(02-11-2010 05:56 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  TCU is the biggest, highest profile name out there among potential BE additions. That is why I am in favor of adding them, as opposed to some of the names thrown around by certain posters. Who cares that they are so far from the conferences core. So is USF...big deal.

Agreed. If the Big Ten is looking at Texas, why the heck wouldn't the Big East at least examine TCU? I posted a link to the athletic department revenue for all of the football schools in the country in 2007-08 in one of the Expansion/Split threads. TCU, in a "normal" season where it didn't make a BCS bowl like this year, had the most revenue of ANY non-BCS school in the country and it wasn't even close - they beat the next non-BCS school on the list (BYU) by about 20%. Its revenue was actually more than a number of BCS schools, including in-state Big XII competitor Texas Tech and a few Big East schools. Their revenue isn't materially different than schools like Syracuse and Miami.

Bottom line: TCU is a BCS-ready school as of TODAY. While adding a school like TCU might not be worth splitting the current conference up for, that's at least a quality option for the BE both competitively and financially. If any BE school leaves or the conference decides to split, TCU should be on speed-dial in the BE's offices.

(02-12-2010 10:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 05:56 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  TCU is the biggest, highest profile name out there among potential BE additions. That is why I am in favor of adding them, as opposed to some of the names thrown around by certain posters. Who cares that they are so far from the conferences core. So is USF...big deal.

Agreed. If the Big Ten is looking at Texas, why the heck wouldn't the Big East at least examine TCU? I posted a link to the athletic department revenue for all of the football schools in the country in 2007-08 in one of the Expansion/Split threads. TCU, in a "normal" season where it didn't make a BCS bowl like this year, had the most revenue of ANY non-BCS school in the country and it wasn't even close - they beat the next non-BCS school on the list (BYU) by about 20%. Its revenue was actually more than a number of BCS schools, including in-state Big XII competitor Texas Tech and a few Big East schools. Their revenue isn't materially different than schools like Syracuse and Miami.

Bottom line: TCU is a BCS-ready school as of TODAY. While adding a school like TCU might not be worth splitting the current conference up for, that's at least a quality option for the BE both competitively and financially. If any BE school leaves or the conference decides to split, TCU should be on speed-dial in the BE's offices.

What bout a Big East/Big XII merger if the Big XII gets gutted?

Wasn't the reason why TCU wanted out of C-USA was because their fan base and their administration could not identify with 'eastern' schools in the old C-USA? TCU has no connection to the Big East outside of playing a few former C-USA teams. TCU to the Big East does not make sense.

(02-12-2010 10:56 AM)MiamiBull2 Wrote:  Wasn't the reason why TCU wanted out of C-USA was because their fan base and their administration could not identify with 'eastern' schools in the old C-USA? TCU has no connection to the Big East outside of playing a few former C-USA teams. TCU to the Big East does not make sense.

Absolutely not. TCU actually is as geographically isolated in the Mountain West as it would be in the Big East. They moved to the MWC because it had better competition and the prospect of increased revenue. I don't think they had any real pre-existing rivalries with any of the MWC schools (save for the handful of years that they were in the super-sized WAC).

Regardless, EVERY non-BCS school will take a BCS invite if presented with the opportunity. If the BE invited Utah, the Utes would be on the next flight. So, people need to look at this situation as the BE having its pick of virtually any non-BCS school in the country (as long as the Pac-10 or maybe Big XII doesn't get to them first) instead of constraining themselves to same handful of "geographically sensible) options that are talked about ad nauseum. C-USA already stretches from Texas to West Virginia. The Big Ten wants Texas. BC is in the ACC. Louisiana Tech is in the WAC. Midwestern and Southern teams are already in the Big East. If I were running the BE, I definitely wouldn't be passing over quality programs just because of geography.

(02-11-2010 07:44 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 12:33 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  TCU to the BE if the Pac10 takes Utah and/or BYU. Once Utah and BYU go, this will nearly cripple the MWC. TCU will be looking for a home. Pick up TCU as the ninth member. For those that insist that the BE absolutely must go to 12, I will play along. Add TCU, call up 'Nova, add ECU, and either UCF or Memphis. There you go. (Disclaimer, I am not in favor of this plan, I want to stop at 9).

I don't think TCU works without a travel partner in Houston. However, if you added TCU, Houston, Memphis and UCF you would have airport hubs for some major carriers.

Rutgers -Continental, Fed EX
Cincy- Delta
Louisville -UPS
Memphis- Delta/Northwest, Fed Ex
Tampa -Continental, AirTran, Southwest
Pittsburgh-US Airways
Orlando-AirTran
Hartford- UPS
Dallas/FW- American Airlines, American Eagle, UPS
Houston-Continental

I write all this to show that travel expenses don't have to go up because of distance. All of these airports are easier to travel to than anything in the SEC (Fayetteville to Starkville? Gainesville to Baton Rouge?) or the Big 10 (Madison to State College? East Lansing to Iowa City?)

