard to rat & pest control and restaurant health inspections
# Snow removal is impeccable
# Though we may complain endlessly about it, public transportation is pretty adequate and many derelict stations have been recently refurbished
# Our parks and park district are the envy of many major cities.
# Calling for new trash cans and getting them in 2 days
# Free lead testing
# You can use 311 for any myriad of problems. I've called on numerous occasions to report graffiti and it is almost always blasted away in record time. There was another occasion when an absentee landlord wasnt shoveling snow. I called, and by the next day the walk was clear.

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. I truly feel Chicago's cost of living is a bargain considering what you get, especially when compared to NY/LA.

Where do the 600+ murders per year fit into your talking points?

chicago doesn't even fit into the top-10 crime rates of cities of 500k populations or more

nice try though

http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2009/Ran...lation.pdf

Well that's setting your standards prety low.

Welcome to Chicago! We have fudged the figures and managed to find ten cities with higher crime.

600 murders in a city of 3 million is a tiny percentage. when you get a population of that size, the murder count will always look high.

Getting back to the topic. So basically, Quinn's solution is to Borrow 5 billion to pay last years bills and then not pay 6 billion of vendor invoices this year. Knowing that I am going to perform services or deliver goods but not get paid makes me want to do business with our state. Basically, we are borrowing 11 billion dollars. Next year we will owe the interest on this debt. This will be money that will generate zero benefits to the state.

(03-12-2010 12:07 AM)Kevin S Wrote:  Where do the 600+ murders per year fit into your talking points?

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 931
1994: 929
1995: 827
1996: 789
1997: 759
1998: 704
1999: 641
2000: 628
2001: 666
2002: 647
2003: 598
2004: 448
2005: 449
2006: 467
2007: 442
2008: 510

Perfect? No. Steadily moving in a positive direction and vastly improved from just 20 years ago? Undoubtedly.

And if you think crime is something isolated to the "big city", perhaps you'll want to tell that to the three innocent kids who were shot up in Schaumburg this past week.

(03-12-2010 10:12 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 12:07 AM)Kevin S Wrote:  Where do the 600+ murders per year fit into your talking points?

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 931
1994: 929
1995: 827
1996: 789
1997: 759
1998: 704
1999: 641
2000: 628
2001: 666
2002: 647
2003: 598
2004: 448
2005: 449
2006: 467
2007: 442
2008: 510

Perfect? No. Steadily moving in a positive direction and vastly improved from just 20 years ago? Undoubtedly.

And if you think crime is something isolated to the "big city", perhaps you'll want to tell that to the three innocent kids who were shot up in Schaumburg this past week.

I doubt it. You are fudging the figures. using your own data,

2004: 448
2005: 449
2006: 467
2007: 442
2008: 510
2009: 600+

That is an upward trend.

That is how the global warming alarmists present their data.

(03-12-2010 10:43 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 10:12 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 12:07 AM)Kevin S Wrote:  Where do the 600+ murders per year fit into your talking points?

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 931
1994: 929
1995: 827
1996: 789
1997: 759
1998: 704
1999: 641
2000: 628
2001: 666
2002: 647
2003: 598
2004: 448
2005: 449
2006: 467
2007: 442
2008: 510

Perfect? No. Steadily moving in a positive direction and vastly improved from just 20 years ago? Undoubtedly.

And if you think crime is something isolated to the "big city", perhaps you'll want to tell that to the three innocent kids who were shot up in Schaumburg this past week.

I doubt it. You are fudging the figures. using your own data,

2004: 448
2005: 449
2006: 467
2007: 442
2008: 510
2009: 600+

That is an upward trend.

That is how the global warming alarmists present their data.

reading comprehension FTL...he said it was an improvement over 20 years.
its useless discussing with you as you will always look for a reason to argue. i hope you don't live in the chicago metropolitan area, because it must just make your life miserable if you do.

(03-12-2010 10:43 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  I doubt it. You are fudging the figures. using your own data,

My own data? I didnt realize I compiled the UCR report for the FBI.

And you're accusing me of making up numbers when you're completely fabricating out of thin air that the city had "600+ murders" in '09? 2009 was 453. Have a nice day.