If you wanna get technical UPS has a hub of sorts at Newark as well. And you really have to include LaGuardia and JFK which means we're a Delta hub city as well. The joint hub of LGA & JFK for Delta is becoming huge. Newark is closest and most convenient of course but those airports are very real and not that far out of the way. Its exceptionally easy to get to NY/NJ from Cincy as you've got tons of Delta flights to all 3 airports. Memphis as well thanks to the Delta - Northwest merger.

(02-11-2010 06:03 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  TCU is not without worts Gray, but they are light years ahead of Memphis where it counts most at this point, on the gridiron. I don't think the BE is in dire straights for a good basketball program.

No, certainly not in dire straights, but adding an attractive basketball program does matter (especially if there is a split), same as built-in rivalries, closer location, a new bowl game and corporate sponsorship of championship tournaments. Memphis only played the mighty Horned Frogs once, in 2002, when they managed to win on their home field by 7 points. Choosing a conference member on nothing more than football success over the last 7 or 8 years is rather dumb in my opinion. But who knows? The BE once turned down Penn State.

(02-11-2010 01:15 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  Interesting that some of you are so enamored with a school which is 500 miles on the other side of the Mississippi, has no basketball program and cannot fill a 46,000 seat stadium when ranked in the Top 10. There are reasons why even Baylor was chosen over TCU for Big 12 membership.

TCU average attendance was 38,187, oversold Utah game and nearly sold out the finale with UNLV. Attendance is not bad considering there is zero road crowds due to distance--how much of Baylor's attendance is opponent crowds?

That having been said, TCU is not a first-tier B12 candidate. Arkansas would be a better choice.

(02-12-2010 02:14 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 01:15 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  Interesting that some of you are so enamored with a school which is 500 miles on the other side of the Mississippi, has no basketball program and cannot fill a 46,000 seat stadium when ranked in the Top 10. There are reasons why even Baylor was chosen over TCU for Big 12 membership.

TCU average attendance was 38,187, oversold Utah game and nearly sold out the finale with UNLV. Attendance is not bad considering there is zero road crowds due to distance--how much of Baylor's attendance is opponent crowds?

That having been said, TCU is not a first-tier B12 candidate. Arkansas would be a better choice.

Yea Arkansas isn't leaving the SEC and its $$$ for an unstable Big XII that is sans Texas and Colorado and maybe more. TCU, Houston, Utah (if not already nabbed by the Pac 10 as anticipated) BYU and Boise are the real candidates for the Big XII.

Now, mind you for the most part those are better options than the Big East has at present. UCF, Memphis, ECU and Temple fans please don't think I'm putting your athletics programs down because I'm not. Temple is the only expansion candidate we have that really makes the cut at all. Football is clearly improving, Basketball is back to where it always is, the school is making improvements across the boards, Philly market, and natural/historical rival for WVU, Pitt, Cincy, Rutgers and Syracuse & natural rival for UConn.

(02-12-2010 02:08 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 06:03 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  TCU is not without worts Gray, but they are light years ahead of Memphis where it counts most at this point, on the gridiron. I don't think the BE is in dire straights for a good basketball program.

No, certainly not in dire straights, but adding an attractive basketball program does matter (especially if there is a split), same as built-in rivalries, closer location, a new bowl game and corporate sponsorship of championship tournaments. Memphis only played the mighty Horned Frogs once, in 2002, when they managed to win on their home field by 7 points. Choosing a conference member on nothing more than football success over the last 7 or 8 years is rather dumb in my opinion. But who knows? The BE once turned down Penn State.

Not nearly as dumb as choosing a member based on bb success the last 4 or 5 years.

(02-12-2010 02:08 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 06:03 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  TCU is not without worts Gray, but they are light years ahead of Memphis where it counts most at this point, on the gridiron. I don't think the BE is in dire straights for a good basketball program.

No, certainly not in dire straights, but adding an attractive basketball program does matter (especially if there is a split), same as built-in rivalries, closer location, a new bowl game and corporate sponsorship of championship tournaments. Memphis only played the mighty Horned Frogs once, in 2002, when they managed to win on their home field by 7 points. Choosing a conference member on nothing more than football success over the last 7 or 8 years is rather dumb in my opinion. But who knows? The BE once turned down Penn State.

Look, I actually like Memphis. However, you refer to the various "parasites" of the Catholic schools constantly, many of whom have tremendous basketball programs, yet when it comes to talking about Memphis, you point out having an "attractive basketball program" while directly putting down another school that has had legitimate national success in football (which is what the "parasites" supposedly ignore). That doesn't make any sense to me.

(02-12-2010 10:54 AM)animus Wrote:  

(02-12-2010 10:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 05:56 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  TCU is the biggest, highest profile name out there among potential BE additions. That is why I am in favor of adding them, as opposed to some of the names thrown around by certain posters. Who cares that they are so far from the conferences core. So is USF...big deal.

Agreed. If the Big Ten is looking at Texas, why the heck wouldn't the Big East at least examine TCU? I posted a link to the athletic department revenue for all of the football schools in the country in 2007-08 in one of the Expansion/Split threads. TCU, in a "normal" season where it didn't make a BCS bowl like this year, had the most revenue of ANY non-BCS school in the country and it wasn't even close - they beat the next non-BCS school on the list (BYU) by about 20%. Its revenue was actually more than a number of BCS schools, including in-state Big XII competitor Texas Tech and a few Big East schools. Their revenue isn't materially different than schools like Syracuse and Miami.

Bottom line: TCU is a BCS-ready school as of TODAY. While adding a school like TCU might not be worth splitting the current conference up for, that's at least a quality option for the BE both competitively and financially. If any BE school leaves or the conference decides to split, TCU should be on speed-dial in the BE's offices.

What bout a Big East/Big XII merger if the Big XII gets gutted?

Oh Please expound on what that would look like.......

(02-12-2010 02:56 PM)TyBull Wrote:  

(02-12-2010 10:54 AM)animus Wrote:  

(02-12-2010 10:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 05:56 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  TCU is the biggest, highest profile name out there among potential BE additions. That is why I am in favor of adding them, as opposed to some of the names thrown around by certain posters. Who cares that they are so far from the conferences core. So is USF...big deal.

Agreed. If the Big Ten is looking at Texas, why the heck wouldn't the Big East at least examine TCU? I posted a link to the athletic department revenue for all of the football schools in the country in 2007-08 in one of the Expansion/Split threads. TCU, in a "normal" season where it didn't make a BCS bowl like this year, had the most revenue of ANY non-BCS school in the country and it wasn't even close - they beat the next non-BCS school on the list (BYU) by about 20%. Its revenue was actually more than a number of BCS schools, including in-state Big XII competitor Texas Tech and a few Big East schools. Their revenue isn't materially different than schools like Syracuse and Miami.

Bottom line: TCU is a BCS-ready school as of TODAY. While adding a school like TCU might not be worth splitting the current conference up for, that's at least a quality option for the BE both competitively and financially. If any BE school leaves or the conference decides to split, TCU should be on speed-dial in the BE's offices.

What bout a Big East/Big XII merger if the Big XII gets gutted?

Oh Please expound on what that would look like.......

Basically assume they've lost Texas and Colorado. Would Nebraska, Oklahoma, Mizzou, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M and Texas Tech want to join up with the Big East football schools instead to form what would actually be a very solid conference top to bottom in all sports? Also of course it would involve starting a network with or without the Pac 10. I even think its more money than they would make in a Texas & Colorado-less Big XII taking say BYU and TCU to replace the two schools. That's what it would look like. Guess what other than South Florida its contiguous. CT to NY to NY & PA to OH & WV to KY to MO to NE & OK to TX
It could seriously work think about the National footprint and interest a conference like that would hold. Imagine a 12-0 West Virginia facing off against a 12-0 Oklahoma for the Conference Championship Game. Sounds far fetched and science fiction-esque but it also sounds like people would tune in in droves no? What about a 12-0 Nebraska against a 12-0 Pitt? Or a 12-0 Rutgers against a 12-0 A&M? These all sounds appealing to me.

That's the idea more or less anyway. Probably wouldn't happen in a million years but I would hope that the FB schools do their homework and make the pitch in the event CU and UT leave their Big XII brethren behind. And since the Big XII owns the rights to the name Big XIV might as well use that as the name.

(02-12-2010 04:03 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(02-12-2010 02:56 PM)TyBull Wrote:  

(02-12-2010 10:54 AM)animus Wrote:  

(02-12-2010 10:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 05:56 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  TCU is the biggest, highest profile name out there among potential BE additions. That is why I am in favor of adding them, as opposed to some of the names thrown around by certain posters. Who cares that they are so far from the conferences core. So is USF...big deal.

Agreed. If the Big Ten is looking at Texas, why the heck wouldn't the Big East at least examine TCU? I posted a link to the athletic department revenue for all of the football schools in the country in 2007-08 in one of the Expansion/Split threads. TCU, in a "normal" season where it didn't make a BCS bowl like this year, had the most revenue of ANY non-BCS school in the country and it wasn't even close - they beat the next non-BCS school on the list (BYU) by about 20%. Its revenue was actually more than a number of BCS schools, including in-state Big XII competitor Texas Tech and a few Big East schools. Their revenue isn't materially different than schools like Syracuse and Miami.