(03-12-2010 11:08 AM)huskiealum03 Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 10:43 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 10:12 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 12:07 AM)Kevin S Wrote:  Where do the 600+ murders per year fit into your talking points?

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 931
1994: 929
1995: 827
1996: 789
1997: 759
1998: 704
1999: 641
2000: 628
2001: 666
2002: 647
2003: 598
2004: 448
2005: 449
2006: 467
2007: 442
2008: 510

Perfect? No. Steadily moving in a positive direction and vastly improved from just 20 years ago? Undoubtedly.

And if you think crime is something isolated to the "big city", perhaps you'll want to tell that to the three innocent kids who were shot up in Schaumburg this past week.

I doubt it. You are fudging the figures. using your own data,

2004: 448
2005: 449
2006: 467
2007: 442
2008: 510
2009: 600+

That is an upward trend.

That is how the global warming alarmists present their data.

reading comprehension FTL...he said it was an improvement over 20 years.
its useless discussing with you as you will always look for a reason to argue. i hope you don't live in the chicago metropolitan area, because it must just make your life miserable if you do.

You see, this is why Mark Twain included statistics among the three types of lies. Choosing the sampling period can make the stats say what you want them to.

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out

-Talking Heads

I am thankful that I do not live in Chicago, because the taxes are so high. I also enjoy being able to find a parking space.

You want to hear something positive and hopeful about Chicago? After the Daley gun ban gets overturned, the violent crime rate will go down. It's already happening in DC.

And the Blackhawks are doing well.

(03-12-2010 11:56 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  You see, this is why Mark Twain included statistics among the three types of lies.

So what would that make the lie you told? You know, the lie that actually was a lie which you thought no one would notice.

(03-12-2010 12:03 PM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 11:56 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  You see, this is why Mark Twain included statistics among the three types of lies.

So what would that make the lie you told? You know, the lie that actually was a lie which you thought no one would notice.

I was using your own stastics.

(03-12-2010 12:18 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 12:03 PM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 11:56 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  You see, this is why Mark Twain included statistics among the three types of lies.

So what would that make the lie you told? You know, the lie that actually was a lie which you thought no one would notice.

I was using your own stastics.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. I never cited 2009 until I was compelled to correct you. Those pesky facts....

(03-12-2010 07:29 AM)huskiealum03 Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 12:07 AM)Kevin S Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 03:39 PM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(03-10-2010 02:54 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  Chicago is a disaster. I'm sorry. Look at the levels of taxation. How much is the entertainment tax on a theatre ticket now? The school system is a wreck. Property taxes are high. McCormick Place is losing how many shows a year due to union costs? The mayor's signature project, the airport expansion, is a pretty poor use of billions of dollars when you consider how little it truly improves efficiency. Red light cams are all over. The mayor is screaming for a casino to bring in more money.

by and large i dont mind the taxes in Chicago, because the services in this city are top notch, and I utilize them. examples:

# When an abandoned car sat outside a friends apartment for 5 weeks, he called the city and 2 days later it was gone.
# When a neighbor caught someone trying to steal his car, the police were there within 2 minutes and caught the perp.
# Fantastic library system
# When a street light burned out, another neighbor called the alderman's office. It was fixed by the end of the week.
# Quite a few streets around here have been resurfaced in the 2.5 years
# The city runs a rather tight ship with regard to rat & pest control and restaurant health inspections
# Snow removal is impeccable
# Though we may complain endlessly about it, public transportation is pretty adequate and many derelict stations have been recently refurbished
# Our parks and park district are the envy of many major cities.
# Calling for new trash cans and getting them in 2 days
# Free lead testing
# You can use 311 for any myriad of problems. I've called on numerous occasions to report graffiti and it is almost always blasted away in record time. There was another occasion when an absentee landlord wasnt shoveling snow. I called, and by the next day the walk was clear.

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. I truly feel Chicago's cost of living is a bargain considering what you get, especially when compared to NY/LA.

Where do the 600+ murders per year fit into your talking points?

chicago doesn't even fit into the top-10 crime rates of cities of 500k populations or more

nice try though

http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2009/Ran...lation.pdf

You quoted crime rate statistics, not the murder rate. Get your facts correct!

I really dont see what your problem is. You dont live here and apparently have no desire to. I guess its fun just to pass the time by looking down at neighborhoods you have no stake in, huh?