Bottom line: TCU is a BCS-ready school as of TODAY. While adding a school like TCU might not be worth splitting the current conference up for, that's at least a quality option for the BE both competitively and financially. If any BE school leaves or the conference decides to split, TCU should be on speed-dial in the BE's offices.

What bout a Big East/Big XII merger if the Big XII gets gutted?

Oh Please expound on what that would look like.......

Basically assume they've lost Texas and Colorado. Would Nebraska, Oklahoma, Mizzou, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M and Texas Tech want to join up with the Big East football schools instead to form what would actually be a very solid conference top to bottom in all sports? Also of course it would involve starting a network with or without the Pac 10. I even think its more money than they would make in a Texas & Colorado-less Big XII taking say BYU and TCU to replace the two schools. That's what it would look like. Guess what other than South Florida its contiguous. CT to NY to NY & PA to OH & WV to KY to MO to NE & OK to TX
It could seriously work think about the National footprint and interest a conference like that would hold. Imagine a 12-0 West Virginia facing off against a 12-0 Oklahoma for the Conference Championship Game. Sounds far fetched and science fiction-esque but it also sounds like people would tune in in droves no? What about a 12-0 Nebraska against a 12-0 Pitt? Or a 12-0 Rutgers against a 12-0 A&M? These all sounds appealing to me.

That's the idea more or less anyway. Probably wouldn't happen in a million years but I would hope that the FB schools do their homework and make the pitch in the event CU and UT leave their Big XII brethren behind. And since the Big XII owns the rights to the name Big XIV might as well use that as the name.

If you're splitting the BE you might as well add Kansas and Kansas St for the basketball. Championship game in the RCA Dome?

You can forget a Big 12/Big East merger. But if the Big 12 gets gutted, I can see some of the schools joining the Big East, especially strong basketball schools with solid football programs like Kansas, who would find it hard to get an invite to another BCS conference. If this Big Ten move happens, and they take 3 Big 12 schools, the Big East could be in the driver's seat, with four spots open, and a ton of schools fighting for it. Heck, adding a school like Kansas and Oklahoma (if they don't get scooped up by another conference), would make it easier to attract Maryland and Boston to the Big East. This sounds crazy, but could be coming to fruition.

Right. Because schools like Kansas are just dying to join a 18 or 20 team hybrid monstrosity? Please.

And if you're going to say this propels the football side to split? Think again. Because you've still got Syracuse which doesn't want to leave their dear dear catholic schools behind. Big East has shown they have no appetite for upsetting the carefully constructed balance of power between football and basketball.

So, you've got it backwards. If the Big 12 has openings, even a large number of openings, they will fill them rather than fold. And frankly given the opportunity to join an all-sports conference with some combination of Big 12 schools versus staying in a 16 team hybrid whorehouse, it isn't hard to imagine Louisville and Cincinnati jumping ship. And I could see Pitt and WVU doing the same.

(02-13-2010 02:36 PM)Bearcat 1984 Wrote:  Right. Because schools like Kansas are just dying to join a 18 or 20 team hybrid monstrosity? Please.

And if you're going to say this propels the football side to split? Think again. Because you've still got Syracuse which doesn't want to leave their dear dear catholic schools behind. Big East has shown they have no appetite for upsetting the carefully constructed balance of power between football and basketball.

This statement goes to show that some folks dont know anything about Syracuse. You must have forgotten that Syracuse was once willing to leave the dear, dear catholic schools to go to the Acc. Or that the former SU AD saying after the 3 BE schools left for the acc, that we should split and if the BE did not split, that he would retire. And he did. The current president of SU as well as the current ad would leave the catholic schools behind in a NY minute if they had a chance to be in the Big 10, or any other bcs conference that provides more stability than the current BE, even if its a revamped BE. Any other BE institution would too. But neither SU, nor Pitt, nor Uconn, WV, Rutgers are going to give up the current BE to split off from the caholics and invite a bunch of Cusa schools into an 12 team all sports conference, which would provide no more stability or security.

No disrespect to the Cusa programs who are mentioned here often, but non of the current BE schools are willing to give up their association with the catholics unless they are sure they can make more money in the long run. Obviously, they dont think they can, or they would have already split. You will probably see a Temple or an ECU invited before you ever see the fb schools leave the bb schools. Unless of course the Big 10 expansion changes the landscape.

I think the Pac10 will go after Texas and Texas A&M. Texas originally tried to get into the PAC10 after the collapse of the Southwest conference but got rejected. It would be a perfect move into Texas which along with California give the conference 2 of the top 3 talent producing states for football.